Need a Little Insight Here

[QuiltAngel]

Well, I have done what I try not to do and need some help here. I am in a discussion elsewhere regarding use of weapons. There is a guy on there who thinks that we as Christians should not use or have any weapon at all as he says it is not consistent with the New Testament.

I know we can get into the two Kingdoms here, but when most others do not recognize these, how does one go about discussing such an issue? Maybe I am way off in thinking that we would be allowed to possess such an item? I personally do not, but do not think that others can't.

I am going to be out most of the rest of the day, so look forward to anything you have for me when I return.

[BigNorsk]

Christians should not have any weapon at all? Does he suggest cutting off ones hands and feet and pulling out one's teeth? Maybe severing the vocal chords and such. Just because one does not carry a knife or gun does not mean one is without a weapon. Goodness if you want to take your knife and meet me out in a field I'll chose my pickup truck everytime.

We all have weapons, we always will have weapons. It is only in his mind that he makes some things a weapon and other things are not.

I would approach if from the whole idea is rediculous because it is impossible to be without weapons and he's just makng a distinction in his mind that isn't really true.

Marv

[BigNorsk]

Some historic weapons.

Dogs,
horses,
rope,
flamable liquids,
rocks,
sticks,
bare hands,
teeth,
other people,
automobiles,
airplanes,
guns,
knives,
ballpoint pens,
water,
the written or spoken word,
electricity,
balls,
and on and on.

Ask him if he has any of those things and if so why doesn't he live what he teaches?

Marv

[QuiltAngel]

True, anything can be used as a weapon.

How would one address the idea that Jesus is a pacifist?

Well, I am outta here for the rest of the day, I really am.

[BigNorsk]

Jesus as a pacifist works if you just take a slice of the Bible. If you just take a few years while our incarnate Lord came to Earth to lay down his life. A time that he was not here to wage war with a sword.

But such wars were a part of the past and are a part of the future. Everything in it's time.

Ecc 3:1-8 ESV
(1) For everything there is a season, and a time for every matter under heaven:
(2) a time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up what is planted;
(3) a time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;
(4) a time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;
(5) a time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;
(6) a time to seek, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;
(7) a time to tear, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;
(8) a time to love, and a time to hate; a time for war, and a time for peace.

Marv

[Radiata]

31"Simon, Simon, Satan has asked to sift you[a (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=49&chapter=22&version=31#fen-NIV-25887a)] as wheat. 32But I have prayed for you, Simon, that your faith may not fail. And when you have turned back, strengthen your brothers."
33But he replied, "Lord, I am ready to go with you to prison and to death."
34Jesus answered, "I tell you, Peter, before the rooster crows today, you will deny three times that you know me."
35Then Jesus asked them, "When I sent you without purse, bag or sandals, did you lack anything?"
"Nothing," they answered.
36He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. 37It is written: 'And he was numbered with the transgressors'[b (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=49&chapter=22&version=31#fen-NIV-25893b)]; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment."
38The disciples said, "See, Lord, here are two swords."
"That is enough," he replied..

[QuiltAngel]

Oh, thanks you two. You have given me some things to work with as well as thoughts I had while riding in the car today. Sometimes it takes another person to help me see things clearer.

[RadMan]

It's interesting that the framers of the Constitution considered it to be inalienable rights. These rights were also reflected in Islamic Law and "thinkers" before the Constitution was ever written.

[Zecryphon]

Well, I have done what I try not to do and need some help here. I am in a discussion elsewhere regarding use of weapons. There is a guy on there who thinks that we as Christians should not use or have any weapon at all as he says it is not consistent with the New Testament.

I know we can get into the two Kingdoms here, but when most others do not recognize these, how does one go about discussing such an issue? Maybe I am way off in thinking that we would be allowed to possess such an item? I personally do not, but do not think that others can't.

I am going to be out most of the rest of the day, so look forward to anything you have for me when I return.

Is the guy's name Giver, by any chance? I've had many a debate with that guy on this subject and always brought up the following verses:

35 And he said to them, “When I sent you out with no moneybag or knapsack or sandals, did you lack anything?” They said, “Nothing.” 36 He said to them, “But now let the one who has a moneybag take it, and likewise a knapsack. And let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one. 37 For I tell you that this Scripture must be fulfilled in me: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors.’ For what is written about me has its fulfillment.” 38 And they said, “Look, Lord, here are two swords.” And he said to them, “It is enough.”
Luke 22:35-38 (ESV)

35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword?
Romans 8:35 (ESV)

Perhaps he should read these verses in Romans. Seems to me that simply owning a weapon of any kind will not separate us from the love of Christ, although this person obviously thinks owning a weapon is a sin because we are not fully trusting in Christ to protect us. And this verse in 1 Timothy 5 is a great verse to use as a defense for owning and using weapons to protect the lives of those entrusted to us by God.

8 But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.
1 Tim 5:8 (ESV)

[filosofer]

Good thing that whip wasn't loaded when Jesus chased the money changers out of the temple. ;)

[Zecryphon]

I don't know Filo. You combine a whip with the hand of God and I'd say you'd have a pretty potent weapon on your hands. ;)