Is healing of the flesh guarenteed ??

[millerrod]

In scripture is healing of the flesh guarenteed ??

[mont974x4]

It is not guaranteed in this life. There's simply to many godly and faithful men and women who suffer physical ailments in this life. It's simply a part of living in a dying fleshly body.

Does God still heal today? Absolutely, and we should praise Him for those cases.

[JudyB1169]

Nothing really to add to that, except AMEN! God can do what He wants, WHEN He wants, and He can withhold WHAT He wants, as well, all to His glory. :)

[millerrod]

Two good posts i agree with both and have nothing else to add.;)

[MrSnow]

I tend to take a little issue with "by His stripes we are healed" referring to physical healing, since it is in the context of having sin taken away, and Peter refers to it in the context of dying to sin.

But I do find in the New Testament the general feel that God desires good things for His children, and that no father would desire to see his children suffer unnecessarily. Christ always desired to heal people, provided that they would believe that He could heal them. I believe that sickness and disease are part of the curse of sin, and that Christ took the curse upon Himself.

[millerrod]

What do you base healing on is it by Gods mercy alone ?? or is based on our amount of faith ?? Is there anything we have to do to recieve complete physicial healing or is it God mercy alone which heals ?? I believe its Gods Mercy alone because i have seen God heal both the saved and unsaved alike. i do not believe its based on our amount of faith nor do i believe its based on having the right group of people praying.

[mont974x4]

I tend to take a little issue with "by His stripes we are healed" referring to physical healing, since it is in the context of having sin taken away, and Peter refers to it in the context of dying to sin.

But I do find in the New Testament the general feel that God desires good things for His children, and that no father would desire to see his children suffer unnecessarily. Christ always desired to heal people, provided that they would believe that He could heal them. I believe that sickness and disease are part of the curse of sin, and that Christ took the curse upon Himself.


I understand what you're saying, and I agree (at least to an extent), God does give us good gifts and He will give us what we need. In some cases, whether we fully understand it or not, what we need is the illness, hardship, whatever. In Paul's case it was to show him that God's grace was sufficient for him and it kept him humble. In another case it may be so others can see how we handle the adversity. Our trust and faith in Him no matter the circumstances is a powerful testimony.



Awhile back I did a word study on the word "healed" in the passages refering to His stripes. The word indicates being made whole. Now, I have some health issues, but I am whole in Christ. He is my strength when I am weak. He enables me to do what He calls me to do, and one day, He will provide me with a new body.

[Elijah2]

In scripture is healing of the flesh guarenteed ??

Sorry Rod, but NO!

Healing of the flesh can only come from renewing your mind, carnal and spiritual (the heart).

“And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.” (Rom. 12:2))

Flesh is dedicated to the world, which is the carnal mind. Spiritual transformation begins in the mind, deep down within the soul. And as it is renewed then so is the “soul”, and the heart becomes renewed. When this happens it’s call “inner healing”.

When a carnal mind is dedicated to the world and its concerns, then all it can produce is a life of the flesh that’s tossed back and forth by the currents of the culture around you, liberalised religion or a liberlaised life.

But once the carnal mind becomes dedicated to the truths of His Word, then the truths will produce a life that can stand against the onslaught of the enemy and temptations of the relgious and worldly culture around us.

Once we begin to meditate on our Lord Jesus Christ and His Word, allowing the Holy Spirit to guide and shape our thoughts, behaviours, and attitudes, then we can say our FLESH IS HEALED.

Be blessed in Jesus' Name.

[franky67]

Sorry Rod, but NO!

Healing of the flesh can only come from renewing your mind, carnal and spiritual (the heart).

“And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.” (Rom. 12:2))

Flesh is dedicated to the world, which is the carnal mind. Spiritual transformation begins in the mind, deep down within the soul. And as it is renewed then so is the “soul”, and the heart becomes renewed. When this happens it’s call “inner healing”.

When a carnal mind is dedicated to the world and its concerns, then all it can produce is a life of the flesh that’s tossed back and forth by the currents of the culture around you, liberalised religion or a liberlaised life.

But once the carnal mind becomes dedicated to the truths of His Word, then the truths will produce a life that can stand against the onslaught of the enemy and temptations of the relgious and worldly culture around us.

Once we begin to meditate on our Lord Jesus Christ and His Word, allowing the Holy Spirit to guide and shape our thoughts, behaviours, and attitudes, then we can say our FLESH IS HEALED.

Be blessed in Jesus' Name.

Sorry Elijah2, but YES, healing of the flesh is available as a promise of God, as demonstrated by Jesus and the Apostles, and any other person, IN CHRIST, who believes Mark 16:17,18

Originally Posted by franky67 http://img.christianforums.com/style/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=47653310#post47653310) For as many as are the promises of God, in Him they are yes; therefore also through Him is our Amen to the glory of God through us. 2 Cor. 1: 20

Psalm 103:3
Who pardons all your iniquities, who heals all your diseases. a promise ? I think so

That was healing, and NOT Spiritual healing, but healing of the flesh.

Be Healed [and blessed ] in Jesus Name

[JudyB1169]

If that be the case, what about all of the godly disable and chronically ill people? I do not believe God heals all. He heals who He wishes to heal. All of us whether well or ill can glorify God in our bodies. His Spirit is powerful whether our bodies are weak or strong.

[Elijah2]

Sorry Elijah2, but YES, healing of the flesh is available as a promise of God, as demonstrated by Jesus and the Apostles, and any other person, IN CHRIST, who believes Mark 16:17,18

Sorry mate, but your Scriptures have nothing to do with the flesh.

Be blessed in Jesus' Name.

[Jimbeaux]

Sorry Elijah2, but YES, healing of the flesh is available as a promise of God, as demonstrated by Jesus and the Apostles, and any other person, IN CHRIST, who believes Mark 16:17,18

Originally Posted by franky67 http://img.christianforums.com/style/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=47653310#post47653310)
For as many as are the promises of God, in Him they are yes; therefore also through Him is our Amen to the glory of God through us. 2 Cor. 1: 20

Psalm 103:3
Who pardons all your iniquities, who heals all your diseases. a promise ? I think so
That was healing, and NOT Spiritual healing, but healing of the flesh.

Be Healed [and blessed ] in Jesus Name

Sorry, Frany, but NO.

When, in all the history of mankind, was divine healing un-available to people? God healed throughout the OT. It did not take the sacrifice of Christ to purchase our healing. God had already been doing it ... for centuries!

Psalm 103.3, an OT verse BTW, was just as much a promise to the people in the OT as it is to people in the NT.

~Jim

I would rather defend to the death your right to say stupid stuff than to have to listen to it.

[franky67]

Sorry mate, but your Scriptures have nothing to do with the flesh.

Be blessed in Jesus' Name.

Nothing to do with the flesh ?? Look up diseases in the Hebrew, and sick in the Greek, they are PHYSICAL.

We DO speak the same language do we not?

These words are about the flesh, when Jesus healed the leper, it was about the flesh. :confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:


Go back to Genesis and start with how God cared for His people, it was about the physical well being of His people, which is provided in the blessings of His covenant, by the way, that covenant was ordained to last a thousand generations, that means US, you and me, who are "IN CHRIST" Christ is the "MESSENGER OF THE COVENANT"

It's all in the Book

[dkbwarrior]

Sorry, Frany, but NO.


When, in all the history of mankind, was divine healing un-available to people? God healed throughout the OT. It did not take the sacrifice of Christ to purchase our healing. God had already been doing it ... for centuries!


I disagree.

When, in all the history of mankind, was forgiveness of sins un-available to people? God forgave throughout the OT. Yet it still required calvary to ratify the covenant.

God was able to forgive in the Old Testament the same way He was able to heal in the Old Testament. Looking forward to the cross.


Psalm 103.3, an OT verse BTW, was just as much a promise to the people in the OT as it is to people in the NT.


This, at least, we agree upon. Healing is just as much a promise today, as it was then, and just as much a promise as salvation.

Peace...

[franky67]

Sorry, Frany, but NO.

When, in all the history of mankind, was divine healing un-available to people? God healed throughout the OT. It did not take the sacrifice of Christ to purchase our healing. God had already been doing it ... for centuries!

Psalm 103.3, an OT verse BTW, was just as much a promise to the people in the OT as it is to people in the NT.

~Jim

I would rather defend to the death your right to say stupid stuff than to have to listen to it.



But it took the sacrifice of Christ to fulfill the law, once and for ever, no sacrifice prior to Christ was sufficient to do this.

There is this truth, which no one can deny, that ALL we receive from God NOW is "IN CHRIST". No other pathway for salvation to be received, and no other pathway for salvation and or blessings to be given.

[mont974x4]

True, but there is also no guarantee of physical healing in this life for everyone.

[Jimbeaux]

I disagree.

When, in all the history of mankind, was forgiveness of sins un-available to people? God forgave throughout the OT. Yet it still required calvary to ratify the covenant.

God was able to forgive in the Old Testament the same way He was able to heal in the Old Testament. Looking forward to the cross.

[/font]

This, at least, we agree upon. Healing is just as much a promise today, as it was then, and just as much a promise as salvation.

Peace...



There is a fundamental difference between sins (pl.) and sin (sing.), DK.

Forgiveness for sins (plural, sinful acts) has always been available.

Redemption from SIN (sing., unbelief, John 16.9 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=50&chapter=16&verse=9&version=50&context=verse)) needed Atonement.

And salvation was not given to OT believers. That also needed Atonement. That is why Christ came, Made under the Law to redeem those who were under the Law. (Gal. 4.4-5)

~Jim
I would rather defend to the death your right to say stupid stuff than to have to listen to it.

[dkbwarrior]

There is a fundamental difference between sins (pl.) and sin (sing.), DK.

Forgiveness for sins (plural, sinful acts) has always been available.

Redemption from SIN (sing., unbelief, John 16.9 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=50&chapter=16&verse=9&version=50&context=verse)) needed Atonement.

And salvation was not given to OT believers. That also needed Atonement. That is why Christ came, Made under the Law to redeem those who were under the Law. (Gal. 4.4-5)




I don't disagree with any of that. But what has that to do with my statement? I wasn't talking about redemption, I was talking about forgiveness of sin.

Now, I am not a theologian. But my best friend is, he has a doctorate in fact. And he has explained to me that Orthodox theology clearly states that God only forgave sin under the Old Covenant looking forward to the New. This is not an off the cuff idea. There is a very complex and well developed theology behind it.

No-one anywhere ever would have been forgiven of any sin, had not God, who lives outside of time, known of the Lamb Who Was Slain From The Foundation Of The World.

Speaking from the perspective of one trapped within time, we say that God forgave sins under the Old Covenant by way of the shedding of the blood of bulls and goats, typology based on the knowledge of the coming act of redemption to occur on calvary.

Thus, forgiveness of sin under the Old Covenant was directly related to calvary by type and shadow. As were all the implements and procedures of the Mosaic covenant.

Peace...

[dkbwarrior]

True, but there is also no guarantee of physical healing in this life for everyone.

Thanx for clearing this all up for us. We can obviously stop debating, now that you have arrived. What have I been thinking all these years? And what in the world was Jesus thinking? He could have just asked you, and saved the apostles alot of time writing! ;)

Peace...

[Jimbeaux]

I don't disagree with any of that. But what has that to do with my statement? I wasn't talking about redemption, I was talking about forgiveness of sin.

Now, I am not a theologian. But my best friend is, he has a doctorate in fact. And he has explained to me that Orthodox theology clearly states that God only forgave sin under the Old Covenant looking forward to the New. This is not an off the cuff idea. There is a very complex and well developed theology behind it.

No-one anywhere ever would have been forgiven of any sin, had not God, who lives outside of time, known of the Lamb Who Was Slain From The Foundation Of The World.

Speaking from the perspective of one trapped within time, we say that God forgave sins under the Old Covenant by way of the shedding of the blood of bulls and goats, typology based on the knowledge of the coming act of redemption to occur on calvary.

Thus, forgiveness of sin under the Old Covenant was directly related to calvary by type and shadow. As were all the implements and procedures of the Mosaic covenant.

Peace...

Under law (any law) you may be forgiven but still have to pay the penalty for your crime. Pardon is another matter. Pardon requires redemption and redemption requires atonement and that was not available under the Law.

~Jim
I would rather defend to the death your right to say stupid stuff than to have to listen to it.

[mont974x4]

Thanx for clearing this all up for us. We can obviously stop debating, now that you have arrived. What have I been thinking all these years? And what in the world was Jesus thinking? He could have just asked you, and saved the apostles alot of time writing! ;)

Peace...

gee, sorry for getting back on topic:doh:

[dkbwarrior]

gee, sorry for getting back on topic:doh:

^_^

[didaskalos]

Guarenteed as in no exceptions?
No.
Guarenteed for all who have no doubt and who have faith present for healing?
YES!

[didaskalos]

Guarenteed as in no exceptions?
No.
Guarenteed for all who have no doubt and who have faith present for healing?
YES!

[Jimbeaux]

Guarenteed as in no exceptions?
No.
Guarenteed for all who have no doubt and who have faith present for healing?
YES!

So, God our heavenly Father, waits in heaven, arms folded watching us struggle under an illness until we are able to screw up enough faith to earn our healing. To quote some of our detractors in this forum, what kind of father would do that to a child.

IMO, every believer has the faith necessary to be healed if, as I think we believe, God gives us faith. I mean, if faith as a grain of mustard seed can move a mountain surely we have enough faith to remove a virus.

~Jim
Real heroes are people who rise to the occasion then slip quietly away. ~Tom Brokaw

[franky67]

In scripture is healing of the flesh guarenteed ??

Not Guaranteed, but made available to anyone in Christ, therefore healing of the flesh is by and through Christ.

Example, If I gave a hiker a flask of water, there is no guarantee that he will not die of thirst.

[JimfromOhio]

I tend to take a little issue with "by His stripes we are healed" referring to physical healing, since it is in the context of having sin taken away, and Peter refers to it in the context of dying to sin.

But I do find in the New Testament the general feel that God desires good things for His children, and that no father would desire to see his children suffer unnecessarily. Christ always desired to heal people, provided that they would believe that He could heal them. I believe that sickness and disease are part of the curse of sin, and that Christ took the curse upon Himself.

True basic theology is that God does not guarantee physical healing for all believers, at least not in this life, all believers will eventually be healed of all physical aliments as well as spiritual aliments. The author of the book of Hebrews explain that "faith is the conviction of things not seen". A strong Chrisitian is prepared to live out our life on the basis of faith regardless of sight, taste, feel and experience. I have not seen God, nor I have seen Christ nor I have seen or feel the Holy Spirit. Faith is believing there is another dimension to life other than those which can be touched, tasted, seen or felt. There is more to life than that. There is also the realm of the spirit, the invisible spiritual kingdom of God. Biblical faith is this: "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." (Hebrews 11:1-2).

1 Peter 3:17 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=67&chapter=3&verse=17&version=31&context=verse)
It is better, if it is God's will, to suffer for doing good than for doing evil.

1 Peter 4:19 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=67&chapter=4&verse=19&version=31&context=verse)
So then, those who suffer according to God's will should commit themselves to their faithful Creator and continue to do good.

It is God's will for us to Suffer ( Philippians 1:29; 2 Timothy 3:12)

Philippians 1:29 For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for him

Due to sin, life is filled with pain and sorrow and suffering. Life is filled with pain and sorrow and suffering. Bad things happen to everybody because we are living in a sinful world. The sources of "thorns" can be weaknesses, insults, distresses, persecutions and difficulties. God uses suffering to perfect His "Power is perfected in weakness". God is saying "You should not have self-confidence and trust in yourself in the sense you believe you're capable of anything eternal that only I can provide grace and power." Through GRACE, "Perseverance must finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything." (James 1:4). Grace of heart is a gift from God and this has nothing to do with the thorns because God change our circumstances by changing us internally, by allowing Him to lift us above our present thorn and He will lead us into His will. James says count it all joy when you fall into various trials cause trials have a perfecting work. Peter says after you've suffered a while the Lord will make you perfect. God uses suffering to reveal our spiritual condition.

[Jimbeaux]

Not Guaranteed, but made available to anyone in Christ, therefore healing of the flesh is by and through Christ.

Example, If I gave a hiker a flask of water, there is no guarantee that he will not die of thirst.

Salvation is guaranteed to every person who believes on Christ; healing isn’t because healing is not part of our redemption. We are redeemed from sin, not sickness.

Now, if we are talking about two kinds of faith—one for salvation and one for healing—then that is another matter for debate.

~Jim
Real heroes are people who rise to the occasion then slip quietly away. ~Tom Brokaw

[JimfromOhio]

Not Guaranteed, but made available to anyone in Christ, therefore healing of the flesh is by and through Christ.

Example, If I gave a hiker a flask of water, there is no guarantee that he will not die of thirst.

God can guarantee me that I can move the mountains but not once I seen anyone with "faith" to move the mountains.

Matthew 17:20 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=17&verse=20&version=31&context=verse)
He replied, "Because you have so little faith. I tell you the truth, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there' and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you."


Matthew 21:21 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=21&verse=21&version=31&context=verse)
Jesus replied, "I tell you the truth, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and it will be done.

God is absolutely powerful and I have the ability to move the mountains. However, I am unable to move the mountains because God says "no". This is the same for physical healing "in this lifetime", I can be healed according to His will but He chose not to. There have been many Christians have died without being healed.

So what is truth about "guaranteed healing"?

[JimfromOhio]

Salvation is guaranteed to every person who believes on Christ; healing isn’t because healing is not part of our redemption. We are redeemed from sin, not sickness.

Now, if we are talking about two kinds of faith—one for salvation and one for healing—then that is another matter for debate.

~Jim

Real heroes are people who rise to the occasion then slip quietly away. ~Tom Brokaw




Yes, :thumbsup: Genuine salvation that is eternal and guaranteed. Hebrews 9:15 For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.

2 Corinthians 1:22 set His seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come. (which includes HEALING)

[ShammahBenJudah]

In scripture is healing of the flesh guarenteed ??

Consider it this way. We can cast our physical sicknesses and diseases upon Him. Isaiah 53 says He took them upon Himself. But if we keep them on ourselves, we may never know healing.

When I cast myself completely on Him, then I'm in His hands and He will bless me with the very best He has to give me...physical healing becomes irrelevant...to live is Christ and to die is gain.

[Jimbeaux]

Consider it this way. We can cast our physical sicknesses and diseases upon Him. Isaiah 53 says He took them upon Himself. But if we keep them on ourselves, we may never know healing.

*****

Isaiah 53 is NOT talking about physical illness, it’s talking about the spiritual illness of a people. Illness and healing in Isaiah, except for that lone incident with Hezekiah in ch.38, are always spiritual, NOT physical amd are talking about the redemption of a people not individuals.

~Jim
Real heroes are people who rise to the occasion then slip quietly away. ~Tom Brokaw

[JimfromOhio]

Consider it this way. We can cast our physical sicknesses and diseases upon Him. Isaiah 53 says He took them upon Himself. But if we keep them on ourselves, we may never know healing.

When I cast myself completely on Him, then I'm in His hands and He will bless me with the very best He has to give me...physical healing becomes irrelevant...to live is Christ and to die is gain.

Isaiah 53 is a chapter that has been talked about, debated, and argued over for years, and perhaps will continue to be for years to come. People often unconsciously select for special attention certain Scriptures that they are familiar with that they forget to check to see the Scriptures for deeper study. Lack of balance scripturally is often the direct consequence of overemphasis on certain favorite passages while ignoring others that are related.

Sacrifices for Sin (Atonement)

Peter 4:1 (NIV) Therefore, since Christ suffered in his body, arm yourselves also with the same attitude, because he who has suffered in his body is done with sin.

Isaiah 53 is not about physical healing but people are using the chapter is part of physical healing more than spiritual healing (salvation).

Isaiah 53:5
NIV: But he was pierced for our transgressions,he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him,and by his wounds we are healed.
KJV: But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

In the Old Testament Leviticus 9:7 Moses said to Aaron, "Come to the altar and sacrifice your sin offering and your burnt offering and make atonement for yourself and the people; sacrifice the offering that is for the people and make atonement for them, as the LORD has commanded."

Hebrews 5 explains that "Every high priest is selected from among men and is appointed to represent them in matters related to God, to offer gifts and sacrifices for sins" that in Hebrews 7 explains that Jesus is the "high priest meets our need—one who is holy, blameless, pure, set apart from sinners, exalted above the heavens.

In NIV, words were used as:
1. pierced (wounded in KJV) for our transgressions (KJV is the same)
2. crushed (bruised in KJV) for our iniquities (KJV is the same).

Transgression means violation of God's law. Iniquity means depth of sin, lawlessness.

Source of iniquity is the heart (see Matt. 23:28, Ps 41:6).

The bottom line is: SIN as in eternal death. Christ through His blood gave us eternal LIFE.

Animal sacrifices were to cover their sins while Christ's sacrifice to purifies our sins.

Exodus 29:36 "Sacrifice a bull each day as a sin offering to make atonement. Purify the altar by making atonement for it, and anoint it to consecrate it."

Leviticus 9:7 "Moses said to Aaron, "Come to the altar and sacrifice your sin offering and your burnt offering and make atonement for yourself and the people; sacrifice the offering that is for the people and make atonement for them, as the LORD has commanded."

Hebrews 9:14 How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God!

Hebrews 9:15 For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.

We live in a body that is decaying and dying which is temporal. If our bodies are decaying as Paul said, where does it say we are physically whole while our bodies are slowly dying?

The healing of the atonement will bring about our resurrection in glory, where there will be no pain or suffering (Rev. 21:1-4; 22:1-3). Jesus died to save us from our sins is clear both in Isaiah 53 and many other portions of Scripture.

But there are some faith teachers often state that Jesus also died to deliver us from our diseases. Most Christians do not believe that concept.

Any conclusion that physical healing is secured through Christ's death must be derived from other passages. But all other passages regarding Christ's death have to do with deliverance from sin and reconciliation with God.

So, what is the most balanced biblical statement regarding healing? Healing does happen and at the same time, God will commend you for your faith, if you have not received what has been promised (i.e. healing) before you die. God has planned something BETTER for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect (Heb 11:39-40).

[Jimbeaux]

Isaiah 53 is a chapter that has been talked about, debated, and argued over for years, and perhaps will continue to be for years to come.

*****

No one argued over it prior to 1884.

~Jim
Real heroes are people who rise to the occasion then slip quietly away. ~Tom Brokaw

[JimfromOhio]

No one argued over it prior to 1884.

~Jim

Real heroes are people who rise to the occasion then slip quietly away. ~Tom Brokaw




You got that right. No one taught this doctrine for 1,883 years until someone came along in 1884 and made Christians more confused about salvation doctrines.

[didaskalos]

Matt 8 establishes without question that Isaiah 53 includes physical healing."

Matt 8:
16: When the even was come, they brought unto him many that were possessed with devils: and he cast out the spirits with his word, and healed all that were sick:
17: That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses.

Verse 17 is from Isiah 53.
If Isaiah 53 did not include physical healing, Matthew could not have said what he did. He said healing the sick was a fulfillment of Isiah 53.
Therefore Isiah 53 has to include physical healing.

[didaskalos]

So, God our heavenly Father, waits in heaven, arms folded watching us struggle under an illness until we are able to screw up enough faith to earn our healing. To quote some of our detractors in this forum, what kind of father would do that to a child.

IMO, every believer has the faith necessary to be healed if, as I think we believe, God gives us faith. I mean, if faith as a grain of mustard seed can move a mountain surely we have enough faith to remove a virus.

~Jim

Real heroes are people who rise to the occasion then slip quietly away. ~Tom Brokaw



So, God our heavenly Father, waits in heaven, arms folded watching us struggle under (sin) until we are able to screw up enough faith to earn our (salvation).

IMO, every believer has the faith necessary to be healed if, as I think we believe, God gives us faith. I mean, if faith as a grain of mustard seed can move a mountain surely we have enough faith to remove a virus.
I actually agree. But if you doubt in your heart for any reason.. then you get nothing. There are pleanty of doubts being provided to destroy any hope of faith coming to fruit. The main one is that it may be God's will that you ultimately remain sick and even die for some heavenly purpose. This is a doubt that is impossible to overcome.

[Jimbeaux]

Matt 8 establishes without question that Isaiah 53 includes physical healing."

Matt 8:
16: When the even was come, they brought unto him many that were possessed with devils: and he cast out the spirits with his word, and healed all that were sick:
17: That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses.

Verse 17 is from Isiah 53.
If Isaiah 53 did not include physical healing, Matthew could not have said what he did. He said healing the sick was a fulfillment of Isiah 53.
Therefore Isiah 53 has to include physical healing.

Good point, dids. But because He also “healed” the demonized is also evidence that He healed spiritually as well as phsycially.

Still, if I allow Peter (2 Peter 2.21-25 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Peter%202.21-25;&version=50;)) to interpret Isaiah 53, the stripes that heal us heals us spiritually, not physically.

~Jim
Real heroes are people who rise to the occasion then slip quietly away. ~Tom Brokaw

[Jimbeaux]

So, God our heavenly Father, waits in heaven, arms folded watching us struggle under (sin) until we are able to screw up enough faith to earn our (salvation).
*****

No. Actually God is so gracious that He actually gives us the faith to believe (Romans 12.3 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans%2012.3;&version=50;)). I thought you knew this, Dids. ;)

~Jim
Real heroes are people who rise to the occasion then slip quietly away. ~Tom Brokaw

[JimfromOhio]

Good point, dids. But because He also “healed” the demonized is also evidence that He healed spiritually as well as phsycially.

Still, if I allow Peter (2 Peter 2.21-25 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Peter%202.21-25;&version=50;)) to interpret Isaiah 53, the stripes that heal us heals us spiritually, not physically.

~Jim

Real heroes are people who rise to the occasion then slip quietly away. ~Tom Brokaw



I agree. When the Bible says, "...with His stripes we are healed," it is not referring specifically to physical healing, but to the spiritual healing of the disease of sin. However, when sin is healed, sickness CAN BE indirectly healed as well, because sickness is a result of sin. First Peter 2:24 reinforces the fact that the cross was designed primarily to heal sin: "Who His own self bore our sins in His own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness; by whose stripes ye were healed."

Going back to Matthew, he explains the fact that Isaiah 53:4 extends from the sin problem to sickness which means there's healing and wholeness in the atonement, but only as it comes to us in the fullness of salvation, when our bodies decayed, died and are glorified in His eternal Kingdom.

One day, He will take away all our sicknesses away, but the healing that took place during His earthly ministry was only a small anticipatory sample of that which was spoken by the prophet Isaiah of what will happen.

[didaskalos]

No. Actually God is so gracious that He actually gives us the faith to believe (Romans 12.3 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans%2012.3;&version=50;)). I thought you knew this, Dids. ;)

~Jim

Real heroes are people who rise to the occasion then slip quietly away. ~Tom Brokaw



Just a thought..
Having received the faith to be saved, is it still possible for you to be lost? IOWs for that faith to be ineffectual?
Can a Christian become lost?

[JimfromOhio]

Just a thought..
Having received the faith to be saved, is it still possible for you to be lost? IOWs for that faith to be ineffectual?
Can a Christian become lost?

Maybe a person was never saved in the first place. Christians will never be lost or disowned by God. A Christian may be confused by false doctrines but still a heir of God's blessing.

In the FAMOUS verse, Ephesians 2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God which backs up by Jesus in John 6:29 "The work of God is this: to believe in the one He has sent." Jesus said again in John 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing.

Later on in Ephesians 4:30 ".....do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption". Paul wrote in 2 Timothy 2:19 "Nevertheless, God's solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: "The Lord knows those who are His."

Corinthians 1:22 "Set His seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come."

The new Covenant is sealed in the blood of Jesus, Who is our Savior and Mediator, brought us together with His Grace and Mercy that we have great spiritual and eternal freedom. The only way to get in is to believe Him with my heart which is sealed by the Holy Spirit through the gift of Faith, through Jesus Christ, His grace and the conviction of the Holy Spirit.

Jesus is my Shephard who keeps me safe, John 10:28 "I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of My hand." How can anyone who saved get snatched out of His hand and lose salvation unless a person is not saved in the first place?

[Elijah2]

Nothing to do with the flesh ?? Look up diseases in the Hebrew, and sick in the Greek, they are PHYSICAL.

We DO speak the same language do we not?

These words are about the flesh, when Jesus healed the leper, it was about the flesh. :confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:


Go back to Genesis and start with how God cared for His people, it was about the physical well being of His people, which is provided in the blessings of His covenant, by the way, that covenant was ordained to last a thousand generations, that means US, you and me, who are "IN CHRIST" Christ is the "MESSENGER OF THE COVENANT"

It's all in the Book
Sorry Mate, I've been dealing with my FLESH for a long time, and the "inner healing" of my "soul" has been healing my FLESH.

Be blessed in Jesus' Name.

[Optimax]

In scripture is healing of the flesh guarenteed ??

No, it is not a guarantee. If it was all Christians would be physically healed when saved.

It is made available though to those who will learn to receive healing by faith.

Just as the woman with the issue of blood and others mentioned in the Gospels.

A person who makes a quality decision to be healed, and stays in the word, and studies the word, and meditates on the word, and lets the word rule their conversation, will receive manifested healing.

[didaskalos]

There is no such thing as "spiritual healing"
This is a phrase that is used by new agers and that has been adopted by religious Christians. It is yet one more step toward the anti-christ religion that will be accepted and followed by Christians who have fallen away from the Faith.
I will stick with Jesus and being born again.

You will never find the phrase in the scripture or any implication that a person can be "spiritually healed." To the contrary. Jesus did not say "you must be spiritually healed." He said "You must be born again." You do not need a "healed" spirit. You need a new created spirit made after the image of Him.
Not once in the entire ministry of Jesus did He heal a spirit. Not once did He lay hands on a sinner and say "your spirit is healed.." Not once in the NT does any epistle say anything about spiritual healing or that our spirits were sick. Our spirits were not sick. Our spirits were spiritually DEAD. Dead things do not need to be healed. They need to be resurrected.

[JimfromOhio]

There is no such thing as "spiritual healing"
This is a phrase that is used by new agers and that has been adopted by religious Christians. It is yet one more step toward the anti-christ religion that will be accepted and followed by Christians who have fallen away from the Faith.
I will stick with Jesus and being born again.

You will never find the phrase in the scripture or any implication that a person can be "spiritually healed." To the contrary. Jesus did not say "you must be spiritually healed." He said "You must be born again." You do not need a "healed" spirit. You need a new created spirit made after the image of Him.
Not once in the entire ministry of Jesus did He heal a spirit. Not once did He lay hands on a sinner and say "your spirit is healed.." Not once in the NT does any epistle say anything about spiritual healing or that our spirits were sick. Our spirits were not sick. Our spirits were spiritually DEAD. Death things do not need to be healed. They need to be resurrected.

In fact, Christianity has taught this spiritual healing for thousands of years. Reformation and of Rome failed to bridge their differences on the doctrine of justification not merely as forgiveness of sins, but also as a process wherein Christ brings spiritual healing. Luther, during the time period from 1515 to 1521, linked justifying faith not only to forgiveness, but also to spiritual healing and perseverance in faith. Luther even made comments on Romans 4:7 testify to his conviction that justifying faith not only receives the imputed righteousness of Christ, but also brings forth spiritual growth and healing in the life of the believer. I could go on and on.

To be born again is to rise from spiritual death. The transformation from death to life, from sin to righteousness. God gave us a new heart, a new clean inside, so that the spiritual healing in salvation is as whole as the physical healing as performed by the Lord. The spiritual sickness is sin; the spiritual healing is salvation. Jesus' self description as "physician" (Mark 2:17) and the illustrative value of the healing miracles in defining his mission show how readily physical and spiritual healing unite in "salvation" (Luke 4:18 - 19).

[Angel*Eyes]

So, God our heavenly Father, waits in heaven, arms folded watching us struggle under an illness until we are able to screw up enough faith to earn our healing. To quote some of our detractors in this forum, what kind of father would do that to a child.


I see a loving Father waiting in heaven ready to bless us
but is grieved since some of His children push Him away and doubt Him (basically calling Him a liar by saying Jesus' blood didn't cover our sickness).

By the way, I believe that healing is available but not guaranteed.

[Angel*Eyes]

1 Peter 3:17 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=67&chapter=3&verse=17&version=31&context=verse)
It is better, if it is God's will, to suffer for doing good than for doing evil.
1 Peter 4:19 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=67&chapter=4&verse=19&version=31&context=verse)
So then, those who suffer according to God's will should commit themselves to their faithful Creator and continue to do good.
It is God's will for us to Suffer ( Philippians 1:29; 2 Timothy 3:12)



These scriptures mainly refer to suffering/persecution from our adversaries for being associated with Christ.


If and when we suffer in our bodies, it is only for a season.

A perfect example is the man who was born blind in John 9:1-7
The man was allowed to be born blind, so that God could manifest His mighty work through Him.

[~RENEE~]

I'm just gonna say this.

This has been discussed time after time after time after time after tim after time after time after time after time after time and more than that right here at CF.

And you know where I stand.


Those of you that are happy in the sickness that satan has put upon you may do so. But I will choose His healing.

In fact if some of you would have gone through what I did today you have ran to the doctor and gotten a bunch of steriods to help you. I went to church as sick as a dog. Told the pastor that I have been having major asthma attacks all day long and the nebulizar ain't helpen. He and some elders from the church prayed. By the time worship was over I had put up my inhaler and was breathen fine.

Enjoy your sickness I will enjoy God's healing. now in the words of my snuggle bear. buh bye buh bye.

[Angel*Eyes]

But if you doubt in your heart for any reason.. then you get nothing. There are pleanty of doubts being provided to destroy any hope of faith coming to fruit.The main one is that it may be God's will that you ultimately remain sick and even die for some heavenly purpose. This is a doubt that is impossible to overcome.


This type of doubt as well as man-made doctrines both block revelation.

Yesterday, I had decided to give up on this healing debate. That is until I heard a great sermon last night on healing,etc.[The pastor said to keep speaking the truth even if it's rejected. He talked about how people are going around spreading doubt. He said that He had been against the so called healing movement, but God keep bringing the truth to him until it finally broke through to him].


I have a problem with the doctrine that some are 'chosen' to suffer graciously.

I've read of a guy, Gene, who was paralyzed for 17 years . He had started to write a book on how to die graciously since he thought it was God's will for him.
He ends up getting healed by God. He probably had assumed that just because his healing took so long that it wasn't meant to be.

[ShammahBenJudah]

No one argued over it prior to 1884.

~Jim
Real heroes are people who rise to the occasion then slip quietly away. ~Tom Brokaw


Maybe its because the old timer's didn't need to complicate it, maybe they simply cst ALL their cares on Him?

THAT'S what He took on Himself...ALL our cares. When we cast ALL our cares on Him, it doesn't matter if He gives us grace in spite of our difficulty or removes the difficulty. He is our source...and He will be our source.

I'm not saying that healing is in the atonement, I'm saying that LIFE is in Jesus.

[JimfromOhio]

These scriptures mainly refer to suffering/persecution from our adversaries for being associated with Christ.


If and when we suffer in our bodies, it is only for a season.

A perfect example is the man who was born blind in John 9:1-7
The man was allowed to be born blind, so that God could manifest His mighty work through Him.

And another, Lazarus' sickness was mentioned in John 11:4 first because sickness was the "necessary purpose" for bringing glory to God. What was to be the point of Lazarus's sickness? Jesus said, "The whole point of Lazarus's sickness is not death, but the glory of God." Jesus didn't heal Lazarus before his death because Jesue wanted to "raise" Lazarus from death. When Jesus said, "I am the resurrection, and the life" (Jn. 11:25). He was stating that He not only heals but able to raise people from death. God's promise is eternal because Christ is the mediator of the covenant, that we receive the promised eternal inheritance. With that promise, as a Christian, I always thank God continually for my guarantee of my spiritual security and freedom in Christ. Christ is the mediator of the new covenant, that we receive the promised eternal inheritance.

The fear generated by bad theologies was a problem that disabled people faced in Jesus’ day as today’s Christians with bad theologies. In John 9:2-3, Jesus and His disciples encountered a blind man. “His disciples asked Him, ‘Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?’ ‘Neither this man nor his parents sinned,’ said Jesus, ‘but this happened so that the work of God might be displayed in his life.’” A solid and sound theological framework is needed to understand disabilities and God's sovereignty over suffering.

The sources of sufferings ("thorns") can be weaknesses, insults, distresses, persecutions and difficulties (which also includes sickness), (see 2 Corinthians 12). Paul just needed to focus on God rather than the problem. God uses thorns (sufferings) to perfect His "power is perfected in weakness". God uses thorns (sufferings) to perfect His "power is perfected in weakness". God is saying "You should not have self-confidence and trust in yourself in the sense you believe you're capable of anything eternal that only I can provide grace and power."

[JimfromOhio]

Maybe its because the old timer's didn't need to complicate it, maybe they simply cst ALL their cares on Him?

THAT'S what He took on Himself...ALL our cares. When we cast ALL our cares on Him, it doesn't matter if He gives us grace in spite of our difficulty or removes the difficulty. He is our source...and He will be our source.

I'm not saying that healing is in the atonement, I'm saying that LIFE is in Jesus.

We are so temporal in our focus and forget God's eternal promises.

James 4 reminds us of our faith in God's will
13Now listen, you who say, "Today or tomorrow we will go to this or that city, spend a year there, carry on business and make money." 14Why, you do not even know what will happen tomorrow. What is your life? You are a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes. 15Instead, you ought to say, "If it is the Lord's will, we will live and do this or that."

Romans 8:11 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=52&chapter=8&verse=11&version=31&context=verse)
And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit, who lives in you.

Jude 1:21 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=72&chapter=1&verse=21&version=31&context=verse)
Keep yourselves in God's love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life.

[ShammahBenJudah]

We are so temporal in our focus and forget God's eternal promises.

James 4 reminds us of our faith in God's will
13Now listen, you who say, "Today or tomorrow we will go to this or that city, spend a year there, carry on business and make money." 14Why, you do not even know what will happen tomorrow. What is your life? You are a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes. 15Instead, you ought to say, "If it is the Lord's will, we will live and do this or that."

Romans 8:11 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=52&chapter=8&verse=11&version=31&context=verse)
And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit, who lives in you.

Jude 1:21 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=72&chapter=1&verse=21&version=31&context=verse)
Keep yourselves in God's love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life.

Excellent point. If we stay focused on the prize before us, we're less apt to be distracted by all our temporal "issues". But a part of running the race includes taking steps today...or overcoming the temporal mountains that get in the way. The future promises are great and worth selling everything we have and are to obtain them...but we need a little grace here and now, too.

[JudyB1169]

Also an excellent point. God wants us to keep our eye on the prize, but also wants us to know He is for the here and now as well. Which is why He can and does heal us if He so chooses. Again, however, I do not think it is a guaranteed thing for everyone in the here and now. The guarantee will be when we get to Heaven.

[LeadWorship]

...But a part of running the race includes taking steps today...or overcoming the temporal mountains that get in the way...

Thy word is a lamp unto my feet. Feet. That means where I place my feet as I pick them up and place them down. Not that I can be shown an end goal, or vision, or picture, and blindly walk towards it trampling the flowers and thorns as I make my way toward my goal. We should focus on the path directly before us. Good word, my tribal brother. ;)

[franky67]

Matt 8 establishes without question that Isaiah 53 includes physical healing."

Matt 8:
16: When the even was come, they brought unto him many that were possessed with devils: and he cast out the spirits with his word, and healed all that were sick:
17: That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses.

Verse 17 is from Isiah 53.
If Isaiah 53 did not include physical healing, Matthew could not have said what he did. He said healing the sick was a fulfillment of Isiah 53.
Therefore Isiah 53 has to include physical healing.

Yes, and isn't it interesting that Matthew, being a Hebrew, correctly interpreted "griefs and sorrows" as used in the KJV, and in the same KJV bible in Matthew ch 8, the words infirmities, and SICKNESS, are used, the Hebrew word actually used in Isaiah 53:4 for "griefs" is,

Choliy 2483 Strongs, has all these meanings
malady, anxiety,calamity, disease, sick, or sickness,
And in 53:10 God is pleased to put Jesus to grief, [strongs 2470 chalah] and one of the meanings here is to make sick.

So Matthew read Isaiah 53:4, and 10 as talking about SICK. he didn't pick any other meaning for griefs, but sick, And he didn't refer to Jesus' healing as spiritual.

Matthew must have known the other meanings of choliy and Chalah, but he applied them to Jesus physically healing the people right there in front of him.

Isaiah 53 prophesied Jesus to heal, Jesus didn't spiritually heal Israel that day, he healed the sick.

[victoryword]

Healing is guaranteed only to those who will take God at his Word. the rest of you, apart from the grace of god, will remain sick. Scriptures have already been given to prove this.

Yes, God does make "sovereign choices" but he does this nased on those who will obey His sovereign commands and accept His sovereign promises by faith. Have fun arguing over the same thing over and over agin.

[ShammahBenJudah]

Thy word is a lamp unto my feet. Feet. That means where I place my feet as I pick them up and place them down. Not that I can be shown an end goal, or vision, or picture, and blindly walk towards it trampling the flowers and thorns as I make my way toward my goal. We should focus on the path directly before us. Good word, my tribal brother. ;)

Hey Bro! Its monsoon season, are you guys getting a lot of that liquid sunshine, too?

The thing that gets confusing is that there's a prize set before us...a higher calling. Thats' the "distant" target we aiming at, but we don't get there in leaps and bounds, its step by step, day by day. How can we effectively focus on both?

By focusing on the Word. But we struggle with different interpretations of it. How can we figure it out?

I'm suggesting that there may come a time when we stop trying to interpret the Word and let the Word interpret itself.

Say what?

And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth. John 1:14

I'm not advocating that we stop studying...far from it. But our doctrines are simply expressions of our understanding of the Word. I'm not advocating that we abandon our doctrines either, but rather that we let the Word live in and through us.

I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, Who loved me, and gave Himself for me. Galatians 2:20

Is this making any sense? Sometimes I think we let the veil of our doctrines shroud or complicate the simplicity of it all.

Just sell EVERYTHING to Jesus, which is our reasonable service...and follow Him. Will He not keep us along the way?

[ImmersionX]

In scripture is healing of the flesh guarenteed ??

Timeframe now---No it is not.

Timeframe Second Coming---yes and no depending on if you have accepted/asked our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ into/to become a part of your life.


Peace and God Bless.
:thumbsup:

[ImmersionX]

I know I am quoting a first page post(see #6....thanks millerrod!) but it's a very good question:

What do you base healing on is it by Gods mercy alone ?? or is based on our amount of faith ?? Is there anything we have to do to recieve complete physicial healing or is it God mercy alone which heals ??

God's Will alone. No amount of faith can guarantee any amount of any "type" of healing period.

Is there anything we have to do to recieve complete physicial healing

Since nothing is guaranteed in regards to this question...biblically of course then there is nothing we have to do, it's a non-issue. God's Will. =)



Peace and God Bless.

[JudyB1169]

God's Will alone. No amount of faith can guarantee any amount of any "type" of healing period.

Precisely!:thumbsup:

[victoryword]

I know I am quoting a first page post(see #6....thanks millerrod!) but it's a very good question:



God's Will alone. No amount of faith can guarantee any amount of any "type" of healing period.



Since nothing is guaranteed in regards to this question...biblically of course then there is nothing we have to do, it's a non-issue. God's Will. =)



Peace and God Bless.

And once again we just ignore the Bible for our own prejudicial beliefs about God and life. However, the Bible speaks the exact opposite of what healing detractors on this forum say:

Jas 5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
Jas 5:15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.
Jas 5:16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

The Random House Dictionary defines "shall" as "will have to, is determined to, or definitely will." If the Bible does not mean what it says then it is untrustworthy, all of its promises, including the ones concerning salvation, are a sham, and the Bible should be thrown away.

Thankfully I have been able to prove the trustworthiness of the Bible in my own life so detractors are a little to late to get me to doubt and cast aspersions upon God's Word under the false guise of protecting some humanly defined doctrine of God's sovereignty.

God says that the prayer prayed in faith "shall" or "definitely will" save the sick. Some of you say it is not guaranteed. Who should I believe? You or the Bible? Guess which one I plan to believe? You get only one guess.

[ImmersionX]

And once again we just ignore the Bible for our own prejudicial beliefs about God and life. However, the Bible speaks the exact opposite of what healing detractors on this forum say:Jas 5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
Jas 5:15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.
Jas 5:16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.
The Random House Dictionary defines "shall" as "will have to, is determined to, or definitely will." If the Bible does not mean what it says then it is untrustworthy, all of its promises, including the ones concerning salvation, are a sham, and the Bible should be thrown away.

Thankfully I have been able to prove the trustworthiness of the Bible in my own life so detractors are a little to late to get me to doubt and cast aspersions upon God's Word under the false guise of protecting some humanly defined doctrine of God's sovereignty.

God says that the prayer prayed in faith "shall" or "definitely will" save the sick. Some of you say it is not guaranteed. Who should I believe? You or the Bible? Guess which one I plan to believe? You get only one guess.

Thanks for setting me straight.

save the sickYou said that phrase, and it's in the bible...tell me what does this have to do with the OP? Save does not equal physically heal. Nuff said.



God Bless you.

[victoryword]

Thanks for setting me straight.
You said that phrase, and it's in the bible...tell me what does this have to do with the OP? Save does not equal physically heal. Nuff said.



God Bless you.

The word "save" in that passage is "sozo". According to Strong's dictionary:
From a primary word σῶς sōs̄ (contraction for the obsolete σάος saos, “safe”); to save, that is, deliver or protect (literally or figuratively): - heal, preserve, save (self), do well, be (make) whole.
It is the exact same word used in other places that is translated as "heal" or "healed." Observe:

Mar 5:34 And he said unto her, Daughter, thy faith hath made thee whole; go in peace, and be whole of thy plague.

[ImmersionX]

Not physically heal.
...thanks for all the insight.


God Bless.

[victoryword]

Not physically heal.
...thanks for all the insight.


God Bless.

Wrong.

Mar 5:34 And he said unto her, Daughter, thy faith hath made thee whole; go in peace, and be whole of thy plague.

The word "whole" is the exact same word used in James 5:16. Furthermore, if there was no physical healing involved, why would james say, "and the Lord shall raise him up"?

[JimfromOhio]

I could not respond while I was out since I was in the process of moving into a house that we just bought. I decided to let this and other threads go because it is now in God's hands to direct our minds and hearts to go to the right path of doctrinal beliefs.

Being physically healed will be a doctrinal issue for many because many Christians have died without being physically healed. Once I settled moving into my new home, I will come back and discuss the doctrinal differences between physical healing and spiritual healing.

[millerrod]

Again TWO sides of ONE coin.
Are we guarenteed Physicial healing ?? Absolutly YES YES YES
are we guarenteed it before the flesh that is now upon us gives the apperance of death ?? Absolutly not
We are short minded in our thinking of time. From the day we turned to Christ our life became eternal without end. From the day we turned to Christ our physical healing is 100% guarenteed.
If our flesh died today that same flesh will be raised, healed and be uncoruptable and Gods promise 100% fulfilled.
We are all a bit guilty of thinking our life is ; life ,death , heaven when it fact once we turn to Christ its LIFE ETERNAL

[Jimbeaux]

We are guaranteed healing in our physical bodies only when this mortal puts on immortality and this corruptible puts on incorruption—at the resurrection of the dead when we will have new bodies. That’s the ultimate healing. Until then, we are not guaranteed anything except that these mortal/corruptible bodies will age and die. And aging (IMO) is the one physical disease/malady for which there is no healing.

~Jim
Real heroes are people who rise to the occasion then slip quietly away. ~Tom Brokaw

[ImmersionX]

K now that makes sense to me, what I've been taught and have always believed. But if that's what the OP was about...IE DEATH TO GLORIFICATION UPON THE END then it's misleading. Cause my entire point, and subsequent arguement with victoryword was based upon the immediate, here and now.

thanks and God bless.

[JimfromOhio]

Wrong.

Mar 5:34 And he said unto her, Daughter, thy faith hath made thee whole; go in peace, and be whole of thy plague.
The word "whole" is the exact same word used in James 5:16. Furthermore, if there was no physical healing involved, why would james say, "and the Lord shall raise him up"?
In the Gospel including Mark, the main explaination the fact that Isaiah 53:4 extends from the sin problem to sickness which means there's healing and wholeness in the atonement, but only as it comes to us in the fullness of salvation, when our bodies decayed, died and are glorified in His eternal Kingdom.

One day, He will take away all our sicknesses away, but the healing that took place during His earthly ministry was only a small anticipatory sample of that which was spoken by the prophet Isaiah of what will happen. The healing of the atonement will bring about our resurrection in glory, where there will be no pain or suffering (Rev. 21:1-4; 22:1-3). Jesus died to save us from our sins is clear both in Isaiah 53 and many other portions of Scripture.

"Faith teachers" often state that Jesus also died to deliver us from our diseases today but majority of Christians do not believe that concept except that we will be fully healed one day at His time, not ours. Any conclusion that physical healing is secured through Christ's death must be derived from other passages. But all other passages regarding Christ's death have to do with deliverance from sin and reconciliation with God.

[Jimbeaux]

*****



God's Will alone. No amount of faith can guarantee any amount of any "type" of healing period.



Since nothing is guaranteed in regards to this question...biblically of course then there is nothing we have to do, it's a non-issue. God's Will. =)



Peace and God Bless.


Faith for my deliverance is not faith in God.
Faith means, whether I am visibly delivered or not,
I will stick to my belief that God is love.
There are some things only learned in a fiery furnace.
~Oswald Chambers in Run Today's Race

[ShammahBenJudah]

I've got blessings that say, One day some of you will look back and remember some crazy old guy in a cartoon Zoot Suit who told you, "Just give it all to Jesus and let Him handle it, that's His job not ours."

And you'll say ":doh:, think of all that time I could've spent doing something more productive!"

Once or twice around the mountain is cool, but I'm getting dizzy, lol.

[BenAdam]

MOD HAT

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i10/benadam/misc/benny-hinn.jpg

This thread is being closed at the request of the OP, as requested in this thread: http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7257722.
If you'd like to continue with this debate, please feel free to start a new thread on the subject.
Thank you for your understanding in this matter.

/MOD HAT