Everyone Hates Everyone Else Thread

[HalcyonFire]

Just thought I'd chime in like everyone else has. :doh:

Maybe everyone should sit down and have a pow-wow with someone who has no agenda (messianic or jewish)?

just a thought to maybe get people back into the purpose of this and other areas on CF... fellowship and learning.

:hug:

[ShirChadash]

I am so done. I am freaking exhausted. I'm outta here... ENRM, I love ya, girl, you know where to find me.

[HalcyonFire]

I care about everyone and find it so sad to sever things like this and become us against them....

[Qalevra]

Maybe everyone should sit down and have a pow-wow with someone who has no agenda (messianic or jewish)?

How so? Or do you mean another fight? :yum:

just a thought to maybe get people back into the purpose of this and other areas on CF... fellowship and learning.

I thought cyberlizard asked a tasteful question in the messianic forum that went pretty well. It IS possible to have that good dialogue.

I'm done with the fighting, unless someone wants to try and demonize the Jews again.

[HalcyonFire]

I mean the more personal stuff with the agreement that the person moderating has the ability to call someone on what they say that is in appropriate.

not agreeing on things is fine, name calling, religion bashing, etc. is just not okay from either end.

[Kris10leigh]

ERM, ya wanna get us started? I'm just not sure what you're going for. Dispelling of myths?

I get your intent though, and I'm thankful for it!

[HalcyonFire]

getting past the PERSONAL hurt feelings. That's what I'm interested in. Not in us becoming one big loving MJ & J family... I just don't think that's gonna happen. BUT we can get beyond things misspoken and spoken in anger that cause us to speak in cruel ways. KWIM?

[simchat_torah]

heh, everyone seems to think they are in a holy war. JIHAAAD!

whatever.

[ChavaK]

You must have been reading my mind.....I was just thinking
about beginning a "Let's start over" thread...

I would suggest we ignore anyone who we feel is antagonistic
either to our faith or to ourselves personally.

[HalcyonFire]

sounds good to me. (just remember those that feel they have to be flaming and challenge people's beliefs that way are not worth the time it takes to read posts... but those that ask with an honest heart to learn and grow should be cherished - lol )

[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

You must have been reading my mind.....I was just thinking
about beginning a "Let's start over" thread...

I would suggest we ignore anyone who we feel is antagonistic
either to our faith or to ourselves personally. And who would be #1 on your list? Would it be me? And if so, then why is that? Is it because I have shown that the Orthodox have an agenda? Where have all the Messianics gone from this Messianic Forum? Perhaps they should change this to the Judaic Orthodox Forum.

[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

sounds good to me. (just remember those that feel they have to be flaming and challenge people's beliefs that way are not worth the time it takes to read posts... but those that ask with an honest heart to learn and grow should be cherished - lol ) God loves a peace maker, but at the same time we do not want to be tricked. Agree to peace, but watch out for conditions.

[ChavaK]

And who would be #1 on your list? Would it be me? And if so, then why is that? Is it because I have shown that the Orthodox have an agenda? Where have all the Messianics gone from this Messianic Forum? Perhaps they should change this to the Judaic Orthodox Forum.
nah, you wouldn't even make the top 10, LOL.
Actually, I don't think there is anyone here I would ignore-
nobody here has bugged me that much (yet)- maybe you
can try a little harder and be the first on the list, LOL? :D

Don't know what agenda you mean, don't have a clue where the Messies
are, you will have to ask them....don't think the powers that be at CF
would be wild about a name change. Maybe you can suggest it to them..

[LammyPammy]

I'm glad to see that there are efforts again to undo divisiveness. May you be blessed that keep trying. :thumbsup:

Ugh! It is just terrible here most of the time. I was so excited to see and join this forum. But as I read and read and read I felt so sad and discouraged. Sadness turned to frustrated, frustration turned to embarrassment for both sides of each "debate."

I noticed that the attitudes and accusations started staying with me outside of CF. I felt that I was developing a "bitter root" by reading here. Of all forums on CF I had to give myself boundaries about when and how I read these threads and how much time I spent doing it.

When I was younger I was sometimes treated with prejudice and endured slander and hatred from people who felt they were better for whatever reason. It made me sick to my stomach, literally. I remembered those same feelings reading sometimes. For both sides! Why, would any of us want to do that to each other? Hasn't there been enough of all that in the past few thousand years! So much pride slinging around too. Ugh! :'(

What I have seen has made me ask our Father to forgive us all. IMHO, the judgmental attitudes, level of self-promotion and mud dragging is despicable for those who claim to know our G-d. I also see folks so insecure that they want to force others to say, "Yes, you are superior!" Such brilliant people here and so many open hearts.

I fear what outsiders see here too. Do we look any different from the nightly news when doing this to each other? Saying sorry just to turn around and begin another thread and start the mud slinging madness all over again is not "sorry."

Who ever we are and what ever we seek or need, this thread looks more divisive and mean then all the rest that I have visited. So what's the deal people? We can all follow David's example and ask our Father to examine our hearts and show us what is not good. Why don't we create a thread where we humble ourselves and admit what the L-ord reveals to us about the intentions of our wicked hearts? It can be done as an actual amends for our ungodly attitudes and for the slander we may have commited to our brothers and sisters.

In case I was not careful enough to make this clear, it is not everyone in the JMF (or whatever the name finally became) and it is not every thread, but it is pervasive enough to have made an impact on my spirit and hurt me. I've read that others have been hurt too.

For those of you who now want to rip apart everything that I have said and use it to grandstand, I don't have a lot of time to be in this forum. But I do stop in when I am able to. I continue to come back because my heart is with the Messianic Jewish movement. I continue to pray and hope for this forum. If you want to still say something to me, pm me and spare the public debates. You will do that if you aren't only interested in making yourself seem smarter or better at someone elses expense.

Sincerely,

LammyPammy

[simchat_torah]

And who would be #1 on your list? Would it be me? And if so, then why is that? Is it because I have shown that the Orthodox have an agenda? Where have all the Messianics gone from this Messianic Forum? Perhaps they should change this to the Judaic Orthodox Forum.Still looking for that fight I see...
by all means... carry forth your jihad in that case.

[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

Still looking for that fight I see...
by all means... carry forth your jihad in that case. Have a good evening ST. :wave:

[Kris10leigh]

Wow, LammyPammy. Welcome aboard!!! :clap: Glad to have you! ;)

[2ducklow]

I'm glad to see that there are efforts again to undo divisiveness. May you be blessed that keep trying. :thumbsup:

Ugh! It is just terrible here most of the time. I was so excited to see and join this forum. But as I read and read and read I felt so sad and discouraged. Sadness turned to frustrated, frustration turned to embarrassment for both sides of each "debate."

I noticed that the attitudes and accusations started staying with me outside of CF. I felt that I was developing a "bitter root" by reading here. Of all forums on CF I had to give myself boundaries about when and how I read these threads and how much time I spent doing it.

When I was younger I was sometimes treated with prejudice and endured slander and hatred from people who felt they were better for whatever reason. It made me sick to my stomach, literally. I remembered those same feelings reading sometimes. For both sides! Why, would any of us want to do that to each other? Hasn't there been enough of all that in the past few thousand years! So much pride slinging around too. Ugh! :'(

What I have seen has made me ask our Father to forgive us all. IMHO, the judgmental attitudes, level of self-promotion and mud dragging is despicable for those who claim to know our G-d. I also see folks so insecure that they want to force others to say, "Yes, you are superior!" Such brilliant people here and so many open hearts.

I fear what outsiders see here too. Do we look any different from the nightly news when doing this to each other? Saying sorry just to turn around and begin another thread and start the mud slinging madness all over again is not "sorry."

Who ever we are and what ever we seek or need, this thread looks more divisive and mean then all the rest that I have visited. So what's the deal people? We can all follow David's example and ask our Father to examine our hearts and show us what is not good. Why don't we create a thread where we humble ourselves and admit what the L-ord reveals to us about the intentions of our wicked hearts? It can be done as an actual amends for our ungodly attitudes and for the slander we may have commited to our brothers and sisters.

In case I was not careful enough to make this clear, it is not everyone in the JMF (or whatever the name finally became) and it is not every thread, but it is pervasive enough to have made an impact on my spirit and hurt me. I've read that others have been hurt too.

For those of you who now want to rip apart everything that I have said and use it to grandstand, I don't have a lot of time to be in this forum. But I do stop in when I am able to. I continue to come back because my heart is with the Messianic Jewish movement. I continue to pray and hope for this forum. If you want to still say something to me, pm me and spare the public debates. You will do that if you aren't only interested in making yourself seem smarter or better at someone elses expense.

Sincerely,

LammyPammy You're slinging mud at us who debate, so what's the difference? If I was writting a book report on what you've just said the short of it would be,"People who debate are disgusting."

[Kris10leigh]

2Duck, no she's not!! You've not seen the ugliness around here lately. Please, please let's not start something on LammyPammy.

This was never supposed to be a debate area!

[2ducklow]

2Duck, no she's not!! You've not seen the ugliness around here lately. Please, please let's not start something on LammyPammy.

This was never supposed to be a debate area!So she can sling mud at us who debate but we can't say anything in response? 'derisive and mean" were her words about us that debate. she raked us over the coals and you hurrahed her. but one peep out of me in defence and I'm starting something?

[Kris10leigh]

So she can sling mud at us who debate but we can't say anything in response? 'derisive and mean" were her words about us that debate. she raked us over the coals and you hurrahed her. but one peep out of me in defence and I'm starting something?

I really don't think you understand. :doh: She's not talking about any official debates. She's talking about what's been going on in this particular forum and also the Messianic Judaism forum specifically. It's been horrendous. You haven't been there, and if you have been it's been as a lurker because I havent' "seen" you. I can't stress enough how ugly it has been. Again, this is not a debate forum. You are currently in "Messianic Way".

I'm sorry, but what I see is someone has come here and commended our efforts at reconciliation and you are bashing her. She is NOT bashing you. She's not.

[2ducklow]

I really don't think you understand. :doh: She's not talking about any official debates. She's talking about what's been going on in this particular forum and also the Messianic Judaism forum specifically. It's been horrendous. You haven't been there, and if you have been it's been as a lurker because I havent' "seen" you. I can't stress enough how ugly it has been. Again, this is not a debate forum. You are currently in "Messianic Way".

I'm sorry, but what I see is someone has come here and commended our efforts at reconciliation and you are bashing her. She is NOT bashing you. She's not.Then why are you debating with me about her mud slinging? now you say I am bashing her, mud slinging from you now. I never used the words, mean and bashing, you girls did.

[Kris10leigh]

Then why are you debating with me about her mud slinging? now you say I am bashing her, mud slinging from you now. I never used the words, mean and bashing, you girls did.

:doh:I'm done. Why are you doing this?

[2ducklow]

:doh:I'm done. Why are you doing this?
Cause it's there? the only way to stop hostile chatter is to say nothing, condemning those who resort to hostile chater places one in the same boat. A little somethin I've learned

[HalcyonFire]

God loves a peace maker, but at the same time we do not want to be tricked. Agree to peace, but watch out for conditions.
tricked? you honestly think I'm going to be tricked out of the driving force in my life by people who ferventy DO NOT proselytize?

[HalcyonFire]

So she can sling mud at us who debate but we can't say anything in response? 'derisive and mean" were her words about us that debate. she raked us over the coals and you hurrahed her. but one peep out of me in defence and I'm starting something?
really, there's a WHOLE LOT more going on than simple debate

[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

So she can sling mud at us who debate but we can't say anything in response? 'derisive and mean" were her words about us that debate. she raked us over the coals and you hurrahed her. but one peep out of me in defence and I'm starting something? You forgot 2ducklow enough. And now you got your face slapped off. So now you know the meaning of "Lost Face." I'm just joking with you. Have a nice day.:wave:

[kivi]

kiv asks: Dear LammyPammy: Thank you for your thoughtful analysis of what has been happening. Of course, a lot of emotions have surfaced in this forum. But emotions are not bad. They just are. The question is: 'what is driving the emotions?' I encounter a Mojave Green [a well known and extreme dangerous rattlesnake in my area] on my daily 'constitutional' and I react to it with fear and loathing. Are my emotions 'wrong'? I would think not. And why? Because the Mojave Green is extremely dangerous, fear and loathing are appropriate reactions. Those emotions will save my life by causing me to be very cautious and wear snake boots when I leave the house, stay on well defined and wide dirt tracks, keep a watchful eye on the ground at all times and, if necessary, flee the area when I encounter a Mojave Green.

So, I have meditated on what you wrote, LammyPammny. And I come away unsatisfied. You have described the emotons have have arisen: hatred, frustration and pride. I think your diescription of the emotions is pretty to-the-point. But, you have also indictated that it is a personal failing on the part of the participants that drives those emotions: our wicked hearts.

The reason I am unsatisfied is that I don't find wicked hearts here, for the most part. I find dedicated, intelligent, passionate, committed, thoughtful, loyal, G-d fearing and loving people here. So, I ask myself, if the strong emotions you described [and I agree with you] are very evident in this forum, were do they come from? What do you think?

I don't think that it was the wicked hearts. I think these emotions come from the very real and concrete life circumstances of the particpants. Like the Mojave Green, the cause of the emotions are not illusions or mistakes or caused by internal character defects. They are emotions that are legitimate and come from identifiable and understandable real world sources. I would think that the real life causes of these emotions need to be explored and addressed. Only then can we move on, based on a realistic evalution of what is really happening on this forum.

I truly hope that you will respond. I think this is an important discussion that needs be addressed with care, patience and G-dly love.

With best regards, kivi



I'm glad to see that there are efforts again to undo divisiveness. May you be blessed that keep trying. :thumbsup:

Ugh! It is just terrible here most of the time. I was so excited to see and join this forum. But as I read and read and read I felt so sad and discouraged. Sadness turned to frustrated, frustration turned to embarrassment for both sides of each "debate."

I noticed that the attitudes and accusations started staying with me outside of CF. I felt that I was developing a "bitter root" by reading here. Of all forums on CF I had to give myself boundaries about when and how I read these threads and how much time I spent doing it.

When I was younger I was sometimes treated with prejudice and endured slander and hatred from people who felt they were better for whatever reason. It made me sick to my stomach, literally. I remembered those same feelings reading sometimes. For both sides! Why, would any of us want to do that to each other? Hasn't there been enough of all that in the past few thousand years! So much pride slinging around too. Ugh! :'(

What I have seen has made me ask our Father to forgive us all. IMHO, the judgmental attitudes, level of self-promotion and mud dragging is despicable for those who claim to know our G-d. I also see folks so insecure that they want to force others to say, "Yes, you are superior!" Such brilliant people here and so many open hearts.

I fear what outsiders see here too. Do we look any different from the nightly news when doing this to each other? Saying sorry just to turn around and begin another thread and start the mud slinging madness all over again is not "sorry."

Who ever we are and what ever we seek or need, this thread looks more divisive and mean then all the rest that I have visited. So what's the deal people? We can all follow David's example and ask our Father to examine our hearts and show us what is not good. Why don't we create a thread where we humble ourselves and admit what the L-ord reveals to us about the intentions of our wicked hearts? It can be done as an actual amends for our ungodly attitudes and for the slander we may have commited to our brothers and sisters.

In case I was not careful enough to make this clear, it is not everyone in the JMF (or whatever the name finally became) and it is not every thread, but it is pervasive enough to have made an impact on my spirit and hurt me. I've read that others have been hurt too.

For those of you who now want to rip apart everything that I have said and use it to grandstand, I don't have a lot of time to be in this forum. But I do stop in when I am able to. I continue to come back because my heart is with the Messianic Jewish movement. I continue to pray and hope for this forum. If you want to still say something to me, pm me and spare the public debates. You will do that if you aren't only interested in making yourself seem smarter or better at someone elses expense.

Sincerely,

LammyPammy

[2ducklow]

You forgot 2ducklow enough. And now you got your face slapped off. So now you know the meaning of "Lost Face." THat was mild. I'm not impressed as far as face slapping goes.


I'm just joking with you. Have a nice day.:wave:
I don't get it.

[2ducklow]

really, there's a WHOLE LOT more going on than simple debate
My only point was that She accused people of being derisive, mean, haughty, mud slingers, judgemental, despicable, and an embarassment. So my point is what's the difference. Everyone is accusing everyone else., including her.

then I was accused of bashing and basically told to shut up.

[SGM4HIM]

You started with a good thought.....but it appears not everyone is ready to embrace it after 3 pages and 30 posts. So sad.

[HalcyonFire]

right. oh well. you can bring a horse to water... ya know?

[2ducklow]

now you last two posters are resorting to sarcasm and insults, you're no different than the ones you condem.

[HalcyonFire]

frustration is different than condemnation. really, unless you know more about what's being discussed you can't know that it is said as much in sadness as it is in sarcasm.