Todd Bentley Concerns View These Videos

[Elijah2]

There's an overabundance of video clips online that show Todd Bentley (TB) in all his raging glory, stalking the stage, and smooth and polished.

In the clip below we watched TB bragging about “grounding and pounding” people who have come to him for healing. In another clip he declares that God told him to batter a woman's legs with a baseball bat. He then boasts how he has applied choking moves on sick people who come to him for help. Then there's the story of the "Chinese guy" he "hit so hard that a tooth popped out of his mouth."

From what has been viewed TB's "healing" is brutal; don't take my word for it. Watch the video clips in this article and you'll discover what he said.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=_K8XjObzfXM (http://youtube.com/watch?v=_K8XjObzfXM)


What struck me about this particular clip is that those professing Christians in the audience were laughing and applauding TB blaming God for telling him to inflict pain on those people.

Now I haven’t seen this behaviour ever, and now I ask, “Did the Apostles behave in such an appalling manner? Would Paul or any other minister kick a senior citizen in the head? Did the Apostles or Disciples of our Lord Jesus Christ resorted to grounding and pounding the sick in order to heal them? Could you imagine any of them choking someone and saying that God told him to do it?

In the next clip is an eleven-year-old boy with Cerebral Palsey who cannot walk without a walker and he had dreamed of running around the baseball diamond. Now the boy sincerely believes he's been healed; yet he struggles to speak as he tries to relay his “healing” experience to the audience.

Throughout that length of time his mother is holding and supporting the boy’s shaky body preventing him from falling. It’s obvious that the boy cannot stand alone, let alone run. And then TB tells the boy that he's a “healing in progress”. Then before the boy knows what hit him, BAM, he's pushed to the floor.

I felt like weeping, my heart was heavy as I viewed this clip.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=dcqmShgqbw8&feature=related (http://youtube.com/watch?v=dcqmShgqbw8&feature=related)

I ask you, “What did Jesus do?”

" Then he [Jesus] said to the paralytic, 'Get up, take your mat and go home.' And the man got up and went home" (Mat 9:6-7).

What about Peter?

" As Peter traveled about the country, he went to visit the saints in Lydda. There he found a man named Aeneas, a paralytic who had been bedridden for eight years. 'Aeneas,' Peter said to him, 'Jesus Christ heals you. Get up and take care of your mat.' Immediately Aeneas got up. All those who lived in Lydda and Sharon saw him and turned to the Lord" (Acts 9:32-35).

We need to ask the obvious question, “Does Satan have the power to heal?” Yes, he gives an appearance that a healing is taking place, but it's a counterfeit, and only temporary.

Our Lord Jesus Christ performs miraculous signs and wonders. And the apostles performed signs and wonders and miracles by the power of the Holy Spirit. But, Sorcerers perform “miraculous lying signs and wonders” that lead people astray and keep them from the truth. These lying signs and wonders may appear miraculous, but are they lasting; now that is the question? Satan has the power to deceive, “even the elect, if that were possible”.

Faith healers use social emotional and psychological manipulation to get people to to change their behavior, their attitude, even their morals. In a crowded setting people are more susceptible to manipulation tactics. This is known as peer pressure. Responding to peer pressure is part of human nature.

Is This A Move of God?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWG80y3SYzk&NR=1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWG80y3SYzk&NR=1)

You have been warned by this concerned pastor, and please see his concerns for Christians.

Is TB devil Possessed?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtSK9TyduR4&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtSK9TyduR4&feature=related)

Great testimony---but, and does our Lord tell another Christian to lie and to do those embarrassing things. Now come on, lets get in touch with Spiritual Reality?

[Zugzwang]

No disrespect intended, and God knows i appreciate you sharinng your zeal, but i posted this same thing almost 2 weeks ago. so lets get the obligatory "answers" out of the way, shall we?

"Didn't Jesus spit in ppl's eyes? Ok then."
"who are you to limit God?"
"The tape was edited, i'll wait for the unedited version thanks." (Doesn't mater WOTM explained it was to save time, nor does it matter you can see the same mountain dew bottle on the podium, in almost every scene, it's STILL edited, ie: tainted. Because you know you heresy hunters are all so despicable.

"If it's of God, it'll last, if not, it won't." (junk logic and biblically inaccurate. Tell that to the anti-christ during the tribulation)

I just wanted to give my hats off, and t hank you anyway, despite the flood of "excuses" you'll get for it regardless.

Be blessed.

[Elijah2]

No disrespect intended, and God knows i appreciate you sharinng your zeal, but i posted this same thing almost 2 weeks ago. so lets get the obligatory "answers" out of the way, shall we?

"Didn't Jesus spit in ppl's eyes? Ok then."
"who are you to limit God?"
"The tape was edited, i'll wait for the unedited version thanks." (Doesn't mater WOTM explained it was to save time, nor does it matter you can see the same mountain dew bottle on the podium, in almost every scene, it's STILL edited, ie: tainted. Because you know you heresy hunters are all so despicable.

"If it's of God, it'll last, if not, it won't." (junk logic and biblically inaccurate. Tell that to the anti-christ during the tribulation)

I just wanted to give my hats off, and t hank you anyway, despite the flood of "excuses" you'll get for it regardless.

Be blessed.
Thanks, as I have only just viewed those videos, and I cannot believe the excuses and reasons that are given by those who are seduced and deceived.

I seen the mess that TB has left behind in Australia.

Be blessed, in Jesus' Name.

[Alpine]

I watched the videos and honestly I don't see the point of posting them. I don't see him knocking around anyone.

[probinson]

I don't normally double post, but since the OP thought it was necessary to put this post in 2 different places, I thought it just as important to respond to it in both places...
________________________________________

FTR, Grisly Adams message up there is one of FEAR.

Apparently he believes that God wants to destroy you, and He has sent this delusion to test you.

He says it's "VERY DANGEROUS" at least a dozen or more times.

He attacks IHOP, Bill Johnson, Kansas City, Toronto, Brownsville, and basically anyone that he personally disagrees with and calls it a "warning".

He then gives a shout out to Paul Washer and compares the testimony of Paul Washer to that of Todd Bentley. ...

There is SO much manipulation and fear in that clip it's almost "scary". Not about the revival, but that people will go to such lengths to attack anything that they disagree with.

There really is no substance to the clip. Just empty accusations of how the revival is a "delusion", but nothing to really back that statement.

There is, however, false accusation that no repentance is taking place at Lakeland, which seems to be a recurrent theme with the attackers. Though if you've spent even the smallest amount of time actually watching the revival instead of digging through YouTube, you'd see just how false that statement is.

I urge you to watch the "warning" posted above. You'll see just how far people are willing to go to prove their point, and bring even more division to the church body.

[FaultySurplus]

How about this one? God tells Todd he don't need to worry about a message of Jesus. It's the message of the angels and of the supernatural that is lacking.
[/URL]

[URL]http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=lKA_X1zxOQc&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/v/lKA_X1zxOQc&hl=en)

If someone popped up on this forum and posted these words, there would be a race among the most of the people here to produce the appropriate Biblical passages of where that OP would be wrong, but not so in this case. People just need to believe in him for whatever reason.

[probinson]

How about this one? God tells Todd he don't need to worry about a message of Jesus. It's the message of the angels and of the supernatural that is lacking.
Not exactly...

What He said is that God told him that the people ALREADY believe in Jesus, but the church doesn't believe in the supernatural.

So let me ask you a question. Do you come into this Christians-only forum and preach that we need Jesus every day? Of course not. Why? Because we all believe in Jesus.

[FaultySurplus]

Excuse me? You don't find any concern in someone saying God told him he needs to teach the doctrine of angels over the doctrine of Jesus?

Exactly how much Jesus is enough then? Let me know so I can get to that point and move on to something "new", as Todd states.

Take a few moments and think about it.

[probinson]

Excuse me? You don't find any concern in someone saying God told him he needs to teach the doctrine of angels over the doctrine of Jesus?

Exactly how much Jesus is enough then? Let me know so I can get to that point and move on to something "new", as Todd states.

Take a few moments and think about it.
If you believe what you just said, then I expect to see you come onto this forum every day and tell us how we need Jesus. Do it every day. Tell us all about how we need salvation.

Why would you do that?

And the messaage of that short little clip was not that he needed to teach the doctrine of angels over the doctrine of Jesus. Listen to it. Better yet, go to the link in the other thread to FreshFire's website and read about how the end goal is to draw people to Jesus.

If you really listen this is EXACTLY what he says...

"The church has no problem believing in Jesus, what we don't believe in is the supernatural..."

IOW, he's talking about the church, people who are saved, people who already believe in Jesus.

Not only that, it's mighty difficult to understand what the overall message was in a less-than-two-minute clip from a meeting that was likely at least 4 hours in length.

[~RENEE~]

Elijah.

I know you have appointed yourself over us.

But I have a newsflash I have a friend we have been friends for years. I have watched him grow up I know his heart is after God and the things of God. I know him well enough that I trust him.

I don't know you at all.

Todd is a friend of this friend who is also a missionary in Canada. D happens to like Todd. I trust him. Not you. Thank you sir. But you are NOT over me and do not have the authority to tell me anything.

[charityagape]

I just keep seeing all these "warners" as those crazy men wearing sandwich boards about the end of the world and ringing a bell to get the attention of passer's by. One, I'm not afraid of the end of the world. Two, I just don't take those sandwich board guys seriously nor do I take internet "watchman) seriously either.

[Zugzwang]

Elijah.

I know you have appointed yourself over us.

But I have a newsflash I have a friend we have been friends for years. I have watched him grow up I know his heart is after God and the things of God. I know him well enough that I trust him.

I don't know you at all.

Todd is a friend of this friend who is also a missionary in Canada. D happens to like Todd. I trust him. Not you. Thank you sir. But you are NOT over me and do not have the authority to tell me anything.

First, Elijah has a DUTY, as well as anyone else who is saved, when seeing an error in a brother to do this. Lev. 19:17. You shall surely rebuke your neighbour, and not bear sin because of him. This is Christ’s own rule, Matt. 18:15. Go, and tell him his fault between you and him alone. We are also to receive reproof from our brethren when it is necessary. Let the righteous smite me; it shall be a kindness... Psalm 141:5.

[~RENEE~]

First, Elijah has a DUTY, as well as anyone else who is saved, when seeing an error in a brother to do this. Lev. 19:17. You shall surely rebuke your neighbour, and not bear sin because of him. This is Christ’s own rule, Matt. 18:15. Go, and tell him his fault between you and him alone. We are also to receive reproof from our brethren when it is necessary. Let the righteous smite me; it shall be a kindness... Psalm 141:5.
Notice that scripture said to go to the person you have the problem with?

He is coming us gossiping not going to Todd.

[charityagape]

He has a duty to go posting fear and criticism all over the internet? He certainly has a legal right to post his opinion............but a Christian duty....please.

[probinson]

First, Elijah has a DUTY, as well as anyone else who is saved, when seeing an error in a brother to do this. Lev. 19:17. You shall surely rebuke your neighbour, and not bear sin because of him. This is Christ’s own rule, Matt. 18:15. Go, and tell him his fault between you and him alone. We are also to receive reproof from our brethren when it is necessary. Let the righteous smite me; it shall be a kindness... Psalm 141:5.
Elijah's DUTY has long since been fulfilled.

Now it's up to the Holy Spirit.

The problem most warners have is that they want to take the Holy Spirit's job.

That's an error that is very concerning.

[Zugzwang]

If you believe what you just said, then I expect to see you come onto this forum every day and tell us how we need Jesus. Do it every day. Tell us all about how we need salvation.

Why would you do that?

And the messaage of that short little clip was not that he needed to teach the doctrine of angels over the doctrine of Jesus. Listen to it. Better yet, go to the link in the other thread to FreshFire's website and read about how the end goal is to draw people to Jesus.

If you really listen this is EXACTLY what he says...

"The church has no problem believing in Jesus, what we don't believe in is the supernatural..."

IOW, he's talking about the church, people who are saved, people who already believe in Jesus.

Not only that, it's mighty difficult to understand what the overall message was in a less-than-two-minute clip from a meeting that was likely at least 4 hours in length.

I'm sorry, but i have to cry foul here. what TB ORIGINALLY posted, was that God told him that "they have to believe in the angel.." And they don't believe in the supernatural."
The reference to the angel has been taken off the site, if you're gonna quote TB, than do the unedited version that we remember, k?

second, bout the supernatural?

EXCUSE ME?!

Charismatics don't believe in the supernatural? I have to say that the God that said THAT to a charismatic preacher in leiu of Toronto, KCP, Brownsville, "speaking your walk into existence, etc etc ad nauseum..is NOT God.

God may tell Baptists that, i would believe that to a degree, or Presbyterians, etc etc. But charismatics? That's junk. Personal foul, flag on the play, i don't buy it.

TB is preaching to charismatics, pentecostals, LIKE-MINDED PEOPLE, and to declare that they don't believe "in the supernatural" is something CLEARLY God wouldn't tell these kind of people because it's stupid! and God is NOT stupid, tyvm.

This whole argument about the revised TB page is intellectually dishonest at best, and outright deceiftful at worst.

[probinson]

I'm sorry, but i have to cry foul here. what TB ORIGINALLY posted, was that God told him that "they have to believe in the angel.." And they don't believe in the supernatural."
The reference to the angel has been taken off the site, if you're gonna quote TB, than do the unedited version that we remember, k?
If you'd stop ranting and accusing for 2 seconds and actually read what I wrote, you'd realize that I was quoting what TB said in the video posted above.

second, bout the supernatural?

EXCUSE ME?!

Charismatics don't believe in the supernatural?
Apparently not.

It would seem that many Charismatics in this forum SAY they believe in the supernatural, but they also believe that the things that are happening with Todd Bentley are a "delusion". So my question is, where is the supernatural happening if you believe in it? Every time someone posts a testimony of the supernatural, one of the warners comes in and in not so many words calls the person with a testimony a liar or deceived.

Therefore, the genuineness of the profession in the belief of the supernatural is belied by the incessant cynicism displayed in the postings.

[probinson]

2 Timothy 3:5 (AMP)
For [although] they hold a form of piety (true religion), they deny and reject and are strangers to the power of it [their conduct belies the genuineness of their profession]. Avoid [all] such people [turn away from them].

[Ajax 777]

Well, you may not see past your perception of the pastor's likeness to "Grizzly Adams,"
but the words he shared were right on, without it being about appearances.

The fruit from this revival and indeed, this entire movement, is rotten.
It reeks of death and coming judgment.

Man has put man on the throne, and left Jesus outside.
You say it's the Holy Spirit's job to warn you, and that we should just shut up.
How do you know you haven't already told Him the same thing?

Men are becoming more and more hostile to sound doctrine,
and less inclined to believe the truth. The spirit of error is hard at work in so many these days...
people are too spoiled and lazy in their hearts to see the need for vigilant repentance,
taking an "instant salvation" approach to their walk.
If we exalt ourselves, we will be abased; there is no changing that.

Fear of the Lord is a fountain of life to keep one's foot from the evil snare.
Like it or not, folks, the word clearly declares that the Lord Himself
will send a strong delusion to cause those who do not see a need to stay awake to believe a lie.

This whole revival is like one big reality show, with little segues at moments, that reveal how dangerous a condition many people's hearts were already in. And yes, before you boomerang it back at me, it makes me frightened for my own spiritual condition, as well. I think every last one of us, myself included, are all only a heartbeat away from Hell. We need to be exponentially more serious than our contemporary, modern American mindset seems capable of being anymore. Kind of like during the Bay of Pigs.

Unfortunately, it is showing that what is truly in the vast majority of people's hearts to be....well...not Him.

He is holy.

This thing is so worldly it makes me sick to my stomach.

I don't think myself a watchman, but I know what I see.
With the exception of the few things I was incensed by in your words, Pete, I am only sharing this to voice my otherwise unwanted two cents. This is just my testimony; I am not going to try to tell any of you what to believe. So none of you should read it like that.

[Alpine]

What is the obsession with knocking Todd Bentley? Serious question...

If he bugs you ... have your say and move along...

These videos are a joke as far as I'm concerned. As Pete said, it's a 2 minute clip. I've watched entire services and you get a true sense of what is going on when you watch the full service.

[Ajax 777]

I've watched entire services and you get a true sense of what is going on when you watch the full service.

Or, perhaps you become so tainted by the drunkenness, you get so exposed to the hype and caught up in the excitement of the crowd sensation, like marinated meat, your perception becomes distorted by it...?

Darkness is a cumulative thing, I've found, much like time spent in study of the Word and in prayer. The more you do it, the deeper it sinks into you.

Just an alternate point-of-view, if you will. Only shared for your consideration.

[charityagape]

If you don't agree with me you must be deceived. Cause God told me so.

[Alpine]

Or, perhaps you become so tainted by the drunkenness, you get so exposed to the hype and caught up in the excitement of the crowd sensation, like marinated meat, your perception becomes distorted by it...?

Darkness is a cumulative thing, I've found, much like time spent in study of the Word and in prayer.


Huh?

[Ajax 777]

If you don't agree with me you must be deceived. Cause God told me so.

No, nobody's deceived, because we're all so much smarter than they were in Jesus's day. Cause YOU told me so.

[pinetree]

ok,so far no one has been able to disprove Todd using scripture.

By what Spirit do ALL the healings,salvations,and glorious testimonies,that bring glory to Jesus come from?

[Ajax 777]

Huh?

Translated: the more wine you chug, the more soused you become,
and the bigger hangover you wake up in a strange place with,
if indeed you wake up at all.

[Ajax 777]

ok,so far no one has been able to disprove Todd using scripture.

No, I honestly have to say, I feel as though many here already have...
Perhaps...maybe, so far, you haven't been able to see it?


By what Spirit do ALL the healings,salvations,and glorious testimonies,that bring glory to Jesus come from?

What spirit? Why, the angel, Emma, of course.

I fail to see how Jesus, at least the One that preached the Sermon on the Mount,
is in any way glorified by this farce of vainglory and cheesy theatrics.
But, again, I'm just a blind fool who would rather walk by faith than by sight,
even though I stumble like a drunkard in a mosh pit while trying to do so.

[pinetree]

[/size]

No, I honestly have to say, I feel as though many here already have...
Perhaps...maybe, so far, you haven't been able to see it?


[size=4]

What spirit? Why, the angel, Emma, of course.


Witty about emma,but you did not answer the question.

Please do..by what spirit are the healings and salvations, that glorify Jesus being done?

[pinetree]

When all the miracles were unfolding in the old and new testament..

And someone said ..I dont see it in the bible!

What could all of the saints that did see miracles back than unfolding right before their eyes answer?

They did not see it in the bible either.

Than you Ajax,I am like the saints in scripture then..

I don,t see, as you put it,the verses either to disprove Todd.:D

[Deba]

I seen the mess that TB has left behind in Australia.

Care to elaborate?

[Ajax 777]

Witty about emma,but you did not answer the question.

Please do..by what spirit are the healings and salvations, that glorify Jesus being done?



Honestly, pinetree, I have not seen any part of this thing which genuinely glorified what our Lord endured for us...just a shameless display of how the people of this world will fall for anything.

There is nothing at this revival which addresses the truth of our sin, which is why He went to the cross for us in the first place. That is why He came...that is why He died. That is why He rose again.

Could anyone explain to me how gold fillings, gold dust, mysterious feathers, and angels of mammon (a master which we cannot serve while serving Christ) point to that, or are there any videos ANYWHERE on the 'Net that show Todd preaching on how wretched and sinful we are, the need for repentance, and the judgment that is to come? I know there are plenty of videos of him doing "miracle" after supposed "miracle," but this is not what Jesus Christ is about. When Jesus did a miracle, it is because He did what He saw the Father doing, and He demonstrated Who He was. Nobody who saw these things questioned whether they were for real or not, though many questioned Who He was, and most would not believe.

Now tell me, is Who He is being taught by this revival in your eyes?

Or are people just coming for the great show, to have their desire to be part of it, to say they were there, and such?

All I know is that if you want a closer relationship with Jesus Christ, it is not found by going here or there, but by seeking Him with all your heart right where you're at.

It does not matter if He's in Lakeland or not. If He is not first and foremost in your heart, you will not find Him either at Lakeland, though Todd Bentley will tell you otherwise.

[Amaryllismayfly]

There are a few of you who post here who truly scare me. The way you talk of other Christians you don't agree with reminds me of a scary scripture "...in fact, a time is coming when anyone who kills you will think he is offering a service to God." John 16:2 Even the angels don't slander the enemy like words I have read here.

I just want to encourage my brothers and sisters who will hear me~ try not to be baited. Try and love first, even if it means loving by not responding. Be encouraged because the same zealous religeous attitude that attacked Jesus is attacking us. "If they persecute me they will persecute you also." john 15:20 Christianity always persecutes it's followers, so that the enemy can destroy Jesus' promise that the world will know us by our love for one another. As crazy as this sounds, forgive them because they really don't understand. The same flesh is reacting on both sides.

[charityagape]

NYWHERE on the 'Net that show Todd preaching on how wretched and sinful we are, the need for repentance, and the judgment that is to come?

[pinetree]

Honestly, pinetree, I have not seen any part of this thing which genuinely glorified what our Lord endured for us...just a shameless display of how the people of this world will fall for anything.

There is nothing at this revival which addresses the truth of our sin, which is why He went to the cross for us in the first place. That is why He came...that is why He died. That is why He rose again.

Could anyone explain to me how gold fillings, gold dust, mysterious feathers, and angels of mammon (a master which we cannot serve while serving Christ) point to that, or are there any videos ANYWHERE on the 'Net that show Todd preaching on how wretched and sinful we are, the need for repentance, and the judgment that is to come? I know there are plenty of videos of him doing "miracle" after supposed "miracle," but this is not what Jesus Christ is about. When Jesus did a miracle, it is because He did what He saw the Father doing, and He demonstrated Who He was. Nobody who saw these things questioned whether they were for real or not, though many questioned Who He was, and most would not believe.

Now tell me, is Who He is being taught by this revival in your eyes?

Or are people just coming for the great show, to have their desire to be part of it, to say they were there, and such?

All I know is that if you want a closer relationship with Jesus Christ, it is not found by going here or there, but by seeking Him with all your heart right where you're at.

It does not matter if He's in Lakeland or not. If He is not first and foremost in your heart, you will not find Him either at Lakeland, though Todd Bentley will tell you otherwise.
By what spirit are the salvations and healings being done??

[charityagape]

Did Christ not come to set the captives free? So why preach about the prison we're free of?

[LaffyTaffy]

Well, you may not see past your perception of the pastor's likeness to "Grizzly Adams,"
but the words he shared were right on, without it being about appearances.

The fruit from this revival and indeed, this entire movement, is rotten. It reeks of death and coming judgment.

Man has put man on the throne, and left Jesus outside.
You say it's the Holy Spirit's job to warn you, and that we should just shut up. How do you know you haven't already told Him the same thing?

Men are becoming more and more hostile to sound doctrine, and less inclined to believe the truth.
The spirit of error is hard at work in so many these days...
people are too spoiled and lazy in their hearts to see the need for vigilant repentance, taking an "instant salvation" approach to their walk. If we exalt oursleves, we will be abased; there is no changing that.

Fear of the Lord is a fountain of life to keep one's foot from the evil snare. Like it or not, folks, the word clearly declares that the Lord Himself will send a strong delusion to cause those who do not see a need to stay awake to believe a lie.

This whole revival is like one big reality show, with little segues at moments, that reveal how dangerous a condition many people's hearts were already in. And yes, before you boomerang it back at me, it makes me frightened for my own spiritual condition, as well. I think every last one of us, myself included, are all only a heartbeat away from Hell. We need to be exponentially more serious than our contemporary, modern American mindset seems capable of being anymore. Kind of like during the Bay of Pigs.

Unfortunately, it is showing that what is truly in the vast majority of people's hearts to be....well...not Him.

He is holy.

This thing is so worldly it makes me sick to my stomach.

I don't think myself a watchman, but I know what I see.
With the exception of the few things I was incensed by in your words, Pete, I am only sharing this to voice my otherwise unwanted two cents. This is just my testimony; I am not going to try to tell any of you what to believe. So none of you should read it like that.
:thumbsup:

[charityagape]

I don't think myself a watchman, but I know what I see.
With the exception of the few things I was incensed by in your words, Pete, I am only sharing this to voice my otherwise unwanted two cents. This is just my testimony; I am not going to try to tell any of you what to believe. So none of you should read it like that.

Well I'm glad you don't see yourself as a watchman and that this is all just your personal opinion, so from now on I'll read it like that; your personal opinion.

[LaffyTaffy]

Well shiver me timbers.

[pinetree]

Ajax777 quote..in green.

Or are people just coming for the great show, to have their desire to be part of it, to say they were there, and such?

how does ajax777 know what is in the heart of the saints at the revival..?

Maybe sick saints are hurting,and praise God,they are being healed!

maybe ajax thinks it is a show,is he projecting?:)

[pinetree]

Well shiver me timbers.
you are not allowed to speak here,till you clean up your skid marks!

[pinetree]

Attention ajax777....:wave::wave::wave:


By what spirit are the salvations and healings being done??

[LaffyTaffy]

you are not allowed to speak here,till you clean up your skid marks!^_^

The real question is - how does pinetree know so much about my skidmarks! :o

you sent the monkey to watch me didn't you. Oh yes, I'm in your head now.

Laffy knows. . . Laffy knows. . .

[Ajax 777]

how does ajax777 know what is in the heart of the saints at the revival..?

"By their fruits ye shall know them. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but the corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit."

- Matthew 7:16-17


Maybe sick saints are hurting,and praise God,they are being healed!

On the flip side: maybe blind sinners are being deceived, and the flock set upon by ravenous wolves...yet praise Jesus, through Whom these same sinners may yet be redeemed by God's lovingkindness and measureless mercy, if they repent and return to Him!


maybe ajax thinks it is a show,is he projecting?:)

Or maybe Ajax thinks he sees reason to be alarmed?

"Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravening wolves."

- Matthew 7:15

[pinetree]

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"By their fruits ye shall know them. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but the corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit."

- Matthew 7:16-17




On the flip side: maybe blind sinners are being deceived, and the flock set upon by ravenous wolves...yet praise Jesus, through Whom these same sinners may yet be redeemed by God's lovingkindness and measureless mercy, if they repent and return to Him!




Or maybe Ajax thinks he sees reason to be alarmed?

[FONT=Georgia]"Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravening wolves."

- Matthew 7:15
[SIZE=7]By what spirit are the salvations and healings,that glorify Jesus, being done??:):)

[Ajax 777]

[SIZE=7]By what spirit are the salvations and healings,that glorify Jesus, being done??:):)


I haven't seen any salvations or healings in Lakeland,
so you'll have to play this game with somebody else.
I'm glad you find it all so amusing.

[pinetree]

I haven't seen any salvations or healings in Lakeland,
so you'll have to play this game with somebody else.
I'm glad you find it all so amusing.
why did you edit your first reply..it was funny..:D

So becasue YOU have not seen it,it does not exist??

[charityagape]

I haven't seen any salvations or healings in Lakeland,
so you'll have to play this game with somebody else.
I'm glad you find it all so amusing.

So all the people who say they've been saved or healed at lakeland are lying?

[LaffyTaffy]

[SIZE=7]By what spirit are the salvations and healings,that glorify Jesus, being done??:):)


Looks like they glorify angels more than Jesus. . .just my (very) humble opinion.

Even the possessed girl pointed out that Paul directed people to Jesus, and that appears as being glorifying to God, yet Paul saw the spirit for what it was.

When the Anti-christ actually does come on the scene, people will probably say he glorifies Jesus, too. Funny thing, the word we translate as "anti-christ" is actually "pseudo" christ (which is why some translations say "false" instead of "anti"). "Pseudo" seems to indicate something that closely resembles, not abhorrently different in an obvious sense.

So, yeah, I can see why people question the spirit driving TB.

[LaffyTaffy]

oh yeah and since you're a christian you still have to love me! :D

[Ajax 777]

Like Pete pointed out earlier, I have done my DUTY.
Sorry for interrupting your thread here.

[Alpine]

Translated: the more wine you chug, the more sowsed you become,
and the bigger hangover you wake up in a strange place with,
if indeed you wake up at all.

So, are you saying that I sit in front of the computer, drinking, and watch Tod Bentley?

[probinson]

I think every last one of us, myself included, are all only a heartbeat away from Hell.
:eek:

Wow. Fear, uncertaintiy and doubt. The message of the "Gospel" (i.e. Good news)...

Unreal.

[Watchman4hm]

The tares all think they are wheat..Someone has to be right, and wrong..;)

[LaffyTaffy]

:scratch:

[Ajax 777]

:eek:

Wow. Fear, uncertaintiy and doubt. The message of the "Gospel" (i.e. Good news)...

Unreal.

Sort of like your pride, slander, and delusion?

Fear?

"Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom."

Uncertainty?

"Lean not to your own understanding."

Doubt?

"Let God be found true, and each man found a liar."

[probinson]

:scratch:
Here, let me help.

The self-appointed watchmen are wheat.

Anyone who dares to disagree with them are tares.

See how simple? :P

[LaffyTaffy]

The tares all think they are wheat..Someone has to be right, and wrong..;)
:thumbsup:

Yeppers.

[GodsGlory]

Whether the REVIVAL itself is of God, only God knows the whole picture.

But what WE can know, which is truly manifest, is that people seem to feel very threatened that anyone would dare ask questions about Todd Bentley's revival.

What should happen, instead of the anger and the fear, is that people who think the revival is of God should be in faith and confidence, and say "let the critics criticize, for God is in Lakeland". The more angry and railing a person becomes by defending a supposed move of God, the more they reveal their own insecurities and their own fears that the supposed move of God really isn't a move of God at all.

The better position to take is "Well, I believe this is of God, so it can withstand any attack, either of flesh or of Satan", and just rest in that simple confidence.

But when real evidence is brought to bear that honestly impacts the legitimacy of the revival, and the followers of the revival refuse to even consider that evidence, and when they further attack and condemn those who do have the questions, their own unwillingness to listen to another person's point of view reveals much more about THEMSELVES than they are trying to reveal about another by calling that person names.

The biggest red flag to me about this revival is the unwillingness of the revival's followers to open their eyes and their ears - the very thing they demand of those who oppose the revival.

At least those who oppose the revival are willing to listen to the other side - much more so than those who follow it.

[LaffyTaffy]

So, are you saying that I sit in front of the computer, drinking, and watch Tod Bentley?

well I don't know about you, or about watching Todd Bentley, but do often wonder how many we speak with in these forums are doing the "sit in front of the computer, drinking" or who knows what else. . . :-0

[probinson]

Whether the REVIVAL itself is of God, only God knows the whole picture.

But what WE can know, which is truly manifest, is that people seem to feel very threatened that anyone would dare ask questions about Todd Bentley's revival.

What should happen, instead of the anger and the fear, is that people who think the revival is of God should be in faith and confidence, and say "let the critics criticize, for God is in Lakeland". The more angry and railing a person becomes by defending a supposed move of God, the more they reveal their own insecurities and their own fears that the supposed move of God really isn't a move of God at all.

The better position to take is "Well, I believe this is of God, so it can withstand any attack, either of flesh or of Satan", and just rest in that simple confidence.

But when real evidence is brought to bear that honestly impacts the legitimacy of the revival, and the followers of the revival refuse to even consider that evidence, and when they further attack and condemn those who do have the questions, their own unwillingness to listen to another person's point of view reveals much more about THEMSELVES than they are trying to reveal about another by calling that person names.

The biggest red flag to me about this revival is the unwillingness of the revival's followers to open their eyes and their ears - the very thing they demand of those who oppose the revival.

At least those who oppose the revival are willing to listen to the other side - much more so than those who follow it.
Wow.

Take a look at the extremely long diatribes that have been posted by those who oppose the revival over the past few weeks, and then apply your logic about fear and insecurities based upon the sheer number and length of posts against the revival...

[probinson]

At least those who oppose the revival are willing to listen to the other side - much more so than those who follow it.
Holy cow!

Either you haven't read the posts for and against the revival, or you and I have been reading different forums.

[Ajax 777]

Take a look at the extremely long diatribes that have been posted by those who oppose the revival over the past few weeks, and then apply your logic about fear and insecurities based upon the sheer number and length of posts against the revival...

If you want to go by numbers, Pete, then you shoot yourself in the foot,
because outside of these forums, there seem to be far more people who
follow after this "revival" than question it...

[LaffyTaffy]

Holy cow!


Where? who shot the cow? how many holes?


FOUR!

:holy:

[probinson]

Where? who shot the cow? how many holes?


FOUR!

:holy:
MOO!

:blush:

[LaffyTaffy]

shoot yourself in the foot
oh noes, now holy feet, too!

"Therefore My people shall know My name;
Therefore they shall know in that day
That I am He who speaks:

‘ Behold, it is I.’”

How beautiful upon the mountains
Are the feet of him who brings good news,
Who proclaims peace,
Who brings glad tidings of good things,
Who proclaims salvation,
Who says to Zion,
“ Your God reigns!”
Your watchmen shall lift up their voices,
With their voices they shall sing together;
For they shall see eye to eye
When the LORD brings back Zion.

[Watchman4hm]

Here, let me help.

The self-appointed watchmen are wheat.

Anyone who dares to disagree with them are tares.

See how simple? :P


Your a Watchman now?..lol..sounds like you have beamites ;)

[charityagape]

I'm a wheat, Ima wheat, Ima wheat, I'm a wheat, I'm a wheat. And I have no fear that I'm not. And I'm NOT a heartbeat from hell, thank you Jesus.

[probinson]

Your a Watchman now?..lol..sounds like you have beamites ;)
Yessir. I'm a watchmen for the watchmen. :D

Now all we need is a watchmen for the watchmen that are watching the watchmen, and we'll be all set.

:P

[Watchman4hm]

well I don't know about you, or about watching Todd Bentley, but do often wonder how many we speak with in these forums are doing the "sit in front of the computer, drinking" or who knows what else. . . :-0


Some are drunken with the pride of their own ramblings. They think they are experts at everything..Self proclaimed Theologins of nothingness:)

[probinson]

I'm a wheat, Ima wheat, Ima wheat, I'm a wheat, I'm a wheat. And I have no fear that I'm not. And I'm NOT a heartbeat from hell, thank you Jesus.
Sounds like a great idea for a song!

:cool:

[charityagape]

Originally Posted by Ajax 777 http://img.christianforums.com/style/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=47566794#post47566794) I think every last one of us, myself included, are all only a heartbeat away from Hell.


I cry for you Ajax that this is how you see the gospel.

[Watchman4hm]

Yessir. I'm a watchmen for the watchmen. :D

Now all we need is a watchmen for the watchmen that are watching the watchmen, and we'll be all set.

:P

You wouldnt know a watchman if you saw one Pete...lol

[charityagape]

Sounds like a great idea for a song!

:cool:

lol:clap: Ima wheat, ima wheat, ima wheat..........yeah I could sing that.

[charityagape]

You wouldnt know a watchman if you saw one Pete...lol


Well wouldn't that be something to give thanks about.

[probinson]

You wouldnt know a watchman if you saw one Pete...lol
Sure I do (and have). Watchmen speak with the voice of the Father, which is quite recognizable.

The problem is, most watchmen have a strange, peculiar voice, and I can't follow the voice of a stranger, no matter what title people give themselves.

[LaffyTaffy]

Sounds like a great idea for a song!

:cool:

Scarey part is, it kinda reminded me of that Alanis Morisette song. . .uh, the one I can't post because the language is really baaaaaad.

[Watchman4hm]

Well wouldn't that be something to give thanks about.


The cowboy was quite distraught when his horse wouldn't drink the water. he knew the journey was long. He drank the water, filled his canteen and set out across the desert. He tried and tried but the horse wouldnt drink because he had no clue what was ahead of him..Some people are like that..They think they are smug and know where they are going..You can lead a horse to water, but you cant make him drink;)

[probinson]

Well, I just had this conversation with my wife....

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h128/petesarah/duty_calls.png

...and then I realized just how ridiculous this whole topic had become, so for now, I bid you all good night.

:D

[Ajax 777]

I cry for you Ajax that this is how you see the gospel.

This is not how I see the Gospel,
but the reason FOR the Gospel.

The good news is that He died for us,
to pay the ransom for us,
by becoming sin for us.
Rotten, stinking, filthy, selfish, evil us.
So, the good news is that though we deserve Hell,
we have the hope of eternal life in Heaven with Jesus
instead of the just punishment which we all deserve.

Eternal life in Heaven, reigning with Jesus Christ, Whom we love?
Sounds like good news to me, ESPECIALLY when you consider that we all deserve Hell.

"For he who is forgiven little will love little,
but he who is forgiven much will love much."

[charityagape]

Well, I just had this conversation with my wife....

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h128/petesarah/duty_calls.png

...and then I realized just how ridiculous this whole topic had become, so for now, I bid you all good night.

:D



OH that's awesome. :D:D What'd be important is if someone was RIGHT on the internet (right being a matter of perspective).

[charityagape]

The cowboy was quite distraught when his horse wouldn't drink the water. he knew the journey was long. He drank the water, filled his canteen and set out across the desert. He tried and tried but the horse wouldnt drink because he had no clue what was ahead of him..Some people are like that..They think they are smug and know where they are going..You can lead a horse to water, but you cant make him drink;)


:DDon't worry I don't need a canteen of water and neither do you, we have living water within us brother and be glad of that, so no matter what desert we cross we won't die of thirst.

[LaffyTaffy]

Back in the day, when working as a cashier, I had to handle a lot of money. I got used to handling it so much, that even though we had these special markers that would show whether the money was counterfeit or not, after handling real money for so long, it became obvious even before marking the bills which ones were counterfeit.

I suppose it could be true of the opposite. If I had handled nothing but counterfeit, and was taught that it was the true money, I would have called the true money counterfeit.

Hmmm, and here all this time I thought my days as a cashier were a waste. Whodda thunk it?


:doh: coulda had a v-8!

[Watchman4hm]

Sure I do (and have). Watchmen speak with the voice of the Father, which is quite recognizable.

The problem is, most watchmen have a strange, peculiar voice, and I can't follow the voice of a stranger, no matter what title people give themselves.


Funny, Jesus said the very same thing in John 8:42----
Someone has the right Jesus, and someone hears their father who they think is Jesus..Thats what tares are..;)..(I didnt say you were a tare so dont go there)..The Jesus being preached now is not Jesus, but self..Jesus wants us to be rich, etc etc etc..Wrong interpretation of scripture = WRONG JESUS PERIOD..

[charityagape]

This is not how I see the Gospel,
but the reason FOR the Gospel.

The good news is that He died for us,
to pay the ransom for us,
by becoming sin for us.
Rotten, stinking, filthy, selfish, evil us.
So, the good news is that though we deserve Hell,
we have the hope of eternal life in Heaven with Jesus
instead of the just punishment which we all deserve.

Eternal life in Heaven, reigning with Jesus Christ, Whom we love?
Sounds like good news to me, ESPECIALLY when you consider that we all deserve Hell.

"For he who is forgiven little will love little,
but he who is forgiven much will love much."

But now He is in you and you are in Him so you're no longer a heartbeat from hell and neither is anyone else who call's upon His name.

[Deba]

The cowboy was quite distraught when his horse wouldn't drink the water. he knew the journey was long. He drank the water, filled his canteen and set out across the desert. He tried and tried but the horse wouldnt drink because he had no clue what was ahead of him..Some people are like that..They think they are smug and know where they are going..You can lead a horse to water, but you cant make him drink;)


Maybe the horse knew the water was poisonous.

[charityagape]

Back in the day, when working as a cashier, I had to handle a lot of money. I got used to handling it so much, that even though we had these special markers that would show whether the money was counterfeit or not, after handling real money for so long, it became obvious even before marking the bills which ones were counterfeit.

I suppose it could be true of the opposite. If I had handled nothing but counterfeit, and was taught that it was the true money, I would have called the true money counterfeit.

Hmmm, and here all this time I thought my days as a cashier were a waste. Whodda thunk it?


:doh: coulda had a v-8!

:scratch: You were a cashier and now you're qualified to decide who's a wheat and who's a tare?

[Watchman4hm]

:DDon't worry I don't need a canteen of water and neither do you, we have living water within us brother and be glad of that, so no matter what desert we cross we won't die of thirst.

Oh Im not worried for me..;)..IM worried for the fools who filled their canteens at the water hole that was poison water...Usually they have hallucinations first, then they die a horrid death of heat exposure not unlike those who will be gnashing their teeth in unquenchable fire..:)..

[Watchman4hm]

Maybe the horse knew the water was poisonous.

Wrong story..:)

[charityagape]

Oh Im not worried for me..;)..IM worried for the fools who filled their canteens at the water hole that was poison water...Usually they have hallucinations first, then they die a horrid death of heat exposure not unlike those who will be gnashing their teeth in unquenchable fire..:)..

Are you mixing up your metaphor? I thought you were the cowboy in your original metaphor?

The cowboy was quite distraught when his horse wouldn't drink the water. he knew the journey was long. He drank the water, filled his canteen and set out across the desert. He tried and tried but the horse wouldnt drink because he had no clue what was ahead of him..Some people are like that..They think they are smug and know where they are going..You can lead a horse to water, but you cant make him drink;)

IM worried for the fools who filled their canteens at the water hole that was poison water...Usually they have hallucinations first, then they die a horrid death of heat exposure not unlike those who will be gnashing their teeth in unquenchable fire..:).


Anyway as I said I've no need for a canteen at all.

[LaffyTaffy]

This is not how I see the Gospel,
but the reason FOR the Gospel.

The good news is that He died for us,
to pay the ransom for us,
by becoming sin for us.
Rotten, stinking, filthy, selfish, evil us.
So, the good news is that though we deserve Hell,
we have the hope of eternal life in Heaven with Jesus
instead of the just punishment which we all deserve.

Eternal life in Heaven, reigning with Jesus Christ, Whom we love?
Sounds like good news to me, ESPECIALLY when you consider that we all deserve Hell.

"For he who is forgiven little will love little,
but he who is forgiven much will love much."I understood what you meant, bro.

You know that's one thing the Lord really impressed on me - and that's communication. Our intent when speaking is very important, and just as important is how we hear. How we hear determines what we hear, and what we hear isn't always what was actually said.

It's true.

As far as deserving hell - yes that's true. However, one thing I will say is, I don't think God looks at it in terms of "deserving" - and of course that is to our benefit! Hallelujah!

[LaffyTaffy]

:scratch: You were a cashier and now you're qualified to decide who's a wheat and who's a tare?
:scratch: I'm trying to figure out how you got that out my post. . . but it wouldn't be the first time I was confused on this forum. :o

[GodsGlory]

:scratch: You were a cashier and now you're qualified to decide who's a wheat and who's a tare?

I know, right? Don't you hate it when lowly cashiers think that just because the Spirit of God dwells in them, they can actually have as much discernment as our wonderful apostles, prophets, pastors and other spiritual gifts?

Perhaps cashiers need to go back to cashiering, and let those of us who actually have discernment to do the discerning!!! :D

[charityagape]

I know, right? Don't you hate it when lowly cashiers think that just because the Spirit of God dwells in them, they can actually have as much discernment as our wonderful apostles, prophets, pastors and other spiritual gifts?

Perhaps cashiers need to go back to cashiering, and let those of us who actually have discernment to do the discerning!!! :D

:D;) Oh you're funny. It seemed from the post that being a cashier is what qualified her to discern between wheat and tares. What gift of the spirit is it that enables us to determine who is saved and who is not (wheat/tares)?:scratch:

[charityagape]

:D;) Oh you're funny. It seemed from the post that being a cashier is what qualified her to discern between wheat and tares. What gift of the spirit is it that enables us to determine who is saved and who is not (wheat/tares)?:scratch:


Ps. I've been a cashier myself as well as a waitress and a diswasher and a customer service representative and a health care worker and a teacher ....so your sarcasm's a little left of field........I wasn't making fun of her occupation.........just confused as to why being a cashier helped her discern between wheat and tares.

Back in the day, when working as a cashier, I had to handle a lot of money. I got used to handling it so much, that even though we had these special markers that would show whether the money was counterfeit or not, after handling real money for so long, it became obvious even before marking the bills which ones were counterfeit.

I suppose it could be true of the opposite. If I had handled nothing but counterfeit, and was taught that it was the true money, I would have called the true money counterfeit.

Hmmm, and here all this time I thought my days as a cashier were a waste. Whodda thunk it?


:doh: coulda had a v-8!

[GodsGlory]

:D;) Oh you're funny. It seemed from the post that being a cashier is what qualified her to discern between wheat and tares. What gift of the spirit is it that enables us to determine who is saved and who is not (wheat/tares)?:scratch:

EASY!!!!

"to one he giveth the gift of cashier discernment ..."

Didn't you ever read that verse? ^_^

[LaffyTaffy]

:D;) Oh you're funny. It seemed from the post that being a cashier is what qualified her to discern between wheat and tares. What gift of the spirit is it that enables us to determine who is saved and who is not (wheat/tares)?:scratch:

uh no. That's not what I was saying. There's that communication thing again. How we hear determines what we hear, and what we hear isn't necessarily what was said.

But then Jesus the lowly carpenter tried to illustrate lessons with simple things like plants, and people didn't get what He was saying either.


I suppose I am indeed simple, and the Lord has to show me truths through simple things. Maybe one day I will be smart enough that people will listen, though I suspect not. Not that it's important for people to listen to me, except the ones that need to hear it.

Jesus did not come to those who didn't need a doctor, but to those who did.

Let the hearer understand.

[Deba]

I know, right? Don't you hate it when lowly cashiers think that just because the Spirit of God dwells in them, they can actually have as much discernment as our wonderful apostles, prophets, pastors and other spiritual gifts?

Perhaps cashiers need to go back to cashiering, and let those of us who actually have discernment to do the discerning!!! :D


You think someone's vocation determines their fitness to be given spirtual gifts?

I discern that you couldn't discern your way out of paperbag - open at one end.

[LaffyTaffy]

Ps. I've been a cashier myself as well as a waitress and a diswasher and a customer service representative and a health care worker and a teacher ....so your sarcasm's a little left of field........I wasn't making fun of her occupation.........just confused as to why being a cashier helped her discern between wheat and tares.

The ASSUMPTION is that I was saying I was qualified for ANYTHING at all or that I was even SPEAKING of WHEAT and TARES, which I WAS NOT.

Let me break it down really simple like - the point was it's easy to be deceived, especially if we have been taught wrong. I can be deceived just like anyone else, which is why *I* do NOT say who is wheat, and who is tare, though the Holy Spirit CAN reveal such things.

[LaffyTaffy]

Um, not that it makes any difference, I'm no longer a cashier. I'm actually a preacher, though I now question my qualifications there if I'm wasting my time in a place like this.

[charityagape]

uh no. That's not what I was saying. There's that communication thing again. How we hear determines what we hear, and what we hear isn't necessarily what was said.

But then Jesus the lowly carpenter tried to illustrate lessons with simple things like plants, and people didn't get what He was saying either.


I suppose I am indeed simple, and the Lord has to show me truths through simple things. Maybe one day I will be smart enough that people will listen, though I suspect not. Not that it's important for people to listen to me, except the ones that need to hear it.

Jesus did not come to those who didn't need a doctor, but to those who did.

Let the hearer understand.

I'm sorry I didn't understand you. Actually, I still don't understand what you meant by:

Back in the day, when working as a cashier, I had to handle a lot of money. I got used to handling it so much, that even though we had these special markers that would show whether the money was counterfeit or not, after handling real money for so long, it became obvious even before marking the bills which ones were counterfeit.

I suppose it could be true of the opposite. If I had handled nothing but counterfeit, and was taught that it was the true money, I would have called the true money counterfeit.

Hmmm, and here all this time I thought my days as a cashier were a waste. Whodda thunk it?


:doh: coulda had a v-8!

[charityagape]

The ASSUMPTION is that I was saying I was qualified for ANYTHING at all or that I was even SPEAKING of WHEAT and TARES, which I WAS NOT.

Let me break it down really simple like - the point was it's easy to be deceived, especially if we have been taught wrong. I can be deceived just like anyone else, which is why *I* do NOT say who is wheat, and who is tare, though the Holy Spirit CAN reveal such things.
...........what you said was not exactly clear. Counterfeits, etc. But thank you clarifying.

Back in the day, when working as a cashier, I had to handle a lot of money. I got used to handling it so much, that even though we had these special markers that would show whether the money was counterfeit or not, after handling real money for so long, it became obvious even before marking the bills which ones were counterfeit.

I suppose it could be true of the opposite. If I had handled nothing but counterfeit, and was taught that it was the true money, I would have called the true money counterfeit.

Hmmm, and here all this time I thought my days as a cashier were a waste. Whodda thunk it?


:doh: coulda had a v-8!

[charityagape]

Um, not that it makes any difference, I'm no longer a cashier. I'm actually a preacher, though I now question my qualifications there if I'm wasting my time in a place like this.

:DI did assume you were no longer a cashier since that was back in the day. You're not wasting your time just because people disagree with you and because miscommunication happens. As a preacher that probably happens to you constantly in real life.

[ImmersionX]

I'm sorry, but i have to cry foul here. what TB ORIGINALLY posted, was that God told him that "they have to believe in the angel.." And they don't believe in the supernatural."
The reference to the angel has been taken off the site, if you're gonna quote TB, than do the unedited version that we remember, k?

second, bout the supernatural?

EXCUSE ME?!

Charismatics don't believe in the supernatural? I have to say that the God that said THAT to a charismatic preacher in leiu of Toronto, KCP, Brownsville, "speaking your walk into existence, etc etc ad nauseum..is NOT God.

God may tell Baptists that, i would believe that to a degree, or Presbyterians, etc etc. But charismatics? That's junk. Personal foul, flag on the play, i don't buy it.

TB is preaching to charismatics, pentecostals, LIKE-MINDED PEOPLE, and to declare that they don't believe "in the supernatural" is something CLEARLY God wouldn't tell these kind of people because it's stupid! and God is NOT stupid, tyvm.

This whole argument about the revised TB page is intellectually dishonest at best, and outright deceiftful at worst.


What is "LIKE-MINDED PEOPLE" in your eyes? Seems that you should just have joined a Pentacostal church then. I'm baptist. IT doesn't matter what denomination you are a PART OF in this case. Todd Bentley is NOT claiming any denominational "boundary" is he?

I wish people would just stop with this denominational crap. It is so far removed from this idea it's not close to accurate.

I'm not picking on you, but just using your post as a good example of the rampant un-christian attitudes round here. If you are offended...all I have to say to that is It's a forum not a love-fest here at CF.

It pained me to watch all of the posted clips....BUT the ONLY clip that even concerned me was the little boy with cerebral palsy.
I don't know if his mother is nuts or what...but there was no healing there physically. My God people I don't understand that the claim of "being charismatic" means you must accept all things "supernatural" as of God. I am charismatic in one and only sense....I believe that the gifts all of the gifts of the Holy Spirit are POSSIBLE in this day and age, but do NOT believe that every dang time someone shows/says/performs them is of the Holy Spirit!!!!
I got teary eyed at that little boy, to even think that he was surrounded by adults who should know better......! NOT OF GOD.
You don't like my opinion, as I stated it's a forum.
I'm praying for that little guy.

And to all of the people here who say that warners are all false, self centered, whatever else you call/label people who express opinion against the "charismatic grain".....you truely need a self examination cause I am getting convinced(not totally however) that you wouldn't know a true warning if it hit you in the face like a pie. Not sure what else to say here. I'm sure I'll come up with something.
I'm discerning right now of course. But it's on the internet so I MUST be speaking out of my tail....
What's all this about "the super-natural"?
The Lord stated "I AM", NOT I am super-natural!
Cripes.


Peace and God Bless.




Nuff said.

[LaffyTaffy]

As a preacher that probably happens to you constantly in real life.

Probably, lol, but the people probably just have the preacher for lunch, instead of coming right out and saying anything. Though in real life, it seems to be much easier to hear the person's intent, than it is on a message board, where people tend to be on the defensive.

Paul's letters seem harsh at times, yet when he came to the churches in person, they could hear his voice and see his witness and heart.

Though there is truth as far as even "counterfeits" go. It is sad really, which is why I believe the Lord says teachers will be held to a higher standard. I can't imagine what it would be like to stand in the shoes of someone who taught people something counterfeit as truth, and then those people in turn called people who spoke truth as counterfeits. Are there people called to "call it out"? I believe so, but I also believe it is something they don't really enjoy doing (well hopefully not). It's not fun to be called a false prophet because you are trying to do what it is the Lord has told you to do. People defend Todd Bentley for this very reason, yet, what if. . . just what if, the people who are calling out Todd Bentley are doing it because the Lord told them to?

It does not bring judgement from me, but compassion, however, compassion must give way to judgement at some point - not mine, but God's for He is just, and while mercy triumphs over judgement (as is seen in the Cross) the Lord is coming again soon to make judgement final - for He is just.

There is joy, peace and great gladness in the gospel of Christ, but certainly there should be the fear (reverance) for the Holiness of the Almighty. The fear of the Lord is truly the beginning of wisdom.

This may seem off topic, but it's really not. I was reading the book of Ecclesiastes, and talking with some folks about it. It seems by and large people don't even understand why such a pessimistic book would be in the bible, but I would submit that people who see it as pessimistic don't realize the true wisdom that is in it.

We can waste our time on vanity of vanities, searching for wisdom, and seeking things to bring us joy, and searching out the next miracle. But true wisdom comes from God alone, and that is this - our relationship with Him, for in Jesus dwells all the God-head bodily and those that are in Him are made COMPLETE in Him. This is beyond wisdom but is Truth. For wisdom will pass away, but Truth will remain.

Truth is not relative or an opinion as many would think. Truth comes from God alone, and is absolute. It just IS. "I am that I AM". But the Holy Spirit is the only one who can drop that into us. What stands in our way? opinions. what we think. what we feel. That is human wisdom, and is vanity as Ecclesiastes says.

In Him dwells all the God-Head bodily and I AM COMPLETE IN HIM.

Yet so many are tossed to and fro by this doctrine and that, because somewhere along the way, counterfeit was taught as truth.

[ImmersionX]

Paul's letters seem harsh at times, yet when he came to the churches in person, they could hear his voice and see his witness and heart



Paul also, everytime, in his epistles emphasized that he was saying what he was saying in LOVE.
Just a sidenote there. =)

[ImmersionX]

He has a duty to go posting fear and criticism all over the internet? He certainly has a legal right to post his opinion............but a Christian duty....please.

:doh:
Yes he has the duty to post his discerned opinion here. Not saying it's of the Holy Spirit, he's using his brain God gave him....c'mon people! You are just very harsh, and honestly, give the sense of being a smart-ass before anything else.
If you all truely believed in Todd Bentley, why would you bother retorting here? It's cause you like a good arguement and to lay a good put down cause it's the same people in EVERY thread!!!!!!!!!!


Just another of my 2 cents.

Peace and God Bless.

[ImmersionX]

If you don't agree with me you must be deceived. Cause God told me so.


I don't think you are kidding are you?

[LaffyTaffy]

Paul also, everytime, in his epistles emphasized that he was saying what he was saying in LOVE.
Just a sidenote there. =)true

[ImmersionX]

Honestly, pinetree, I have not seen any part of this thing which genuinely glorified what our Lord endured for us...just a shameless display of how the people of this world will fall for anything.

There is nothing at this revival which addresses the truth of our sin, which is why He went to the cross for us in the first place. That is why He came...that is why He died. That is why He rose again.

Could anyone explain to me how gold fillings, gold dust, mysterious feathers, and angels of mammon (a master which we cannot serve while serving Christ) point to that, or are there any videos ANYWHERE on the 'Net that show Todd preaching on how wretched and sinful we are, the need for repentance, and the judgment that is to come? I know there are plenty of videos of him doing "miracle" after supposed "miracle," but this is not what Jesus Christ is about. When Jesus did a miracle, it is because He did what He saw the Father doing, and He demonstrated Who He was. Nobody who saw these things questioned whether they were for real or not, though many questioned Who He was, and most would not believe.

Now tell me, is Who He is being taught by this revival in your eyes?

Or are people just coming for the great show, to have their desire to be part of it, to say they were there, and such?

All I know is that if you want a closer relationship with Jesus Christ, it is not found by going here or there, but by seeking Him with all your heart right where you're at.

It does not matter if He's in Lakeland or not. If He is not first and foremost in your heart, you will not find Him either at Lakeland, though Todd Bentley will tell you otherwise.

Just remember, a lot of the people here also think Benny Hinn is a "man of God" as well....if that tells you anything about what you are delving into.
Keep going! :amen:

Peace and God Bless.

[ImmersionX]

:eek:

Wow. Fear, uncertaintiy and doubt. The message of the "Gospel" (i.e. Good news)...

Unreal.

So the concept/doctrine whatever you want to label it of

The fear of God means nothing to you?

yeesh.

[charityagape]

:doh:
Yes he has the duty to post his discerned opinion here. Not saying it's of the Holy Spirit, he's using his brain God gave him....c'mon people! You are just very harsh, and honestly, give the sense of being a smart-ass before anything else.
If you all truely believed in Todd Bentley, why would you bother retorting here? It's cause you like a good arguement and to lay a good put down cause it's the same people in EVERY thread!!!!!!!!!!


Just another of my 2 cents.

Peace and God Bless.

Actually I don't know TB, haven't gone, haven't been listening.........I'm just tired of nameless faceless people giving their OPINION on the internet as if was not their opinion but straight from the mouth of God.

[ImmersionX]

Whether the REVIVAL itself is of God, only God knows the whole picture.

But what WE can know, which is truly manifest, is that people seem to feel very threatened that anyone would dare ask questions about Todd Bentley's revival.



The most honest post in this thread!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Nuff said.

[charityagape]

I don't think you are kidding are you?

Of course I was kidding.............I don't care who agrees with me doctrinally or not...........and I don't go around gossiping about them and calling them deceived.

[charityagape]

:doh:
Yes he has the duty to post his discerned opinion here. Not saying it's of the Holy Spirit, he's using his brain God gave him....c'mon people! You are just very harsh, and honestly, give the sense of being a smart-ass before anything else.
If you all truely believed in Todd Bentley, why would you bother retorting here? It's cause you like a good arguement and to lay a good put down cause it's the same people in EVERY thread!!!!!!!!!!


Just another of my 2 cents.

Peace and God Bless.

Yes, it is the same people, its a small forum. And its the same people on both sides of the discussion again and again.

[charityagape]

Just remember, a lot of the people here also think Benny Hinn is a "man of God" as well....if that tells you anything about what you are delving into.
Keep going! :amen:

Peace and God Bless.

Oh dear! Some of us thing Benny Hinn is a man of God. Ye sinners repent.

[GodsGlory]

Actually I don't know TB, haven't gone, haven't been listening.........I'm just tired of nameless faceless people giving their OPINION on the internet as if was not their opinion but straight from the mouth of God.

I have to disagree, because I can cite at least ten examples of people who identify themselves very openly who disagree with the revival.

The "nameless, faceless" argument is very tired, mostly because no one has to show any names or pictures to be able to have an honest opinion and to be able to post it, and to get upset about all these "nameless, faceless" people really defeats the purpose of having a good discussion in the first place.

The internet is in theory a haven for anonymity, so if they are "nameless and faceless" then perhaps the medium is serving its purpose.

[ImmersionX]

Maybe the horse knew the water was poisonous.

I think the horse had the best head on his shoulders judging by how this thread is going.

:amen:

[charityagape]

I have to disagree, because I can cite at least ten examples of people who identify themselves very openly who disagree with the revival.

The "nameless, faceless" argument is very tired, mostly because no one has to show any names or pictures to be able to have an honest opinion and to be able to post it, and to get upset about all these "nameless, faceless" people really defeats the purpose of having a good discussion in the first place.

The internet is in theory a haven for anonymity, so if they are "nameless and faceless" then perhaps the medium is serving its purpose.


Hmm I think you missed my point. I don't care about the nameless and faceless posting an opinion. Hello, that's what I'm doing, I'd be ragging on myself. I care about them saying their opinion as if its STRAIGHT from God and all you deceived sinners better listen up to my warnings.

[LaffyTaffy]

how this thread is going.




:D and here I thought this TB thread was going better than most have so far!! lol

[ImmersionX]

Actually I don't know TB, haven't gone, haven't been listening.........I'm just tired of nameless faceless people giving their OPINION on the internet as if was not their opinion but straight from the mouth of God.

Not one poster claimed that what they said, as a "warner" as you so eloquently label them, was "from the mouth of God."

I believe you did though didn't ya?

[LaffyTaffy]

Hmm I think you missed my point. I don't care about the nameless and faceless posting an opinion. Hello, that's what I'm doing, I'd be ragging on myself. I care about them saying their opinion as if its STRAIGHT from God and all you deceived sinners better listen up to my warnings.
hmmm, I think I may understand where you are coming from. You probably have a gift of mercy, and when you see what is perceived as injustice, you probably want to defend that person. . . is this correct?

[ImmersionX]

Of course I was kidding.............I don't care who agrees with me doctrinally or not...........and I don't go around gossiping about them and calling them deceived.

I don't know you do I?

Seems you made that statement too to someone earlier in this thread.
That you don't know them, so what they say means nada.(paraphrased it there of course.):thumbsup:

[Lulav]

They did not have 'sandwich boards' back in the days of the distained prophets but the spirits were the same.

"Again, when a righteous man turns from his righteousness and does evil, and I put a stumbling block before him, he will die. Since you did not warn him, he will die for his sin. The righteous things he did will not be remembered, and I will hold you accountable for his blood. But if you do warn the righteous man not to sin and he does not sin, he will surely live because he took warning, and you will have saved yourself."

[LaffyTaffy]

They did not have 'sandwich boards' back in the days of the distained prophets but the spirits were the same.
:thumbsup:

[charityagape]

I don't know you do I?

Seems you made that statement too to someone earlier in this thread.
That you don't know them, so what they say means nada.(paraphrased it there of course.):thumbsup:

Hmmm your not making a very clear statement here.

[charityagape]

They did not have 'sandwich boards' back in the days of the disdained prophets but the spirits were the same.

disdained prophets. And the people that killed them. Hmm.

[ImmersionX]

Originally Posted by charityagape http://img.christianforums.com/style/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=47569033#post47569033)
Of course I was kidding.............I don't care who agrees with me doctrinally or not...........and I don't go around gossiping about them and calling them deceived.
Originally Posted by ImmersionX

I don't know you do I?

Seems you made that statement too to someone earlier in this thread.
That you don't know them, so what they say means nada.(paraphrased it there of course.):thumbsup:


Ok...from the beginning....you've done this(highlighted in Green) all throughout this thread. I don't know you, therefore as I read this thread, I didn't know you were kidding, your tone never once indicated that you were kidding...so In my mind....you were not kidding.

Peace.

[probinson]

So the concept/doctrine whatever you want to label it of

The fear of God means nothing to you?

yeesh.
The fear of God is a reverential fear. Not a fear of, "I'm a heartbeat away from hell."

Yeesh. http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h128/petesarah/Smilies/rolleyes.gif

[Mathetes the kerux]

Not exactly...

What He said is that God told him that the people ALREADY believe in Jesus, but the church doesn't believe in the supernatural.

So let me ask you a question. Do you come into this Christians-only forum and preach that we need Jesus every day? Of course not. Why? Because we all believe in Jesus.

But you know what though . . . it should all stem from a solid presentation of the person and work of Christ.

I agree that many are taking this video out of context . . . but I still see a problem with it . . . how many times are angels mentioned in the NT? And how many times is Christ? You see the emphasis? It was overfocus on angelic majesty that got the Colossians in trouble.

THERE CAN NEVER BE TOO MUCH OF JESUS. And honestly . . . there is NOT enough in ANY of these meetings . . . not that many a church on any given sunday is any better . . . but our focus is to be Christ . . . NOT angels.

[Alpine]

how many times are angels mentioned in the NT?



Quite a bit.

[pinetree]

But you know what though . . . it should all stem from a solid presentation of the person and work of Christ.

I agree that many are taking this video out of context . . . but I still see a problem with it . . . how many times are angels mentioned in the NT? And how many times is Christ? You see the emphasis? It was overfocus on angelic majesty that got the Colossians in trouble.

THERE CAN NEVER BE TOO MUCH OF JESUS. And honestly . . . there is NOT enough in ANY of these meetings . . . not that many a church on any given sunday is any better . . . but our focus is to be Christ . . . NOT angels.
Hey bro,how ya been:wave:

Just curious,all the healings,and salvations that bring glory to Jesus at the Todd events..

By what spirit, do you think is doing this?:)

[map4]

Probably, lol, but the people probably just have the preacher for lunch, instead of coming right out and saying anything. Though in real life, it seems to be much easier to hear the person's intent, than it is on a message board, where people tend to be on the defensive.

Paul's letters seem harsh at times, yet when he came to the churches in person, they could hear his voice and see his witness and heart.

Though there is truth as far as even "counterfeits" go. It is sad really, which is why I believe the Lord says teachers will be held to a higher standard. I can't imagine what it would be like to stand in the shoes of someone who taught people something counterfeit as truth, and then those people in turn called people who spoke truth as counterfeits. Are there people called to "call it out"? I believe so, but I also believe it is something they don't really enjoy doing (well hopefully not). It's not fun to be called a false prophet because you are trying to do what it is the Lord has told you to do. People defend Todd Bentley for this very reason, yet, what if. . . just what if, the people who are calling out Todd Bentley are doing it because the Lord told them to?

It does not bring judgement from me, but compassion, however, compassion must give way to judgement at some point - not mine, but God's for He is just, and while mercy triumphs over judgement (as is seen in the Cross) the Lord is coming again soon to make judgement final - for He is just.

There is joy, peace and great gladness in the gospel of Christ, but certainly there should be the fear (reverance) for the Holiness of the Almighty. The fear of the Lord is truly the beginning of wisdom.

This may seem off topic, but it's really not. I was reading the book of Ecclesiastes, and talking with some folks about it. It seems by and large people don't even understand why such a pessimistic book would be in the bible, but I would submit that people who see it as pessimistic don't realize the true wisdom that is in it.

We can waste our time on vanity of vanities, searching for wisdom, and seeking things to bring us joy, and searching out the next miracle. But true wisdom comes from God alone, and that is this - our relationship with Him, for in Jesus dwells all the God-head bodily and those that are in Him are made COMPLETE in Him. This is beyond wisdom but is Truth. For wisdom will pass away, but Truth will remain.

Truth is not relative or an opinion as many would think. Truth comes from God alone, and is absolute. It just IS. "I am that I AM". But the Holy Spirit is the only one who can drop that into us. What stands in our way? opinions. what we think. what we feel. That is human wisdom, and is vanity as Ecclesiastes says.

In Him dwells all the God-Head bodily and I AM COMPLETE IN HIM.

Yet so many are tossed to and fro by this doctrine and that, because somewhere along the way, counterfeit was taught as truth.

I think this is an excellent post that all should read and meditate on.

This is not just relevant to whether you think this particular revival is of God or not.

We must step back, lay aside our opinions of WHATEVER the subject is and let God's truth come through. Because, sometimes, we are just wrong in our opinions of something.

It cannot be what WE say or think, but what GOD says and thinks.

My post is not to pass judgement on whether what TB is doing is of God or not. I haven't watched or listened enough to know.

I just think that what was said in Laffy's post is a good word that we all need to hear and be reminded of.

[~RENEE~]

I haven't seen any salvations or healings in Lakeland,
so you'll have to play this game with somebody else.
I'm glad you find it all so amusing.
Well that just means you havn't paid attention.

http://members.cox.net/ltguilo/pictures/Plank.jpg

[~RENEE~]

On the flip side: maybe blind sinners are being deceived, and the flock set upon by ravenous wolves...yet praise Jesus, through Whom these same sinners may yet be redeemed by God's lovingkindness and measureless mercy, if they repent and return to Him!
So you're calling me and my husband blind sinners?

http://members.cox.net/ltguilo/pictures/Plank.jpg

[~RENEE~]

GodsGlory[/B]]
At least those who oppose the revival are willing to listen to the other side - much more so than those who follow it.
UHHHHHHHHHHHHH OKKKKKKKKk. I think you're having eyesight probs if you believe this. Or else you ain't been readin EVERYTHING.

[~RENEE~]

Originally Posted by Ajax 777
I think every last one of us, myself included, are all only a heartbeat away from Hell.
I am on my way to Heaven where the saints are robed in white
Shouting glory, shouting glory!
To that blessèd land immortal where can never come the night,
Shouting glory all the way!
Refrain
O glory, hallelujah!
I am on the way to Heaven,
Shouting glory, shouting glory
O glory, hallelujah!
I am on the way to Heaven,
Shouting glory, all the way!
I am on my way to Heaven where the streets are paved with gold,
Shouting glory, shouting glory!
To the place of many mansions and of glories yet untold,
Shouting glory all the way!
Refrain
I am on my way to Heaven, blessèd land of pure delight,
Shouting glory, shouting glory!
Where the blest of every nation are forever clothed in white,
Shouting glory all the way!
Refrain
I am on my way to Heaven where I’ll see my Savior’s face
Shouting glory, shouting glory!
There I’ll sing redemption’s story, blessèd song of saving grace,
Shouting glory all the way!
Refrain

[pinetree]

Would any of the Todd detractors please answer this question please!

By what spirit are the healings and salvations that bring glory to Jesus being done?

Mattkerux,ajax777,yeckidimdj...

[pinetree]

duplicate

[~RENEE~]

:scratch: You were a cashier and now you're qualified to decide who's a wheat and who's a tare?why don't you know that's the new qualifications.:P

[Yekcidmij]

,yeckidimdj...



WHAT DO YOU WANT??? I HAPPENED TO CHECK THE END OF THE THREAD TO SEE WHERE THIS DISCUSSION HAD TAKEN OFF TO SO FAST AND SAW MY NAME IN LARGE LETTERS. WHAT DO YOU STINKIN' WANT!?!

[ralangley]

All this talk about counterfeit miracles made me laugh! I spent about 25 years studying with and following after some of the world's most well known "new-age" healers and miracle workers. I've seen some amazing things, even in my own practice. But never once did I hear any of my teachers talk about Jesus, command a healing in Jesus' name, ask a client to receive Jesus as Saviour, quote the bible unless to discount it, or even worship anyone other than themselves. If those that are so quick to criticize TB would simply watch a full meeting (and not overly edited video cuts), they would see a man devoted to Jesus and doing his best to follow God's will. Does he get fleshy? Yes. Does he have more to learn in this world about being a more effective leader? Yes. But don't we all? He's a man - a young man. He's reaching those who are among the most difficult to reach with the message of salvation.

Counterfeit? In Jesus' name? How funny.

[LeadWorship]

Yeck.. that was funny :)

[Alpine]

If those that are so quick to criticize TB would simply watch a full meeting (and not overly edited video cuts), they would see a man devoted to Jesus and doing his best to follow God's will.



Exactly! If they would watch a whole service, and see the extended worship of JESUS and hear JESUS name proclaimed over and over, they would realize how silly their arguments are.

[BenAdam]

Pinetree

Buddy, brother, disinfectant,

Being a Todd Bentley cautioner I will answer your question.

Some of what Todd is doing may be (and probably is) by the Spirit. Some of it may be by his flesh (and probably is) especially when it is hype and emotionalism. There may be true healings, there are definitley things done that are not of God. Gifts are not a measure of maturity, fruit is. IMHO I don't see much fruit, I see flash. Does that mean Todd is a heretic? Don't know. I do not think so though. I personally would not have him come to my church, but it doesn't mean people are not blessed, healed, etc through him.

[Yekcidmij]

Yeck.. that was funny :)


ha...that was the intent. Appearantly I'm being called out on threads I wasn't even participating in.


NEWSFLASH: After 14 pages worth of information, Yekcidmij discovered to his horror, and unknown to him since he wasn't involved in the 14 pages worth of discussion, that he was being implicated in whatever was happening on the previous 14 pages.

[LeadWorship]

Yeah, the crazy thing is I just finished reading through all 14... now 15... of these pages. yikes!

[Alpine]

Pinetree

Buddy, brother, disinfectant,

Being a Todd Bentley cautioner I will answer your question.

Some of what Todd is doing may be (and probably is) by the Spirit. Some of it may be by his flesh (and probably is) especially when it is hype and emotionalism. There may be true healings, there are definitley things done that are not of God. Gifts are not a measure of maturity, fruit is. IMHO I don't see much fruit, I see flash. Does that mean Todd is a heretic? Don't know. I do not think so though. I personally would not have him come to my church, but it doesn't mean people are not blessed, healed, etc through him.


I can totally appreciate the spirit with which you approach this. You are actually somewhat open minded, though you have decided you are not very much for it. That I can commend.

[Watchman4hm]

Interesting reading here... (http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/blog/index.php?p=1067&c=1)

[Alpine]

Yeah, the crazy thing is I just finished reading through all 14... now 15... of these pages. yikes!

Heh, I only have 4 pages. :P

[BenAdam]

I can totally appreciate the spirit with which you approach this. You are actually somewhat open minded, though you have decided you are not very much for it. That I can commend.

Thanks man. I also would never presume to make up someone else's mind on this. My mind is made up. I also know y'all wouldn't want to see me up there doing what he is doing. I don't even want the kind of temptation and criticism Todd is going through.

[pinetree]

Pinetree

Buddy, brother, disinfectant,

Being a Todd Bentley cautioner I will answer your question.

Some of what Todd is doing may be (and probably is) by the Spirit. Some of it may be by his flesh (and probably is) especially when it is hype and emotionalism. There may be true healings, there are definitley things done that are not of God. Gifts are not a measure of maturity, fruit is. IMHO I don't see much fruit, I see flash. Does that mean Todd is a heretic? Don't know. I do not think so though. I personally would not have him come to my church, but it doesn't mean people are not blessed, healed, etc through him.
Well so what if there is emotionalism,my little pirate friend.:D

No fruit?

A whole school of about 139 deaf people were healed..

I think that might lead to emotionalism..;)

[pinetree]

WHAT DO YOU WANT??? I HAPPENED TO CHECK THE END OF THE THREAD TO SEE WHERE THIS DISCUSSION HAD TAKEN OFF TO SO FAST AND SAW MY NAME IN LARGE LETTERS. WHAT DO YOU STINKIN' WANT!?!

easy cowboy (little print is nice too)..just stinkin of you...:)

[BenAdam]

Well so what if there is emotionalism,my little pirate friend.:D

No fruit?

A whole school of about 139 deaf people were healed..

I think that might lead to emotionalism..;)


Well for one, I don't believe the report. Once these things flesh out abit, some ... embellishment comes to light. Doesn't mean people are not healed but usually there is some exaggeration, not always though.

Emotionalism is not showing of emotion, but overemphasising it. When this happens good doctrine and scripture tends to suffer. I have heard people in the throws of emotionalism reject correction and say "If feeling this way is wrong, I don't want to be right!!!"

[lilmissmontana]

Probably, lol, but the people probably just have the preacher for lunch, instead of coming right out and saying anything. Though in real life, it seems to be much easier to hear the person's intent, than it is on a message board, where people tend to be on the defensive.

Paul's letters seem harsh at times, yet when he came to the churches in person, they could hear his voice and see his witness and heart.

Though there is truth as far as even "counterfeits" go. It is sad really, which is why I believe the Lord says teachers will be held to a higher standard. I can't imagine what it would be like to stand in the shoes of someone who taught people something counterfeit as truth, and then those people in turn called people who spoke truth as counterfeits. Are there people called to "call it out"? I believe so, but I also believe it is something they don't really enjoy doing (well hopefully not). It's not fun to be called a false prophet because you are trying to do what it is the Lord has told you to do. People defend Todd Bentley for this very reason, yet, what if. . . just what if, the people who are calling out Todd Bentley are doing it because the Lord told them to?

It does not bring judgement from me, but compassion, however, compassion must give way to judgement at some point - not mine, but God's for He is just, and while mercy triumphs over judgement (as is seen in the Cross) the Lord is coming again soon to make judgement final - for He is just.

There is joy, peace and great gladness in the gospel of Christ, but certainly there should be the fear (reverance) for the Holiness of the Almighty. The fear of the Lord is truly the beginning of wisdom.

This may seem off topic, but it's really not. I was reading the book of Ecclesiastes, and talking with some folks about it. It seems by and large people don't even understand why such a pessimistic book would be in the bible, but I would submit that people who see it as pessimistic don't realize the true wisdom that is in it.

We can waste our time on vanity of vanities, searching for wisdom, and seeking things to bring us joy, and searching out the next miracle. But true wisdom comes from God alone, and that is this - our relationship with Him, for in Jesus dwells all the God-head bodily and those that are in Him are made COMPLETE in Him. This is beyond wisdom but is Truth. For wisdom will pass away, but Truth will remain.

Truth is not relative or an opinion as many would think. Truth comes from God alone, and is absolute. It just IS. "I am that I AM". But the Holy Spirit is the only one who can drop that into us. What stands in our way? opinions. what we think. what we feel. That is human wisdom, and is vanity as Ecclesiastes says.

In Him dwells all the God-Head bodily and I AM COMPLETE IN HIM.

Yet so many are tossed to and fro by this doctrine and that, because somewhere along the way, counterfeit was taught as truth.


I come in Jesus name
I come in Peace
Jesus is Truth
I stand on this post
I leave in Peace
I leave in Christ
God bless

[~RENEE~]

Before God healed Ken's foot while watching the revival online he was without feeling in that foot for 29 years. Imangine that 29 years with feeling in his foot then God healed him and repaired the damaged nerves that caused his foot to not have feeling. 29 years. You're darn tooten we got emotional. We both sat here and wept and cryed I was shaking from head to toe. Yes we got emotional. One would under those circumstances.

[pinetree]

Well for one, I don't believe the report. Once these things flesh out abit, some ... embellishment comes to light. Doesn't mean people are not healed but usually there is some exaggeration, not always though.

Emotionalism is not showing of emotion, but overemphasising it. When this happens good doctrine and scripture tends to suffer. I have heard people in the throws of emotionalism reject correction and say "If feeling this way is wrong, I don't want to be right!!!"
ok:)

[pinetree]

Before God healed Ken's foot while watching the revival online he was without feeling in that foot for 29 years. Imangine that 29 years with feeling in his foot then God healed him and repaired the damaged nerves that caused his foot to not have feeling. 29 years. You're darn tooten we got emotional. We both sat here and wept and cryed I was shaking from head to toe. Yes we got emotional. One would under those circumstances.
Amen!!:clap::clap:

What we got are folks who want it all to meet their standard...

it must meet their standard of control...:P

All the signs,wonders,miracles,all throughout scripture,when they were unfolding right before their eyes,could not be approved or tested by scripture.;)

And we all know,that there were many "odd" things that happened..

And yes..even angel appearances..:angel: