Is excepting Jesus into your heart enough???

[rgray]

Is it enough to just pray a prayer excepting Christ into your heart to obtain the Holy Spirit? Is baptism just an outward show of your devotion to God or is it a necessary step in the process of becoming a born again Christian? The first step is obviously to believe in Christ other wise why would one get baptized? But what does it mean to believe in someone? Is it enough to just believe that Christ existed or are we to believe in what he brought? He says in the last chapter of Mark “He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved.” Also, what about the laying on of hands? Is it necessary? Before you respond to this consider the 8th Chapter of Acts where for the people of Samaria it was necessary. Acts Chapter 8 Verses 12-17 talks about how the people of Samaria were taught Christ by Philip, then they believed in Christ, and were then even baptized in his name and yet the Holy Ghost had not fallen on them until Peter and John came and laid hands on them. Please let me know what you guys think of this scripture.

[arunma]

Is it enough to just pray a prayer excepting Christ into your heart to obtain the Holy Spirit? Is baptism just an outward show of your devotion to God or is it a necessary step in the process of becoming a born again Christian? The first step is obviously to believe in Christ other wise why would one get baptized? But what does it mean to believe in someone? Is it enough to just believe that Christ existed or are we to believe in what he brought? He says in the last chapter of Mark “He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved.” Also, what about the laying on of hands? Is it necessary? Before you respond to this consider the 8th Chapter of Acts where for the people of Samaria it was necessary. Acts Chapter 8 Verses 12-17 talks about how the people of Samaria were taught Christ by Philip, then they believed in Christ, and were then even baptized in his name and yet the Holy Ghost had not fallen on them until Peter and John came and laid hands on them. Please let me know what you guys think of this scripture.

Before forming any new doctrine here, I think it's important to consider these Scriptures in the context of the whole of Scripture. It is true that the Holy Spirit only fell on the Samaritans after the Apostles from Jerusalem laid hands on them. However, it doesn't say that this experience was connected to their salvation. Being filled with the Holy Spirit will empower one to use God's gifts for the benefit of the church. For example, the Holy Spirit allowed the believers to speak in tongues (Acts 2:4), and he enabled Peter to preach (Acts 4:8). But I would also point out that Paul received the Holy Spirit after his calling from the Lord (Acts 9:17). The Holy Spirit is promised to all who call on the name of Christ:
And Peter said to them, "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. (Acts 2:38)
The Holy Spirit is also the guarantee of our inheritance in Christ:
He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who has given us the Spirit as a guarantee. (2 Corinthians 5:5)
However, salvation is always connected to faith in Christ, and receiving the Holy Spirit seems to be a fruit of that faith. As it says:
And they said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household." (Acts 16:31)
And as for baptism, the thief on the cross (who, unfortunately, is cited as an example to defend virtually every doctrine out there) demonstrates that baptism is also not a prerequisite for salvation. Certainly I would say that people should be baptized immediately after believing in Jesus, and we probably shouldn't have these lengthy "baptism classes" in our churches. But ultimately salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, not by anything that we can do.

[rgray]

A very good response however it seems to me that you think of the Holy Spirit only as something we get so that we can be used in spiritual gifts. What about for instance 1st Corinthians Chapter 6 where it says "What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you." Can we be righteous without the Holy Ghost in us? We were born again but into what? Into Christ, but we are made a new creature and life is now in us. What is that life? It is the Holy Spirit. So I do agree with you that the Holy Spirit is something we attain because of being saved but it makes me think about baptism again. What does it really symbolize? It is for the cleansing or purification so that that the Spirit may enter in and dwell in us. Now I know that dumping some one in water and praying over them will get them to Heaven, they have to believe for it to even work. Peter said it's "not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God." Meaning you do it because he told us to however it doesn't mean that there is no symbolic meaning behind it either.

[LovebirdsFlying]

Questions on whether or not baptism is essential to salvation always put these questions in my mind:

Where does it say in Scripture that one must be baptized during a church service, by ordained clergy? Isn't it just as Scriptural to be baptized in a lake, by a fellow Christian who is not, on paper, necessarily a minister?

And a classic skeptic's question: What about someone who has accepted the Lord, asked Jesus to save him, makes the decision to be baptized, then dies in a car accident on the way to the church? Some would argue that this person is lost, because he didn't get his "sins washed away" in time. I disagree.

The thinking that baptism is necessary for salvation is what causes some denominations to sprinkle babies and call that baptism.

I understand it to be an act of obedience, and an outward sign of what already took place: Jesus has already washed away the sins of the person who asked Him to. Baptism is a celebration to show that it has been done. Immersion also fits the death, burial, resurrection symbolism (buried with Christ in baptism) rather than sprinkling. After all, when something dies and you bury it, you don't just sprinkle a little bit of dirt on it, you *cover* it with dirt. I don't think baptism is Scriptural unless the person is immersed, but then I also don't think someone who has accepted the gift of Christ's salvation is lost without having undergone baptism. That would be like saying someone is not really dead because he hasn't been buried.

[trentlogain]

A very good response however it seems to me that you think of the Holy Spirit only as something we get so that we can be used in spiritual gifts. What about for instance 1st Corinthians Chapter 6 where it says "What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you." Can we be righteous without the Holy Ghost in us? We were born again but into what? Into Christ, but we are made a new creature and life is now in us. What is that life? It is the Holy Spirit. So I do agree with you that the Holy Spirit is something we attain because of being saved but it makes me think about baptism again. What does it really symbolize? It is for the cleansing or purification so that that the Spirit may enter in and dwell in us. Now I know that dumping some one in water and praying over them will get them to Heaven, they have to believe for it to even work. Peter said it's "not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God." Meaning you do it because he told us to however it doesn't mean that there is no symbolic meaning behind it either.

Sir, if you think getting baptized is going to save you then you have been lied to or you are misguided. The bottom line is that this is just wrong. The first thing I would look at is the first words out of the mouth of Jesus Himself during His public ministry: "Repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." -Matthew 4:17

This combined with believing in Jesus as the Son of God who was born, died, and rose again from the grave are the only means of salvation.

[chi_cchick]

No I think you need to completely surrender your life over to God and let him make changes in your heart. We can't do it alone. I've been "saved" hundreds of times but I just sat on my butt and after a few weeks I would fall away from God completely. For me it took finding a church and youth group service to attend before the real growth started. I needed it for support and encouragement and it has also been a good base for meeting other christians and learning about Christ. I did some independant study on God before I joined a church inbetween being a christian and not being one, and for me it took an altercall at a young people's camp before I could really call myself a christian. I think you have to follow God's voice and let him make the changes. Accepting him into your heart isn't enough unless you follow through with letting his plan for your life guide you!

(Sorry I didn't read the above posts because I'm really tired. I just responded to the title, so you've probably already covered all this stuff!)

:-)

[mlqurgw]

I defy anyone to show me a Scripture reference that tells us to accept Jesus into our heart. By the time we realize He is there He has already set up His throne there. Salvation isn't accepting Him. He is both Lord and King whether we realize it or not. When He, in sovereign grace, makes Himself known to us in mercy it is because He has already made us new creatures in Him. We don't accept Him but simply bow to His rule, all by the infinite, powerful, wise, sovereign grace of God in Christ. The Majestic and Sovereign Lord always comes first to the rebel as a Conqueror before He comes as a Comforter. The Lord Jesus Christ's terms of peace with the rebel sinner isn't, " Why don't we come together and work this thing out with you accepting me" but " Surrender or die!"

[edb19]

I defy anyone to show me a Scripture reference that tells us to accept Jesus into our heart. By the time we realize He is there He has already set up His throne there. Salvation isn't accepting Him. He is both Lord and King whether we realize it or not. When He, in sovereign grace, makes Himself known to us in mercy it is because He has already made us new creatures in Him. We don't accept Him but simply bow to His rule, all by the infinite, powerful, wise, sovereign grace of God in Christ. The Majestic and Sovereign Lord always comes first to the rebel as a Conqueror before He comes as a Comforter. The Lord Jesus Christ's terms of peace with the rebel sinner isn't, " Why don't we come together and work this thing out with you accepting me" but " Surrender or die!"

Amen and Amen.

[DeaconDean]

Can we be righteous without the Holy Ghost in us?

Short answer, no.

We were born again but into what? Into Christ, but we are made a new creature and life is now in us. What is that life? It is the Holy Spirit. So I do agree with you that the Holy Spirit is something we attain because of being saved but it makes me think about baptism again.

Let me ask you a question friend. Please show me in the scriptures where the original 12 disciples were baptized.

How did they (minus Judas of course) receive the Holy Spirit?

What does it really symbolize? It is for the cleansing or purification so that that the Spirit may enter in and dwell in us.

Neither. It is symbolic of how we are joined with Christ in His death, burial, and resurrection. (cf Rom. 6:3-4)

Think of it like this, baptism symbolizes that when Christ died, I died with Him. When Christ was buried, I was buried with Him. When He arose from the grave, I arose with Him. That is what baptism is.

Now I know that dumping some one in water and praying over them will get them to Heaven, they have to believe for it to even work. Peter said it's "not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God." Meaning you do it because he told us to however it doesn't mean that there is no symbolic meaning behind it either.

But, let me take a minute to back track on a subject.

Do you know what the real reson Christ went to John the Baptist to be baptized was?

It wasn't because He needed to repent or had any sin to be cleasned of because He was sinless.

It wasn't so that He could receive the Holy Spirit because He was God made flesh. He did not need a part of the Father to do the Fathers work. So it wasn't in order to receive the Holy Spirit.

You could make the argument that it was to set the proper example for us to follow, but even that at best, does not fit. Why weren't the Disciples baptized?

We speak of Jesus as the only person who ever fulfilled the requirements of the "Law" fully, yet most don't even grasp what even that, truly means.

Jesus is refered to as "our prefect sacrifice."

And as such, He had to be spotless, without sin according to the "Law."

The lamb was brought to the priest, and then it was examined. If it had any flaw on it, it was rejected, however, if it was spotless, it was accepted. And according to the Levitical Law, once the sacrifice was prepared for the slaughter, it had to be washed. (cf Lev.1)

Jesus' baptism was just that. Our sacirfice was washed, examinied, and accepted by the ultimate "high priest" God! And here is the proof:

"And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him. And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." -Mt. 3:15-17 (KJV)

And Jesus was examined again just prior to His being offered up as our sacrifice for sin. Here is the proof:

"And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart, And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light. And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him. Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias. While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him." -Mt. 17:1-5 (KJV)

Now, backtracking again, you said:

It is for the cleansing or purification so that that the Spirit may enter in and dwell in us.

We have the Holy Spirit in us already before we confess and repent. He is already dwelling within us. Now wait a minute, hear me out.

God, Jeremiah, and Jesus teach us that out of the heart proceeds everything that defiles us. God said that its thoughts were constantly evil from your youth up. Jeremiah says that it is decietful above all things, who could know it.

With such an evil heart within us, can any outside influence change us? No.

Scriptures say:

"And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin, because they believe not on me; Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged." -John 16:8-11 (KJV)

The word "reprove" here also means to "convict." And who is the "he" here? Why the Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit has to be working from within at the very "heart" of where sin lies. So in a very real sense, the Holy Spirit is already win us. But that is not all either.

One of the very best discourses on how the Holy Spirit works in us in bringing us to the point of salvation is found in Charles Hodge's "Systematic Theology."

I have Hodge's Systematic Theology, both in the three volume set, and on cd.

And in Volume I, he addresses the aspect of God as a trinity. And as a trinity, he addresses how each one works. And in volume I he addresse the Holy Spirit's work in salvation.

And how does the Holy Spirit work in salvation?

1) Conviction

2) Regeneration

3) Faith is given and the exercise of faith and repentance

4) Indwelling after repentance.

So with this in mind, Jesus said to the Disciples:

"Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:" -Jn. 20:21-22 (KJV)

They received the Holy Spirit then and there, immediately.

So why would the Holy Spirit work in us to convict us of our sin, regenerate us, give us the faith to believe, then leave, only to return and "indwell us" after we have been baptized?

Because He doesn't.

God Bless

Till all are one.

[QuickzDraw]

It is also important to consider other references in Acts. In chapter 10, those in the household of Cornelius, the centurion, received the Holy Spirit during Peter's sermon, before he could finish! No hands were laid upon them. They received the Holy Spirit prior to water baptism! I have found that it is difficult to put the Holy Spirit into a box when looking at the historical narratives of Acts.

It is clear that all believers have the Holy Spirit (Rom 8:9). The actions of Acts took place in a transitional period (very early first century). I do not interpret Acts as a doctrinal book per se, although doctrine is included. It is a history of the young church and primarily focuses on the ministries of Peter and Paul.

The epistles clearly teach us that salvation is by grace through faith apart from works, and that all believers have the Holy Spirit of God. Water baptism was not necessary for the household of Cornelius to receive the Holy Spirit, nor was the laying on of hands. All believers are indwelt by the Holy Spirit. There are no exceptions.

A final note: Most people who become saved are not theologians and have only a scan knowledge of theological truths at the time of conversion. We don't make people theologians and then lead them to the Lord. We preach the Gospel of grace, urge them to be reconciled to Christ, and then after the come to Christ we disciple them. Like Peter we prompt them to be baptized, get involved in a Bible teaching church, and endeavor to teach them the great truths of the Word.

[christian73]

Dean, that's an awesome post brother. Bless you.