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Till
12th June 2008, 08:04 AM
How do you understand Acts 8:

V.14. Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the Word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John, v.15. who, when they were come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Ghost v.16. for as yet He was fallen upon none of them; only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus). V.17. Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost. Kretzmann writes:



The apostles never undertook to exercise hierarchical powers and to assume a jurisdiction which they did not possess. But they had been commissioned by Christ as the teachers unto all nations and therefore were anxious to establish true unity of faith in all congregations, no matter where they might be established. It was an important point in the progress of Christianity that people outside of the Old Testament covenant should receive the Gospel and be added to the Church of Christ. When the apostles therefore received the news that Samaria had received the Word of God, that its people had professed allegiance to the Redeemer, they sent Peter and John as their personal representatives to find out the truth of the report and, if so, to establish the bonds of fraternal unity. The fact of the report being certified to, Peter and John not only extended to the Samaritan Church the hand of fellowship, but also transmitted to these new converts the wonderful gifts which they themselves had received. The Samaritans had been baptized, and therefore they were in full possession of the pardon of God, as well as of the Spirit which sanctifies, Mark 16,16; Acts 2,38. But now they were equipped with extraordinary gifts, with the power to perform miracles, to speak with strange tongues, to prophesy, and to give other peculiar evidences of the Spirit’s omnipotence and divine majesty. 27) These extraordinary manifestations had not yet been imparted to these believers, although all the spiritual gifts were theirs by and through Baptism. But now these powers were transmitted to them by the laying on of hands, for it was a part of the Lord’s plan in the early Church to use miracles and signs to confirm the preaching of the Gospel. “The design of such gifts, and the way in which they were exercised in the congregation, are fully set forth by Paul in 1 Cor. 12-14. These gifts served a temporary purpose, until the facts, doctrine, commandments, and promises of the new covenant were committed to writing by inspired men, when the prophecies, tongues, and miraculous knowledge of individual teachers gave place to the written Word.” 28)Is the "falling of the spirit upon them" which had not yet happened really different - as Kretzmann says - from the gift of the spirit which Acts 2,38 promises?

Act 2:38 Then Peter said to them, Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ to remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Is it different from the "baptizing with the Spirit" that John the Baptist says Jesus will do:


Joh 1:33 And I did not know Him, but He who sent me to baptize with water, that One said to me, Upon whom you shall see the Spirit descending, and remaining upon Him, He is the One who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.

And is it different from the "being born of Spirit" that Jesus says is necessary to enter the kingdom of God and links it with the water of baptism:

Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Truly, truly, I say to you, Unless a man is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Edial
12th June 2008, 11:21 PM
How do you understand Acts 8:

V.14. Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the Word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John, v.15. who, when they were come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Ghost v.16. for as yet He was fallen upon none of them; only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus). V.17. Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

Kretzmann writes:
...
The fact of the report being certified to, Peter and John not only extended to the Samaritan Church the hand of fellowship, but also transmitted to these new converts the wonderful gifts which they themselves had received. The Samaritans had been baptized, and therefore they were in full possession of the pardon of God, as well as of the Spirit which sanctifies, Mark 16,16; Acts 2,38. But now they were equipped with extraordinary gifts, ...


Is the "falling of the spirit upon them" which had not yet happened really different - as Kretzmann says - from the gift of the spirit which Acts 2,38 promises?
Act 2:38 Then Peter said to them, Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ to remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.


Is it different from the "baptizing with the Spirit" that John the Baptist says Jesus will do:
Joh 1:33 And I did not know Him, but He who sent me to baptize with water, that One said to me, Upon whom you shall see the Spirit descending, and remaining upon Him, He is the One who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.


And is it different from the "being born of Spirit" that Jesus says is necessary to enter the kingdom of God and links it with the water of baptism:
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Truly, truly, I say to you, Unless a man is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.


Interesting.
I do not know why Kretzmann said that Samaritans received gifts that Holy Spirit gives and referred to Acts 2:38.
Acts 2:38 is apparently talking about Holy Spirit Himself being a gift. Gift is singular here.
I do not see a reason why he said that.

Unless of course Kretzmann wants to present that being baptized in the name of Jesus was already a reception of Holy Spirit as per the Acts 2:38.
However, the Acts 2:38 text does not necessarily say that baptism itself will immediately bring Holy Spirit, but they will receive Holy Spirit maybe even after the baptism.

Maybe in the Samaritans' case Holy Spirit was indeed received after the baptism (not during it) through the hands of the Apostles.

Perhabs the Samaritans did not properly know the teachings of Christ concerning this, since the Apostles never attended that country yet. They received the Word of God, but I am not certain what this means.

I don't know. There appears to be a strong association between the Apostles visiting a country and laying the groundwork for that nation to be a believing nation and then, after the "spark" was instilled in that nations, it continued through generations in that nation with baptism and all.

I don't know.
But it is a good question.

Thanks, :)
Ed

yeshuaslavejeff
21st June 2008, 09:51 PM
A Jewish believer immersed in Yahshua
pointed out on a website
that pentecost happened
..
while the disciples/followers of Yahshua were obeying the law.
(and they all continued to do so, both the Jews and the gentiles in Yahshua).
..
The Jews also have a very different perspective of holy (it is an adjective, and believers in Yahshua were in Scripture all required to live holy lives).