some thoughts...

[Julina]

so i'm home from college for the summer and i've been going back to the Episcopal church, mainly because my mum volunteered me to sing in the choir.
it's just not the same anymore after going to the Orthodox church, but i will say that the first time i went to the Orthodox Divine Liturgy i was quite surprised by the number of similarities. a lot of the prayers are the same, just translated differently. i think i've developed a huge appreciation for traditional liturgics.
as much as Anglicanism doesn't seem too far off from Orthodoxy (as compared with other Protestant traditions), i just don't think it's as complete. going to any other non-Orthodox church now just doesn't feel... right. i don't know how i'd ever tell that to my parents.
anyway, i'm planning to check out some of the Orthodox churches in my area sometime. anyone else here from NJ?
also, before i left for the summer, i got a calendar that marks all the different fast days and feast days, but i really have no idea what they are.

[Akathist]

I felt the same way after my first visit to an Orthodox Church.

I would encourage you to look at this website to answer many of your questions: http://www.orthodoxyinamerica.org/ It is just about the best place to go to find a local Orthodox Church. But there are also articles about some of the basic things that you are asking too.

Before you get too far into the idea of "fasting" I would encourage you start attending a parish and talk to the Priest there for direction. However, just for a brief discussion, most of the year we fast from certain foods (and amounts of foods) on Wednesday and Friday's. We have the "Peter and Paul" fast coming up which usually last about a week. The first two weeks in August we have a fast called the "Dormition of Theotokos" fast. This is in memory of the death of Mary the mother of Christ.

During these fast we also are only refraining from certain foods, not all foods.

The only time we fast from all foods is from midnight Saturday until after we receive the Eucharist on Sunday at Church.

All fasts are to be directed by our Priests and there are exceptions made for those new to the faith, those with medical conditions, those living with nonOrthodox, pregnant women, children and for maybe other reasons.

We refrain from dairy foods, meat, and eggs. Some days we also refrain from wine and oil and fish.

In the "fish" department, seafood with no backbone are allowed. (Such as shrimp or lobster).

Fasting is not very good if it does not also involve increased prayers and giving to others (such as to the poor or to charity.) Fasting can also involve not being on the computer as much, or watching as much TV. I usually try to limit the reading of fiction during fast so that I will have more time for spiritual reading and bible reading for example.

Again, fasting is done under the direction of one's Priest. But there are inquirers and catechumen's who follow the fast. We just strongly encourage you to be under the direction of the local Priest because fasting is an acetic practice and as such it can not only give spiritual blessings, it can also cause spiritual problems. A Priest can help look out for such things and properly advise.

[jckstraw72]

if youre near Paramus there's a great OCA parish there ... i think its Christ the Savior.

[All4Christ]

What area of New Jersey are you from? My boyfriend lifes near Flemington, NJ and goes to St Mark's (OCA)- but it is in PA. It's about a half hour from his house...but it's a good church. If you're close enough - here's the address: 452 Durham Road, Wrightstown, PA. Besides that - I know there is a Greek church that is actually in NJ near Flemington - but I don't know the name :)

[Julina]

I felt the same way after my first visit to an Orthodox Church.

I would encourage you to look at this website to answer many of your questions: http://www.orthodoxyinamerica.org/ It is just about the best place to go to find a local Orthodox Church. But there are also articles about some of the basic things that you are asking too.

Before you get too far into the idea of "fasting" I would encourage you start attending a parish and talk to the Priest there for direction. However, just for a brief discussion, most of the year we fast from certain foods (and amounts of foods) on Wednesday and Friday's. We have the "Peter and Paul" fast coming up which usually last about a week. The first two weeks in August we have a fast called the "Dormition of Theotokos" fast. This is in memory of the death of Mary the mother of Christ.

During these fast we also are only refraining from certain foods, not all foods.

The only time we fast from all foods is from midnight Saturday until after we receive the Eucharist on Sunday at Church.

All fasts are to be directed by our Priests and there are exceptions made for those new to the faith, those with medical conditions, those living with nonOrthodox, pregnant women, children and for maybe other reasons.

We refrain from dairy foods, meat, and eggs. Some days we also refrain from wine and oil and fish.

In the "fish" department, seafood with no backbone are allowed. (Such as shrimp or lobster).

Fasting is not very good if it does not also involve increased prayers and giving to others (such as to the poor or to charity.) Fasting can also involve not being on the computer as much, or watching as much TV. I usually try to limit the reading of fiction during fast so that I will have more time for spiritual reading and bible reading for example.

Again, fasting is done under the direction of one's Priest. But there are inquirers and catechumen's who follow the fast. We just strongly encourage you to be under the direction of the local Priest because fasting is an acetic practice and as such it can not only give spiritual blessings, it can also cause spiritual problems. A Priest can help look out for such things and properly advise.

i've been to that website many times! i found that there are about five Orthodox Churches nearby, and they're all Russian. i live in the monmouth/ocean county area.

i have fasted before. i gave up meat for Lent, but i couldn't go any further because it's nearly impossible with limited food options.
i remember i also started praying more during Lent.

you mentioned the fast for the Dormition of the Theotokos, but did Mary actually die?

[Orthocat]

Juliana, you would be amazed how many times I have heard this...

That after Orthodox services others just don't feel right.
Not "complete" is a very true statement.

I'm not familiar with your area but do the Russian Churches have any english? Many now do!

Good luck and Gospodi pomilloy!

[Ramon96]

you mentioned the fast for the Dormition of the Theotokos, but did Mary actually die?

As far as the Orthodox Tradition is concern, we believe she did died (according to Tradition, in the presence of the Holy Apostles, except the Apostle Thomas who came after she died, after that they all discover that her tomb was empty). Prior to her death, she was visited by the Archangel Gabriel who told her of her upcoming departure. At death, Christ receive her Soul. But three days after her death (a image of Christ's Resurrection), Christ reunited her soul with her body and thus was resurrected and taken to Heaven. She now intercede on our behalf, along with the Holy Saints and Holy Angels. Also, her tomb is said to be Jersualem.

Some Scriptural texts alludes to the dormition of the Theotokos (Psalm 132:8, Rev 12:1 is said to be another allusion to the Dorminiton of the Theotokos).


Jesus Christ, Son of God, Have Mercy Upon Me a Sinner. Amen!
IC.XC.

[Julina]

I'm not familiar with your area but do the Russian Churches have any english? Many now do!


the ones near me have services in Slavonic for the most part. i've thought about teaching myself a little so i could follow along.

As far as the Orthodox Tradition is concern, we believe she did died (according to Tradition, in the presence of the Holy Apostles, except the Apostle Thomas who came after she died, after they all discover that her tomb was empty). Prior to her death, she was visited by the Archangel Gabriel who told her of her upcoming departure. Three days after her death (a image of Christ), Christ reunited her soul and her body and thus was resurrected and taken to Heaven.

i thought She was just lifted up into heaven. or is that a Catholic belief? oh, i get so confused sometimes! :confused:

speaking of being confused, i've been crossing myself the Orthodox way in the Episcopal services. i keep worrying that someone's going to notice (not that it's a bad thing but it might be a little awkward to explain since i'm the priest's daughter).

i found some Orthodox chants in the hymnal!

also, this is completely random, but i just realized that i'm the only Christian among my group of friends here back at home.

[Ramon96]

i thought She was just lifted up into heaven. or is that a Catholic belief? oh, i get so confused sometimes! :confused:

speaking of being confused, i've been crossing myself the Orthodox way in the Episcopal services. i keep worrying that someone's going to notice (not that it's a bad thing but it might be a little awkward to explain since i'm the priest's daughter).

First, We believed she was "assumed" into Heaven as the Catholics believe. The only difference is that we Orthodox believe she really died, while Catholics have a choice of either believing she didn't die and was assumed into heaven [body and soul] (which seems to be the belief of the majority of Catholics) or she died and was later [three days] assumed into Heaven by Christ (Orthodox Position).

Second, I do not really think anyone would notice you crossing yourself the Orthodox way. Unless they spying on you :)

Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, Have Mercy Upon Me a Sinner. Amen!
IC.XC.

[Orthocat]

"also, this is completely random, but i just realized that i'm the only Christian among my group of friends here back at home."


ah, so you're a missionary :)

This may help a little in keeping up with the Slavonic -
http://www.fatheralexander.org/booklets/english/liturgy_e.htm

This website has audio and gives you the pronunciation for many prayers:

http://www.orthodoxepubsoc.org/

[-Kyriaki-]

Noone notices me crossing myself weird at my grandmother's episcopalian church :)

As to services in another language - see if you can go anyway, because especially if you have a service book you'll be amazed how much not understanding the words won't matter. Both my parishes are in foreign languages and it was weird for a while, but I got used to it quickly and now it's normal. The only thing I miss is the changeable hymns, but usually I get to hear that at Vespers (which I go to all in English) which helps.

[Macarius]

If there's one that's all English near-by, or incorporates both English and Church Slavonic, then try to go to that one.

If not, then it is more important to go to Church than to find one in English. As Kyrie said, you can adjust. You may even be the presence in that Church that brings out the occasional use of English, making the service more accessible to others ;)

Catholics are required to believe in the Assumption of Mary - that she did not die but was assumed body and soul. It was proclaimed "infallibly" by the Pope - one of only two instances where the Pope explicitly invoked papal infallibility.

We are permitted to believe that she did not die, or did die and was assumed bodily. So far as I can tell, Kalistos Ware believes in the Catholic-style assumption. Some of the early traditions point to stories of her death, but these mostly date from the late 4th century and onwords. In other words - quite late.

In general, we celebrate her death, and our hymnity focuses on those stories, but there is no dogma surrounding them. Mariology isn't a subset of theology - it's a private treasure of the Church, not a doctrinal matter (except where it impacts the incarnation, as in calling her Theotokos).

As for telling parents: I bought an icon, and when they asked, I mentioned I was exploring Eastern Christianity. I invited them to a service, and answered there questions as they came up. Then, when I converted, I told them (but they saw it coming, since I'd had them in the loop of my exploration).

If your dad is a priest, that's a bit trickier. My wife's father is a minister / missionary for a Protestant group, and we have to... avoid... certain conversations (ie sola scriptura). It's best to tell them, and then to avoid, at all costs, debating the issues. Don't let them try to convince you away from it, but don't try to convince them towards it. You're at a point in your life when you can undergo this sort of explanation without the oversight of parents, but at the same time, to preserve the relationship of family and to love them, it is critical not to try and convert them.

My prayers are with you!

In Christ,
Macarius

[-Kyriaki-]

I'd just like to "amen" everything Macarius said. If you have an english/partly english speaking parish, then please go there! I just meant to say that you shouldn't think attending a Church in a foreign language is as hard as it might seem :)

And what he said about your parents - it's all true, and good advice. I still live at home all the time (not at college), and my dad's not a pastor but he has been an elder in the church I grew up in for most of my life and spends a lot of his free time reading and discussing theology, so I have to be careful when I'm trying to talk about things with him. Sometimes there's the inevitable, too - my sister, who is not particularly interested in theology and quite frankly thinks I'm crazy a lot, has been known to jump in on our conversations and say 'didn't you guys argue about closed communion (or whatever) last week? give it a rest already!' Most of the time it's peaceful though...and a lot of the time when we do argue, it's because I said something I shouldn't have. But my parents appreciate the fact that I've kept them in the loop with my conversion, and because of this even though we don't always agree they accept and support my decision.

My prayers are with you :)

[rusmeister]

the ones near me have services in Slavonic for the most part. i've thought about teaching myself a little so i could follow along.

Hey Julina - have to tell you my story some time. In extreme short, I moved to Russia, and was immersed in Slavonic liturgy by necessity, Now it's a breeze, although I still get lost when they go into special troparia, Psalm readings, etc.
You definitely want a bilingual text for 2-3 years...

[Julina]

"also, this is completely random, but i just realized that i'm the only Christian among my group of friends here back at home."


ah, so you're a missionary :)

This may help a little in keeping up with the Slavonic -
http://www.fatheralexander.org/booklets/english/liturgy_e.htm

This website has audio and gives you the pronunciation for many prayers:

http://www.orthodoxepubsoc.org/

that's so awesome! thank you! does the Father Alexander link hae the whole liturgy?

and yes i'm kind of a missionary. i try to explain things but still no one has any idea.

[Julina]

The only difference is that we Orthodox believe she really died, while Catholics have a choice of either believing she didn't die and was assumed into heaven [body and soul] (which seems to be the belief of the majority of Catholics) or she died and was later [three days] assumed into Heaven by Christ (Orthodox Position).

Catholics are required to believe in the Assumption of Mary - that she did not die but was assumed body and soul. It was proclaimed "infallibly" by the Pope - one of only two instances where the Pope explicitly invoked papal infallibility.

We are permitted to believe that she did not die, or did die and was assumed bodily.
are these both right?

[Julina]

thanks for the dealing-with-parents advice and prayers. :)
both my parents converted to Episcopalianism (my dad was Roman Catholic and my mum was Presbyterian), so i think they might be a bit more understanding. they always ask me questions.
oddly enough, i think my dad has less of a problem with this than my mum. she thought that Orthodox Christianity was really "exclusive", but that's not the impression that i got at all. i'm just curious as to what kind of Orthodox Christians she knew.

[-Kyriaki-]

From what I see, the first is simply stating more fully one of the options given in the second. I don't think they disagree :)

It seems to me that they both say the same thing, except that the first should say that the Orthodox have a choice too. But everything else is right, I think.

EDITED TO ADD:
you posted while I was posting, so I'll add this so I won't be backtoback. I've heard the same thing about exclusivity, and I don't know who they're talking about either! It's not something I've encountered, maybe it was more common in years past.
One thing I suppose they could call exclusive is that we practice closed Communion and believe in 'one true Church', but then so do the Catholics so I don't think it's fair to throw that label and us and not them! :) Every Orthodox Church I've been to has been very welcoming.

[Akathist]

This OCA church has services in english: http://holy-annunciation-church.org/

and I think it is close to you if I understand where you are from. (I used the zip code for the food bank that is for both counties you mentioned in your post above.)

Also, this is what their website says: Our parish is located at the New Jersey Shore, and is easily accessible from
Ocean and Monmouth Counties.

[Rowan]

Catholics are required to believe in the Assumption of Mary - that she did not die but was assumed body and soul. It was proclaimed "infallibly" by the Pope - one of only two instances where the Pope explicitly invoked papal infallibility.


Some Catholics believe that Mary died before she was assumed into heaven as Queen.

Last year there was a poll in OBOB that proves that (with Mary dying before the assumption being in the majority on OBOB).

[Akathist]

Every year the local monestary has a feast celebration as the name of the monestary is "The Dormition of Theotokos". Last year they had rocks from the wall of the tomb of Theotokos present.

Just being near them was a very calming feeling for me. I just could feel that they had been in the presense of great holiness.

[Macarius]

are these both right?

Eh - I might be wrong. I was intentionally contradicting what had been previously said, but probably spoke too soon. :sorry:


Some Catholics believe that Mary died before she was assumed into heaven as Queen.

Last year there was a poll in OBOB that proves that (with Mary dying before the assumption being in the majority on OBOB).


I checked the catechism, and this seems consistent with what you are saying. It says that "when the course of her earthly life had finished..." then goes on to profess the bodily assumption.

I had been under the impression that Catholics were required to believe she did not die first. I'll ask the priest at the Catholic High School I work at.

If they don't, then they have 2 options to our 3: we can believe that she was bodily assumed into heaven, but did not die, or that she was bodily assumed into heaven and did die. Finally, we can believe she was NOT bodily assumed into heaven, but did die. It would be wierd to say she wasn't bodily assumed and did not die... so I think it's safe to say that's eliminated.

Catholics must affirm bodily assumption - that's what was declared infallibly... I'll check with the priest.

Sorry for the confusion!!

In Christ,
Macarius

[Matrona]

If they don't, then they have 2 options to our 3: we can believe that she was bodily assumed into heaven, but did not die, or that she was bodily assumed into heaven and did die. Finally, we can believe she was NOT bodily assumed into heaven, but did die. It would be wierd to say she wasn't bodily assumed and did not die... so I think it's safe to say that's eliminated.

No, it's a fact that she did die. Orthodox can believe or not believe that her dead body was assumed into heaven afterwards to be reunited with her soul as a foretaste of the general resurrection. But the Dormition is a remembrance of her death.

[Julina]

how is all this known about Mary?

[Julina]

i think my parents' biggest concern with my converting is that we wouldn't be able to take communion at each others' churches. my solution was we could all go to a Catholic church where none of us would be allowed to. :P

i think i've developed an interest in Russian cuture ever since looking into Orthodoxy.