Birth Pains -Do you feel them coming?

[Tishri1]

What has happened around you that was the final straw on the camels back so to speak that told you this?

For me it was the law passed legalizing gay marriage ..... I see it all as a sign along with higher gas prices and weather related tramma....

But it was this law that kinda made it a for sure thing for me.

Up until then I was just pondering all these things in my heart, now I am feeling it physically in my gut.

I was going to post this in Ivy's thread on the Kingdom, and decided to start a new one instead to ask, what do you feel ? Is it birth PAINS to you? And if so describe it for us?
Matthew 24:37-39 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=24&verse=37&end_verse=39&version=49&context=context)

37"For the (A (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=24&verse=37&end_verse=39&version=49&context=context#cen-NASB-23995A))coming of the Son of Man will be (B (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=24&verse=37&end_verse=39&version=49&context=context#cen-NASB-23995B))just like the days of Noah. 38"For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, (C (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=24&verse=37&end_verse=39&version=49&context=context#cen-NASB-23996C))marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that (D (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=24&verse=37&end_verse=39&version=49&context=context#cen-NASB-23996D))Noah entered the ark,
39and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the (E (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=24&verse=37&end_verse=39&version=49&context=context#cen-NASB-23997E))coming of the Son of Man be.

[Lulav]

Do you believe in a 'rapture' Tishri?

If you are looking for signs, I'd say one to me is the pharmaceuticals. Everyone is on drugs, it will soon be illegal to posses vitamins? Is that not a world turned upside down?

[Tishri1]

It sure is a world upside down.....Was that when you knew we were in birthpains?....It says when they come they wont stop we can only expect more. And many will ignore these signs, but many others will feel them, I know some of us have been feeling them for a while now..

When did you first start to feel them and what triggered them for you?

[Steve Petersen]

The Roman Empire endured nearly 500 years; they not only practised homosexuality, but embraced it.

You make no allowance for the good we do in the world.

I think we have some time left.

[Kris10leigh]

Honestly I'm too much of an optomist to see these "birth pains" and have never really stopped to think about it.

I suppose at the moment I am having moments of envisioning the fall of America because we are so very dependent on oil for absolutely everything.

And I just can't leave this thread without saying I am PRO gay marriage. ;) (Just had to make that known) I think only good can come of a commitment in a relationship that is already in existence anyway.

[Lulav]

The Roman Empire endured nearly 500 years; they not only practised homosexuality, but embraced it.

You make no allowance for the good we do in the world.

I think we have some time left. And America is different, how?

[Steve Petersen]

And America is different, how?

Oh, I don't know.

How about the fact that we feed 40% of the world.

How about the fact that we helped liquidate Nazism and Communism.

How about the fact we give more charity than any other nation on earth.

How about the fact we allow religious freedom, even to people who might be our enemies.

How about the fact the we have borne the lion's share of the defense burden in Europe for 60 years.

[Lulav]

Oh, I don't know.

How about the fact that we feed 40% of the world.

How about the fact that we helped liquidate Nazism and Communism.

How about the fact we give more charity than any other nation on earth.

How about the fact we allow religious freedom, even to people who might be our enemies.

How about the fact the we have borne the lion's share of the defense burden in Europe for 60 years.

Yet there are those starving to death in our own country, widows aren't taken care of, or children who live in squaller?

Nazism? That is alive and well in this country and in Germany last I heard, and there are still many countries under communism.

Religious freedom? Like you can't mention the name of Jesus just about anywhere without repercussions? But Islam is a peaceful religion you can say all you want?

Giving Charity to the world? Doing for others before you do for your own is not a virtue I have seen Hashem say we should seek.

And not to mention how this country during the war turned away many a boat of Jews to only be returned to Germany and Poland and the slaughterhouses, is that your idea of charity? Not mine.

And most recent, now our 'Christian' President is ignoring G-ds word, which has been pointed out to him time and again by at least a handful of prominent believers about just who Israel belongs to and that G-d would return his people there and no one is to divide his land, and mock him by these constant pushes for a two state nation? To allow our ancient enemies the Philistines to rise above us again?

I believe the L-RD has been warning this country for a long time and she is too prideful to listen and we all know that pride goesth before the fall. 9/11, The Perfect Storm, Hurricane Katrina which was a very prominent spiritual warning, which the people of NO, shook their collective fists at G-d and said, we will rebuild, we will not stop our sinning, we will do it no matter what, and the nation pitched in to help them......................

[Steve Petersen]

Yet there are those starving to death in our own country, widows aren't taken care of, or children who live in squaller?

Really? How many starved to death in 2007?

Nazism? That is alive and well in this country and in Germany last I heard, and there are still many countries under communism.

Yes a few freaks still believe in Nazism, but that hardly constitutes the norm. Communists on the other hand still thrive on American college campuses.

Religious freedom? Like you can't mention the name of Jesus just about anywhere without repercussions? But Islam is a peaceful religion you can say all you want?

Name a country that has more religious freedom than we do?

Giving Charity to the world? Doing for others before you do for your own is not a virtue I have seen Hashem say we should seek.

We spend more dollars on social welfare programs than we did before Bush came in. Are you getting your money's worth? Trillions on the Great Society and people are still complaining about poverty.

And not to mention how this country during the war turned away many a boat of Jews to only be returned to Germany and Poland and the slaughterhouses, is that your idea of charity? Not mine.

We have already paid the debt for that. We lost more men on Omaha beach.

And most recent, now our 'Christian' President is ignoring G-ds word, which has been pointed out to him time and again by at least a handful of prominent believers about just who Israel belongs to and that G-d would return his people there and no one is to divide his land, and mock him by these constant pushes for a two state nation? To allow our ancient enemies the Philistines to rise above us again?

Have you forgotten the fact that the US was the first nation to recognize Israel in 1948?

Have you forgotten the oil embargo that OPEC laid on us for our support of Israel in the Yom Kippur war?

If the Israelis are willing to part with land in order to have peace, why would you expect the President to ignore that?

I believe the L-RD has been warning this country for a long time and she is too prideful to listen and we all know that pride goesth before the fall. 9/11, The Perfect Storm, Hurricane Katrina which was a very prominent spiritual warning, which the people of NO, shook their collective fists at G-d and said, we will rebuild, we will not stop our sinning, we will do it no matter what, and the nation pitched in to help them......................

So, God is only responsible when BAD things happen to the US?

Things happen. It isn't alway God.

[The Time Traveller]

From Kris10leigh
"I think only good can come of a commitment in a relationship that is already in existence anyway."

The A-Bomb and the H-Bomb had a committed relationship. Not much good came of that relationship.

Born Again Christians flee from such relationships. Paul says to 'Put off the old man and put on the new' Colossians 3: 5 - 17

[Kris10leigh]

From Kris10leigh
"I think only good can come of a commitment in a relationship that is already in existence anyway."

The A-Bomb and the H-Bomb had a committed relationship. Not much good came of that relationship.

Born Again Christians flee from such relationships. Paul says to 'Put off the old man and put on the new' Colossians 3: 5 - 17
I am not a born again Christian. ;) Man, I'd love to discuss this, but it would be a total and absolute derail!! Tishri, why'd ya have to bring it up? ^_^;)

[Steve Petersen]

By the time the A-bomb was dropped, the Japanese were murdering 250,000 asians per month (Koreans, Chinese, etc.) Dropping the bomb saved countless Asian as well as American lives. Doesn't the Torah command people not to sit idly by while their neigbor is dragged to his death?

[The Time Traveller]

Hi Kris10leigh

I too 'was called a transgressor from the womb' Isaiah 48:8, that's why I had to be born again, and I was on the 29th Sept. 1960 at the age of 20.

[Skeeterbug]

I pay attention to what is going on in Isreal. I watch the news everyday live from Isreal and there is a lot going on there that is not being reported the US press. What happens in Isreal will be the key to everything

[Tishri1]

The Roman Empire endured nearly 500 years; they not only practised homosexuality, but embraced it.

You make no allowance for the good we do in the world.

I think we have some time left.fair enough , I do see the good we do repairing the world and I know Abba will say well done to his faithful servants

[Tishri1]

I am not a born again Christian. ;) Man, I'd love to discuss this, but it would be a total and absolute derail!! Tishri, why'd ya have to bring it up? ^_^;)Well it would be nice to hear from those who DO feel the birth pains:thumbsup:

Today I was talking to two Messianics who have each heard God's opinion on the Human Trafficking that has gone underground in this country...HE WANTS IT STOPPED is what one told us, the other said it was a stench in his nose....That sounds like its not a request to take lightly//////A birth pain perhaps?

[Henaynei]

Well it would be nice to hear from those who DO feel the birth pains:thumbsup:

Today I was talking to two Messianics who have each heard God's opinion on the Human Trafficking that has gone underground in this country...HE WANTS IT STOPPED is what one told us, the other said it was a stench in his nose....That sounds like its not a request to take lightly//////A birth pain perhaps? ;) you don't have to "hear from G-d" to know that... His Word Testifies and the Ruakh bears Witness... :cry:

[ContraMundum]

How about the fact that we feed 40% of the world.

...about 40 years ago, maybe. Now the US consumes the most food (and resources) in the world, and is reliant on cheap imports to feed its lower classes.

How about the fact that we helped liquidate Nazism and Communism.

So did other countries....lots of them, actually, and some paid more of a price (eg USSR). Not really much of a mark for being unique, actually.

How about the fact we give more charity than any other nation on earth.

Not even close. In fact, when the Tsumani in Indonesia happened, the US ranked far behind countries with lesser populations. It was upstaged by a lot of smaller countries.

How about the fact we allow religious freedom, even to people who might be our enemies.

Most countries do that. In fact, I'd guess that the vast majority of the world's population enjoy religious freedom and have far less social problems.

How about the fact the we have borne the lion's share of the defense burden in Europe for 60 years.

Considering Europe hasn't been attacked in 60 years, that sounds more like chest beating than true. What is interesting is that the US is the only non-European nation that has attacked a part of Europe (Serbia) in 60 years.

[ContraMundum]

By the time the A-bomb was dropped, the Japanese were murdering 250,000 asians per month (Koreans, Chinese, etc.) Dropping the bomb saved countless Asian as well as American lives.

Two wrongs don't make a right. Even the President knew that Japan would have surrendered without nuking those poor women and children.

Everytime I hear someone trying to justify Hiroshima and Nagasaki I feel sick to my stomach.

Doesn't the Torah command people not to sit idly by while their neigbor is dragged to his death?

The Torah is rather more selective about who one's neighbour is. As pointed out on another thread, some people are to be left to die. Thank God the Messiah cleared that question up.

[ContraMundum]

Birth pangs. Hmmmmmmmm....well....I'm not that pessimistic about the future. For example, I think the Bible teaches a victory of the Gospel, and I look forward to the day when fuel is so expensive that we are forced to switch to clean energy and the ruling classes get off their backside and make a car that runs on something other than what funds our enemies' terror plans! Bring it on!

I'm sure things must look very bad for some people- but it will work out for good in the end.

[Henaynei]

Birth pangs....

depravity and sin are not signs of birth pangs - any serious student of history can point to times where such were worse.... yes, I agree it is getting worse all the time... but to paraphrase Yeshua 'the depraved you will always have with you (and your government will always eventually sanction it...)'

What I see as true signs is this:

The increasing "revivals" and "new" move of the "Spirit" ----
crowds coming from all over the face of the earth seeking signs and wonders
"ministers" of the Gospel teashing crowds to seek these signs, that it is G-d's will, AND teacing them to seek angelic visitations from angels called Money and Prosperity...
"ministers" mocking G-d and His word and saying G-d told them to do so.....

THIS is the sign of the times..... G-d did NOT say there would be great revivals in the end times.... He DID say there would be a great "falling away" of the elect....

Read below what Yeshua said would happen to those who clung to and preached the real Truth. Keep in mind he was talking to and about believers.

Matthew 10
14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet. 15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.
16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. 17 But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues; 18 And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles. 19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. 20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you. 21 And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death. 22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved. 23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come. 24 The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord. 25 It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household? 26 Fear them not therefore: for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known. 27 What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops. 28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. The time is getting short.

What did Paul say about why Believers will act this way??
2Timothy 4
2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4 And they shall turn away their ears from the Truth, and shall be turned unto fables. 5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry. THIS my brother is Why....

The time is not yet for his return, but it may be closer than we think.
2Thessalonians 2
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called G-d, or that is worshipped; so that he as G-d sitteth in the temple of G-d, shewing himself that he is G-d. 5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the L-rd shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause G-d shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. We MUST continue to broadcast the Truth to the end that as many as possible, as many as whose hearts are able to receive.... that they might be saved!!
Matthew 24
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25 Behold, I have told you before. 26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

[Steve Petersen]

[quote=ContraMundum;47199334So did other countries....lots of them, actually, and some paid more of a price (eg USSR). Not really much of a mark for being unique, actually.[/quote]

This is not an argument about uniqueness, rather on whether we merit the judgement of God.

[ContraMundum]

This is not an argument about uniqueness, rather on whether we merit the judgement of God.

The idea of a "righteous America" is unscriptural (all have sinned etc.) and will not avert the judgement of God. All nations and peoples will be and are judged. I had no idea you believed that God that judges on merit and good works alone. Perhaps the good deeds of the US have stopped a swifter judgement, but it will come- just like it does for all nations. On the other hand, even if it were a case of deed weighing, I think the bad will soon outweigh the good (if it hasn't already), so good deeds will not save that nation, because there is never enough to make up for the bad.

[Tishri1]

Birth pangs. Hmmmmmmmm....well....I'm not that pessimistic about the future. For example, I think the Bible teaches a victory of the Gospel, and I look forward to the day when fuel is so expensive that we are forced to switch to clean energy and the ruling classes get off their backside and make a car that runs on something other than what funds our enemies' terror plans! Bring it on!

I'm sure things must look very bad for some people- but it will work out for good in the end.Well you all know I am definitely NOT pessimistic too..... and you dont have to be to look at the signs of the times....Im not asking for those who DONT feel the birth pains I am asking for those who do....they are the ones I want to talk about here..... as something is stirring in them that is not normal for them, not an everyday feeling, and it doesnt have to be gloomy as I am sooooo excited about Yeshua's return, but we know certain "Birth Pains" must happen in the world at some point and I wonder who out their feels them?

[Tishri1]

.... the bad will soon outweigh the good (if it hasn't already), so good deeds will not save that nation, because there is never enough to make up for the bad.I always wondered/ believed that having been a support to Israel that our Nation had that grace from the Lord.... I dont Know but am hoping that we stay one of their allies.

[Henaynei]

[quote=ContraMundum;47199334Not even close. In fact, when the Tsumani in Indonesia happened, the US ranked far behind countries with lesser populations. It was upstaged by a lot of smaller countries.[/quote]
According to the UN the US has paid OVER 25% of the total paid by all nations

I added it up: (http://ocha.unog.ch/fts/reports/daily/ocha_R10_E14794___08060207.pdf)
US paid approximately $234,347,624 - there was no total and I had to add a column of over 30 figures using my lap top and my fickle fingers - I know I missed a digit several times...

total paid to the UN to the Tsunami
6,246,583,899

I would ask where you have gotten your figures?

[Tishri1]

Henny this is good stuff




Matthew 10

Jesus Sends Out the Twelve

1He called his twelve disciples to him and gave them authority to drive out evil[a (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=10&version=31#fen-NIV-23419a)] spirits and to heal every disease and sickness. 2These are the names of the twelve apostles: first, Simon (who is called Peter) and his brother Andrew; James son of Zebedee, and his brother John; 3Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus; 4Simon the Zealot and Judas Iscariot, who betrayed him.
5These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: "Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. 6Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel. 7As you go, preach this message: 'The kingdom of heaven is near.' 8Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy,[b (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=10&version=31#fen-NIV-23426b)]drive out demons. Freely you have received, freely give. 9Do not take along any gold or silver or copper in your belts; 10take no bag for the journey, or extra tunic, or sandals or a staff; for the worker is worth his keep.
11"Whatever town or village you enter, search for some worthy person there and stay at his house until you leave. 12As you enter the home, give it your greeting. 13If the home is deserving, let your peace rest on it; if it is not, let your peace return to you. 14If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, shake the dust off your feet when you leave that home or town. 15I tell you the truth, it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town. 16I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves.
17"Be on your guard against men; they will hand you over to the local councils and flog you in their synagogues. 18On my account you will be brought before governors and kings as witnesses to them and to the Gentiles. 19But when they arrest you, do not worry about what to say or how to say it. At that time you will be given what to say, 20for it will not be you speaking, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you.
21"Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; children will rebel against their parents and have them put to death. 22All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. 23When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. I tell you the truth, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes.
24"A student is not above his teacher, nor a servant above his master. 25It is enough for the student to be like his teacher, and the servant like his master. If the head of the house has been called Beelzebub,[c (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=10&version=31#fen-NIV-23443c)] how much more the members of his household!
26"So do not be afraid of them. There is nothing concealed that will not be disclosed, or hidden that will not be made known. 27What I tell you in the dark, speak in the daylight; what is whispered in your ear, proclaim from the roofs. 28Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell. 29Are not two sparrows sold for a penny[d (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=10&version=31#fen-NIV-23447d)]? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground apart from the will of your Father. 30And even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. 31So don't be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows.
32"Whoever acknowledges me before men, I will also acknowledge him before my Father in heaven. 33But whoever disowns me before men, I will disown him before my Father in heaven.
34"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn
" 'a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law -
36a man's enemies will be the members of his own household.'[e (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=10&version=31#fen-NIV-23454e)]
37"Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; 38and anyone who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.
40"He who receives you receives me, and he who receives me receives the one who sent me. 41Anyone who receives a prophet because he is a prophet will receive a prophet's reward, and anyone who receives a righteous man because he is a righteous man will receive a righteous man's reward. 42And if anyone gives even a cup of cold water to one of these little ones because he is my disciple, I tell you the truth, he will certainly not lose his reward."

[Tishri1]

And this too

2 Thessalonians 2

The Man of Lawlessness

1Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers, 2not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the day of the Lord has already come. 3Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for (that day will not come) until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness[a (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Thessalonians%202&version=31#fen-NIV-29649a)] is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God. 5Don't you remember that when I was with you I used to tell you these things? 6And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. 7For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. 8And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming. 9The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, 10and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.
Stand Firm

13But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers loved by the Lord, because from the beginning God chose you[b (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Thessalonians%202&version=31#fen-NIV-29659b)] to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth. 14He called you to this through our gospel, that you might share in the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings[c (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Thessalonians%202&version=31#fen-NIV-29661c)] we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter. 16May our Lord Jesus Christ himself and God our Father, who loved us and by his grace gave us eternal encouragement and good hope, 17encourage your hearts and strengthen you in every good deed and word.

[Tishri1]

and this....I like to read whole chapters sometimes to get the context

Matthew 24

Signs of the End of the Age

1Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. 2"Do you see all these things?" he asked. "I tell you the truth, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down." 3As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. "Tell us," they said, "when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?"[Three Questions]

4Jesus answered: "Watch out that no one deceives you. 5For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am the Christ,[a (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=24&version=31#fen-NIV-23960a)]' and will deceive many. 6You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8All these are the beginning of birth pains.
9"Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
15"So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination that causes desolation,' spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17Let no one on the roof of his house go down to take anything out of the house. 18Let no one in the field go back to get his cloak. 19How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again. 22If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23At that time if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or, 'There he is!' do not believe it. 24For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible. 25See, I have told you ahead of time.
26"So if anyone tells you, 'There he is, out in the desert,' do not go out; or, 'Here he is, in the inner rooms,' do not believe it. 27For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather. [answer to the first question]
29"Immediately after the distress of those days
" 'the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.'[c (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=24&version=31#fen-NIV-23984c)]
30"At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. 31And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
32"Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it[d (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=24&version=31#fen-NIV-23988d)]is near, right at the door. 34I tell you the truth, this generation[e (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=24&version=31#fen-NIV-23989e)] will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.[answer to the second question]
[B]The Day and Hour Unknown

36"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,[f (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=24&version=31#fen-NIV-23991f)] but only the Father. 37As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left. 42"Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. 43But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.
45"Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time? 46It will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns. 47I tell you the truth, he will put him in charge of all his possessions. 48But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, 'My master is staying away a long time,' 49and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. 50The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. 51He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.



and there is more.....

[Tishri1]

Matthew 25

The Parable of the Ten Virgins

1"At that time the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. 2Five of them were foolish and five were wise. 3The foolish ones took their lamps but did not take any oil with them. 4The wise, however, took oil in jars along with their lamps. 5The bridegroom was a long time in coming, and they all became drowsy and fell asleep. 6"At midnight the cry rang out: 'Here's the bridegroom! Come out to meet him!'
7"Then all the virgins woke up and trimmed their lamps. 8The foolish ones said to the wise, 'Give us some of your oil; our lamps are going out.'
9" 'No,' they replied, 'there may not be enough for both us and you. Instead, go to those who sell oil and buy some for yourselves.'
10"But while they were on their way to buy the oil, the bridegroom arrived. The virgins who were ready went in with him to the wedding banquet. And the door was shut.
11"Later the others also came. 'Sir! Sir!' they said. 'Open the door for us!'
12"But he replied, 'I tell you the truth, I don't know you.'
13"Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour.
The Parable of the Talents

14"Again, it will be like a man going on a journey, who called his servants and entrusted his property to them. 15To one he gave five talents[a (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mathew%2025;&version=31;#fen-NIV-24021a)] of money, to another two talents, and to another one talent, each according to his ability. Then he went on his journey. 16The man who had received the five talents went at once and put his money to work and gained five more. 17So also, the one with the two talents gained two more. 18But the man who had received the one talent went off, dug a hole in the ground and hid his master's money. 19"After a long time the master of those servants returned and settled accounts with them. 20The man who had received the five talents brought the other five. 'Master,' he said, 'you entrusted me with five talents. See, I have gained five more.'
21"His master replied, 'Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master's happiness!'
22"The man with the two talents also came. 'Master,' he said, 'you entrusted me with two talents; see, I have gained two more.'
23"His master replied, 'Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master's happiness!'
24"Then the man who had received the one talent came. 'Master,' he said, 'I knew that you are a hard man, harvesting where you have not sown and gathering where you have not scattered seed. 25So I was afraid and went out and hid your talent in the ground. See, here is what belongs to you.'
26"His master replied, 'You wicked, lazy servant! So you knew that I harvest where I have not sown and gather where I have not scattered seed? 27Well then, you should have put my money on deposit with the bankers, so that when I returned I would have received it back with interest.
28" 'Take the talent from him and give it to the one who has the ten talents. 29For everyone who has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. 30And throw that worthless servant outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'
The Sheep and the Goats

31"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. 34"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'
37"Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'
40"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'
41"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'
44"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'
45"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'
46"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."[answer to the third question]

[Steve Petersen]

The idea of a "righteous America" is unscriptural (all have sinned etc.) and will not avert the judgement of God. All nations and peoples will be and are judged. I had no idea you believed that God that judges on merit and good works alone. Perhaps the good deeds of the US have stopped a swifter judgement, but it will come- just like it does for all nations. On the other hand, even if it were a case of deed weighing, I think the bad will soon outweigh the good (if it hasn't already), so good deeds will not save that nation, because there is never enough to make up for the bad.

The basis for the idea that nations are judged on merit is biblical and is based on Deuteronomy 28 and 29. Look also at the book of Daniel: 'You have been weighed in the balances and found wanting.'

Many Jewish prayers petition God for favor based on the MERITS of the ancestors of the Jewish people.

Moses interceded on behalf of Israel after the sin of the Golden Calf by pleading with God on the basis of any FAVOR Moses had found in God's eyes.



Earlier in my faith walk I used to pray for judgement to come. Then I learned you can't take up another person's offense (in this case God's, if indeed He is offended.) I was projecting my wishes on to Him.

[Ivy]

I don't think there is any other way for this nation to come back to God than through some hardship. The fact that we are now feeling some, is a sign of the mercy of God, that he still cares about our nation, that there is hope for revival.

Proud people who think they don't need anything think they don't need God, either.....that's a description of our country. It's good if people realize their "mammon" god is failing them.

[ContraMundum]

According to the UN the US has paid OVER 25% of the total paid by all nations

I added it up: (http://ocha.unog.ch/fts/reports/daily/ocha_R10_E14794___08060207.pdf)
US paid approximately $234,347,624 - there was no total and I had to add a column of over 30 figures using my lap top and my fickle fingers - I know I missed a digit several times...

total paid to the UN to the Tsunami
6,246,583,899

Umm, to the UN? How about to NGO's? That was what I was referring to. Benevolence of the gov't and of the people are not the same all the time.

I would ask where you have gotten your figures?

You first! I'd like to see that...and I can't remember where I saw what I did but I'll look for it. It was a while back, obviously.

[ContraMundum]

The basis for the idea that nations are judged on merit is biblical and is based on Deuteronomy 28 and 29. Look also at the book of Daniel: 'You have been weighed in the balances and found wanting.'

Many Jewish prayers petition God for favor based on the MERITS of the ancestors of the Jewish people.

Moses interceded on behalf of Israel after the sin of the Golden Calf by pleading with God on the basis of any FAVOR Moses had found in God's eyes.



Earlier in my faith walk I used to pray for judgement to come. Then I learned you can't take up another person's offense (in this case God's, if indeed He is offended.) I was projecting my wishes on to Him.

You misunderstood me bro! I was saying "by merits and good works alone". Surely you are not saying that, are you? What about the faith of a nation? Is that not what generates the meritorious deeds that are measured in judgement?

[Steve Petersen]

You misunderstood me bro! I was saying "by merits and good works alone". Surely you are not saying that, are you? What about the faith of a nation? Is that not what generates the meritorious deeds that are measured in judgement?


Faith is such a chimera.

There are many non-religious people who do good deeds. If people are doing the right thing, I don't care what the motive.

[ContraMundum]

Faith is such a chimera.

There are many non-religious people who do good deeds. If people are doing the right thing, I don't care what the motive.

I completely understand your sentiments- from a purely human perspective that's the way we all think.

However, as we both know, God sees things differently. Remember God's promises to bless Israel were always on the condition that they would turn to Him in faith.

[Tishri1]

Our nation does need to repent for Turning from God...all the Churches in my state alone would do well to repent and turn from sin and cry out for this place


thats what the season of repentance is for which is coming up soon enough
thats what the high holy days are for

I am sooooo thankful to Abba for setting this time apart for us for with out it the nation who is to be a light to all nations may forget God's purpose for them.....

The Birth Pains are associated with these Times and Seasons as well....

Isaiah 26:16-18 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=29&chapter=26&verse=16&end_verse=18&version=49&context=context)

O LORD, they sought You (A (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=29&chapter=26&verse=16&end_verse=18&version=49&context=context#cen-NASB-18147A))in distress;
They could only whisper a prayer,
Your chastening was upon them.
17(B (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=29&chapter=26&verse=16&end_verse=18&version=49&context=context#cen-NASB-18148B))As the pregnant woman approaches the time to give birth,
She writhes and cries out in her labor pains,
Thus were we before You, O LORD.
18We were pregnant, we writhed in labor,
We (C (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=29&chapter=26&verse=16&end_verse=18&version=49&context=context#cen-NASB-18149C))gave birth, as it seems, only to wind
We could not accomplish deliverance for the earth,
Nor were (D (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=29&chapter=26&verse=16&end_verse=18&version=49&context=context#cen-NASB-18149D))inhabitants of the world born.

[Tishri1]

Isaiah 26

Song of Trust in God's Protection (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=29&chapter=26&version=49)

1(A (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=29&chapter=26&version=49#cen-NASB-18132A))In that day this song will be sung in the land of Judah:
"We have a (B (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=29&chapter=26&version=49#cen-NASB-18132B))strong city;
He sets up walls and ramparts for (C (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=29&chapter=26&version=49#cen-NASB-18132C))security.
2"Open the (D (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=29&chapter=26&version=49#cen-NASB-18133D))gates, that the (E (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=29&chapter=26&version=49#cen-NASB-18133E))righteous nation may enter,
The one that remains faithful.
3"The steadfast of mind You will keep in perfect (F (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=29&chapter=26&version=49#cen-NASB-18134F))peace,
Because he trusts in You.
4"(G (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=29&chapter=26&version=49#cen-NASB-18135G))Trust in the LORD forever,
For in GOD the LORD, we have an everlasting (H (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=29&chapter=26&version=49#cen-NASB-18135H))Rock.
5"For He has brought low those who dwell on high, the (I (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=29&chapter=26&version=49#cen-NASB-18136I))unassailable city;
(J (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=29&chapter=26&version=49#cen-NASB-18136J))He lays it low, He lays it low to the ground, He casts it to the dust.
6"(K (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=29&chapter=26&version=49#cen-NASB-18137K))The foot will trample it,
The feet of the (L (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=29&chapter=26&version=49#cen-NASB-18137L))afflicted, the steps of the helpless."
7The (M (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=29&chapter=26&version=49#cen-NASB-18138M))way of the righteous is smooth;
O Upright One, (N (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=29&chapter=26&version=49#cen-NASB-18138N))make the path of the righteous level.
8Indeed, while following the way of (O (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=29&chapter=26&version=49#cen-NASB-18139O))Your judgments, O LORD,
We have waited for You eagerly;
(P (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=29&chapter=26&version=49#cen-NASB-18139P))Your name, even Your (Q (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=29&chapter=26&version=49#cen-NASB-18139Q))memory, is the desire of our souls.
9(R (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=29&chapter=26&version=49#cen-NASB-18140R))At night my soul longs for You,
Indeed, my spirit within me (S (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=29&chapter=26&version=49#cen-NASB-18140S))seeks You diligently;
For when the earth experiences Your judgments
The inhabitants of the world (T (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=29&chapter=26&version=49#cen-NASB-18140T))learn righteousness.
10Though the wicked is shown favor,
He does not (U (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=29&chapter=26&version=49#cen-NASB-18141U))learn righteousness;
He (V (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=29&chapter=26&version=49#cen-NASB-18141V))deals unjustly in the land of uprightness,
And does not perceive the majesty of the LORD.
11O LORD, Your hand is lifted up yet they (W (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=29&chapter=26&version=49#cen-NASB-18142W))do not see it
They see (X (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=29&chapter=26&version=49#cen-NASB-18142X))Your zeal for the people and are put to shame;
Indeed, (Y (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=29&chapter=26&version=49#cen-NASB-18142Y))fire will devour Your enemies.
12LORD, You will establish (Z (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=29&chapter=26&version=49#cen-NASB-18143Z))peace for us,
Since You have also performed for us all our works.
13O LORD our God, (AA (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=29&chapter=26&version=49#cen-NASB-18144AA))other masters besides You have ruled us;
But through You alone we (AB (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=29&chapter=26&version=49#cen-NASB-18144AB))confess Your name.
14(AC (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=29&chapter=26&version=49#cen-NASB-18145AC))The dead will not live, the departed spirits will not rise;
Therefore You have (AD (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=29&chapter=26&version=49#cen-NASB-18145AD))punished and destroyed them,
And You have wiped out all remembrance of them.
15(AE (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=29&chapter=26&version=49#cen-NASB-18146AE))You have increased the nation, O LORD,
You have increased the nation, You are glorified;
You have (AF (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=29&chapter=26&version=49#cen-NASB-18146AF))extended all the borders of the land.
16O LORD, they sought You (AG (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=29&chapter=26&version=49#cen-NASB-18147AG))in distress;
They could only whisper a prayer,
Your chastening was upon them.
17(AH (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=29&chapter=26&version=49#cen-NASB-18148AH))As the pregnant woman approaches the time to give birth,
She writhes and cries out in her labor pains,
Thus were we before You, O LORD.
18We were pregnant, we writhed in labor,
We (AI (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=29&chapter=26&version=49#cen-NASB-18149AI))gave birth, as it seems, only to wind
We could not accomplish deliverance for the earth,
Nor were (AJ (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=29&chapter=26&version=49#cen-NASB-18149AJ))inhabitants of the world born.
19Your (AK (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=29&chapter=26&version=49#cen-NASB-18150AK))dead will live;
Their corpses will rise
You who lie in the dust, (AL (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=29&chapter=26&version=49#cen-NASB-18150AL))awake and shout for joy,
For your dew is as the dew of the dawn,
And the earth will give birth to the departed spirits.
20Come, my people, (AM (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=29&chapter=26&version=49#cen-NASB-18151AM))enter into your rooms
And close your doors behind you;
Hide for a little (AN (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=29&chapter=26&version=49#cen-NASB-18151AN))while
Until (AO (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=29&chapter=26&version=49#cen-NASB-18151AO))indignation runs its course.
21For behold, the LORD is about to (AP (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=29&chapter=26&version=49#cen-NASB-18152AP))come out from His place
To (AQ (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=29&chapter=26&version=49#cen-NASB-18152AQ))punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity;
And the earth will (AR (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=29&chapter=26&version=49#cen-NASB-18152AR))reveal her bloodshed
And will no longer cover her slain.:)

[Starforsaken]

What has happened around you that was the final straw on the camels back so to speak that told you this?

For me it was the law passed legalizing gay marriage ..... I see it all as a sign along with higher gas prices and weather related tramma....

But it was this law that kinda made it a for sure thing for me.

Up until then I was just pondering all these things in my heart, now I am feeling it physically in my gut.

I was going to post this in Ivy's thread on the Kingdom, and decided to start a new one instead to ask, what do you feel ? Is it birth PAINS to you? And if so describe it for us?
Matthew 24:37-39 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=24&verse=37&end_verse=39&version=49&context=context)

37"For the (A (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=24&verse=37&end_verse=39&version=49&context=context#cen-NASB-23995A))coming of the Son of Man will be (B (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=24&verse=37&end_verse=39&version=49&context=context#cen-NASB-23995B))just like the days of Noah. 38"For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, (C (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=24&verse=37&end_verse=39&version=49&context=context#cen-NASB-23996C))marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that (D (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=24&verse=37&end_verse=39&version=49&context=context#cen-NASB-23996D))Noah entered the ark,
39and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the (E (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=24&verse=37&end_verse=39&version=49&context=context#cen-NASB-23997E))coming of the Son of Man be.

You do realize that there are places all over the Earth where countless people die everyday and have died for well over 500 years now due to lack war, famine, plague etc. But I see how rising gas prices and weather trauma are definite signs of the end times, I hadn't thought of it that way before! Legal gayness is by far the worst of the mix though.

[Tishri1]

I pay attention to what is going on in Isreal. I watch the news everyday live from Isreal and there is a lot going on there that is not being reported the US press. What happens in Isreal will be the key to everythingI believe this too:thumbsup:

[Tishri1]

You do realize that there are places all over the Earth where countless people die everyday and have died for well over 500 years now due to lack war, famine, plague etc. But I see how rising gas prices and weather trauma are definite signs of the end times, I hadn't thought of it that way before! Legal gayness is by far the worst of the mix though.WOW I cant tell you why but your post was significant today, thank you soooo much for posting......we need to pray about this:groupray:

[kivi]

The basis for the idea that nations are judged on merit is biblical and is based on Deuteronomy 28 and 29. Look also at the book of Daniel: 'You have been weighed in the balances and found wanting.'

Many Jewish prayers petition God for favor based on the MERITS of the ancestors of the Jewish people.

Moses interceded on behalf of Israel after the sin of the Golden Calf by pleading with God on the basis of any FAVOR Moses had found in God's eyes.



Earlier in my faith walk I used to pray for judgement to come. Then I learned you can't take up another person's offense (in this case God's, if indeed He is offended.) I was projecting my wishes on to Him.

kivi says: If I might comment on what you said that I highlighted in bold print? That is one of the wisest statements I have heard in a long time. I admire you on your tolerance, understanding and maturity. If I might use that statement in the future for myself? Respectfully, kivi

[kivi]

You do realize that there are places all over the Earth where countless people die everyday and have died for well over 500 years now due to lack war, famine, plague etc. But I see how rising gas prices and weather trauma are definite signs of the end times, I hadn't thought of it that way before! Legal gayness is by far the worst of the mix though.

kivi says: If I might revise your time frame: "...countless people die everyday and have died for all of humanity's time on the earth....".

[Tishri1]

bumping this thread for the high holy days ....

any birth pains out there now????

[MI6]

I do feel some birth pains from the financial problems in the world.

I wanted to confess that I am afraid.

Is anyone else scared too?


MI6