For clarification of this forum...

[Kris10leigh]

I think I stuck my foot in my mouth in another thread because I have misunderstood the purpose of this forum. I didn't understand that a "Hebrew Christian" is still a Jew. :confused: I'm still trying to wrap my brain around that one, but that's ok! ^_^ I'm done with lables for the day.

I THOUGHT this section was for the Messianic gentiles who want a sort of safe place to discuss "churchier" kinds of things. But now I'm finding that it's actually for Messianic JEWS who worship in a church setting? Or, more accurately maybe it is for anyone within this movement who worships in a church?

Regardless, it's a place where we can free discuss church related issues, right? And freely discuss Christmas and Easter without being ridiculed or made to feel Pagan? Am I on the right track?

[visionary]

Yep, that about sums it up

It is a place to be churchy rather than synagogueee.
It is a place for both jews and gentiles in the faith of Yeshua to visit without Judaism messing with christian understanding.

[Talmidah]

I think so, Kris10leigh. I see it as mainly for Jewish believers in Jesus and Gentile believers in Jesus who are into hebrew roots, learning about the holidays, etc., while still involved with the church and with some celebrating the traditional christian holidays.

The other place is for those Jewish and Gentile believers in Jesus who maybe feel that they are on a different path than mainstream Christianity or want to focus on things like keeping kosher, keeping the sabbath, etc.

Hope that helps and I haven't made more a mess of things! :hug:

[visionary]

I think so, Kris10leigh. I see it as mainly for Jewish believers in Jesus and Gentile believers in Jesus who are into hebrew roots, learning about the holidays, etc., while still involved with the church and with some celebrating the traditional christian holidays.

The other place is for those Jewish and Gentile believers in Jesus who maybe feel that they are outside of Christianity or want to focus on things like keeping kosher, keeping the sabbath, etc.

Hope that helps and I haven't made more a mess of things! :hug:The other place also believe that it is not outside of christianity but the root of christianity and where it should have remained.

[SGM4HIM]

I too was not clear with new designation. I guess the "Hebrew" word caused the most confusion. Anyway I get it now.

[HaReb]

I guess the label actually reads: Christian Hebrew Christian Forum, since the root of Messianic is Messiah/Mashiach which is the Hebrew root of Christian.

Now there's real confusion :D

[Shimshon]

I guess the label actually reads: Christian Hebrew Christian Forum, since the root of Messianic is Messiah/Mashiach which is the Hebrew root of Christian.

Now there's real confusion :D
About as confusing as an: Orthodox Christian Judaism Forum, no? Since the root of Messianic is the Hebrew root of Christian.

[HaReb]

:idea: Can we have Messianic Gentile Christians, or even non-Messianic Christians, I wonder? Christian Gentile Christians and non-Christian Christians - a bit of a problem there, me thinks!

Is there such a thing as Christian Jew (which is what Messianic Jew means)? What does this do to those who say that a Jew who believes in Messiah doesn't become a Christian, even though it is there in the title they adopt!!! :scratch:

We just love tautologous statements, don't we! :o

[Kris10leigh]

:idea: Can we have Messianic Gentile Christians, or even non-Messianic Christians, I wonder? Christian Gentile Christians and non-Christian Christians - a bit of a problem there, me thinks!

Is there such a thing as Christian Jew (which is what Messianic Jew means)? What does this do to those who say that a Jew who believes in Messiah doesn't become a Christian, even though it is there in the title they adopt!!! :scratch:

We just love tautologous statements, don't we! :o
I can do nothing but laugh ^_^ and hold on to my spinning head.

[christianmomof3]

meh. that is why i disagreed with making all of the separate labels and forum areas anyway. it is too confusing. most people do not understand the different designations. and it serves no useful purpose.
it does not help to build us up together in Christ.
it just makes more divisions.
then, rather than trying to be built up together in oneness in Christ, people are trying to figure out which division to be a part of.:sigh:

[HaReb]

Just the point I am making by saying what a mess we get into when we look at what these titles actually say! :o

[Ivy]

Okay, well, as I understand it, this is a church-friendly and Christian-friendly area, whether the poster is Jewish or Gentile.

I think Tal's description was useful, she pretty much nailed it on the head.

The label was a little different than I would have liked to see; I would have liked to see Hebrew Christians & Friends or something like that.

[Steve Petersen]

'Do you have anything without quite so much spam in it?'

'Well, we have spam, eggs, spam, spam and spam.'

[HaReb]

Reminds me of the guy who went into a restaurent during the war and ordered rabbit stew, having been assured that there was real rabbit available and not just substitute meats. The waiter had assured him that there were equal amounts of rabbit, and other meat, in every meal prepared.

When the meal arrived he noticed there was not much rabbit at all compared to the great volume of horsemeat. He calls the waiter across and begins to complain but the waiter would have none it... sir, he said, there is, of course a war on, but I assure you, we have been most meticulous in sharing out what meat we could get, as we explained before you ordered. When the chef began to prepare the meal this morning, he took took one rabbit and one horse.....

[ContraMundum]

Look, guys. Rather than be critical- just think of this sub-forum as a place where Jewish Christians who are involved in the Church can discuss and share their various issues.

Don't forget, in the opinion of some, esp me, we think that the Church is truly the fruit of the Jewish root, and we can easily defend that belief (from our viewpoint) from those who think otherwise. Perhaps when I get motivated I'll start a discussion along that line.

[Tishri1]

Or, more accurately maybe it is for anyone within this movement who worships in a church?

Regardless, it's a place where we can free discuss church related issues, right? And freely discuss Christmas and Easter without being ridiculed or made to feel Pagan? Am I on the right track?yes:)....Kris in RL its not that common to see the separation between Messianic Gentiles and Messianic Jews I think this place is obsessed is all:P

I pray this little subforum can take the labels off and just enjoy each other as Believers in Yeshua period:groupray:

[Tishri1]

I think so, Kris10leigh. I see it as mainly for Jewish believers in Jesus and Gentile believers in Jesus who are into hebrew roots, learning about the holidays, etc., while still involved with the church and with some celebrating the traditional christian holidays.

The other place is for those Jewish and Gentile believers in Jesus who maybe feel that they are on a different path than mainstream Christianity or want to focus on things like keeping kosher, keeping the sabbath, etc.

Hope that helps and I haven't made more a mess of things! :hug:Actually this place is for those who do both and are not uncomfortable with all those many degrees of observance both in the Church and in the Synagogue along the way:groupray:

[Tishri1]

Yep, that about sums it up

It is a place to be churchy rather than synagogueee.
It is a place for both jews and gentiles in the faith of Yeshua to visit without Judaism messing with christian understanding.It could be Churchy, Synagoguey, Christiany or Messy:)

[Tishri1]

I too was not clear with new designation. I guess the "Hebrew" word caused the most confusion. Anyway I get it now.

I guess the label actually reads: Christian Hebrew Christian Forum, since the root of Messianic is Messiah/Mashiach which is the Hebrew root of Christian.

Now there's real confusion :D

About as confusing as an: Orthodox Christian Judaism Forum, no? Since the root of Messianic is the Hebrew root of Christian.

Okay, well, as I understand it, this is a church-friendly and Christian-friendly area, whether the poster is Jewish or Gentile.

I think Tal's description was useful, she pretty much nailed it on the head.

The label was a little different than I would have liked to see; I would have liked to see Hebrew Christians & Friends or something like that.

I kept the name Messianic so no one would try to divide us OUT of the group:groupray: and I added Hebrew Christian because historically thats what Messianics were called when they got saved.... long before there was a Messianic Movement and it had its own congregations separate from the Church, the ones who leaned toward MJ were called Hebrew Christians ...In order to keep us as close to one group as we can I sandwiched Messianic Hebrew Christian together and I hope no one tries to pull us apart:groupray:

This place has been begging for a few subforums for years it needed it as the main forum was not going to let the people who would come in here have a break from being told they are wrong to be attending Churches....And like wise the other new Subforum was getting hastled for being Legalistic:doh: oy the two groups needed some place to relax, and now they have it.....enjoy it peeps and dont sweat the small stuff ok, we have soooo many things to talk about like Yeshua and what hes been doing in this world of ours:groupray:

[HaReb]

I guess my concern is that 80%+ of the names suggested appear not to include, specifically, Gentiles, whilst the inclusion of Jews/Hebrews is very obvious. My suggestions have aimed at removal of the wall of partition that is causing the confusion by having a neutral name: Messianic Believers.

Can anyone tell me what the problem is with that name (unless of course you just want to stick Jew(s) or Hebrew in the title somewhere?).

Perhaps it is not too surprising that we have several debates going along the lines of whether Gentiles become Jews or whether they fit in this category or is it that one, is the very fact that on none of the titles we have does the name Gentile exist! Maybe they feel the need to call themselves Jews because there is no obvious place to find their name and that gives them the confidence to post in one of the many 'Jewish/Hebrew' forums. Unless of course, one equates being Christian with being a Gentile - but that is a great leap that is not entirely justified in my opinion.

[Kris10leigh]

I figured out where my confusion has come from, and for the time being it does not exist. It was those faith icons! Our only choices were "Messianic JEW", "non-trin Messianic JEW" or generic "Christian". I assumed that there was no "Messianic believer" or gentile or any other label at all, it must be ok for me to be called a Messianic Jew and that the term was all encompassing.

HaReb is right that gentiles appear in none of the titles.

Doesn't matter...it's just all very confusing. I'm just glad I figured out where my confusion was coming from.

[HaReb]

Yeah, that has been my point on other threads, and I've given up making my point now, blinkers can be so hard to move, and rules so easy to hide behind!

The forum APPEARS wholly, and completely, Jew/Hebrew oriented (not just Messianic) and Christians can come in if they wish. I KNOW that is NOT how it is meant to look but that is exactly the impression for a Gentile outsider (and trying to understand the rules is actually worse!). Beware, wall building still in operation!

[visionary]

Yeah, that has been my point on other threads, and I've given up making my point now, blinkers can be so hard to move, and rules so easy to hide behind!

The forum APPEARS wholly, and completely, Jew/Hebrew oriented (not just Messianic) and Christians can come in if they wish. I KNOW that is NOT how it is meant to look but that is exactly the impression for a Gentile outsider (and trying to understand the rules is actually worse!). Beware, wall building still in operation!You have come in at a time when the forum is pushing the Messianics of the Judaism worship and understanding out. First the non-trinitarians were tossed out into the non-trinitarian section, then the Orthodox Judaism was declared the spot for all those who lean towards Judaism, not just those who are practicing Messianic orthodox judaism...whether gentile or jew.

Now the reports coming in on Jews posting on the forum are gettin reported left and right. I have moved several threads which were in some form or another discussing judaism and jews out to where they can repond without as much fear of being reported for giving an honest declaration of their faith as they understand it.

But the problem still remained. It is not the people that are the problem, it is unclearness of where the boundaries are. By interpretation of FSR there has been posts that showed that clarification is needed so that all mods can act as one in accordance to the FSR. It is also important that all the posters understand them clearly too, so that they do not inadvertantly get reported.

My solution was to create another section of MJ out in theology where Judaism and Messianics can fellowship on the subjec of Judaism all in the context of our Messiah.

[Talmidah]

Actually this place is for those who do both and are not uncomfortable with all those many degrees of observance both in the Church and in the Synagogue along the way:groupray: That's pretty much what I was trying to say, although apparently I didn't accomplish it. ^_^

[Kris10leigh]

HaReb, I agree. I KNOW I am welcome here because everyone is so kind, but there are still days I think "Gee, am I not supposed to be posting here?" And every now and then I get a little jab redirecting me back to what I am and am not. It is most definitely confusing.

It's compounded by folks who are used to a church background. In the churchier arena, I say "I attend a Methodist church" and it is assumed I am Methodist. in fact, to switch over to the Presbyterian church I need only reaffirm my faith, but as a Presbyterian. No problem, no questions asked. As a Christian the only thing I couldn't really be is Catholic.

Here, so many labels, so much confusion, so many hurt feelings! :doh: It's very foreign to me.

[HaReb]

Visionary, but that is, surely, fragmentation and the loudest voices are winning. How far must we fragment before someone sees the folly of doing it. By extension of logic it will be a never ending exercise because that is how things work. Look at Judaism and Christianity - fragmented, both, but to what purpose, ultimately?

[visionary]

This forum is for all gentile and jews who keep many of the customs and traditions and understanding of christianity since the second century.

[HaReb]

I can't be bothered to argue any more, sorry! People will have it as they want it regardless, so why bother? I don't have to use it, at the end of the day. But my ministry is breaking down the barriers and here we are knocking one down to get enough material to build several more!

[visionary]

Visionary, but that is, surely, fragmentation and the loudest voices are winning. How far must we fragment before someone sees the folly of doing it. By extension of logic it will be a never ending exercise because that is how things work. Look at Judaism and Christianity - fragmented, both, but to what purpose, ultimately?I wouldn't say that... it was the cries of the oppressed.

[Tishri1]

Well if we made this subforum the Messianic Believers forum then the distinction that it is for the Messianic who goes to church as well wouldnt be apparent. Maybe we need to change the name of the MAIN forum to Messianic Believers:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Thats what I call myself how bout you guys?I guess my concern is that 80%+ of the names suggested appear not to include, specifically, Gentiles, whilst the inclusion of Jews/Hebrews is very obvious. My suggestions have aimed at removal of the wall of partition that is causing the confusion by having a neutral name: Messianic Believers.

Can anyone tell me what the problem is with that name (unless of course you just want to stick Jew(s) or Hebrew in the title somewhere?).

Perhaps it is not too surprising that we have several debates going along the lines of whether Gentiles become Jews or whether they fit in this category or is it that one, is the very fact that on none of the titles we have does the name Gentile exist! Maybe they feel the need to call themselves Jews because there is no obvious place to find their name and that gives them the confidence to post in one of the many 'Jewish/Hebrew' forums. Unless of course, one equates being Christian with being a Gentile - but that is a great leap that is not entirely justified in my opinion.

[Tishri1]

I figured out where my confusion has come from, and for the time being it does not exist. It was those faith icons! Our only choices were "Messianic JEW", "non-trin Messianic JEW" or generic "Christian". I assumed that there was no "Messianic believer" or gentile or any other label at all, it must be ok for me to be called a Messianic Jew and that the term was all encompassing.

HaReb is right that gentiles appear in none of the titles.

Doesn't matter...it's just all very confusing. I'm just glad I figured out where my confusion was coming from.Its funny cuz soooo many peeps lamented the changing of the Main forums name a year ago(it use to be called "Messianic Judaism" and we made it a generic "Messianic") and there was all this sadness that the forum wasnt Jewish anymore....Well to be honest it would be near to impossible to take Jewishness out of Messianic and also near to impossible to take Gentiles out of the movement...ITS A GOD THING:groupray:

[Tishri1]

Yeah, that has been my point on other threads, and I've given up making my point now, blinkers can be so hard to move, and rules so easy to hide behind!

The forum APPEARS wholly, and completely, Jew/Hebrew oriented (not just Messianic) and Christians can come in if they wish. I KNOW that is NOT how it is meant to look but that is exactly the impression for a Gentile outsider (and trying to understand the rules is actually worse!). Beware, wall building still in operation!you know what ...let me be frank here the name Messianic brings us all together and Hebrew Christian signals the Church to feel welcome here as well, I dont see any walls unless this thread is suppose to be the mortar...Can we just stop these call out threads once and for all they are NOT edifying in the least

[Tishri1]

My solution was to create another section of MJ out in theology where Judaism and Messianics can fellowship on the subjec of Judaism all in the context of our Messiah. and that was an awesome suggestion Vis:clap::hug::clap::hug::clap:

[SingingElk]

Its funny cuz soooo many peeps lamented the changing of the Main forums name a year ago(it use to be called "Messianic Judaism" and we made it a generic "Messianic") and there was all this sadness that the forum wasnt Jewish anymore....Well to be honest it would be near to impossible to take Jewishness out of Messianic and also near to impossible to take Gentiles out of the movement...ITS A GOD THING:groupray:

I would tend to agree. G-d is in the business of tearing down walls. When the new heavens are Earth are created, and Jerusalem is rebuilt in golden and pearl splendor, all those that accept the Messiah, will dwell there. There won't be any dividing lines between Jew and Gentile.

[Steve Petersen]

I would tend to agree. G-d is in the business of tearing down walls.

I must say, I don't think He's really doing a very good job of it based on what I've seen in CF.

[SingingElk]

I must say, I don't think He's really doing a very good job of it based on what I've seen in CF.

It is people bickering among themselves that make some of the forums here such a mess. If we would only listen to the Spirit of G-d, then there would be more unity.

[soap]

Well....from reading the forum rules, I thought I was welcome
here. I was just checking out this part of the forum, and I thought
the rules stated that just a Christian could come here, but
they weren't allowed to stir up strife, or something like that. I don't
claim to be Jewish/Hebrew because I'm not. I'm just a Christian.

So, did I misread the rules?

[SingingElk]

Well....from reading the forum rules, I thought I was welcome
here. I was just checking out this part of the forum, and I thought
the rules stated that just a Christian could come here, but
they weren't allowed to stir up strife, or something like that. I don't
claim to be Jewish/Hebrew because I'm not. I'm just a Christian.

So, did I misread the rules?

Soap, It is always easy to make mistakes when new to an area. The safest thing to do is always read the Forum Specific Guidelines before you post.;)

[Tishri1]

Well....from reading the forum rules, I thought I was welcome
here. I was just checking out this part of the forum, and I thought
the rules stated that just a Christian could come here, but
they weren't allowed to stir up strife, or something like that. I don't
claim to be Jewish/Hebrew because I'm not. I'm just a Christian.

So, did I misread the rules?nope you didnt miss a thing depending on when you looked at the FSGs though some of the links were broken I just fixed them so now you can read it all better...if your not MJ or dont ascribe to our SOF you are still welcome :groupray:follow the posting guidelines for a guest ok theres a link to fellowship posting:thumbsup: