Ethics in Judaism and Messianic Judaism

[Lulav]

I believe both are based on the two greatest commandments, those called the greatest by R. Yeshua. Or maybe I am wrong?

Do you base your actions on these two commandments?

You shall Love the L-RD your G-d with all your heart and soul and might

And you shall love your neighbor as yourself.

Or don't you hold the V'ahavta in this high regard?

Mods please do not move this, if it must be moved, then to the debate forum please, if not, then just close TY.

[simchat_torah]

Hi Lulav,


Its great that you've come to ask your question. Unfortunately, the Jews you ask about are not allowed to answer you here due to the rules of the forum. I'm sure if you send a PM to any one of us, we'd be happy to explain our point of view to you. :)

[visionary]

Will move this thread so that the Jews can anwer.

[Henaynei]

I hold these 2 mitzvot with the same weighty regard HaShem gave them, and reiterated through Yeshua......

The question is HOW does one Love HaShem, HOW does Love their neighbor and WHO is their neighbor......

Love HaShem - obey Him
Love Neighbor - obey HaShem via Torah
Who is Neighbor - per Yeshua - the near kinsman, even the family outcast.... that is what the Samaritans were.... note Yeshua didn't use a Roman in that parable although there certainly were plenty around and if all mankind were one's neighbor there could have been no more powerful picture of that than a Roman.... nu?

29b "And who is my `neighbor'?"
30 Taking up the question, Yeshua said: "A man was going down from Yerushalayim to Yericho when he was attacked by robbers. They stripped him naked and beat him up, then went off, leaving him half dead. 31 By coincidence, a cohen was going down on that road; but when he saw him, he passed by on the other side. 32 Likewise a Levi who reached the place and saw him also passed by on the other side. 33 "But a man from Shomron who was traveling came upon him; and when he saw him, he was moved with compassion. 34 So he went up to him, put oil and wine on his wounds and bandaged them. Then he set him on his own donkey, brought him to an inn and took care of him. 35 The next day, he took out two days' wages, gave them to the innkeeper and said, `Look after him; and if you spend more than this, I'll pay you back when I return.'
36 Of these three, which one seems to you to have become the `neighbor' of the man who fell among robbers?" 37 He answered, "The one who showed mercy toward him." Yeshua said to him, "You go and do as he did." by no means does this mean we should mis-treat those outside our community - but the designation neighbor belongs to those within the community....

16 "'Do not go around spreading slander among your people, but also don't stand idly by when your neighbor's life is at stake; I am AD-NAI. 17 "'Do not hate your brother in your heart, but rebuke your neighbor frankly, so that you won't carry sin because of him. 18 Don't take vengeance on or bear a grudge against any of your people; rather, love your neighbor as yourself; I am ADONAI. we are given laws on how to treat the stranger and the foreigner.... compassionately, humbly..... but we are not commanded to love them as ourselves - this is reserved for our people.... even those among our people who mistreat us....

[Henaynei]

duplicate

[ChavaK]

I believe both are based on the two greatest commandments, those called the greatest by R. Yeshua. Or maybe I am wrong?

Do you base your actions on these two commandments?

You shall Love the L-RD your G-d with all your heart and soul and might

And you shall love your neighbor as yourself.

Or don't you hold the V'ahavta in this high regard?



Well, this is my opinion, based on what I have been taught.
I am sure others will disagree.

There are no "greatest" and no "littlest" commandments.
All are equally sacred, because they are G-d's word.
They are all equally important, because we do no know
which mitzvot, if any, are more important to the Almighty
than are others. He gave them all to us, and did not
differentiate between them.

Having said that, it is not enough to rely upon these two
mitzvot to determine ones ethics because they are not
defined enough.

You may love G-d with all your heart and all your soul, but
that does not necessarily translate into action as to how
you treat others. You may interpret differently how to
put that love into action, which may not agree with
everyone else's interpretations. There is no standardization.

Loving your neighbor as your self is pretty vague too.
Maybe you hate yourself. Maybe you are a sadist
or a masechist (sp?). Maybe blasting your music
out at all hours and trashing your neighborhood
makes you happy about yourself. Maybe you
enhance your self love through drugs....how one
love's oneself does not make one a good neighbor
nor necessarily translate into acting in ways
others would "love".

What is a neighbor? Someone
within physical distances of you, Jew or not?
Or a Jew who lives thousands of miles away from you?

So no, I do not think we base all our actions solely
on these mitzvot, but on the accumulation of them all,
a combination of Written and Oral Law.

[Henaynei]

that is why Torah is *necessary* - through it HaShem tells us what actions constitute love, obedience, etc.... without Torah all that is left is .....

12 There can be a way which seems right to a person, but at its end are the ways of death. 25 There can be a way which seems right to a person, but at its end are the ways of death.

[ShirChadash]

that is why Torah is *necessary* - through it HaShem tells us what actions constitute love, obedience, etc.... without Torah all that is left is .....
Amen Henny.


I will answer here just as I answered in my post on your duplicate thread now in this forum:

So many times, I have heard that all of the mitzvot fall under one or the other of these two categories -- the one being the vertical relationship (man's relating to HaShem) and the other being the horizontal relationship (man's relating to his neighbor). :)

[GerTzedek]

Lulav:

It is easy to categorize the mitzvot under one or the other: loving HaShem or loving one's neighbor.

My problem is that so many of the Chrstians I've known all my life enjoy having something VAGUE so that they don't have to really DO anything REAL.

A long time ago there used to be a show on KFI radio called, "Ask the Rabbi," where a Chabad rabbi would pose ethical questions, have callers offer possible solutions, and then end with his own solution and reasons behind it. I absolutely loved this show because it gave me a chance to truly think about things, to try to apply the ethics of "loving my neighbor as myself." But there were times when the Rabbi's answer would differ from my own, and after listening to his reasoning, I HAD TO ADMIT HE WAS RIGHT! And of course, he would always end the show with the words, "The Rabbi is always right." LOL GRRRR! And he WAS. I kept waiting for him to say something stupid and he never did.

My point is, even if we DO struggle to apply "love your neighbor as yourself," without the benefit of Torah, along with mellinia of rabbinic tradition, we end up reinventing the wheel, and making the same mistakes over and again.

[Henaynei]

true GT - vague is the path for many --- thus freeing themselves to celebrate and do that which is "right in their own eyes."

Thier ignorance and failure, however, in no way negates the core principals of Torah. Identifying the core in no way negates or obsoletes the whole.... it merely gives an anchor or starting/launching point. You are quite correct that for folks to end their journey on the dock rather than crossing the gangplank and getting on the ship is sad indeed, especially as we watch them celebrate their arrival on the dock as the goal of their journey....

[Lulav]

Well, this is my opinion, based on what I have been taught.
I am sure others will disagree.

There are no "greatest" and no "littlest" commandments.
All are equally sacred, because they are G-d's word.
They are all equally important, because we do no know
which mitzvot, if any, are more important to the Almighty
than are others. He gave them all to us, and did not
differentiate between them.

Having said that, it is not enough to rely upon these two
mitzvot to determine ones ethics because they are not
defined enough.

You may love G-d with all your heart and all your soul, but
that does not necessarily translate into action as to how
you treat others. You may interpret differently how to
put that love into action, which may not agree with
everyone else's interpretations. There is no standardization.

Loving your neighbor as your self is pretty vague too.
Maybe you hate yourself. Maybe you are a sadist
or a masechist (sp?). Maybe blasting your music
out at all hours and trashing your neighborhood
makes you happy about yourself. Maybe you
enhance your self love through drugs....how one
love's oneself does not make one a good neighbor
nor necessarily translate into acting in ways
others would "love".

What is a neighbor? Someone
within physical distances of you, Jew or not?
Or a Jew who lives thousands of miles away from you?

So no, I do not think we base all our actions solely
on these mitzvot, but on the accumulation of them all,
a combination of Written and Oral Law. So then you believe that the Shema is on equal ground with say, not muzzling your ox?

You believe HaShem does not find any difference in order ? Then if not, why did he put him self first on the tables? If he didn't differentiate, why do they list the most important, He himself, first, and of the first five and the last five of the ten about your neighbor?

Do you not think loving G-d is more important than coveting your neighbors ass?

I don't think he expected us to use our guage to love our neighbor, that is why he gave many commandments to show us what this means. 26 thru 39 of the 613 is a good start.

[Lulav]

Since this got moved here, let me ask.

Do you are Jews who don't believe that Yeshua is the Messiah, believe that it is ok to violate Leviticus 19 rules against a fellow Israelite because they do believe he is the Messiah? And how far would you go to allow harm to come to him/her?