uuuuuggghhhh, he's doing it again!!!!!!!

[rainbowbright]

So my husband now thinks he wants to research Islam b/c he said it looks interesting and has some very good aspects to it, I told him straight up that I can't stay married to him if he becomes Muslim. This is the only religion he hasn't converted to yet (well, he never became buddhist b/c he converted to Orthodoxy with me and then later renounced Buddhism all together) and I know him, if he starts to research it he will try become so enamoured in it and bash Christianity (again) and he will try to convince me it's a peaeful religion. He seriously need prayers, he was doing real well with going back to Church, but I am going by myself again.

[MariaRegina]

My prayers.

Please do talk with your priest and ask for urgent prayers. Your priest can pray for him privately.

If he does become a Muslim, then he will consider it his obligation to raise all of your children as Muslims. Joint custody cannot even be considered, yet it will most likely be forced upon you.

O Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy and save.

[Matrona]

So my husband now thinks he wants to research Islam b/c he said it looks interesting and has some very good aspects to it, I told him straight up that I can't stay married to him if he becomes Muslim. This is the only religion he hasn't converted to yet (well, he never became buddhist b/c he converted to Orthodoxy with me and then later renounced Buddhism all together) and I know him, if he starts to research it he will try to convince me that it is a peaceful religion and may try to convert. He seriously need prayers, he was doing real well with going back to Church, but I am going by myself again.

Put him on a Scientology mailing list. :P

[Khaleas]

My prayers!
We have a convert from Islam at our church and I can try to put you (or your husband) in contact with him (it might take a bit of time, I don't see him every weekend) if you'd like.

[Orthosdoxa]

RB, this must be so difficult for you - I am so sorry that he is not faithful to Christ. I am so glad you are standing strong and providing the much needed example for your children.

We have several former Muslims here - if he's willing to talk to them, I'm sure any of them would be willing to talk to him.

[rainbowbright]

Thanks everyone. I'm so worried b/c I've seen people on these forums fall into the hands of Islam just by researching it and what MA said has really hit me and I'm stressing over it right now. When my husband gets home, I will tell him I do not want him researching it, but he is a grown-up and if he's really motivated to raise 5 kids by himself, than by all means, he can commence digging.

[Philothei]

Pleas pm to me his name to put him in my hubs prayer list. :( Please do talk to your priest and ask for spiritual guidance and prayers. Have your priest do a Holy Unction at your home and call him over for dinner to "talk"... I do strongly believe that priest's praying over him or giving Holy Unction (to all family as well of course) will turn things around at least it will ease your mind knowing God is in control... and He is.

Please do not lose hope God is in chanrge and pray and pray for your husband...

I am sorry you go through this trial... and temptation You are in my prayers

[rusmeister]

:crosseo:

[rusmeister]

I'll pray for you, RB!
:crosseo:

Again, I have no idea if it would be worth anything at all, but I can put you in touch with my BIL and his family if you would like. Having intelligent and caring Orthodox people around might be good for something... His wife is alone there at the moment - he's leaving his kids here for the summer - but I'm sure they'd be happy to talk with you, meet with you and pray for you.

[rainbowbright]

Thanks, Rus. That would be great

[Nichole]

Prayers! :crosseo:

[cassc]

Lord Have Mercy

[BigNorsk]

So my husband now thinks he wants to research Islam b/c he said it looks interesting and has some very good aspects to it, I told him straight up that I can't stay married to him if he becomes Muslim. This is the only religion he hasn't converted to yet (well, he never became buddhist b/c he converted to Orthodoxy with me and then later renounced Buddhism all together) and I know him, if he starts to research it he will try become so enamoured in it and bash Christianity (again) and he will try to convince me it's a peaeful religion. He seriously need prayers, he was doing real well with going back to Church, but I am going by myself again.

A lot of what people run into concerning the Quran and Islam is nothing more than fiction. It's so perfect becaue it's literally made up.

I'm not going to say to encourage him, but http://bibleprobe.com/corruptedquran.htm
talks factually about a lot of the myths that are commonly taught concerning the Quran and those myths are often held up to be the proof that the Quran is superior.

If he is going to research it, then I hope he actually researches it instead of just accepting the myths.

I especially enjoy the goat eating part of the Quran.

Marv

[rainbowbright]

well, he was deffinitely telling me facts about Islam last night that I didn't really care to hear. He is assuring me he won't convert b/c it's way too structurd for him and that he's more than likely leaning towards agnosticism or atheism- GREAT, I'm going to be married to someone who's a God-hating heathen!!!!! But I know it will eventually consume him b/c I have seen him go through with this with buddhism. Don't people who change religions all the time have some some kind of mental illness?

[cassc]

:hug: I pray that in the near near future your family will once again be unified in it's Orthodox Faith :crosseo:

[nutroll]

Fundamentalism (as properly defined) is not likely to ever be called a mental illness officially, but it is certainly a psychological phenomenon that mystifies most people. True fundamentalists have a way of looking at the world around them, and at their religious (or sometimes non-religious) beliefs that differs from the norm.

For most people, if they are really devout, changing their faith is a slow, often difficult process. Changes in belief come about through much prayer and thought. Changes in their religion only follow from a desire to find a community that matches their fervent belief. Fundamentalists on the other hand will seek out another faith even if it blatantly contradicts what they supposedly believe with all their heart. They can turn on a dime, so to speak, where conversion takes moments rather than years, no matter how significant a change it might be.

The reason appears to be that the faith of such people is entirely superficial. What really matters to such people lies under the surface. It is driven, among other things, by a need for absolute authority, a refuge from a changing and often hostile world, a system that appears unblemished. The person seeks security, not just from without, but also from their own doubts and fears. It is not uncommon for people like this to seek churches, religions, philosophies, and even social movements with strong leaders that they can submit to completely. When cracks appear in the system, however, they must rationalize them away, or abandon faith in the system altogether.

It seems to me to be a thoroughly sorrowful state to be in, because one never really believes anything, but rather consents to agree with it. I can't imagine that there is a single religion that says you don't need faith for your life to be transformed. Such people don't really have faith, and while they may seek to transform themselves to fit in, they are more like social chameleons than true believers.

I don't know whether fundamentalism is really something that can be escaped easily, but I do believe that it requires looking at our real reasons for being in any particular faith. It can't be about smells and bells, it can't be about feeling secure, it can't be about having a perfect church with no flaws. Ultimately, it must be because we have found a place where we speak to God, and God speaks to us. When that happens, there can be problems, there can be flaws, we can doubt and feel insecure at times, and still be able to speak with God and allay our fears. Stability comes from God, not from a perfectly crafted set of beliefs or a strong leader.

Please know that you and your husband are in my prayers.

[Matrona]

well, he was deffinitely telling me facts about Islam last night that I didn't really care to hear. He is assuring me he won't convert b/c it's way too structurd for him and that he's more than likely leaning towards agnosticism or atheism- GREAT, I'm going to be married to someone who's a God-hating heathen!!!!! But I know it will eventually consume him b/c I have seen him go through with this with buddhism. Don't people who change religions all the time have some some kind of mental illness?

Cultivating his curiosity about religions might help keep him from falling into atheism. Has he ever taken a comparative religion class? If there's a community college nearby, maybe he can sign up for a summer class.

[Chocolatesa]

:crosseo:

[MariaRegina]

You have to be very careful to screen the teacher who teaches comparative religions.

At my local community college, we have some people who are Wiccans and they promote all the new age stuff when they teach comparative religions.

Then there is another course offered on witchcraft. So, if he sees that offered, he may take that course also.

[Matrona]

You have to be very careful to screen the teacher who teaches comparative religions.

At my local community college, we have some people who are Wiccans and they promote all the new age stuff when they teach comparative religions.

Then there is another course offered on witchcraft. So, if he sees that offered, he may take that course also.

Clem might have some more insight, but in my experience most academics in religion don't take neopaganism seriously at all.

[MariaRegina]

I guess California is being true to its name -- the land of fruits, nuts, and flakes.

The curriculum in the public schools supports Muslims and considers Christians to be bigots. Even the college text for my Intercultural Communications 356 class was very biased against Christians and called us bigots, while praising muslims. urgggg.

[rainbowbright]

My husband actully studied eastern religion in college and it was an emphasis for his major. He keeps reassuring me that he is just really enthusiastic about Islam right now b/c he wants to learn about it, that he hasn't left Orthodoxy, etc, etc. So hopefully he'll keep going this way.

[Dorothea]

Oh goodness. I'm sorry you're going through all this, rainbow, and especially when you're in the middle part of your pregnancy. Ugh. I do admire your strength in not being influenced or moved from your beliefs. I don't know about your husband raising the 5 kids himself. If it were me, I would want my kids with me being raised Orthodox, not muslim. I hope I didn't misunderstand your statement on that.

[Dorothea]

My husband actully studied eastern religion in college and it was an emphasis for his major. He keeps reassuring me that he is just really enthusiastic about Islam right now b/c he wants to learn about it, that he hasn't left Orthodoxy, etc, etc. So hopefully he'll keep going this way.

Sorry, just saw this. I hope that's all it is. I'll keep he and you and your family in my nightly prayers.

[rainbowbright]

thanks, Dorothea

[MariaRegina]

Isn't it true that in Islam, few go to heaven, and that the only to guarantee a space in heaven is to be a martyr?

Tell him that you want to go to heaven, and that the Muslim heaven is nearly impossible to achieve because their god is fickle and capricious per the writings in their Quran.

In Orthodox, isn't the belief that the bride and groom either go to heaven together or to hell together? So, tell him to strive for theosis so that you both will go to heaven.

[Matrona]

Isn't it true that in Islam, few go to heaven, and that the only to guarantee a space in heaven is to be a martyr?

No, that's wrong.

In Orthodox, isn't the belief that the bride and groom either go to heaven together or to hell together? So, tell him to strive for theosis so that you both will go to heaven.

That's not true either; rainbowbright can still be saved even if her husband is not. And he can be saved even if she is not.

[MariaRegina]

Then Matrona,

Please tell us what the Muslims believe. I read that few women go to heaven, and the ones that do serve as servants to be raped.

Regarding Orthodox Spouses, that was only a generalization, and not to be taken as a dogma.

[Matrona]

Then Matrona,

Please tell us what the Muslims believe. I read that few women go to heaven, and the ones that do serve as servants to be raped.

No, that blatantly contradicts the Qur'an and 1400 years of Islamic tradition. Using wrong information to try to sway people shows a lack of confidence in one's own beliefs.

Why don't you take some time and read some of the topics from here: http://www.mwlusa.org/topics/list.htm It might help.

[MariaRegina]

I would rather read information provided by the Coptic Priest at http://www.fatherzakaria.net/
Father has been debating and converting thousands of Muslims and he has been so successful
that he has been declared public enemy #1.

Here is a site which I have read extensively. I know several converts from Islam who also support this site.
In fact, every Sunday, I talk with Miriam and Sally who converted from Islam. They like this site very much
and even buy materials to share with their relatives and friends who are thinking of converting too.
http://www.islamreview.com/

On the other hand, the site that you have provided, Matrona, is pure propaganda written to entice young innocent women into the devil's lair itself.

[Matrona]

On the other hand, the site that you have provided, Matrona, is pure propaganda written to entice young innocent women into the devil's lair itself.

No, it isn't. The MWL seems to have their heads on straight. Over a billion people are adherents of Islam; doesn't it seem at least remotely plausible that they aren't all slaves of the devil?

[MariaRegina]

Of course not, but all the Orthodox Christian women (four out of four) with whom I have spoken who were originally Muslim have told me that they really felt like they were worshiping the devil. They know plenty of other ex-muslims who are now Christians and these ex-muslims all say the same thing.

In addition, I know a man who married a Muslim woman. He used to attend our parish. His life has been horrible because his wife made him pay for the education of two of her Muslim nephews here in America. He had to pay for their transportation from a foreign country, and they thanked him by saying that they plan on killing him if they ever have a jihad. They did not want to work for their tuition, they got low grades. They were extremely ungrateful.

Oh, yeah, someone I know will say that my post is all hearsay. So be it. It is the truth.
Go and check out the website of the devout Coptic priest. He tells it like it is also, but I suppose what he has to say is also considered to be worthless unsubstantiated lies. I believe him and I am proud that he stands for the truth and is willing to risk his life so that thousands may be converted and live. Oh, the four women that I mentioned, love this priest, and want me to go see him the next time he speaks. (I hope he speaks English).

[Dorothea]

well, he was deffinitely telling me facts about Islam last night that I didn't really care to hear. He is assuring me he won't convert b/c it's way too structurd for him and that he's more than likely leaning towards agnosticism or atheism- GREAT, I'm going to be married to someone who's a God-hating heathen!!!!! But I know it will eventually consume him b/c I have seen him go through with this with buddhism. Don't people who change religions all the time have some some kind of mental illness?
It's funny you should say that, rainbow. Fr. Dennis said there is when we discussed this months ago with regards to somebody else, depending on if the person is being serious or not.

[MariaRegina]

Another Priest said that indecision is more common today. It can incapacitate an individual and make life miserable.
As a result, several Orthodox Bishops increase the time a person must spend in the catechumenate if they appear
to show instability. My priest said that when a person shows that they are firm in their faith, that the
Holy Spirit is operating and then they are ready for Chrismation. He said that the disciples of the Lord often looked
for these signs and that many people were filled with the Holy Spirit before they had hands laid on them.

I think Metropolitan Hierotheos wrote a book where he addresses this problem of lack of stability too.

[MsDahl]

Rainbowbright, :crosseo: for your ordeal. I don't have much in the way of advice aside from not taking such an anti-Islam stance. Unfortunately, when we make something the "forbidden fruit", we humans tend to want it even more. It begins to manifest itself as we all know in toddlerhood, no is never no to a toddler, the minute a parent tells a toddler they can't touch something, the toddler makes it his sole pursuit to touch that very object! I do not mean to use this toddler analogy to imply that your husband is a child, I used it to say that it is interwoven into the way we humans interact with our world. Facing spritual battles within one's own family (a spiritual civil war) are so so difficult to face. Make sure that you take time to recharge spritually, spend daily time in prayer and try to keep your vigil lamp continously lit during this time of spiritual battle. I agree with having your priest over for dinner to "talk" and perhaps even to bless your home. You have new life growing inside your womb, the Holy Spirit is helping form your child, your God is far stronger and far more powerful than the god he is looking to possibly serve. Don't lose sight of that! He that is in you is stronger than He that is in the world.

[MichaelArchangelos]

Show him the following article: Human Rights in Saudi Arabia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Saudi_Arabia)[/URL]
This is how Islam is practiced in the home of Islam.

The Muslims that he talks to will lie to him to entice him into their religion. They can make it up to seem like a nice, peaceful religion that is the answer to all the world's problems. However, it is not. They will tell you that the violent verses in the Qur'an refer only to wartime, yet according to orthodox Islam, the world is divided into two types of countries: dar al harb (house of war) and dar al Islam (house of Islam). Therefore any country that is not Muslim is at war with Islam.

I live in a Muslim country and while many of the Muslims are nice people, there are also "faith rehabilitation camps" for those who dare to leave Islam. It is the one religion in the world where people are not able to leave it and must be killed if they do, according to the hadith of their prophet Muhammad.

Rainbow, I know the dilemma that your husband is in, as I was in it myself. However, I didn't look at both sides of it - I only looked at the Islamic side and refused to ask for or hear any defence of Christianity against the accusations that Islam made. Ask your husband to discuss the issues that might be leading him to Islam (Trinity, Divinity of Christ etc) with a priest as well as with his Muslim friends and to examine both sides. Fr. Zakaria Boutros' site ([URL="http://www.fatherzakaria.net"]www.fatherzakaria.net (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Saudi_Arabia)) is a very good resource for it.

And remember, if Islam is true (which it isn't), he will get beautiful virgins in paradise (presuming he gets there) to make love to as well as you (although apparently women on earth are more beautiful than the virgins as they have been tested while the virgins have not). Is that the sort of eternity you want to spend?

[rainbowbright]

Women's heads are smaller than men's, and thus their brains are smaller corresponding to their lower IQs.
:doh:wow, according to that wiki article on human rights, this is one reason why women can't testify in court