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Sword-In-Hand
17th July 2004, 02:44 AM
Backdrop: I attend a Souther Baptist Church. We stand on the normal things most baptist churches stand on, i.e. grace salvation, water baptism doesn't save, eternal security, Lord's supper, things like that. However we are different than alot of other baptist churches today which are just as alive as the computer screen you are staring at now. We have a praise and worship team, we have drums in our church (gasp!), we have numerous ministries, we lift our hands during worship and we say Amen alot!

Recently we had a person join, a woman, who came to the church with a wonderful talent for singing and playing lots of instruments. At first glance she appeared to be very spiritual and just seemed to have an awesome heart for God. Also when she mentioned her testimony is was great also. Since no one knows her I can share some. She was at one time in her life a lesbian, but about five years ago, she said she had reformed from that sin and was now a heterosexual. (BTW, I'm not getting into the issue of homosexuality. I know what I believe on that subject of sin. Call it narrow minded, but I call it standing on God's word.) Anyway, she wasn't looked down upon for her past and that was awesome, because alot of people don't want to be associated with people who are or were gay. But in our congregation it was never brought up and in our minds we loved her no matter what she had done.

Enter the devil. This girl was not doctrinely sound. She held tightly to her that women could be called to be ministers or pastors of a church, something like Joyce Meyers. Our church does not hold to this belief and it's in our constitutional bylaws that women cannot hold a position of authority over the men in the church. She tried to be the small leak that filtered through and changed our ways. And some of her doctrine did filter in, but goodness did we pay for it. Everyone knew what she believed, but no one said anything and shame on us for that. Still that wasn't the worst part. The homosexuality she said she had turned from, was in fact a lie. She may have stopped for a while, but nothing what she claimed to be. In the end she ended up having two girls from our church as her partners and one of them was our youth pastors wife! Because of this, he has almost lost his ministry and our church has the largest youth group in the county.

I write this to warn people of how bad too much tolerance can be. We knew how this girl believed and we said nothing. We even let some of her beliefs seep in through the doors and the church suddenly became one of these "if it feels right it must be from God" churches, which is completely a work of Satan. We should have in the beginning told her we didn't hold to the doctrine she did and if she didn't want to hold to what we stand on, that is clearly in the Word of God, then perhaps she might be better suited at another church. But by not doing that, our church almost crumbled, but because most of the congregation decided that we are going to stand on God's word and not worry about if it makes us feel good, God thwarted an attack directly from the devil.

I think change is good, unless it is not from God. Just because other churches want to water down their doctrine just so they won't hurt someones feelings, doesn't make it close to being right. Our pastor said it best when he quoted 1st Corinthians 5:6-8

Your glorying is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whold lump? Therefore purge out the old leaven, that you may have a new lump, since you truly are unleavened. For indeed Christ, our Passover, was sacrificed for us. Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

This verse implies that even something little can come in to a church and mess up the whole thing. In Joshua God punished the whole nation of Israel over one man's sin. So I say all of this not to discuss homosexuality or a woman's role in the church. I say it so people can be cautious of what they are tolerant of. Basically if it's not according to God's word it's wrong and should be dealt with accordingly.

MKalashnikov
17th July 2004, 02:40 PM
Christians are NEVER supposed to tolerate evil. The idea of "Tolerance" is one pushed by those who want to destroy Christianity and promote their wicked agenda.

The Bible is VERY clear on how Christians are supposed to approach evil.

Luk 17:3 Take heed to yourselves. If your brother trespasses against you, rebuke him. And if he repents, forgive him.

1Ti 5:20 Those who sin, rebuke before all, so that the rest also may fear.

2Ti 4:2 preach the Word, be instant in season and out of season, reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long-suffering and doctrine.

*** 2:15 Speak these things, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no one despise you.

Remember:

2Ti 3:1 Know this also, that in the last days grievous times will be at hand. 2Ti 3:2 For men will be self-lovers, money-lovers, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 2Ti 3:3 without natural affection, unyielding, false accusers, without self-control, savage, despisers of good, 2Ti 3:4 traitors, reckless, puffed up, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 2Ti 3:5 having a form of godliness, but denying the power of it; even turn away from these. 2Ti 3:6 For of these are those who creep into houses and lead captive silly women loaded with sins, led away with different kinds of lusts, 2Ti 3:7 ever learning and never able to come to the full knowledge of the truth. 2Ti 3:13 But evil men and seducers will go forward to worse, deceiving and being deceived.

BT
17th July 2004, 04:09 PM
Awesome Post Sword! Great warning!Thanks for sharing!!

eldermike
17th July 2004, 04:17 PM
Good post!

Athanasian Creed
17th July 2004, 05:04 PM
"Tolerance is the highest virtue for those who have no others."
- G.K. Chesterton


Tolerance for the sake of unity many times makes faithfulness to Biblical doctrine an impossibility. Where anyone got the idea Christians are to be "tolerant" i'll never know - compassionate, yes - forgiving as Christ forgave us, yes BUT never compromising Biblical truth for ANYTHING.

Another thing i've noticed - a person such as that women who has many talents comes into the Church and is often pushed into the limelight before actually "proving" themselves or before they are ready spiritually -

1 Timothy 3:6 Not a novice (or new Christian), lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.

1 Timothy 3:10 And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of (a deacon), being found blameless.

The above should be used with anyone who desires to minister in the Church, not just for deacons !;)

I guess better to have learned the hard way then to not have learned at all but better to be prepared before hand to avoid such problems in the first place.


Ray:wave:

seebs
17th July 2004, 06:48 PM
The problem, I think, comes in discerning when we are defending Biblical truth, and when it is only our own traditions.

theseed
17th July 2004, 10:37 PM
Tolerance usually means that you disagree with someone about an issue, but you don't criticize, judge, or harrass them.

eutychus
17th July 2004, 10:47 PM
The above should be used with anyone who desires to minister in the Church, not just for deacons !;)

Amen--what a great point! Strange how we hold fast to all other biblical guidance except for those dealing with rebuking and trying other members of the Church for the sake of "peace" or "acceptance." Thanks for sharing. Excellent OP, Sword.

Sword-In-Hand
18th July 2004, 12:34 AM
Thanks all for the advice and stuff and i really agree with what everyone is saying. I meant to mention to pray for our church if u don't mind. We are under attack and need all the prayers we can get.

BT
18th July 2004, 12:52 AM
I will pray for your church. The pastors, deacons and members. That they will continue to serve Christ in purity and only grow from this situation.

9-iron
18th July 2004, 08:33 AM
She held tightly to her that women could be called to be ministers or pastors of a church, something like Joyce Meyers. Our church does not hold to this belief and it's in our constitutional bylaws that women cannot hold a position of authority over the men in the church. She tried to be the small leak that filtered through and changed our ways. And some of her doctrine did filter in, but goodness did we pay for it. Everyone knew what she believed, but no one said anything and shame on us for that. Still that wasn't the worst part. The homosexuality she said she had turned from, was in fact a lie. She may have stopped for a while, but nothing what she claimed to be. In the end she ended up having two girls from our church as her partners and one of them was our youth pastors wife! Because of this, he has almost lost his ministry and our church has the largest youth group in the county.


Read up on Jezabel. Sounds like what I term 'Jezabel Spirit' attacked your church. You say 'enter the devil'. That is exactly right. I believe this women was sent to your church to tear it apart. She obviously tried to unsurp leadership and destroy your youth ministry. It also appears her plan was to divide the church over the issue of women in pastoral positions.

I assume she is long gone??

Sword-In-Hand
18th July 2004, 08:36 AM
Yes she was told by the pastor and the deacons to leave and to umm, never step foot back inside the place. And I agree with what you said. She was sent to destroy us.

9-iron
18th July 2004, 10:21 AM
Yes she was told by the pastor and the deacons to leave and to umm, never step foot back inside the place.



Good, it takes strong leadership to overthrow such a spirit. Remember Ahab was powerless against Jezebel's influence. However, there was a strong leader that came in and threw off the side tower and she made a bloody mess on the ground. Sounds harsh, but that is exactly what you do with people like this.