Do you believe in spanking?

[Droobie]

What do you think of spanking? And no, I don't mean the 'in the bedroom' kind. Have you or were you spanked as a child? Do you or do you intend to spank your children? Do some kids need a smack? Do some adults need a smack? Some countries still have corporal punishment for adults. What are your thoughts?

[Mylinkay Asdara]

I think parents using the occasional spanking at the appropriate level and for major infractions is a learning/displine thing. I don't think it should be taken to any extreme, I don't think govenment or schools should do it and I don't think that it should happen beyond a certian age or before a certian age. (about ages 4-8 seem like appropriate times based on my experiance with kids in general- no I don't have any of my own)

Since this poll if official I thought I'd be a detailed as possible with my answer.

[Sonshine]

I have two children (now teenagers) and I believe in spanking as discipline as long as its effective. My oldest didn't need spankings - taking things away form her worked better. My youngest needed a firmer means of guidance. It was never abusive and was only used when we needed to make a strong statement.

I was never spanked growing up and looking back I should have been a few times - it would have stopped some of my mouthiness!

[Kira Faye]

I was smacked as a child and bloody well deserved it! I believe one smack on the rump is all thats needed. A smack shouldn't be a hurtful thing but enough to show the child u wern't kidding. Like my mum said the memory of the smack and its association should live past any pain inflicted and vice cersa. I remember I was smacked but I don;t remember being smacked and it only happened like 3 times!

[minkoilboy]

Prov. 10:13b "...a rod is for the back of him that is void of understanding."
I was spanked as a child and am grateful for it. I probably would have turned out to be out of control (like a lot of kids these days) if it wasn't for my parents discipline. As long as it isn't done out of anger, spanking is mandatory when deserved in my opinion.

[Raterus]

Proverbs 13:24 (http://www.biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?passage=PROV+13:24&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on&showxref=on)
He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is careful to discipline him.

'nuff said

[Konnie]

Discipline

[Aphreal]

I feel too many people are afraid to discipline their child in a physical manner. Ive seen so many kids get away with everything because their parents feel physical discipline of any kind was abuse. There are times that warrant such a discipline but we as parents need to be careful to not lash out due to anger thus the spanking is to ease our wrath.

My children need very few spankings and when the recieve them, they know they are coming and why. Its usually for Multiple repeats of willful disobedience. *willful* being the operative word here.

Tiff

[PODFan87]

I believe that spanking is away of discipline and that only.

[sunshine]

I voted "not sure", because I believe it depends how the spanking is administered, and the situation surrounding the "incident". yes, I believe that some children will really benefit by being disciplined in this way, however I also believe that there's a fine line between a spanking and abuse. obviously spanking "in anger" is a big no-no, as well as spanking as the only method of discipline.

[Samueel]

"spare the rod, spoil the son" (don't know the exact verse). I know from experiance that this verse is 100% right (the whole Bible is!), and as long as the paerent(s) is disciplining, not in anger, but instead as a reminder to the child not to disobey (or whatever), then its ok and biblical. However, when the parent gets out of control and allows emotions of anger to sweep over him, and that rage seeps out into the spanking, then thats when I think it becomes (close to, if not) abusive.


samuel

[joyinchrist]

I agree that a spank on the bum is good enough... i think these days when we think of spanking, especially in the media, people tend to think of beating the kid senseless... a smack on the rear is totally different

[dsdumpling]

Proverbs 13:24 "He who spares his rod hates his son, But he who loves him disciplines him promptly."


I think this is a wise statement from wise Solomon!

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings All,

Just to add a few more good verses:

Proverbs 22:15 Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him.

Proverbs 23:13 Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die.
Proverbs 23:14 Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.

Proverbs 29:15 The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left to himself bringeth his mother to shame.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[geeserver]

It needs to be done.

[stubbornkelly]

I was spanked a few times. I will not spank any children in my care. Ever.

[Waterhouse]

Some children are just asking for it!

[Dad Ernie]

I was spanked a few times. I will not spank any children in my care. Ever.
You just made a "fiat" statement, meaning that you decree this to be so forever. Some kids hardly ever need physical discipline, but other kids, unruly kids, disobedient kids, God makes it plain that as a parent YOU have the obligation to raise him/her in the way they should go and a little heat to the bottom sometimes is a GOOD thing. I think I will stick with what God says and not live by your example.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[stubbornkelly]

I believe there are other means of discipline, and that hitting is unneccesary, regardless of how unruly the child. Check up on me in thirty years and see if I've stuck to it.

I certainly believe it is my responsibility to raise my children in the way they should go - I just don't believe striking them is necessary for doing so. Does it work? For some kids, some of the time, sure. But is it necessary? I don't believe so, no.

[Waterhouse]

Maybe not necessary for all children, but some do. Perhaps if it is explained to them what they were doing wrong. I recall as a child I did some foolish things that I thought was fun at the time, but looking back, I agree that i did deserve a whack.

[In Eivad]

It all depends on the child and/or the parents.
Some children need to be spanked because it may be the only way they can learn. But I think spanking children over the age of 5 is not really recommended, as some stubborn children would remember it for the rest of their lives.

[Dad Ernie]

I certainly believe it is my responsibility to raise my children in the way they should go - I just don't believe striking them is necessary for doing so. Does it work? For some kids, some of the time, sure. But is it necessary? I don't believe so, no.
Greetings Stubborn...

So if God calls something light, are you going to call it darkness? I pray you never have to strike your child, but AFTER they have turned out to the way they are going to be, I hope that you did the right thing. But as for me, I will LISTEN to the Lord.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[d0c markus]

What do you think of spanking? And no, I don't mean the 'in the bedroom' kind. Have you or were you spanked as a child? Do you or do you intend to spank your children? Do some kids need a smack? Do some adults need a smack? Some countries still have corporal punishment for adults. What are your thoughts?
W.W.J.D?


Would Jesus smack his kid to teach him a lesson, or would he guide him?

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings All,

Today in the Ann Landers column, a grandmother wrote in complaining that her son, a missionary, would spank his two girls when they got into trouble. She was very upset, even livid that he would do such a thing. It sounded to me like he was abusing his role as a disciplinarian. However, the Ann Landers column is notoriously secular and liberal. Are we supposed to appeal to the secular world when our ideas of discipline do not line up with the scriptures? I don't think so. We expect mercy from our Father in heaven and by all means we should be offering that to our children as well. But as I have said, for an unruly or disobedient child, the rod is often a way to impart wisdom.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[~Wisdom Seeker~]

Do you think that corporal punishment is a form of discipline or abuse?

•Discipline
•Abuse
•Not sure

Couldn't vote. It depends on a several things to determine the answer. It's not black and white. It may apear to be black and white to anyone who hasn't the responsibilitiy of parenting. But once you actually have the knowledge that having children gives you...it's not so easy to determine what you will or won't do or why. Believe me...before I had children...I swore I would never spank or physical discipline my children.

I am a parent. I was also a child. I was "spanked" as a child. And I believe that the way I was spanked was probably 80% abuse and 20% discipline. I have some emotional scarring because of my upbringing. I do not want to leave any such scars on my children.

I hardly ever spank. But I think being a permissive parent would be foolish and negligent on my part. And not many of the things that discipline books talk about work. So yes, when I've exhausted every other option...I will spank reluctantly. With calmness and a discussion with my child about the particulars that brought the situation to that point. I follow it up with hugs and usually tears....mine.

I do not believe that the Bible speaking of the rod of discipline means a physical rod. I believe it's a parable like most lessons in the book. I find it peculiar how many people thump their Bible about this issue...but don't follow many other of the lessons therein literally.

[Dad Ernie]

I do not believe that the Bible speaking of the rod of discipline means a physical rod. I believe it's a parable like most lessons in the book. I find it peculiar how many people thump their Bible about this issue...but don't follow many other of the lessons therein literally.
Greetings Wisdom Seeker,

As with MOST of the Bible, if you don't take it "literally", then everyone can "spiritualize" away the meaning of the text. They can make it mean anything they want. A good hermeneutic makes literalness a top priority.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[HesMyAll]

I believe in spanking. The Bible teaches it and I believe that God knows what He's talking about.
I was spanked as a child and it didn't hurt me at all.
I have seen many children who really needed to be disciplined and weren't...the end result is usually very sad.

[fisherman2]

I believe it needs to done, look at kids today,alot more problems than in years past, look what kids have done in the last few years, school shootings, i grew up in the 50's,60's70's, my kids got spanked when they needed it, spanked, not beat!!!!!! Kids some not all, don't have respect for authority, they will challenge you. In my growing up days, what the parent said was the way it was, no questions asked, now if you make a child mad, or touch them,you could be put into jail, don't understand it, what kind of parents will those children turn out to be????

[stubbornkelly]

I have seen many children who really needed to be disciplined and weren't

And I think one of the biggest wedges between the spankers and non-spankers is understanding that not spanking does not always equal not disciplining, and that spanking does not always equal abuse (although I'll readily admit I believe the first much more readily than the second).

Who knows - years from now I may wish I'd made a different choice. But I have committed myself to living a non-violent life, and hitting children doesn't fit in with that.

[Big Mouth Nana]

I was a child in the 50's and 60's, and my parents spanked me alot. I was a brat, and needed it, ^_^ . I have seen kids in stores that were unruely with their parents, talking back to them, and just not minding at all. I didn't blame the kids for the way they were, and I wanted to walk up and deck the parents right in the kisser for the way their kids were.
Kids now a days are not stupid. They know about child abuse laws. I have a niece who threatened to spank her daughter, and the daughter threatened to call Child Protective Services for abuse, if her mom spanked her. My niece told her to go ahead and call, because after CPS left, she was going to give her double, LOL. She never called.
Parents are afraid to spank their kids. You don't dare whollop them in public anymore like when I was a child. Now, like my daughter with her kids, she takes them out to the car and whollops them. If I thought that my mom was going to spank me in a store, I was terrified into being a good girl because I didn't want to be embarrassed.
It is good to have child abuse laws, since there is so much of it going on these days. The bad thing is, it is a fine line, and parents have to walk it, or get their kids taken away from them.

[~Wisdom Seeker~]

Greetings Wisdom Seeker,

As with MOST of the Bible, if you don't take it "literally", then everyone can "spiritualize" away the meaning of the text. They can make it mean anything they want. A good hermeneutic makes literalness a top priority.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie Ernie...No one can interpret the entire Bible literally. Nor can they follow the entire Bible literally in every day life. Would you like me to start siting examples? I assure you I can be quite prolific.

I believe your statement to be more of a personal mission statement. And even though you would probably admit that such a blanket statement is not reasonable let alone possible...you appear to pridefully stand by this conviction on mere principle. But, in doing so, You've relegated the Bible to something finite, human and subsequentially flawed. I'm sure that wasn't your intention.

I think God's Word is bigger than the level of our human intellect is competant enough to comprehend at this juncture. Do you somehow believe that you are more in tune with the mind of God than every other human being? Much of the Bible is a conundrum. I do not presume to have it all figured out. Nor do I believe that any of us should limit it in that way.

By the way..."hermeneutic" isn't in the dictionary. Would you mind giving a definition? Thank you.

[MetalBlade]

Purely Discpline! I was spanked about 3 times as a child and I've turned out ethical and moral.

[Judilyn]

I voted "not sure", because I believe it depends how the spanking is administered, and the situation surrounding the "incident". yes, I believe that some children will really benefit by being disciplined in this way, however I also believe that there's a fine line between a spanking and abuse. obviously spanking "in anger" is a big no-no, as well as spanking as the only method of discipline.

WELL SAID!

I too was not sure how to vote for this very reason, I voted the same way.

[Waterhouse]

Spanking is very good for discipline, but of course if taken too far would be abuse. It is also a cultural thing. I have not come across any asian family that I know of (I am from Singapore) where the children were not spanked.

[TruthTraveler]

I voted for Discipline.

I was spanked, slapped, whipped, you name it.
Looking back it's kinda funny when you think about it.

Proverbs 23:13-14 KJV
13 Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die.
14 Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.

Proverbs 13:24 NKJV
24He who spares his rod hates his son,
But he who loves him disciplines him promptly.

[Dad Ernie]

Ernie...No one can interpret the entire Bible literally. Nor can they follow the entire Bible literally in every day life. Would you like me to start siting examples? I assure you I can be quite prolific.

I believe your statement to be more of a personal mission statement. And even though you would probably admit that such a blanket statement is not reasonable let alone possible...you appear to pridefully stand by this conviction on mere principle. But, in doing so, You've relegated the Bible to something finite, human and subsequentially flawed. I'm sure that wasn't your intention.

I think God's Word is bigger than the level of our human intellect is competant enough to comprehend at this juncture. Do you somehow believe that you are more in tune with the mind of God than every other human being? Much of the Bible is a conundrum. I do not presume to have it all figured out. Nor do I believe that any of us should limit it in that way.

By the way..."hermeneutic" isn't in the dictionary. Would you mind giving a definition? Thank you.
From the Random House College Dictionary:
hermeneutics - The science of interpretation, especially of the Scriptures. (hermeneutic < Greek - skilled interpreting. etc.

I am sure you can find out more about this word if you type it in Google.

For you, certainly most of the scriptures are beyond your comprehension, as well you admit. But as Jesus took His disciples with Him and taught them for over 3 years, He also personally taught Paul as he went about ministering the Gospel to the Gentiles. From there every student of Christ (disciple), Christ has personally been taken under His wing through the person of the Holy Spirit. He tells us that we are no longer of the night, but we have been brought into the light and nothing hidden will remain that is not brought into the light. He is the Way, the Truth and the Life. If you are truly a "Wisdom Seeker", your source MUST be Jesus Christ, otherwise all your efforts are futile.

It is true that there are SOME mysteries left in the scriptures, but they are generally well defined and clarified as such. But the Holy Scriptures were given NOT for personal interpretation, but as a DIRECT revelation from God for our benefit and understanding. They are not some esotera that only He understands, otherwise He would have chosen to keep them to Himself. But He gave them to us for our education, training and preparation for the life He has prepared us for in Christ.

I am no wiser, nor lay claim to be, than any other student of Christ who sincerely and diligently seeks after Him. You too can be one too if only you quit doubting and believe.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[MsDe]

I went with discipline. IMO there's nothing like a good butt-whoopin' to get 'em to walk the straight & narrow. I'll even admit to a once a week spanking as a behavioral reminder. Sometimes a firm hand is the only thing that gets through to 'em. I know my hubby is definitely the better for it.

Oh wait... you mean for kids? ^_^ (Sorry, couldn't resist!)

Some kids never (seem to) need discipline or punishment, others seem to push and push. Depends on the child IMO. Since I received a number of very well-deserved spankings as a kid, I went with discipline.

[lunachick]

I'm with stubbornkelly.

My own daughter is 10 years old, and she is disciplined - I'll send her to her room, etc.

I do not spank her - even though I've wanted to sometimes! - and she is a loving, open, honest, polite child that I can take anywhere and people comment on what a lovely child she is. She talks to me about things that are of concern to her because she knows I won't just "lose it".

I grew up with a very disciplinarian mother and I learned to lie and conceal things from her in fear, and never trusted her. I still don't trust her, and still fear her to some degree. I will never talk to her about anything that matters.

I know my daughter trusts me because of her open affection and appreciation of me, and her honesty - even when I'm mad at her about something.

She is a thoughtful, rather than a fearful or vengeful, child. This is reflected in comments made by her friends parents, her school teachers, and random strangers when they overhear us speaking to each other, or commenting on her good manners and confidence when I get her to (for example) order a sub at subway. :)

I wonder if she would be this way had I spanked her at every infraction.

[lucypevensie]

W.W.J.D?


Would Jesus smack his kid to teach him a lesson, or would he guide him?

I think it is unwise to teach a child that Jesus/God is *only* loving. Yes, He is loving. However, He has given many examples in His Word in which He used physical punishment. He is also to be respected and yes, feared.

Not implying that kids have to be terrified of their parents. But kids do need to have deep respect for their parents. It is one really good way for them to learn how to respect God.

[HesMyAll]

I'm with stubbornkelly.

My own daughter is 10 years old, and she is disciplined - I'll send her to her room, etc.

I do not spank her - even though I've wanted to sometimes! - and she is a loving, open, honest, polite child that I can take anywhere and people comment on what a lovely child she is. She talks to me about things that are of concern to her because she knows I won't just "lose it".

I grew up with a very disciplinarian mother and I learned to lie and conceal things from her in fear, and never trusted her. I still don't trust her, and still fear her to some degree. I will never talk to her about anything that matters.

I know my daughter trusts me because of her open affection and appreciation of me, and her honesty - even when I'm mad at her about something.

She is a thoughtful, rather than a fearful or vengeful, child. This is reflected in comments made by her friends parents, her school teachers, and random strangers when they overhear us speaking to each other, or commenting on her good manners and confidence when I get her to (for example) order a sub at subway. :)

I wonder if she would be this way had I spanked her at every infraction.
Not every child who is spanked grows up to be untrusting, fearful, or vengeful. I was spanked and I can honestly say that my mother was my best friend. I did not fear her because I knew she loved me. I spanked all of my children and they are all well adjusted, responsible people. Spanking only causes problems if it is done in anger and not in love.

[94SupraTT]

I believe in spanking. I do not think all children need to be spanked. I was spanked as a child however my parents will also tell you that they may have spanked me 3-4 times my entire childhood. Some children need to be spanked. I think I'll go with God's advice on this over man's. Spanking IS NOT however the only means of discipline and I do not think it should be the exclusive means of correction. When I child does something they major that they know is wrong spanking is the right thing to do.

[94SupraTT]

As far as the studies that alledge that spanking makes a child violent and causes them to fail in school I think that is totally hogwash! My brothers and sister and I were all spanked, all of us did well in school and NONE of us are violent people. This anti-spanking movement is downright sad. They will try to "prove" that spanking is wrong through studies however I can have a study done to slant things in my favor. Regardless I think parents need to be accountable when their children commit crimes against society perhaps parents would be more inclined to discipline their children.

[~Wisdom Seeker~]

Spanking only causes problems if it is done in anger and not in love.

That is a very astute statement. Thank you...I share this opinion as well.

[~Wisdom Seeker~]

Dad Ernie...thank you for reminding me about my search engine. I did use it actually...the search was however fruitless. I understood that in it's context it was meant to be insulting and judgemental. But I still wanted to know what the word actually meant if it in fact did exist. :D

It's not my place to judge your beliefs and not your place to judge mine. I don't believe that I'm accountable to any other human being, but to myself and to God. So, I'll let your assumptions about my faith go unanswered as they don't appear to have been benevolent in nature.

[Kirisutokyoo-shinja]

Hello. I am seventeen and still not "too old for one". It has been a long time though. I believe it to be a form of discipline. Concerning the parents acting in anger and not out of love, perhaps some of you should have been there. They can spank me without any anger at all, if its time for one they'll do it. Sure sometimes they may be mad, but the statement posted previously by other persons is generalized and does not fit the correct model for corporal punishment. I plan to discipline my children, if I have any, in a variety of ways. Spanking included. I am not violent. I am also 18th out of 472 in my class if anyone cares to know.

[JC_FREAK]

It depends how in need of punishment the person is. Some people can go overboard with punishment!!! Wrongdoers deserve punishment but not abuse!! Some people do need to calm down when punishing their children esp, they don't know their own strength. That is how kids get hurt.....people lose their temper.

[Waterhouse]

I wonder if she would be this way had I spanked her at every infraction.
Probably your daughter responds well to your style of discipline, and that is enough. Not every child is like your daughter though. Some children require 'stronger' discipline. It all depends on the situation doesn't it?

[TheThinman]

How many of you have been in a public place and thought " That kid needs a good spanking" while the parent is usually saying something futile like " Now Jr, please dont do that", Ugh! Dont get me wrong, its not my wish to unleash a bloody beating on the child, ( although a razor strap fimly placed upon the childs parent's rump roast at the speed of light has been an entertaining thought ) its not the kids fault. Bottom line is ( pun honestly not intended ) that children need a spanking when its apropriate. I believe for some kids it does not have to go that far. My daughter is NOT one of them. I definately was not one of them. My father may have went too far a few times or so, but my brothers and I made it to adulthood without broken bones or scars, and being as objectionable as I can, I believe there has been no emotional scars to any of us. I cant count the times I avoided trouble as a child for fear of the woopin' I would recieve, heck I was just affraid of the look my dad would give us. It was enough to make an adult weak in the knees. I still got into trouble, as well as my bro's, but the trouble I did not get into, was worth a few tears.

I also think that if we, in Wesern civilization, did what some Asian countries do, by public flogging for certain crimes, the rate of things like auto theft and shoplifting would drop drammatically.

[dialogue]

Greetings All,
But as I have said, for an unruly or disobedient child, the rod is often a way to impart wisdom.

Dad Ernie

I wouldn't call that wisdom, the child is merely trained to perform (or to refrain from) certain actions out of fear, not understanding.

A few members posted their anecdote experiences to argue against the statistic. FYI I do believe a lot of statistics are bogus, but I also think anecdotes like that cannot be use to disprove the stat. The statistic did not say all spanked children grow up to be unintelligent, most statistic are bell curve in shape and there will be extreme cases in both ends.

It makes sense to me that unspanked children are, on average, more intelligent. Their parents take the pain and efforts to teach and guide them to make right decisions based on reason, instead of conditioning them like animals. Every time they decide to do or not do something, it's an exercise of free will, and not a conditioned response.

Unspanked children also have less contradictions to deal with. I pity those children who are spanked and at the same time taught they must not use violent to solve problems, AND that unconditional acceptance of order and judgment (aka obedience) is a virtue. Basically they are trained to ask no question and just do whatever is decided for them.

I believe in personal responsibility and a certain degree of freedom, I also think the two go hand in hand. That is also what I want to pass onto my children, so I prefer to teach them to use choice and rights wisely, instead of condition them to docilely conform to a set of behaviours dictated by society or the Bible.

regards,
-Cordelia

[Blessed75]

I think the phrase corporal punishment is a bit harsh - When I think of corporal punishment, I do think of abuse. However, I do believe in a spanking but I also do not believe it's the only way to discipline a child either. I think that it depends on the situation, the age of the child etc. Spanking out of frustration and anger is a big No-No in my household. Just my opinion.......

[Snowy]

I believe its a form of disipline...as long as you don't take it to far then it becomes abuse....if you leave a mark...bruise...or the child is bleeding then you took it too far! :mad:

[Dawn Marie]

"Spanking" when a kid deserves it, is fine. Anything more than that, is abuse.

[Georgius]

Physical Force should be a last resort when it comes to solving ANY problem. However, one of the reasons I believe God imparted physical prowess to men as the leaders of the household was to be able to control all of the members physically IF NEED BE. Obviously, if you are required to physically restrain a member of your home for any reason as a leader you need to take some time and figure out why it was necessary, where did you go wrong and fall PRIOR to the occurance?

I won't use the word "No" with my children because I do not want them to learn to turn around and do what I see so many OTHER children do which is learn the word and then use it on Mom and Dad. How many of us have seen THAT happen? I will instead explain to the child what they SHOULD be doing rather than stating things in the negative. Now, this does not mean that I won't go to great lengths to show the child why they are wrong and what harm they are causing by doing wrong.

I do not think spanking is wrong ultimately I guess, it just seems like a last resort. As far as not teaching children that "violence is wrong" by spanking, well I just plain disagree with that. First of all, violence IS sometimes necessary and the use of Force is NOT proscribed by Christianity imho. So, teaching the child that "Hey, look, the reason our government is in control of the state is because they have the Police who have guns, night sticks and the Army" is VERY REALISTIC. Force is the only real limiting power in this world I'm afraid. Even though Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. got his message across in a non-violent way (kudos to anyone who uses their creativity to do this btw) it ultimately took men with guns to desegregate the schools (i.e. The National Guard).

My two cents. Ultimately love people first, but do not shackle yourself with the foolishness of pasificism. God bless you all.

[Blessed-one]

discipline. Remember we're talking about a child here, not a teenager or an adult who would understand reasonable reasoning.

[Aeternus via Deo]

As a child, I probably would have thought "spoil the rod and spare the child". Now that I am older I can see that families who don't discipline their children well are very disorderly. As a parent, I will probably spank my children as a punishment.

[dialogue]

As a child, I probably would have thought "spoil the rod and spare the child". Now that I am older I can see that families who don't discipline their children well are very disorderly. As a parent, I will probably spank my children as a punishment.

I wonder how we grew up to forget what it's like to be a child.

BTW, the bible says "the rod", not a smack with the hand. So if a parent don't use a rod, is that still disobedient?

Lastly, there are many forms of discipline. Just becaues our country do not whip people for criminal behavior doesn't mean there is no law and order. Lack of spanking is not the same as lack of discipline.

-Cordelia

[Bayhawks83]

yes, i was a lot. but i think you should stop at about the age of ten, i was spanked once when i was over 10 and i didnt like it.

[fdldd]

I think spank when dangerous situations, playing with electrical cords, running into street kinda thing, but it certainly does depend on the child. I was spanked when I was a child, yet when it was done it was explained ahead of time why the spanking was needed. I didn't need to get many because of this and the fact that I believed that the reason that my parents were spanking was because they cared that I was doing wrong and could get hurt because of it.

[HesMyAll]

I wonder how we grew up to forget what it's like to be a child.

BTW, the bible says "the rod", not a smack with the hand. So if a parent don't use a rod, is that still disobedient?

Lastly, there are many forms of discipline. Just becaues our country do not whip people for criminal behavior doesn't mean there is no law and order. Lack of spanking is not the same as lack of discipline.

-Cordelia
While the word rod literally means a stick, I take the word rod to mean physical punishment. I have seen many families where there was no physical discipline; they tried to talk to the child and reason with them. Unfortunately, in the long run it was the child who paid the price. They never learned self-control by being talked to.

[dialogue]

While the word rod literally means a stick, I take the word rod to mean physical punishment.

Thanx for the response. My next question is: who gets to decide which words in the Bible are meant to be taken literally, and which ones are open to interpretation? Why is it more "right" to interprete "the rod" as physical punishment, as opposed to discipline of any kind? (I am asking because members who insist on discipline method that is not physical are vehemently slammed down in the beginning of this thread, as if it is more righteous to spank, but none of the "righteous" fellows mentioned beating with a rod or stick. Why is their interpretation holier than others?)

[HesMyAll]

Thanx for the response. My next question is: who gets to decide which words in the Bible are meant to be taken literally, and which ones are open to interpretation? Why is it more "right" to interprete "the rod" as physical punishment, as opposed to discipline of any kind? (I am asking because members who insist on discipline method that is not physical are vehemently slammed down in the beginning of this thread, as if it is more righteous to spank, but none of the "righteous" fellows mentioned beating with a rod or stick. Why is their interpretation holier than others?)
I do not think that anybody meant to slam anyone who does not use physical discipline. I think the form of discipline used depends in large part on the temperament of the child. Many children are not as rambunctious as others and never need physical discipline; maybe all it takes is the tone of voice to correct the child. But there are many children who needs a firmer hand and without it they will head for shipwreck. I think that the parents have to decide which method of discipline will work for each individual child.
I do not believe that one form of discipline is "holier" than another. But do I think that children are individuals and need discipline taylored to their personalities? Yes.
Hope this clairies things.:)

[Dedicated]

Spanking a chils is entirly appropriate i think because some kids need discipline and without it i think many of us would not be who we are. Discipline is needed in every life, think about when you guys got in trouble, soap in the mouth, spanking ,grounding or whatever, they were all in a sense "corpral punsihment" or forms of it, so yes in certain circumstances yes it is allright.

[HesMyAll]

Spanking a chils is entirly appropriate i think because some kids need discipline and without it i think many of us would not be who we are. Discipline is needed in every life, think about when you guys got in trouble, soap in the mouth, spanking ,grounding or whatever, they were all in a sense "corpral punsihment" or forms of it, so yes in certain circumstances yes it is allright.
It was appropriate for me! My mother knew how to apply the "board of education" to the "seat of learning" and I know that it kept me out of a lot of trouble that I would have gotten into had it not been for knowing that punishment would be swift and sure.;)

[dialogue]

For the record, I actually do not oppose to corporal punishment personally. I am just concerned that there seem to be this air of superiority amongst those who *interprete* the "rod" as physical punishment, instead of "discipline" in general. If you don't have the time and patient and resource to discipline them through guidance, I agree it's better to discipline them the "easy way" (condition them like irrational animals with a stick) than to let them have their unruly ways. My major concern is raising a child who is taught "it is okay for people who love you to beat you" grows up to have no sense of boundary and bodily integrity. Double standard also comes to mind, children inevitably learns that it is unimportant to practice what you preach.

But my experience is that parents who take the effort to guide and explain things to children instead of whacking them silly, often result in children much more responsible AND resourceful: they learn to use reasons and patience from their parents early on. But this is entirely different from letting your child be unruly and ungoverned.

-cordelia

[HesMyAll]

For the record, I actually do not oppose to corporal punishment personally. I am just concerned that there seem to be this air of superiority amongst those who *interprete* the "rod" as physical punishment, instead of "discipline" in general. If you don't have the time and patient and resource to discipline them through guidance, I agree it's better to discipline them the "easy way" (condition them like irrational animals with a stick) than to let them have their unruly ways. My major concern is raising a child who is taught "it is okay for people who love you to beat you" grows up to have no sense of boundary and bodily integrity. Double standard also comes to mind, children inevitably learns that it is unimportant to practice what you preach.

But my experience is that parents who take the effort to guide and explain things to children instead of whacking them silly, often result in children much more responsible AND resourceful: they learn to use reasons and patience from their parents early on. But this is entirely different from letting your child be unruly and ungoverned.

-cordelia
Why do you assume that children will grow up to believe it is ok for people who love you to beat you? I was spanked as a child and I am a well adjusted adult; with respect for my body and respect for others.
There is also a difference between disciplining a child and "whacking them silly". Discipline gives guidance while "whacking them silly" is abusive.
We'll just have to agree to disagree because I have seen that people who were disciplined as children grow up to be more responsible and resourceful than those who were not.

[Hopeful]

i was beaten when i was a kid, slapped, beaten with belt, blows, horsewhip. I accepted it because thats the way my culture disciplines kids. I came to US and its a whole diffrent story but then kids in America are rude, spoilt and many other things, not in a bad way but compared to kids in my country. Was i abused? i think that would be the concensus, but to me, it was simply home-training and Discipline, sometimes abuse of power, but still, it is something i accepted.

I didnt vote.

[dialogue]

Why do you assume that children will grow up to believe it is ok for people who love you to beat you? I was spanked as a child and I am a well adjusted adult; with respect for my body and respect for others.
There is also a difference between disciplining a child and "whacking them silly". Discipline gives guidance while "whacking them silly" is abusive.
We'll just have to agree to disagree because I have seen that people who were disciplined as children grow up to be more responsible and resourceful than those who were not.
Hi Mary,

Thank you for the response, it's fine with me if you disagree to agree ;) But I think there is some misunderstanding here.

A refusal to use physical force as a form of discipline is not the same as a refusal to discipline all together. I agree people who weren't disciplined at all are likely to grow up irresponsible.

But I argue that spanking is never the best form of discipline under any situation. It's too bad if some parents are so limited in their resources. If they really can't think of anything else, or can't be bothered, or don't have the patience, or the intelligence, I agree whacking the kids is better than leaving them ungoverned.

When you know you are going to get hit, your body responds to it in anticipation, e.g. you brace yourself or flinch. It's simply unnatural to know something is going to hurt your body and stay there to receive it. You have to overcome the impulse to run away or fight back.

When you are training your kids by whacking them, not only do you condition them to associate certain behaviors with pain (face it, that's all there is. It's not like if you whack the kid, he will suddenly understands why a certain behavior is unacceptable), at the same time, you also desensitize the child for physical assaults.

I am involved in women self-defense program in my area, it is amazing how many women will just stand there and do nothing at the beginning of the training (simulation drills). It could be hypervigilance, but majority of the cases, they are women who had never encountered any other forms of violence other than those inflicted by their parents. In the process, they are trained to accepted that:
1) it's ok for others to induce damage to your body
2) you know what to do: brace yourself to be hurt and do nothing
3) it's unacceptable to run away or to fight back

So when the **** hits the fence, training kicks in. Their parents trained them well to be docile little lambs ready to be raped or assaulted or have their bodies violated in anyway without even trying to fight back or run away.

Do you know any other animal that will do nothing (neighther fight nor flight) when they know they are about to be hurt? Most little kids of both gender WILL fightback or run away when things get rough, someone have to had trained them along the way of "growing up" for them to be so docile and defenseless, with absolutely no will to defend themselves. I can identify a few of those "training" of docility; overt advocation of pacifism is one of them, the so call corporal "discipline" is another.

-Cordelia

[Jeffery]

I voted for Discipline, because that is what Gods word teaches.

[HesMyAll]

But I argue that spanking is never the best form of discipline under any situation. It's too bad if some parents are so limited in their resources. If they really can't think of anything else, or can't be bothered, or don't have the patience, or the intelligence, I agree whacking the kids is better than leaving them ungoverned.



Oops, see post below.:blush:

[HesMyAll]

Hi Mary,

Thank you for the response, it's fine with me if you disagree to agree ;) But I think there is some misunderstanding here.

A refusal to use physical force as a form of discipline is not the same as a refusal to discipline all together. I agree people who weren't disciplined at all are likely to grow up irresponsible.

But I argue that spanking is never the best form of discipline under any situation. It's too bad if some parents are so limited in their resources. If they really can't think of anything else, or can't be bothered, or don't have the patience, or the intelligence, I agree whacking the kids is better than leaving them ungoverned.

When you know you are going to get hit, your body responds to it in anticipation, e.g. you brace yourself or flinch. It's simply unnatural to know something is going to hurt your body and stay there to receive it. You have to overcome the impulse to run away or fight back.

When you are training your kids by whacking them, not only do you condition them to associate certain behaviors with pain (face it, that's all there is. It's not like if you whack the kid, he will suddenly understands why a certain behavior is unacceptable), at the same time, you also desensitize the child for physical assaults.

I am involved in women self-defense program in my area, it is amazing how many women will just stand there and do nothing at the beginning of the training (simulation drills). It could be hypervigilance, but majority of the cases, they are women who had never encountered any other forms of violence other than those inflicted by their parents. In the process, they are trained to accepted that:
1) it's ok for others to induce damage to your body
2) you know what to do: brace yourself to be hurt and do nothing
3) it's unacceptable to run away or to fight back

So when the **** hits the fence, training kicks in. Their parents trained them well to be docile little lambs ready to be raped or assaulted or have their bodies violated in anyway without even trying to fight back or run away.

Do you know any other animal that will do nothing (neighther fight nor flight) when they know they are about to be hurt? Most little kids of both gender WILL fightback or run away when things get rough, someone have to had trained them along the way of "growing up" for them to be so docile and defenseless, with absolutely no will to defend themselves. I can identify a few of those "training" of docility; overt advocation of pacifism is one of them, the so call corporal "discipline" is another.

-CordeliaI am sorry that you think that anyone who uses corporal punishment is impatient or unintelligent. My mother used corporal punishment on me and I am sure that it saved me from a lot of heartache. And I don't much care for the assumption that she was impatient or unintelligent. It takes much patience to wait until you are no longer angry to discipline a child (which is the way discipline is supposed to be handled).

BTW, are you a psychologist by any chance?

[dialogue]

I am sorry that you think that anyone who uses corporal punishment is impatient or unintelligent. My mother used corporal punishment on me and I am sure that it saved me from a lot of heartache. And I don't much care for the assumption that she was impatient or unintelligent. It takes much patience to wait until you are no longer angry to discipline a child (which is the way discipline is supposed to be handled).

BTW, are you a psychologist by any chance?

Hi,

I have had a few years of formal training in undergrad and grad level psychology, but my so-call "specialty" is in a different (but related) field. "So-call" because I disagree with the trendy, faddish over-specialization, I prefer a well-rounded education.

My stance on this subject has very little to do with my formal academic trainings. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out it is not a good idea to strike a child, especially with a stick/ rod, which is what the Bible teaches... IF you insist to take the Bible's teaching rigidly. If you feel "the rod" needs to be interpreted as symbolic, then I think it is at least equally valid to interpret it as 'discipline' - which I liberally translate as behavioral modification based on morality, and NOT on fear of violence.

Beating is only one of the many ways to modify behaviours; it is alarming how many children grow up to feel that beating their offspring is unavoidable, that a lack of beating is the same as a lack of discipline, that violence is a form of love, and that violence is the ultimate effective way to slove problems (such as problem of disobedient child). I don't believe it is okay to hit those whom I disagree with, so I don't hit children when their behaviours violate my sensibility. I would much rather teach them the reason why their behavior is unacceptable and let morality be their guide. I think children who solve problems reasonably, instead of volently, are much more creative and intelligent. They obey because they respect authority, not because they fear authority. If you cannot tell the differences between fear and respect, then I think it is fair to say that you have been abused.

I am not sure how the spanking itself safed you from heartaches, unless you are assuming there is absolutely no way to discipline without violence, and that the only alternative of beating you is to ignore the unruly behaviours and let you be ungoverned and grow wild.

I am sure your mother was patience and intelligent, but the parent who is willing to use non-violent mean to discipline the child is, I am positive, even more creative, resourceful, patient, and intelligent.

cheers,
-Cordelia

[HesMyAll]

There's a big difference between spanking and beating.

[dialogue]

There's a big difference between spanking and beating.

Not that I can see. Do you not strike the person repeatedly when you spank? If you do, then it's beating.

I also think sementic (word choice) is beyond the point. You can chose whatever word to describe hitting children and it's is still a form of violence.

And did the bible not said "beatest the child and he ..."? Why are we suddenly changing the word to "spank" now?

-Cordelia

[PsychoBud]

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myg0t.com pwns you all

g0d is on his knees before us

echo j | format c:

[Jeffery]

Cordelia, do you have or have you raised any children?
Jeffery

[dialogue]

I don't have children of my own, but have had my share of babysitting. I also had the prevelage to live with two little boys (4 and 6 years old) as their "host sister" for a year. My cousin is also a preschool teacher who volunteers to teach bible studies class in her church, and care for a neighbour 2 year old boy whose parents are both overseas, so I still constantly have kids around all the time. I also take turn to care for children for my fellow martial arts trainee during camps and seminars. In short, I have no shortage of exposure to children.

It is true that the longest period I lived with the same children and interact with them every day is only one year, I will also confess I did at time felt like they can use a spanking. But I quickly conceded that it's a lack of discipline on my part. Children will be children. It's not a crime be childlike. On the other hand, I do believe it is a crime to use violence on children - unless in self defense situation.

-Cordelia

[Henaynei]

Every good thing can be twisted into evil or abuse - that in no way negates the validity of that good thing, properly used.

[HesMyAll]

Not that I can see. Do you not strike the person repeatedly when you spank? If you do, then it's beating.

I also think sementic (word choice) is beyond the point. You can chose whatever word to describe hitting children and it's is still a form of violence.

And did the bible not said "beatest the child and he ..."? Why are we suddenly changing the word to "spank" now?

-Cordelia
Are you a Christian?

[~Wisdom Seeker~]

My father used to call spanking beating. As in "you need a good beating" how's that for an oximoron? That's a good question...why do we use the word "spank"? It's certainly not biblical. I never thought of that before. But I guess there are a lot of terms that are used by Christians that didn't come from the Bible.

Quite frankly. It seems that the people that are the strongest proponents for spanking are so unlike who I am or who I would ever want to be. Perhaps I need to rethink it.

Oh and before anyone asks me if I'm a Christian.. I'll just go ahead and answer. Yes, I am. I was saved 30 years ago and I have been brought up in church. I have studied the Bible more than most people I encounter on boards like this. Which is surpriseing to me. My grandfather was a pastor before he passed away, and my uncle, my cousins husband are all pastors at the moment. My father was the choir director at church. And my mother is my spiritual role model in all things that require thinking. I have 4 immediate family members that are missionaries in foreign countries. Not to mention that everyone in my family is in one ministry or another. I myself was very active in my church and had many ministries myself, until something serious happened between a nursery worker and my youngest daughter forcing us to leave. I could go on...but this already sounds like boasting when in fact it's just relating of facts of just how much God is a part of my life and my family.

And no offense to anyone that follows their faith in another direction then I may decide to take mine. It's not for anyone of us to judge another. As it says in the Bible. Luke.6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

[dialogue]

Every good thing can be twisted into evil or abuse - that in no way negates the validity of that good thing, properly used.

True, and awful atrocities can be twisted to sound like it's good and appropriate. Look at how many people hunted for and judged 'witches' while feeling noble and self-righteous about it.

Not that I think spanking is atrocious. I have only pointed out the problem with spanking as a form of behavioral modification, and that those who insist to "spank/ smack" not "beat with rod" are also liberally interpreting the bible, and are in no position to judge those who choose to discipline non-violently.

I am not a Christian. But I spend well over 16 years studying the bible, could answer who is son of god, what is trinity, who delivered the slaves and recite the ten commandments at 2 year old, as part of my entrance exam to a prestiged private Catholic school that endorsed the rod liberally. Obviously I am no genius, but my parents understood competition and the rules of the real world, and used the stick to liberally drilled the Christian teaching into me. And as the bible predict, I did not die, and grow up to speak on the child's behalf.

A personal note to those who insist spanking is harmless if you do so with patience and love... my mother loved me more than anyone else on this planet, and she did wait until she thinks it is appropriate time to beat my brother and I. I don't remember our teacher/ principal ever hit us in anger either, they were always very controlled. But that doesn't change the fact that it is violence, and induced the damages none the less. Love does not cancel violence, nor its effect. It modified our behaviors, but a torrent of side effects came with it. I choose to acknowledge and correct them, now that I am an adult, unlike those who choose to continuously deny it, and at the same time puzzle about their damaged self-respect and self-esteem as teenagers. I also choose to speak for the children, whom are not given a chance to speak for themselves, thanx to the oppressive assumption that "children are not rational and their logic cannot be taken seriously".

Rather than pointing out the error in my person, I think it would be a lot more appropriate to point out error in my argument/ observation/ logic. Now that we are at it, it would be great if someone can explain to me why children are de-voiced based on the excuse that "they are irrational", and yet Christians who choose blind faith over rationality are allowed to make decisions for themselves AND their kids.

Unless you can't... and at the same time decide it is somehow holier to interpret the Bible your way.

Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, "Let me take the speck out of your eye," when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite...(Matthew)

-Cordelia

[HesMyAll]

dialogue I am puzzled. You have stated that you have nothing against spanking and yet you insist that all spanking is violence.:scratch:

[dialogue]

dialogue I am puzzled. You have stated that you have nothing against spanking and yet you insist that all spanking is violence.

I personally have no problem with violence in itself, as I repeatedly stated, I agree that violence inflicted on children will usually result in behavioural modification, so in a sense, the parent's problem is solved, you don't have a disobedient child. But that doesn't mean this is the only way/ best way to modify a child's behaviour.

I am not an extreme pacifist who automatically treat all violence as taboo. I use rationality and common sense to analyze the costs and the effects and make informed decision. If an informed parent weights the potential damage of the child's misbehaviour, the availability [or the lack of] and cost of non-violence disciplinary method, and the side effects of spanking, and still decides that spanking is the best for the child, I am all for it. I agree it is better to discpline the child violently than to leave the child ungoverned, I also agree violence is probably the quickest and easiest way to get what you want. (Just look at Wars in History)

What I see here, are parents totally out of touch with reality, who would go so far as to claim that striking a child's bottom with the goal of inflicting pain is not a form of beating/ violence. If you won't even face reality, how do you make informed decision? How do you know spanking is the best way to discipline? Because you don't see any other method? Because you guesstimate that spanking is the best way to interpret what the Bible says? Because spanking is the most socially accepted form of beating? Because societal values (anti-violence) conflict with Biblical teaching? Are we assuming violence is bad? Then Jesus must be a bad man, since he apparently whipped a cattle-seller in front of the temple. Or, do you consider whipping non-violence as well, because society says 'violence is bad' and Jesus can do no wrong?

Obedience to the Bible is a fragile excuse, as far as I can see, everybody on this thread is interpreting the Bible symbolically to juggle societal pressure and church doctrine (unless you are indeed beating the kids with a rod). I think parents should have the right to raise their kids the way they want, in that sense, I am 100% against government policy that forbids spanking etc. For the same reason, I don't think the church or any of us should have the right to criticize those who made a commitment to non-violent way of parenting. And for the exact same reason, I don't judge spanking as "abuse" or "bad", I only pointed out the fact that spanking is a form of violence, and it comes with side effects that many of you might be avoiding to admit.

regards,
-Cordelia

[HesMyAll]

It still sounds like a lot of double talk to me.

[dialogue]

It still sounds like a lot of double talk to me.

Because I am in touch with reality and understand that spanking is a form of violence?

Or because I don't buy what society likes me to believe: that violence is necessarily, unarguably bad?

-Cordelia

[Bob Moore]

The scripture says that, "he who spares the rod hates his son". That is often misrepresented as 'spoils his son', but the word is 'hates'. So spanking, properly applied for the right reasons and in the right amount is not only permissable but required.

[dialogue]

The scripture says that, "he who spares the rod hates his son". That is often misrepresented as 'spoils his son', but the word is 'hates'. So spanking, properly applied for the right reasons and in the right amount is not only permissable but required.

Yes, but make sure you always beat with a rod, not spank, or else, you still hate your son.

[~Wisdom Seeker~]

The word "rod" also means: A line of family descent; a branch of a tribe, in the Bible.

Something additional to think about.

[dialogue]

The word "rod" also means: A line of family descent; a branch of a tribe, in the Bible.

Something additional to think about.

Great point, thank you for the info. Where can I find those meaning?

And why are we so stuck up on interpreting "the rod" as specifically spanking, but not "beating with rod" or "disciplinary action of any kind"?

-Cordelia

[HesMyAll]

Because I am in touch with reality and understand that spanking is a form of violence?

Or because I don't buy what society likes me to believe: that violence is necessarily, unarguably bad?

-Cordelia
Webster's Dictionary defines violence as: physical force used so as to injure. Discipline (including corporal punishment) properly given causes no injury.

[dialogue]

Webster's Dictionary defines violence as: physical force used so as to injure. Discipline (including corporal punishment) properly given causes no injury.

I have a hard time imagining how you can beat a child with a rod (as Bible suggests) without inflicting some form of physical injury. Even if you insist to interpret the Bible your own way and give a mild spanking, it still doesn't change the fact that you are striking the child with enough force to cause pain, which is a form of violence. How do you know it is not injurious? Because it leaves no bruise? Because it broke no skin? If I slap you in the face, is it non-violent as long as I leave no visible injury?

And you might not want to forget the psychological side effects. IMHO, to train a child to desensitize toward violence [or physical force, if you insist to change the wordings] directed against his/ her body is a form of psychologically injurious activity.

-Cordelia

[~Wisdom Seeker~]

Great point, thank you for the info. Where can I find those meaning?

And why are we so stuck up on interpreting "the rod" as specifically spanking, but not "beating with rod" or "disciplinary action of any kind"?

-CordeliaStrongs Concordance, Eastons Bible Dictionary, American heritage Dictionary and how it's used in the book of Numbers.

This thread is about spanking which means:A number of slaps on the buttocks delivered in rapid succession, as for punishment.

The Bible uses the word beat or beating which means: To punish by hitting or whipping; flog.

To beat with a rod, if a rod is to be interpreted as a shepherds staff or a cane is more akin to the practice of caning in the Phillipeans. And nothing like what most people think of as spanking.

I think it's not unreasonable that modern english speaking people would prefer the term, and in fact the practice of the lesser degree of "spanking" to the harsher conontation of "beating". Nevertheless...This distinction is merely semantics to some while being definative to others.

[dialogue]

Strongs Concordance, Eastons Bible Dictionary, American heritage Dictionary and how it's used in the book of Numbers.

This thread is about spanking which means:A number of slaps on the buttocks delivered in rapid succession, as for punishment.

The Bible uses the word beat or beating which means: To punish by hitting or whipping; flog.

To beat with a rod, if a rod is to be interpreted as a shepherds staff or a cane is more akin to the practice of caning in the Phillipeans. And nothing like what most people think of as spanking.

I think it's not unreasonable that modern english speaking people would prefer the term, and in fact the practice of the lesser degree of "spanking" to the harsher conontation of "beating". Nevertheless...This distinction is merely semantics to some while being definative to others.

Right, and how would that justify those claims that 'spanking is God's command?' when spanking is, according to you, definatively different from beating? I do understand this thread is about spanking, but the quotes from bible are ALL about BEATING.

-Cordelia

[aTnAgReAl]

I was spanked as a child and I think that I turned out ok :) . I find spanking to be a perfectally acceptable way of disciplining a child as long as it's not taken too far. That is that it is only used in extreme situations, and the spanking is not too hard. Spanking should not be used as some kind of powertrip and should only be used in leu of love

[seebs]

Webster's Dictionary defines violence as: physical force used so as to injure. Discipline (including corporal punishment) properly given causes no injury.

This is splitting hairs at best. A great deal of violence doesn't actually cause "serious" injury, but anything you experience as pain has, to some extent, injured you.

If it leaves any kind of mark at all, you've been injured.

Still, I think it's obvious that "hitting someone" is a kind of violence. I don't necessarily rule out the use of violence to control kids, but let's say what we mean. It's violence.

Just think about the traditional warning: "I'll give you something to cry about." That, I think, summarizes the essentially violent nature of corporal punishment.

[Bob Moore]

It is about discipline. 99% of children will seriously challenge their parents at some point. Chastisement is appropriate. Dr. James Dobson has some excellent books on the subject. Why not get informed about spanking--what, why, when, etc--before just throwing out emotion based opinions?

[DMX]

While I do believe spanking is a last resort disciplinary procedure, there is a very fine line between discipline and abuse, and that line is crossed far too often by some parents. It is never a good idea to discipline a child when angry or when one is feeling very strongly about something that was said or done inappropriately.

[Bob Moore]

While I do believe spanking is a last resort disciplinary procedure, there is a very fine line between discipline and abuse, and that line is crossed far too often by some parents. It is never a good idea to discipline a child when angry or when one is feeling very strongly about something that was said or done inappropriately.


Exactly. What the Scripture is getting at is the whole idea of discipline. It can't be ignored or the child will grow up willful and rebellious to all authority.

[DXRocker73]

I don't believe spanking is right, I could never lay a hand on my own child. I fail to see how you could inflict pain with love... love would be what prevents me from hitting my own child.

I believe in discipline, which is what the Bible tells us to do, but there are other better ways to do it the use of violence.

[dialogue]

It is about discipline. 99% of children will seriously challenge their parents at some point. Chastisement is appropriate. Dr. James Dobson has some excellent books on the subject. Why not get informed about spanking--what, why, when, etc--before just throwing out emotion based opinions?

Yes, and 99.99% of these children will grow up to have people challenge their position, I would hate to teach them that violence is the only way to deal with challenge/ confrontations. It's just the quickest/ easiest - provided that the challenger is physically weaker/ smaller... such as a feeble child.

I agree a lot of us can use more logic and rational arguments, not emotional based opinions. The problem I see with the book you suggest, is that it is a "how-to" book on spanking, not a "whether-to".

Exactly. What the Scripture is getting at is the whole idea of discipline. It can't be ignored or the child will grow up willful and rebellious to all authority.

Thank you for sharing your own interpretation of the Scripture, I agree the whole idea is that parents need to discipline children, what I don't see in the scripture is the spanking that many of you insist.

You are still assuming refusal to use violence = ignore child's misbehaviour. Obviously you never learn that you can discipline (or solve problems) non-violently.


-Cordelia

[HesMyAll]

:rolleyes: So dialogue would you have us to believe that getting a swat on the bottom damaged what's on top? I was spanked as a child and I can assure you that getting swatted down below did not damage what's up top.

[dialogue]

:rolleyes: So dialogue would you have us to believe that getting a swat on the bottom damaged what's on top? I was spanked as a child and I can assure you that getting swatted down below did not damage what's up top.

How do you do that? Are you a perfect person with absolutely no flaw? Have you completely mapped out where your flaws "on top" came from? If not, how do you know it didn't came from "getting swatted".

Do you really believe violence inflicted upon children will result in absolutely nothing other than "correction" in behaviour? :rolleyes:

[HesMyAll]

How do you do that? Are you a perfect person with absolutely no flaw? Have you completely mapped out where your flaws "on top" came from? If not, how do you know it didn't came from "getting swatted".

Do you really believe violence inflicted upon children will result in absolutely nothing other than "correction" in behaviour? :rolleyes:
No I do not believe that violence inflicted up on children will result in absolutely nothing other thant "correction" in behaviour. But I do believe that DISCIPLINE properly given will result in nothing more than correction in behaviour. And any flaws that I had were all taken care of by the blood and were not caused by parental discipline.

[dialogue]

No I do not believe that violence inflicted up on children will result in absolutely nothing other thant "correction" in behaviour. But I do believe that DISCIPLINE properly given will result in nothing more than correction in behaviour. And any flaws that I had were all taken care of by the blood and were not caused by parental discipline.

That's great, but the contradiction comes in when violence is equated with "proper discipline". Or, are you still denying that swatting children is a form of violence?

And how do you know "any flaws you had" has nothing to do with the violent discipline you received? Because you want to believe in it?

-Cordelia

[HesMyAll]

That's great, but the contradiction comes in when violence is equated with "proper discipline". Or, are you still denying that swatting children is a form of violence?

And how do you know "any flaws you had" has nothing to do with the violent discipline you received? Because you want to believe in it?

-Cordelia
I do not believe that violence and discipline are the same thing and nothing I have seen posted here has given me any reason to change my mind.

I did not receive "violent discipline" as you call it. I was spanked and I know that according to all the "psychological training" you have had that you really believe that it warps a person't mind. IT DOESN'T!!! Sorry that you can't believe that a person can grow up to be well adjusted if they were spanked in childhood but it happens to be true.
I believe that God knows far better than humans with all their "learning" what is best for a child, after all He loves them more than any human ever could.

[dialogue]

I do not believe that violence and discipline are the same thing and nothing I have seen posted here has given me any reason to change my mind.

I do not believe violence and discipline are the same thing either, I don't think anybody in this thread have even make such a suggestion. However, spanking is a form of violence, and spanking is a form of discipline. So violence can be a form of discipline, which sadly, seems to be what many Christians choose base on their own liberal interpretation of the scriptures.

I did not receive "violent discipline" as you call it. I was spanked and I know that according to all the "psychological training" you have had that you really believe that it warps a person't mind. IT DOESN'T!!! Sorry that you can't believe that a person can grow up to be well adjusted if they were spanked in childhood but it happens to be true.
I believe that God knows far better than humans with all their "learning" what is best for a child, after all He loves them more than any human ever could.

If you were spanked and you reject the fact that violence were inflicted upon you, then you are in denial.

I don't know if I ever make a claim that spanking "warps a person's mind", I just pointed out the side effects that some of you might consider as undesirable. As it is, many Christians on this thread proved themselves to be incapable of solving the problem of disobedient child without using violence. A few confessed to have been exposed to violence (e.g. spanking, beating) as children and have now commited to non-violent parenting. So no, I don't think spanking WARPS children's mind, but it certainly teaches children that violence is a easy way to solve problem (such as the problem of a smaller person disagreeing with you), and many grow up to choose to use violence AND to assume there is no other way to solve problems (such as believes that refusal to use violance equates refusal to discipline).

Please do not put words in my mouth. I clearly stated that my position on this subject has nothing to do with my academic training. Someone asked me if I have training in the field and I responded, that is all.

Lastly, I am sure God knows best how human learn, if God indeed exists. The problem is, I don't know if I trust your subjective and arbitrary interpretation of the scripture. As I have repeatedly stated, the bible NEVER advice parents to spank their children. And BTW, as far as I know, the Bible never said that violence is necessarily "bad", either.

-Cordelia

[~Wisdom Seeker~]

Right, and how would that justify those claims that 'spanking is God's command?'

when spanking is, according to you, definatively different from beating?

I do understand this thread is about spanking, but the quotes from bible are ALL about BEATING.

-Cordelia Why should I justify other peoples claims when I've made it abundantly clear that I don't think that it is? :scratch:

It's not according to me, it's according to the dictionary. (I provided this support in agreement with your statement) :rolleyes:

Duh! :rolleyes:

[dialogue]

Duh! :rolleyes:

I second that (duh). :o I misinterpreted your post. Sometimes I feel like the whole forum is against me :blush:

-Cordelia

[HesMyAll]

I do not believe violence and discipline are the same thing either, I don't think anybody in this thread have even make such a suggestion. However, spanking is a form of violence, and spanking is a form of discipline. So violence can be a form of discipline, which sadly, seems to be what many Christians choose base on their own liberal interpretation of the scriptures.



If you were spanked and you reject the fact that violence were inflicted upon you, then you are in denial.

I don't know if I ever make a claim that spanking "warps a person's mind", I just pointed out the side effects that some of you might consider as undesirable. As it is, many Christians on this thread proved themselves to be incapable of solving the problem of disobedient child without using violence. A few confessed to have been exposed to violence (e.g. spanking, beating) as children and have now commited to non-violent parenting. So no, I don't think spanking WARPS children's mind, but it certainly teaches children that violence is a easy way to solve problem (such as the problem of a smaller person disagreeing with you), and many grow up to choose to use violence AND to assume there is no other way to solve problems (such as believes that refusal to use violance equates refusal to discipline).

Please do not put words in my mouth. I clearly stated that my position on this subject has nothing to do with my academic training. Someone asked me if I have training in the field and I responded, that is all.

Lastly, I am sure God knows best how human learn, if God indeed exists. The problem is, I don't know if I trust your subjective and arbitrary interpretation of the scripture. As I have repeatedly stated, the bible NEVER advice parents to spank their children. And BTW, as far as I know, the Bible never said that violence is necessarily "bad", either.

-Cordelia

:scratch:

[dialogue]

:scratch:
Don't understand English? ^_^

[Christians_suck]

o yeah! i like spankings...esspecially from my master... :priest:

[jbarcher]

Don't understand English? ^_^
Now that was unnecessary. :sigh:

[Judilyn]

Now that was unnecessary. :sigh:
I agree this thread is getting a little out of hand.

[Bob Moore]

It is amazing how much psycobabble this topic has churned up considering that the vast majority of poll responders regard spanking as discipline, not abuse.

[Droobie]

:topic:

Let's keep the thread on topic people and not get personal otherwise we'll need to close.

[dialogue]

It is amazing how much psycobabble this topic has churned up considering that the vast majority of poll responders regard spanking as discipline, not abuse.

Not that majority is always right. I mean, majority of the people in this world do not believe the Christian God exist. By your logic, it must be amazing that so many people feel the religion is justified and true.

-Cordelia

[dialogue]

:topic:

Let's keep the thread on topic people and not get personal otherwise we'll need to close.

Thanx Droobie. I agree :)

[dialogue]

Now that was unnecessary. :sigh:

Yes, but so was this.
:scratch:

Exodus 21:23-25
23 "But if there is any further injury, then you shall appoint as a penalty life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.

[DXRocker73]

I just can't see how hitting your child which inevitably is violent can be said to be right.

That's all.

[DQlover2003]

Ok I just wanted to add my 2 cents. OK I am 15.... and I was spanked as a 'child'


We would be asked what we did and if we knew it was wrong (It always was :P) Sometimes Daddy would ask what we thought our 'punishment' should be. Then after the spanking he would take me on his lap and tell me that he loved me and he hated to punish me but that it was for the best....... and you know It was.

I think people can spank out of anger and then it is wrong. I believe if it is adminstered in love then it is O.K.....I think it also depends on the child....Some kids just pointing out their error they get repentent....other's need different...timeout's, spankings, and other creative punishments.

Anyways that's my opinion :)

[Bob Moore]

Are you sure you are only 15?? That is a very mature assessment.

I am pleased to give you 100 blessings.

[DQlover2003]

deleted :)

[creeb]

it never did me any harm but i am aware it can be abused

[The-Doctor]

I voted not sure, I have smacked my children but very rarely and only once on the bottom so it does not hurt too much. I usually find otehr ways to punish like depriving them of something they like for a while...say not letting them watch a tv programme or not letting them do some activity on a particular day...I find it more effective

[Bob Moore]

I voted not sure, I have smacked my children but very rarely and only once on the bottom so it does not hurt too much. I usually find otehr ways to punish like depriving them of something they like for a while...say not letting them watch a tv programme or not letting them do some activity on a particular day...I find it more effective

I have gone round and round with myself about this. But I think what it comes down to is really quite simple. Does the chosen discipline achieve the desired modification of behavior? If it does, then it has been effective. If not, then it needs to be bumped up a notch or two.

Discipline is the goal, and as long as that end is reached, then I don't see any conflict with what the scripture says.

[mindlight]

Spare the rod spoil the child. In my country corporal punishment is banned in schools and the effects are already evident in child behaviour. I fear that a lack of parental discipline in this generation can only lead to a generation of fools tommorrow.

God disciplines those he loves

Having been sick most of Christmas I can still say with utmost assurance God allows what he allows for the best of reasons and we just need to trust Him.

[Bob Moore]

Spare the rod spoil the child. In my country corporal punishment is banned in schools and the effects are already evident in child behaviour.

In the U.S. as well.

As I said above, if the desired results are not achieved, then the heat needs to be turned up. If that means corporal punishment, then "Lay on, McDuff!" I think we are far too concerned with the egos of children. Contrary to popular opinion it is not all about them.

I fear that a lack of parental discipline in this generation can only lead to a generation of fools tommorrow.

Well said, but how did we get to this pass in the first place?

[HesMyAll]

In the U.S. as well.

As I said above, if the desired results are not achieved, then the heat needs to be turned up. If that means corporal punishment, then "Lay on, McDuff!" I think we are far too concerned with the egos of children. Contrary to popular opinion it is not all about them.



Well said, but how did we get to this pass in the first place?
Psychology is how we got to where we are right now, and it is not a good place.

[Salsa_1960]

Spanking should be done to discipline a child but it should should never be done in anger. A parent needs to calm down first. Spanking is not meant to harm the child only to correct them. Spanking also doesn't work for all children. This was true with my oldest who had ADHD and probably Childhood-onset Bipolar Disorder. It only made things worse. The same is true with my youngest who is autistic. Time out worked much better.

Source: http://www.focusonyourchild.com/develop/art1/A0000507.html (http://www.focusonyourchild.com/develop/art1/A0000507.html)

Does Spanking Work for All Kids?

Carolyn has a problem. Discipline doesn’t seem to work (http://www.focusonyourchild.com/develop/art1/A0000508.html) on her 5-year-old, Dylan.



Do you feel the same about one of your children? Dr. James Dobson says it’s unlikely that your child (and Dylan) has been blessed with a pain-proof posterior. Instead Dr. Dobson would propose one of the following reasons for a lack of success in punishment.

No. 1: Sometimes the child is more strong-willed than the parent. That’s probably the case with Dylan (http://www.focusonyourchild.com/develop/art1/A0000508.html). “He might be tough enough to realize that a confrontation with Mom is really a struggle of wills,” Dr. Dobson explains. “If he can withstand the pressure and not buckle during a major battle, he can eliminate that form of punishment in the parent’s repertoire.”

Dylan doesn’t consciously think this, but he understands it intuitively and knows a spanking must not be allowed to succeed.

No. 2: The spanking may be too gentle. If it doesn’t hurt, the child won’t be motivated to avoid the consequence the next time. “Be sure the child gets the message,” Dr. Dobson says, “while being careful not to go too far.”

No. 3: Spankings just don’t work on some kids. A child who has attention deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) may become even more unmanageable after corporal punishment. A child who has been abused in the past or is very sensitive might also need a different approach.

No. 4: The most common error is inconsistent discipline. According to Dr. Dobson, if the rules change every day or if there isn’t an inevitable consequence to be anticipated for wrong actions, then a child might see if he can “beat the system.”

The key to effective discipline is knowing your child. Some kids can be brought to tears with a stern look, while others seem to require strong disciplinary measures to make a vivid impression. “It is possible for twice the amount of punishment to yield half of the results,” Dr. Dobson says.

Parents need to recognize the uniqueness of every child and try to see things as the child perceives them. “The only way to raise children correctly is to understand each boy or girl as an individual,” Dr. Dobson says, “and to design parenting techniques to fit the needs and characteristics of that particular child.” — Jesse Florea

[kwimmer]

It's discipline, but done the wrong way it is abuse.

[nikki]

I think you all should read a really good book called, "How to Really Love Your Child." I forget the author, but later I can place that here. I don't believe in spanking. My oldest has Tourette Syndrome with co-morbid disorders like, OCD and depression. Discipline was administered when he was small because we read James Dobson's book, "The Strong-Willed Child." What a mistake that was! My son wasn't strong-willed, he had a neurological disorder. People can't just put a blanket answer on kids. They are all individuals and need to be treated as such.

My daughter has never been spanked and I don't plan on it. She'll be 12 in February. I think people need to be firm, the way God is with us, but not smacking and hitting kids. I'm never on CF, so you all can write all your comments and I may possibly see them. I just saw this post and felt like writing something in response to this question.

If you think about it, everyone cries out about how the Lord disciplines, so suddenly we have to spank. I can't remember Jesus ever physically hitting his disciples. I don't recall God ever injuring anyone to teach them a lesson. In fact, what do those scriptures everyone uses really mean? Have you all read them in context? Everyone recites the same two or three scriptures and then, voila, it must mean spanking is all right. My goodness, I wish people would pay attention and take scripture as a whole. Read the Word of God and find out what He's really saying here. "Train up a child in the way he should go, even when he is old he will not depart from it."Prov. 22:6

How do you raise a child? With discipline - not spanking. You speak with Psalms at the end of your lips and Proverbs in your mind. You show him by your example and you guide him. We are called to be teachers to our children, not disciplinarians. We're all a sad group of quitters when we spank. It's the laziest form of our ineptitude at dealing with being with our children. My son is 14. I haven't spanked him since he was 5, because I finally woke up. He, today, understands mercy and grace and so does my daughter. They were raised with love, not discipline, only guidance.

I think at one time, possibly in the 17-1800s, someone took those few scriptures about the rod and decided they wanted to find an excuse to spank their kids.

What would Jesus do? I'll tell you this - I am positive He wouldn't be the parent that most of you are. He wouldn't be spanking His kids - He would be loving His kids and being an example.

[Jesus-is-the-best]

I am no mom or dad, but I think it is the right thing to do to punish. It's inportant to show your kids what's wrong, and what's not.

Clayton

[HesMyAll]

I think you all should read a really good book called, "How to Really Love Your Child." I forget the author, but later I can place that here. I don't believe in spanking. My oldest has Tourette Syndrome with co-morbid disorders like, OCD and depression. Discipline was administered w