Do you believe in spanking?

[k]

750+ responses and precious few make reference to The Word of God. We have basically 75 pages of personal opinions. What ever happend to taking God at His word? Could it possibly be that we, as the enlightened generation, have arrived at the conclusion that we know better than God what discipline a child needs? It is assuredly so.


Proverbs 23:12-14, Apply thy heart unto instruction, And thine ears to the words of knowledge. Withhold not correction from the child; For if thou beat him with the rod, he will not die. Thou shalt beat him with the rod, And shalt deliver his soul from Sheol.

But from what I have read here there are not many of you who suppose God knows what he is talking about.

There are a LOT of posts referencing scripture and several of us have cited it to support our positions. It seems to me the charge here is not necessarily one that people are lacking in the use of scripture, but that some are not interpreting it the way it should be.

[mark53]

750+ responses and precious few make reference to The Word of God. We have basically 75 pages of personal opinions. What ever happend to taking God at His word? Could it possibly be that we, as the enlightened generation, have arrived at the conclusion that we know better than God what discipline a child needs? It is assuredly so.


Proverbs 23:12-14, Apply thy heart unto instruction, And thine ears to the words of knowledge. Withhold not correction from the child; For if thou beat him with the rod, he will not die. Thou shalt beat him with the rod, And shalt deliver his soul from Sheol.

But from what I have read here there are not many of you who suppose God knows what he is talking about.

This last sentence causes a problem for many people! e.g (for a start) how does one translate the Hebrew word for 'rod'? There are a number of possibilities as I mentioned some days before.
Problems like God encourages rape and murder, ethnic cleansing - which he demanded!
Minor ones like how to deal with mould. (don't use those anti mould sprays!) Epilepsy is demon possession. And if one reads the holiness code you will find many others which do not fit into today's understanding. They were right for then but not for now. So how does one seperate which is applicable for then and for now!

Why use these passages in Proverbs which would be one of the least used and quoted books in the Bible?

[KingZzub]

This last sentence causes a problem for many people! e.g (for a start) how does one translate the Hebrew word for 'rod'? There are a number of possibilities as I mentioned some days before.
Problems like God encourages rape and murder, ethnic cleansing - which he demanded!
Minor ones like how to deal with mould. (don't use those anti mould sprays!) Epilepsy is demon possession. And if one reads the holiness code you will find many others which do not fit into today's understanding. They were right for then but not for now. So how does one seperate which is applicable for then and for now!

Why use these passages in Proverbs which would be one of the least used and quoted books in the Bible?

This explains a lot...

[KingZzub]

750+ responses and precious few make reference to The Word of God. We have basically 75 pages of personal opinions. What ever happend to taking God at His word? Could it possibly be that we, as the enlightened generation, have arrived at the conclusion that we know better than God what discipline a child needs? It is assuredly so.


Proverbs 23:12-14, Apply thy heart unto instruction, And thine ears to the words of knowledge. Withhold not correction from the child; For if thou beat him with the rod, he will not die. Thou shalt beat him with the rod, And shalt deliver his soul from Sheol.

But from what I have read here there are not many of you who suppose God knows what he is talking about.

There are only so many ways you can translate rod.

Some people think it is unChristlike to spank. Is this the same Jesus who was the Commander of Hosts at Jericho? Christ is a good God, but He is not a wimp.

I have spanked my sons for the last 10 years, and I consider them to be better behaved than the children that are not spanked.

As a Sunday school teacher, I can generally tell which children are disciplined and which are not.

Cheers,
|ZZ|

[mark53]

There are only so many ways you can translate rod.


Cheers,
|ZZ|

Well, for "Gesenius' Hebrew - Chaldee Lexicon to the O T " (Strong's)
7626 'Shebet' pronounced 'shay bet'

Staff, stick, rod
1/ used for beating or striking; and chastening - the rod which corrects
2/ a shepherd's rod - a crook
3/ the scepter of a king, leader, etc
4/ a tribe of Israelites (linked to 3) i.q. family
5/ a measuring rod - a portion measured off
6/ a spear.

Use other dictionaries and lexicons and we would be bound to add more meanings!

So pick which one of these to translate the word used in the Hebrew!

[k]

Well, for "Gesenius' Hebrew - Chaldee Lexicon to the O T " (Strong's)
7626 'Shebet' pronounced 'shay bet'

Staff, stick, rod
1/ used for beating or striking; and chastening - the rod which corrects
2/ a shepherd's rod - a crook
3/ the scepter of a king, leader, etc
4/ a tribe of Israelites (linked to 3) i.q. family
5/ a measuring rod - a portion measured off
6/ a spear.

Use other dictionaries and lexicons and we would be bound to add more meanings!

So pick which one of these to translate the word used in the Hebrew!


Aside from how many ways it could be translated, let's look to see how often it is used in what context in Scripture:



"SYMBOLIZING DIRECT HERITAGE FROM GOD (offshoot)
Psalm 74:2: Remember thy congregation, which thou hast purchased of old; the rod of thine inheritance, which thou hast redeemed; this mount Zion, wherein thou hast dwelt Jeremiah 10:16: The portion of Jacob is not like them: for he is the former of all things; and Israel is the rod of his inheritance: The LORD of hosts is his name. Jeremiah 51:19: The portion of Jacob is not like them; for he is the former of all things: and Israel is the rod of his inheritance: the LORD of hosts is his name.

SYMBOLIZING THE AUTHORITY OF THE WICKED
Psalm 125:3: For the rod of the wicked shall not rest upon the lot of the righteous; lest the righteous put forth their hands unto iniquity. Proverbs 22:8: He that soweth iniquity shall reap vanity: and the rod of his anger shall fail.

A ROD TO BE USED ON A FOOL (Fool meaning stupid or silly, literally meaning fat...has a connotation of cocky)

Proverbs 10:13: In the lips of him that hath understanding wisdom is found: but a rod is for the back of him that is void of understanding. Proverbs 26:3: A whip for the horse, a bridle for the ass, and a rod for the fool's back.

SYMBOLIZING MAN'S AUTHORITY
II Samuel 7:14: I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men: Ezekiel 19:11: And she had strong rods for the sceptres of them that bare rule, and her stature was exalted among the thick branches, and she appeared in her height with the multitude of her branches. Ezekiel 19:14: And fire is gone out of a rod of her branches, which hath devoured her fruit, so that she hath no strong rod to be a sceptre to rule. This is a lamentation, and shall be for a lamentation.

SYMBOLIZING GOD'S AUTHORITY
Job 9:34: Let him take his rod away from me, and let not his fear terrify me: Job 21:9: Their houses are safe from fear, neither is the rod of God upon them. Psalm 89:32: Then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes. Isaiah 10:5: O Assyrian, the rod of mine anger, and the staff in their hand is mine indignation Isaiah 10:15: Shall the axe boast itself against him that heweth therewith? or shall the saw magnify itself against him that shaketh it? as if the rod should shake itself against them that lift it up, or as if the staff should lift up itself, as if it were no wood. Isaiah 11:4: But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked. Lamentations 3:1: I am the man that hath seen affliction by the rod of his wrath. Micah 7:14: Feed thy people with thy rod, the flock of thine heritage, which dwell solitarily in the wood, in the midst of Carmel: let them feed in Bashan and Gilead, as in the days of old. Ezekiel 20:37: And I will cause you to pass under the rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the covenant: Ezekiel 21:10: It is sharpened to make a sore slaughter; it is furbished that it may glitter: should we then make mirth? it contemneth the rod of my son, as every tree. Ezekiel 21:13: Because it is a trial, and what if the sword contemn even the rod? it shall be no more, saith the Lord GOD.

SYMBOLIZING THE AUTHORITY OF A NATION
Isaiah 9:4: For thou hast broken the yoke of his burden, and the staff of his shoulder, the rod of his oppressor, as in the day of Midian. Isaiah 14:29: Rejoice not thou, whole Palestina, because the rod of him that smote thee is broken: for out of the serpent's root shall come forth a cockatrice, and his fruit shall be a fiery flying serpent. Isaiah 30:31: For through the voice of the LORD shall the Assyrian be beaten down, which smote with a rod. Micah 5:1: Now gather thyself in troops, O daughter of troops: he hath laid siege against us: they shall smite the judge of Israel with a rod upon the cheek.

Thus all 36 places where this word is used "rod" in the KJV has been recorded in conjunction with the full counsel of God.

There are only a few places that "shebet" is possibly referring to a literal rod in connection with hitting someone.

First let us look at Exodus 21:20:

Exodus 21:20: And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished.

This Scripture in Exodus says that if this rod were used on a maid or servant and killed them that it was punishable. So, one can see that it had to be a heavy duty instrument capable of killing someone which would be consistent with the idea of a staff or club. If it is ok to spank a child using this instrument, then it is not mentioned here and if it were, then the child could die by its use.

Next, one should examine the meaning of "the stripes of the children of men" in II Samuel 7:14:

II Samuel 7:14: I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men:

Here is a lengthy quote from Matthew Henry's Commentary on this particular verse:

I will be his father, and he shall be my son. We need no more to make us and ours happy than to have God to be a Father to us and them; and all those to whom God is a Father he by his grace makes his sons, by giving them the disposition of children. If he be a careful, tender, bountiful Father to us, we must be obedient, tractable, dutiful children to him. The promise here speaks as unto sons. [1.] That his Father would correct him when there was occasion; for what son is he whom the Father chasteneth not? Afflictions are an article of the covenant, and are not only consistent with, but flow from, God's fatherly love. "If he commit iniquity, as it proved he did (1 Ki. 11:1), I will chasten him to bring him to repentance, but it shall be with the rod of men, such a rod as men may wieldÂ-I will not plead against him with the great power of God,'' Job 23:6. Or rather such a rod as men may bear Â-"I will consider his frame, and correct him with all possible tenderness and compassion when there is need, and no more than there is need of; it shall be with the stripes, the touches (so the word is) of the children of men; not a stroke, or wound, but a gentle touch.'' [2.] That yet he would not disinherit him (v. 15): My mercy (and that is the inheritance of sons) shall not depart from him. The revolt of the ten tribes from the house of David was their correction for iniquity, but the constant adherence of the other two to that family, which was a competent support of the royal dignity, perpetuated the mercy of God to the seed of David, according to this promise; though that family was cut short, yet it was not cut off, as the house of Saul was. Never any other family swayed the sceptre of Judah than that of David. This is that covenant of royalty celebrated (Ps. 89:3, etc.) as typical of the covenant of redemption and grace. 2. Others of them relate to Christ, who is often called David and the Son of David, that Son of David to whom these promises pointed and in whom they had their full accomplishment.

When one observes the use of the rod on fools, this would be adults who are "fools" because they are grown and still have no self-control. It would be comparable to a criminal being beaten. This is not speaking of a young child. There are examples of criminals being beaten in Scripture. There are NO examples of children being beaten with any rod.
In most other instances the word "rod" is used to symbolize God's authority or the authority of a nation."
http://joanneaz_2.tripod.com/positivedisciplineresourcecenter/id4.html

This is one of the more interesting and convincing points:

"Many Christians have taken FIVE verses and hung a whole child rearing philosophy on them! Parents are told to use this as a primary form of punishment (what these experts refer to as discipline). Some use the word "punishment" and the term "discipline" interchangeably when they mean two entirely different things. These people are basing their theology on nothing more than the traditions of men!"

[firestar]

Although I don't think it's abusive in every case, I don't agree with it.

[FreeSpiritFaith]

I have mixed feelings on the subject. If u spank your kids, then u are basically saying that it is ok for u to his because you are a mom, and sending the message that its okay because mom does it. But children do need to be spanked as a last resort of discipline only, if all other options are exhauseted.

[Bob Moore]

This last sentence causes a problem for many people! e.g (for a start) how does one translate the Hebrew word for 'rod'? There are a number of possibilities as I mentioned some days before.

It is the idea that is important, not the precise word. 'Rod' conveys the idea quite nicely.


Problems like God encourages rape and murder, ethnic cleansing - which he demanded!

What God commands is what God commands. We must remember that God can do with His creation whatever pleases. And since His thoughts are above our thoughts we are in no position to question Him or put human reasoning above the divine.

They were right for then but not for now. So how does one seperate which is applicable for then and for now!


The principle under discussion is the discipline of children. That has not changed with time.

Why use these passages in Proverbs which would be one of the least used and quoted books in the Bible?

As Paul said, "I have not shunned to declare to you the whole counsel of God". Proverbs are just that: proverbs. They are practical wisdom for daily life. I would suggest that everyone would be better off to pay more attention to them.

Why did I use Proverbs to make a point? Because:

Proverbs 1:1-7 The proverbs of Solomon the son of David, king of Israel; To know wisdom and instruction; to perceive the words of understanding; To receive the instruction of wisdom, justice, and judgment, and equity; To give subtilty to the simple, to the young man knowledge and discretion. A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; and a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels: To understand a proverb, and the interpretation; the words of the wise, and their dark sayings. The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.

[k]

Is post #756 invisible, or is it just not worth addressing?

[SallyNow]

Is post #756 invisible, or is it just not worth addressing?

Good posts with tough questions are often overlooked. :sigh:

[Mr. Lunt]

From what I have seen, most childern who are not spanked by their parents for misbehaving, seem to have little respect for them.

[GodlilPrincess]

I was spanked as child. I think it's a good discipline, but i do not think it should be used in schools only by the child's guardian/parent...i see no reason for a teacher to be doing that to someone elses kid. And some kids just needs to be disciplined that way.

[sethad]

From what I have seen, most childern who are not spanked by their parents for misbehaving, seem to have little respect for them.


You're confusing things. Kids like that who have no respect for their parents aren't disciplined at all. Spanking isn't the only way to discipline kids.

There's other ways of disciplining besides spanking that are just as effective if not more effective.


I was spanked as child. I think it's a good discipline, but i do not think it should be used in schools only by the child's guardian/parent...i see no reason for a teacher to be doing that to someone elses kid. And some kids just needs to be disciplined that way.


As I've said before...

If kids are spanked at home but not at school they'll know they aren't going to be spanked at school and then that gives room for manipulation.

[Warrior4Truth309]

I am 18, and I would not be the person I am today had I not been spanked when I did something I should not have done..( such as pull the chair out from underneath my younger brother when he was standing up if front of it, fixing to sit down)
I do not have children yet, but I do believe in spanking. The bible says, *Spare the rod, spoil the child* I do not believe in abuse though. I believe that the spanking should be done enough to get the child's attention. Sometimes though, when a child has been spanked enough times, all that has to be done is tell them once that if they continue on, they will be spanked. That is what my mom did, and because of it, I have been in very little trouble, because I dont want a spanking...;)
GOD BLESS

[k]

I am 18, and I would not be the person I am today had I not been spanked when I did something I should not have done..( such as pull the chair out from underneath my younger brother when he was standing up if front of it, fixing to sit down)
I do not have children yet, but I do believe in spanking. The bible says, *Spare the rod, spoil the child* I do not believe in abuse though. I believe that the spanking should be done enough to get the child's attention. Sometimes though, when a child has been spanked enough times, all that has to be done is tell them once that if they continue on, they will be spanked. That is what my mom did, and because of it, I have been in very little trouble, because I dont want a spanking...;)
GOD BLESS

It may help to go back a couple of pages and see some links on the usage of "spare the rod.." because it shows how that does not mean we are supposed to hit children, but rather teach them Respect.

[Heart4Him]

scourge
n 1: a whip used to inflict punishment 2: something causes misery or death; "3: a person who inspires fear or dread; [syn: terror (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=terror), threat (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=threat)] v 1: punish severely; excoriate 2: whip
scourge (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=devastate)
n.

A source of widespread dreadful affliction and devastation such as that caused by pestilence or war.
A means of inflicting severe suffering, vengeance, or punishment.
A whip used to inflict punishment.
Proverbs 23:13-14"Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die.Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell."

I looked up the word "rod" in the dictionary and it gives 4 or 5 definitions, most of which can easily ruled out for the context of this scripture. It can mean any kind of long, straight object made of wood or metal, or a limb or piece of wood cut off from a tree branch - used for whipping.

Another scripture I'd like to share that I think goes right along with the meaning of the verses in Proverbs is:
Hebrews 12:6-7"For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth(corrects), and scourgeth(see above definition) every son whom he receiveth. If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?"

I believe these scriptures from the Word of God speak for themselves. The word that God used in the Hebrews verses means exactly what it says. I don't believe there is any room for interjecting meaning into God's word that just isn't there. Of course, I think the Lord expects us to teach our children to respect us but in these verses "the rod", etc. is not just symbolism for teaching respect. Discipline has many aspects to it, not just respect, not just spanking. It depends on the seriousness of the issue.

[sethad]

scourge
n 1: a whip used to inflict punishment 2: something causes misery or death; "3: a person who inspires fear or dread; [syn: terror (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=terror), threat (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=threat)] v 1: punish severely; excoriate 2: whip
scourge (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=devastate)
n.

A source of widespread dreadful affliction and devastation such as that caused by pestilence or war.
A means of inflicting severe suffering, vengeance, or punishment.
A whip used to inflict punishment.Proverbs 23:13-14"Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die.Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell."

I looked up the word "rod" in the dictionary and it gives 4 or 5 definitions, most of which can easily ruled out for the context of this scripture. It can mean any kind of long, straight object made of wood or metal, or a limb or piece of wood cut off from a tree branch - used for whipping.

Another scripture I'd like to share that I think goes right along with the meaning of the verses in Proverbs is:
Hebrews 12:6-7"For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth(corrects), and scourgeth(see above definition) every son whom he receiveth. If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?"

I believe these scriptures from the Word of God speak for themselves. The word that God used in the Hebrews verses means exactly what it says. I don't believe there is any room for interjecting meaning into God's word that just isn't there. Of course, I think the Lord expects us to teach our children to respect us but in these verses "the rod", etc. is not just symbolism for teaching respect. Discipline has many aspects to it, not just respect, not just spanking. It depends on the seriousness of the issue.



Oh yes so if its a more serious offense you should whip them...uh uh...

As neverstop said go back and read the use of the word "rod" in the Bible, there are many.

I find it pretty disturbing that people would even think of spanking their kid with anymore then just a flat hand. Adults don't always realize how strong they are.

[Heart4Him]

I actually tend to agree with you, Seth. I don't whip my children with a metal object or a tree limb. The hand works just fine, and only when necessary. I was simply trying to put the verses back into the context that I think they are meant. I don't believe that "the rod" signifies "teaching respect" only. I also think that when the Bible was written so long ago certain terms like this that were used ,in today's language can seem extreme to us. But I do believe God's Word and that I must be obedient to it. I think that discipline is about 80 percent verbal correction, guidance, and love; about 20 percent physical correction (like spanking). I can probably count on one hand how many times I have had to spank my children. I don't think it is something you do every day for every single thing they do wrong. I believe that our relationship when it comes to discipline with our children, should be an example of our heavenly Father's relationship to us - a loving, protective Father who teaches, corrects, and sometimes chastens or punishes if we need it. (BECAUSE He loves Us)
I have seen some of the prior posts and I am sure that this topic has to be very difficult for certain people. I think that loving and protecting and guiding your kids in the ways that they should go is the single most important thing that you can do for them. I think if we as parents are doing all that we can to give our kids what they require in the ways of love and discipline, spanking will not be needed very frequently, if we start from the time they are babies teaching them right from wrong, and the principles of God's Word. God Bless:)

[k]

scourge
n 1: a whip used to inflict punishment 2: something causes misery or death; "3: a person who inspires fear or dread; [syn: terror (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=terror), threat (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=threat)] v 1: punish severely; excoriate 2: whip
scourge (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=devastate)
n.

A source of widespread dreadful affliction and devastation such as that caused by pestilence or war.
A means of inflicting severe suffering, vengeance, or punishment.
A whip used to inflict punishment.Proverbs 23:13-14"Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die.Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell."

I looked up the word "rod" in the dictionary and it gives 4 or 5 definitions, most of which can easily ruled out for the context of this scripture. It can mean any kind of long, straight object made of wood or metal, or a limb or piece of wood cut off from a tree branch - used for whipping.

Another scripture I'd like to share that I think goes right along with the meaning of the verses in Proverbs is:
Hebrews 12:6-7"For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth(corrects), and scourgeth(see above definition) every son whom he receiveth. If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?"

I believe these scriptures from the Word of God speak for themselves. The word that God used in the Hebrews verses means exactly what it says. I don't believe there is any room for interjecting meaning into God's word that just isn't there. Of course, I think the Lord expects us to teach our children to respect us but in these verses "the rod", etc. is not just symbolism for teaching respect. Discipline has many aspects to it, not just respect, not just spanking. It depends on the seriousness of the issue.



"SYMBOLIZING DIRECT HERITAGE FROM GOD (offshoot)
Psalm 74:2: Remember thy congregation, which thou hast purchased of old; the rod of thine inheritance, which thou hast redeemed; this mount Zion, wherein thou hast dwelt Jeremiah 10:16: The portion of Jacob is not like them: for he is the former of all things; and Israel is the rod of his inheritance: The LORD of hosts is his name. Jeremiah 51:19: The portion of Jacob is not like them; for he is the former of all things: and Israel is the rod of his inheritance: the LORD of hosts is his name.

SYMBOLIZING THE AUTHORITY OF THE WICKED
Psalm 125:3: For the rod of the wicked shall not rest upon the lot of the righteous; lest the righteous put forth their hands unto iniquity. Proverbs 22:8: He that soweth iniquity shall reap vanity: and the rod of his anger shall fail.

A ROD TO BE USED ON A FOOL (Fool meaning stupid or silly, literally meaning fat...has a connotation of cocky)

Proverbs 10:13: In the lips of him that hath understanding wisdom is found: but a rod is for the back of him that is void of understanding. Proverbs 26:3: A whip for the horse, a bridle for the ass, and a rod for the fool's back.

SYMBOLIZING MAN'S AUTHORITY
II Samuel 7:14: I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men: Ezekiel 19:11: And she had strong rods for the sceptres of them that bare rule, and her stature was exalted among the thick branches, and she appeared in her height with the multitude of her branches. Ezekiel 19:14: And fire is gone out of a rod of her branches, which hath devoured her fruit, so that she hath no strong rod to be a sceptre to rule. This is a lamentation, and shall be for a lamentation.

SYMBOLIZING GOD'S AUTHORITY
Job 9:34: Let him take his rod away from me, and let not his fear terrify me: Job 21:9: Their houses are safe from fear, neither is the rod of God upon them. Psalm 89:32: Then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes. Isaiah 10:5: O Assyrian, the rod of mine anger, and the staff in their hand is mine indignation Isaiah 10:15: Shall the axe boast itself against him that heweth therewith? or shall the saw magnify itself against him that shaketh it? as if the rod should shake itself against them that lift it up, or as if the staff should lift up itself, as if it were no wood. Isaiah 11:4: But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked. Lamentations 3:1: I am the man that hath seen affliction by the rod of his wrath. Micah 7:14: Feed thy people with thy rod, the flock of thine heritage, which dwell solitarily in the wood, in the midst of Carmel: let them feed in Bashan and Gilead, as in the days of old. Ezekiel 20:37: And I will cause you to pass under the rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the covenant: Ezekiel 21:10: It is sharpened to make a sore slaughter; it is furbished that it may glitter: should we then make mirth? it contemneth the rod of my son, as every tree. Ezekiel 21:13: Because it is a trial, and what if the sword contemn even the rod? it shall be no more, saith the Lord GOD.

SYMBOLIZING THE AUTHORITY OF A NATION
Isaiah 9:4: For thou hast broken the yoke of his burden, and the staff of his shoulder, the rod of his oppressor, as in the day of Midian. Isaiah 14:29: Rejoice not thou, whole Palestina, because the rod of him that smote thee is broken: for out of the serpent's root shall come forth a cockatrice, and his fruit shall be a fiery flying serpent. Isaiah 30:31: For through the voice of the LORD shall the Assyrian be beaten down, which smote with a rod. Micah 5:1: Now gather thyself in troops, O daughter of troops: he hath laid siege against us: they shall smite the judge of Israel with a rod upon the cheek.

Thus all 36 places where this word is used "rod" in the KJV has been recorded in conjunction with the full counsel of God.

There are only a few places that "shebet" is possibly referring to a literal rod in connection with hitting someone.

First let us look at Exodus 21:20:

Exodus 21:20: And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished.

This Scripture in Exodus says that if this rod were used on a maid or servant and killed them that it was punishable. So, one can see that it had to be a heavy duty instrument capable of killing someone which would be consistent with the idea of a staff or club. If it is ok to spank a child using this instrument, then it is not mentioned here and if it were, then the child could die by its use.

Next, one should examine the meaning of "the stripes of the children of men" in II Samuel 7:14:

II Samuel 7:14: I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men:

Here is a lengthy quote from Matthew Henry's Commentary on this particular verse:

I will be his father, and he shall be my son. We need no more to make us and ours happy than to have God to be a Father to us and them; and all those to whom God is a Father he by his grace makes his sons, by giving them the disposition of children. If he be a careful, tender, bountiful Father to us, we must be obedient, tractable, dutiful children to him. The promise here speaks as unto sons. [1.] That his Father would correct him when there was occasion; for what son is he whom the Father chasteneth not? Afflictions are an article of the covenant, and are not only consistent with, but flow from, God's fatherly love. "If he commit iniquity, as it proved he did (1 Ki. 11:1), I will chasten him to bring him to repentance, but it shall be with the rod of men, such a rod as men may wieldÂ-I will not plead against him with the great power of God,'' Job 23:6. Or rather such a rod as men may bear Â-"I will consider his frame, and correct him with all possible tenderness and compassion when there is need, and no more than there is need of; it shall be with the stripes, the touches (so the word is) of the children of men; not a stroke, or wound, but a gentle touch.'' [2.] That yet he would not disinherit him (v. 15): My mercy (and that is the inheritance of sons) shall not depart from him. The revolt of the ten tribes from the house of David was their correction for iniquity, but the constant adherence of the other two to that family, which was a competent support of the royal dignity, perpetuated the mercy of God to the seed of David, according to this promise; though that family was cut short, yet it was not cut off, as the house of Saul was. Never any other family swayed the sceptre of Judah than that of David. This is that covenant of royalty celebrated (Ps. 89:3, etc.) as typical of the covenant of redemption and grace. 2. Others of them relate to Christ, who is often called David and the Son of David, that Son of David to whom these promises pointed and in whom they had their full accomplishment.

When one observes the use of the rod on fools, this would be adults who are "fools" because they are grown and still have no self-control. It would be comparable to a criminal being beaten. This is not speaking of a young child. There are examples of criminals being beaten in Scripture. There are NO examples of children being beaten with any rod.
In most other instances the word "rod" is used to symbolize God's authority or the authority of a nation."
http://joanneaz_2.tripod.com/positiv...enter/id4.html (http://joanneaz_2.tripod.com/positivedisciplineresourcecenter/id4.html)

This is one of the more interesting and convincing points:

"Many Christians have taken FIVE verses and hung a whole child rearing philosophy on them! Parents are told to use this as a primary form of punishment (what these experts refer to as discipline). Some use the word "punishment" and the term "discipline" interchangeably when they mean two entirely different things. These people are basing their theology on nothing more than the traditions of men!"

[GodsJewel]

I was spanked when I was child and I'm going to spank my children. I'm not going to go as far as being smacked in the face or mouth like I was at times.

[PuppyPawz]

I am a firm believer that spanking is an effective disciplinary tool. The problem with spanking, however, is when does it become abuse? This answer varies from person to person. My personal take is if the spanking is a swift swat on the clothed bottom, than it is ok. If the spank leaves a mark or causes the child so much pain that he or she cannot sit, then too much force was used and a parent should re-evaluate their methods. It also should be used as a teaching tool, not to instill fear in the child. I also believe that spanking should never be used as the sole form of discipline. It should be an occassional measure accompanied with time-outs and other non-physical forms of punishment. Age is a factor in my opinion as well. I would never spank a child passed the school-age, nor in public because that could humilate the child which can have adverse effects later. These are only my feelings on the subject and how I will be raising my children. :wave:

[sethad]

Like it or not...if you hit a kid the kid WILL be afraid...no getting around that

[PuppyPawz]

You are entitled to your opinion, and I humbly disagree. I was a child who was occassionally spanked and never for one second was I afraid of my parents! To make such a bold statement about the general public is very naive. :doh:

[sethad]

You werent afraid of your parents or of getting a spanking?

Interesting.

[YC Bearzie]

I't really depends on the situation. Often it can be carried too far. But just sending a kid to their room doesn't always work. And also it varies w/ each child what form of discipline is suited better. When I have have children I know that they will occasionally be spanked.

[dalej42]

I'd never hit a child. Punishment by removing privileges is ok. Striking a child is immoral in my opinion.

[k]

For those who advocate hitting a child for correction, should we also hit adults to correct them as well? After all, God has no grandchildren and pastors/priests are in the pseudo-parental role of churches.

[Im-revived]

I totally agree with Neverstops statement, not only that if an adult hits a child in anyway, it is like saying to the child its ok to hit out, they grow up then were does it end in street fights, school bullying, and in the end wars.

Im-revived For those who advocate hitting a child for correction, should we also hit adults to correct them as well? After all, God has no grandchildren and pastors/priests are in the pseudo-parental role of churches.

[UncleRicky]

Greetings All,

Someone once told me "You should spank your kids at least once a day. If YOU don't know why they are being spanked, at least THEY do." :cry:

Cheers

[Godslilgurlalways]

I feel there is a line between spanking and abusing children. a very big line between the two. When I was young I was but you also need to tell your children why you are doing it. Spare the rod you spoil the child but really what is the rod of correction is it the bible which it very well could be. I am not qualified to have kids so I really ot sure what I would do (not old enough and married) I would ask God for hs opinion.:)

[newyorknewyork]

What do you think of spanking? And no, I don't mean the 'in the bedroom' kind. Have you or were you spanked as a child? Do you or do you intend to spank your children? Do some kids need a smack? Do some adults need a smack? Some countries still have corporal punishment for adults. What are your thoughts?

i love the question: do some adults need a spank? LOL!!!
no im not being naughty, i think its hilarious!! :D :D hehe
i was bashed, strangled and abused in almost every way as a child so i will certainly not be doing that to our kids wen we have them

i voted abuse corporal punishment is abuse not discipline
u can discipline other ways

[theangel]

I could use a good spanking myself

[handmaiden97]

I beleive it is a good form of discipline and done right can not be confused with abuse.

Growing up the only spanking i got was out of anger and borderlined abuse.....it wasnt until I moved in with a family that beleived in spanking and yet also I never once saw the parents angry or raise thier voice. They corrected wrong behavior with a firm verbal correction and a swat or two....the kids are great, well behaved, respectful and almost never in trouble

[Debtfree]

I have two children (now teenagers) and I believe in spanking as discipline as long as its effective. My oldest didn't need spankings - taking things away form her worked better. My youngest needed a firmer means of guidance. It was never abusive and was only used when we needed to make a strong statement.

I was never spanked growing up and looking back I should have been a few times - it would have stopped some of my mouthiness!

In Proverbs it tells us that we are to discipline our children: spanking etc.

I see to many parents trying to be their child's friend and not their parent.

Dr. Spock is an idiot.

We need to follow the Bibles Rx for discipline. Spanking is endorsed by God. Yes, we must not abuse them and take out our anger on them...God would never support that. We must be a parent first and then their friend.

They will respect us for giving them boundaries and caring about what they are doing.

When I was growing up...I didn't need to be spanked a lot because I had enough respect for my parents that many times all they had to do was look at me a certain way and I knew I had over stepped my boundaries. I was raised from the age of 11 as a believer, and I also wanted to please God by being obeident to them.

Debtfree:amen:

[hotaru]

I don't agree with physical punishment of any kind. I was abused as a child, and the thought of physically punishing a child in any way makes me sick to my stomach. It's just not right.

[Pogue]

I think hitting your children is morally wrong- the fact that they are your own children makes it no more acceptable than if you were hitting someone else's.

[Godisgr8r]

If done correctly, it's discipline. If not, abuse.

[Christian_Babe234]

I believe that spanking a child when that child has done something wrong is a punishment.
Spanking a child for no reason is the wrong thing to do.
It is pretty much abuse when you spank a child for no reason. Discapline I understand. I went to a lady's house and her children are so out of controle.
I told my mom when we got home that if those were my kids they would have gotten their butts whooped.

[Tigress_86]

What do you think of spanking?
I think spanking is a completely unnecessary form of discipline; one that originates from the idea that violence or physical pain is the only [effective] method of discipline, if it can even be called discipline.

Have you or were you spanked as a child?
Yes.

Do you or do you intend to spank your children?
No.

Do some kids need a smack?
I don’t think some children need a smack as much as they need a loving, compassionate, reasonable adult to help guide them.

Do some adults need a smack?
I don’t think some adults need a smack as much as they need to be introduced to reason.

Some countries still have corporal punishment for adults. What are your thoughts?
I think that killing people to show people that killing people is wrong is both sad and laughable. I do not support capital punishment.

[BigFatGoof]

Spanking is great, especially when your wife does it to you with a big hair brush...

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[firestar]

I don't agree with it, it can easily lead into abuse

[mark53]

In Proverbs it tells us that we are to discipline our children: spanking etc.

I see to many parents trying to be their child's friend and not their parent.

Dr. Spock is an idiot.

We need to follow the Bibles Rx for discipline. Spanking is endorsed by God. Yes, we must not abuse them and take out our anger on them...God would never support that. We must be a parent first and then their friend.

They will respect us for giving them boundaries and caring about what they are doing.

When I was growing up...I didn't need to be spanked a lot because I had enough respect for my parents that many times all they had to do was look at me a certain way and I knew I had over stepped my boundaries. I was raised from the age of 11 as a believer, and I also wanted to please God by being obeident to them.

Debtfree:amen:

If we use most of our Bible translations well God approves of 'spanking' ( he also agrees that naughty children should be put to death as well - look that one up!) But the Hebrew word has a number of meanings, see above replies on a number of ocassions!

[anusha]

Yes i believ in spanking, spare the rod spiol the child

[k]

Yes i believ in spanking, spare the rod spiol the child

Aside from how many ways it could be translated, let's look to see how often it is used in what context in Scripture. It appears that phrase is widely misused.



"SYMBOLIZING DIRECT HERITAGE FROM GOD (offshoot)
Psalm 74:2: Remember thy congregation, which thou hast purchased of old; the rod of thine inheritance, which thou hast redeemed; this mount Zion, wherein thou hast dwelt Jeremiah 10:16: The portion of Jacob is not like them: for he is the former of all things; and Israel is the rod of his inheritance: The LORD of hosts is his name. Jeremiah 51:19: The portion of Jacob is not like them; for he is the former of all things: and Israel is the rod of his inheritance: the LORD of hosts is his name.

SYMBOLIZING THE AUTHORITY OF THE WICKED
Psalm 125:3: For the rod of the wicked shall not rest upon the lot of the righteous; lest the righteous put forth their hands unto iniquity. Proverbs 22:8: He that soweth iniquity shall reap vanity: and the rod of his anger shall fail.

A ROD TO BE USED ON A FOOL (Fool meaning stupid or silly, literally meaning fat...has a connotation of cocky)

Proverbs 10:13: In the lips of him that hath understanding wisdom is found: but a rod is for the back of him that is void of understanding. Proverbs 26:3: A whip for the horse, a bridle for the ass, and a rod for the fool's back.

SYMBOLIZING MAN'S AUTHORITY
II Samuel 7:14: I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men: Ezekiel 19:11: And she had strong rods for the sceptres of them that bare rule, and her stature was exalted among the thick branches, and she appeared in her height with the multitude of her branches. Ezekiel 19:14: And fire is gone out of a rod of her branches, which hath devoured her fruit, so that she hath no strong rod to be a sceptre to rule. This is a lamentation, and shall be for a lamentation.

SYMBOLIZING GOD'S AUTHORITY
Job 9:34: Let him take his rod away from me, and let not his fear terrify me: Job 21:9: Their houses are safe from fear, neither is the rod of God upon them. Psalm 89:32: Then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes. Isaiah 10:5: O Assyrian, the rod of mine anger, and the staff in their hand is mine indignation Isaiah 10:15: Shall the axe boast itself against him that heweth therewith? or shall the saw magnify itself against him that shaketh it? as if the rod should shake itself against them that lift it up, or as if the staff should lift up itself, as if it were no wood. Isaiah 11:4: But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked. Lamentations 3:1: I am the man that hath seen affliction by the rod of his wrath. Micah 7:14: Feed thy people with thy rod, the flock of thine heritage, which dwell solitarily in the wood, in the midst of Carmel: let them feed in Bashan and Gilead, as in the days of old. Ezekiel 20:37: And I will cause you to pass under the rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the covenant: Ezekiel 21:10: It is sharpened to make a sore slaughter; it is furbished that it may glitter: should we then make mirth? it contemneth the rod of my son, as every tree. Ezekiel 21:13: Because it is a trial, and what if the sword contemn even the rod? it shall be no more, saith the Lord GOD.

SYMBOLIZING THE AUTHORITY OF A NATION
Isaiah 9:4: For thou hast broken the yoke of his burden, and the staff of his shoulder, the rod of his oppressor, as in the day of Midian. Isaiah 14:29: Rejoice not thou, whole Palestina, because the rod of him that smote thee is broken: for out of the serpent's root shall come forth a cockatrice, and his fruit shall be a fiery flying serpent. Isaiah 30:31: For through the voice of the LORD shall the Assyrian be beaten down, which smote with a rod. Micah 5:1: Now gather thyself in troops, O daughter of troops: he hath laid siege against us: they shall smite the judge of Israel with a rod upon the cheek.

Thus all 36 places where this word is used "rod" in the KJV has been recorded in conjunction with the full counsel of God.

There are only a few places that "shebet" is possibly referring to a literal rod in connection with hitting someone.

First let us look at Exodus 21:20:

Exodus 21:20: And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished.

This Scripture in Exodus says that if this rod were used on a maid or servant and killed them that it was punishable. So, one can see that it had to be a heavy duty instrument capable of killing someone which would be consistent with the idea of a staff or club. If it is ok to spank a child using this instrument, then it is not mentioned here and if it were, then the child could die by its use.

Next, one should examine the meaning of "the stripes of the children of men" in II Samuel 7:14:

II Samuel 7:14: I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men:

Here is a lengthy quote from Matthew Henry's Commentary on this particular verse:

I will be his father, and he shall be my son. We need no more to make us and ours happy than to have God to be a Father to us and them; and all those to whom God is a Father he by his grace makes his sons, by giving them the disposition of children. If he be a careful, tender, bountiful Father to us, we must be obedient, tractable, dutiful children to him. The promise here speaks as unto sons. [1.] That his Father would correct him when there was occasion; for what son is he whom the Father chasteneth not? Afflictions are an article of the covenant, and are not only consistent with, but flow from, God's fatherly love. "If he commit iniquity, as it proved he did (1 Ki. 11:1), I will chasten him to bring him to repentance, but it shall be with the rod of men, such a rod as men may wieldÂ-I will not plead against him with the great power of God,'' Job 23:6. Or rather such a rod as men may bear Â-"I will consider his frame, and correct him with all possible tenderness and compassion when there is need, and no more than there is need of; it shall be with the stripes, the touches (so the word is) of the children of men; not a stroke, or wound, but a gentle touch.'' [2.] That yet he would not disinherit him (v. 15): My mercy (and that is the inheritance of sons) shall not depart from him. The revolt of the ten tribes from the house of David was their correction for iniquity, but the constant adherence of the other two to that family, which was a competent support of the royal dignity, perpetuated the mercy of God to the seed of David, according to this promise; though that family was cut short, yet it was not cut off, as the house of Saul was. Never any other family swayed the sceptre of Judah than that of David. This is that covenant of royalty celebrated (Ps. 89:3, etc.) as typical of the covenant of redemption and grace. 2. Others of them relate to Christ, who is often called David and the Son of David, that Son of David to whom these promises pointed and in whom they had their full accomplishment.

When one observes the use of the rod on fools, this would be adults who are "fools" because they are grown and still have no self-control. It would be comparable to a criminal being beaten. This is not speaking of a young child. There are examples of criminals being beaten in Scripture. There are NO examples of children being beaten with any rod.
In most other instances the word "rod" is used to symbolize God's authority or the authority of a nation."
http://joanneaz_2.tripod.com/positiv...enter/id4.html (http://joanneaz_2.tripod.com/positivedisciplineresourcecenter/id4.html)

This is one of the more interesting and convincing points:

"Many Christians have taken FIVE verses and hung a whole child rearing philosophy on them! Parents are told to use this as a primary form of punishment (what these experts refer to as discipline). Some use the word "punishment" and the term "discipline" interchangeably when they mean two entirely different things. These people are basing their theology on nothing more than the traditions of men!"

[anusha]

Aside from how many ways it could be translated, let's look to see how often it is used in what context in Scripture. It appears that phrase is widely misused.




Sorry i didn't go to read all you said [ but i will later] but practically if you do not decipline your child while young you can not desipline later. There's a saying in my place . its about the tree[ but in real it means for children] " if it doesnt bend while young, it won't while grown''.

[k]

Sorry i didn't go to read all you said [ but i will later] but practically if you do not decipline your child while young you can not desipline later. There's a saying in my place . its about the tree[ but in real it means for children] " if it doesnt bend while young, it won't while grown''.

Tha's cool, I'm sure it will be read in the appropriate time. :cool:

True, no discipline is a very bad thing and this is exactly what the phrase "spare the rod" means. However, we are moving between two extremes. One is spanking while the other is no discipline, and there is an important in-between.

Spanking, IMAO, is a euphemism for hitting. Hitting is violence and violence is not Christ's instruction for us.

[jerek]

I think it is disipline but it should only be a last resort. I see too many parents use it as their only form of disipline. That is abuse. I hate having to do it. As a father of 2 beautiful girls it breaks my heart. But there is a point where it's the best way to inforce something.

[Pariah83]

This is a VERY hot toppic to me right now. Any time a person causes another person physical pain to "help them" seems very dangerous. I'm not willing to say its abuse every time. I was spanked as a child and i'm not going to say my parents were abusing me. I do not want to spank my children. My wife is uncomfortable with spanking and hitting. I would opt for showing non-violent punishment. There are lots of way to make even very young children understand wrong behavior that doesn't involve a hit. Besides, if they grow up with violance they may be more likely to be violent with others. You as the parent get you whay because if they don't do what you say, they'll be hurt. What's to prevent them from taking that idea to school, friends or their marriages? If they can or their big enough, they can make others do what they want. It's a scary idea.

[diana_ch]

Proverbs 13:24 (http://www.biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?passage=PROV+13:24&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on&showxref=on)
He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is careful to discipline him.


That's what I stick to with my son

[k]

That's what I stick to with my son

What about the info in post 795?

[day2day]

Proverbs 13:24 (http://www.biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?passage=PROV+13:24&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on&showxref=on)
He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is careful to discipline him.

'nuff said If it aint broke don't fix it.;)

[k]

If it aint broke don't fix it.;)

What about the info in post 795? That seems to clearly show it is a broken interpretation of the piece of Proverbs, does it not? And if it doesn't, then why?

[diana_ch]

What about the info in post 795?

Isn't it quite amazing that he fails to mention Proverbs 13:24????

I am an extremelly peacefull person and I don't agree with parents bashing their children until their dead, I like to call that physical abuse...
Now, a spank... My son is a very well manered and respectful 7 year old, it is on a very, very, very rare occasion where I do need to resort to a spank, but I only do this once he has been given fair warning and still continues to disobey me.
I honestly believe that when you have tried several methods, and you have found what best works with your child (each child is an individual and is different to the other) then you should abide by that.
I had tried all different forms of discipline and spanking is my last resort and I do not get a kick or any form of enjoyment from it, but, when it comes to the point of your child in any form challenging your God given authority as a parent (because God Himself has entrusted these amazing children into our care) then I see myself in the position of having to enforce discipline. All my son requires when he gets to that point is one spank on the bottom or hand and he immediately responds and changes his inappropriate and unacceptable behaviour.
I believe that when God is disciplining us, we also go through pain and discomfort. If someone was going to tell me that when God has disciplined them, moulded and refined their character, that they had actually enjoyed and felt comfortable, I would have the audacity to say that they have not been disciplined in any way, shape or form, they are plain and simple lying.
That is my stand, and if you have children of your own, and you have carried out your parenthood all the way from their infant stage to their adulthood and beyond to their own decendants, and you can say that all your children have a fruitful, prosperous and ongoing healthy relationship with our Father, then I take my hat off to you had congratulate you. Well done. :thumbsup:
If not, a whole lot of "information" that someone has pulled out of commentaries and not out of own fulfilled experience... well... I wish them all the best.:pray:

[k]

who fails to mention Pr. 13:24?

[ShanKaz]

Yes...I do.

[jbran555]

it depends on the sitaution, mainly yes.

[diana_ch]

who fails to mention Pr. 13:24?

Really sorry to say this, but I can't find anywhere in your post where you have mentioned this scripture...

[meowmie]

I believe LACK OF spanking is a large part of our problem with children today.

God gave kids padded behinds for just that purpose. If done in love, there is nothing wrong with it at all.

Of course, there is always a chance for abuse. But these people would find another way to be abusive even if they did not spank their kids. They always do.

Some kids need a bit of fear of spanking to keep them toeing the line.

[k]

Really sorry to say this, but I can't find anywhere in your post where you have mentioned this scripture...

Pr 23:13 Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die.
Pr 23:14 Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.


Those say the same thing as 13:24

It's also here...

Pr 13:24 He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes.
http://www.parentingdecisions.com/sufferthelittlechildren7.htm

[k]

I believe LACK OF spanking is a large part of our problem with children today.

God gave kids padded behinds for just that purpose. If done in love, there is nothing wrong with it at all.

Of course, there is always a chance for abuse. But these people would find another way to be abusive even if they did not spank their kids. They always do.

Some kids need a bit of fear of spanking to keep them toeing the line.

As hard as I try, I cannot reconcile the concept of "hitting in Love."

Physical violence, on any level, does not fit the definition of Love that God supplies for us in Cor.

[Thankful75]

I feel too many people are afraid to discipline their child in a physical manner. Ive seen so many kids get away with everything because their parents feel physical discipline of any kind was abuse. There are times that warrant such a discipline but we as parents need to be careful to not lash out due to anger thus the spanking is to ease our wrath.

My children need very few spankings and when the recieve them, they know they are coming and why. Its usually for Multiple repeats of willful disobedience. *willful* being the operative word here.

Tiff

That is the way it is with us too in our family.

[Stan53]

Who let this genie out of the bottle?

[handmaiden97]

Wow, I have skimmed much of the posts in this discussion. This is definatly a controversial subject. I have made some observations.

1. This is an emotional subject stirring up strong feelings and emotions on both sides
2. The people who disagree with spanking repeatedly accuse the people who beleive in it in seeming to be self righteous
3. The people who beleive in spanking, accuse thosse who dont of being just as intolerant
4. More older girls still call their fathers "daddy" then Guys (I think that is cool)

I have seen both sides of the issue, and the extremes/abuses of it.
when I was a kid I was hit often, spanked, beat, yelled at cussed. I often did not know why one day my bad action would go unnoticed and the next evoke great violence. In turn I was abusive, mentally, physically, emotionally and verbally to my brothers and other little kids in my life. I swore I would never have kids cause I was sure I would hurt them.

however that being said I have become a christian forgiven my folks and seen many christian families and how they discipline their kids. I have know parents who never spank only take away privledges and truth be told, their kids are brats! I know another mother who spares not the rod, unfortunaly like my mom she disciplined only when she has had it and her kids can be pushing all the right buttons, till all of the sudden moms had enough and she lays into the poor kid. However the family I most respect, they spank thier kids (1-3 swats) they never raise their voice and never are angry. they tell the kid to do something if they dont obey the first time they tell the kid they are going to get a spanking as the kid to come over lay across their lap and they apply the rod (it is a litteral rod the handle of a wooden spoon, a pencil, something firm enough to cause a sting!) before spanking the shild they explain why and afterwards they explain why. They always express their love for the kid and then they give the kid oppertunity to do the right thing...ask the kid to again do whatever they were supposeed to do before the spanking. And affirm the child for doign right. Now I have known this family for 7 years, I lived with them for a time, they are consitant!!!! their kids are well behaved, fun loving, kids, they are by no means afraid of their parents nor are they violent. In fact the oldest two are of the age they are supposeed to be rebellios teens by the worlds standards. They are not, they are not perfect either, but they have a deep respect fr their parents, a desire to please God and a heart to quickly obey.

I can not tell you the many times I have wished I was raised as they were. many of my struggles with God would be alleviated. to have a knowledge that God is a loving and gently yet firm father, that will discipline disobedience. I think my responses to God, to authority ingeneral would be greatly improved if I had been lovingly and consistantly disciplined by means of a spanking as a child.

I am a strong supprter in that form of spanking, never in anger, always in a way the child knows why he is being spanked. no it is not the only means of discipline, as a child get older you should not have to spank them, at all, but I beleive if you use spanking consitantly when your child is young, you will not have the problems many face with their kids when they are older

[Babiie_deE]

No

[Gukkor]

My kid's going to have a martial artist for a father. Sure I'll use corporal punishment, but only when it's warranted by the situation. Words solve some problems, force solves others. And once he's of a certain age, I probably won't stop him if he wants to fight back either. It'll always be to teach him something, though, just as learning martial arts serves a deeper purpose than fighting. I will not use force for any sort of sadistic enjoyment, I will not use force to instill fear of in him, and I will not use force when it wouldn't be conducive to him learning from his mistakes.

[ChavaK]

If used only for severe disciplinary action, and lightly applied, I think it serves a useful purpose...

[Kims]

I believe in spanking for discipline, the key here is not to spank in anger.

[Kolya]

I think spanking should only be a last resort after many warnings.

I also grew up in the 50's, and I can recall getting only about 6 spanlings my whole life.:eek:

My kids are grown now too, but I can recall only giving my son a spanking once and my daughter never!

[OnlyThruHim617]

I think that if you can't control a child ( as much as they need to be controlled) without hitting, than you have a problem. I think people try to over-control children anyway. I know that you have to guide them but somethings children get in trouble for, like things that just irritate the parents, should be dealt with the parent learning some tolerance.

[pokeyliz14]

Spanking: I believe that spanking to a certain degree and age is fine and considered discipline. For example: a few swats on the behind at a younger age.. throughout elementary is fine. But spanking much after the elementary school age may not be as effective and the spankings may need to be "more intense" in order to "effectivly discipline" the child.

When the spankings cross a very thin line it can turn into abuse. Mainly when the spankings leave the bottom area and cause marks etc..

Finally, I believe that spankings should not be used in any case, but if they are going to be used there is a very thin line between it being discipline and abuse.

[...butterfly...]

Proverbs 13:24 says it all.

[YellowSapphire]

Spanking is discipline when used a) when other methods have failed b) when a young child is in immediate bodily danger and incapable of understanding reason yet c) when not done in anger.

[AvgJoe]

Discipline, when used properly.

[Gothlady]

I say spanking is for parents who are too lazy to say You should not do that because.... And have a conversation with their kid about why and answer questions.

[Katydid]

I say spanking is for parents who are too lazy to say You should not do that because.... And have a conversation with their kid about why and answer questions.



I say that I'd like to see you have a productive conversation with a 2 year old. Oh and thanks for calling the majority of parents "lazy".

[sweetlambofgod]

you shouldnt be spanking children under 3 anyways.....

[Faithfullytrue]

I don't beleieve in spanking, however I do believe in discipline. Children need to know that there are consequences in life for doing wrong, however there is a complete difference in discipline and abuse.

[Katydid]

you shouldnt be spanking children under 3 anyways.....




I hate generalizations like that. Let me explain.

Every child is different and matures at a different rate. My son's first act of blatant defiance wasn't until he was almost 3. My daughter's was at 18 months. Believe it or not, she looked right at me after I told her not to touch something, screamed and threw it at me. So say what you will, some children need it earlier than others. Besides, I start as soon as they know what the word NO means. That means they know enough to understand they are defying me.

[sweetlambofgod]

there are other ways to discipline beside hitting....

[Gukkor]

I say spanking is for parents who are too lazy to say You should not do that because.... And have a conversation with their kid about why and answer questions.

Why not hit the kid and then sit him down and explain to him in detail why he just got hit? It certainly seems to me that I'd be more open to discussion of my own wrongdoing if I'd already been punished for it.

[Katydid]

there are other ways to discipline beside hitting....



Yes there are. And noone that I have ever met who spanks uses ONLY spanking. We use a variety of discipline tools, spanking just happens to be ONE of those tools.

[sweetlambofgod]

Thats great if that works for you but I would never hit my child as a form of discipline.

[ChrisCountryGirl]

I voted abuse

I was a kid once and was spanked occasionally by my mom & I can only remember my dad hit me vividly only once. I don't agree with physical punishment since I choose to lead a non-violent life. I felt like the spankings I got as a child caused me more emotional damage than to "teach me a lesson"

[CavFan]

I don't see anything wrong with spanking as long as it's to discipline and not to express anger.

[GolfingMom]

Proverbs 13:24 (http://www.biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?passage=PROV+13:24&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on&showxref=on)
He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is careful to discipline him.

'nuff said

:amen:

[GolfingMom]

I say spanking is for parents who are too lazy to say You should not do that because.... And have a conversation with their kid about why and answer questions.

But there are consequences to their actions. Most parents I know follow up spanking with a discussion, crying, prayer and hugs...

[sweetlambofgod]

spanking teaches them if they do something wrong they get hit, if a friend does something wrong I should hit them. Mommy hits me I cna hit Bobby.

[Gukkor]

spanking teaches them if they do something wrong they get hit, if a friend does something wrong I should hit them. Mommy hits me I cna hit Bobby.

Not if you sit them down afterwards and explain to them what they did wrong. You'd be correct if all a parent did was spank the child and let him go.

[sweetlambofgod]

ya but even if u tell them what they did wrong, they will think if a friend does something wrong I should hit them. Mommy hits me I cna hit Bobby.

[Gukkor]

ya but even if u tell them what they did wrong, they will think if a friend does something wrong I should hit them. Mommy hits me I cna hit Bobby.

Sorry, I used inaccurate wording in my last post. Beyond explaining to the child why he was punished, one should also explain why it is the parent's job to punish and not the child's. Children are simple, but they're not simpletons. If one explains such things to them patiently and lovingly, they will understand.

[sweetlambofgod]

but thats not always the case

[Gukkor]

but thats not always the case

True.

[cygnusx1]

yes

[LuvAslan]

I grew up with spanking, as did my Dad, who did the spanking. I realize he was easier on me and my sisters than his mom was on him. He always explained afterwards why he spanked us and that he loved us. That is far from abuse.
however, it can be abuse if the parent channels his/her anger and frustration to the kids when they didn't do anything worth punishment.
Thus, I side with disipline.

[BrandonGray]

Im not sure, because it depends on what it was for and how serious it was.

[shazabella]

I am 100% against spanking , i was abused in the name of discipline by my father.

- Shaz

[chadders]

Any form of corporate punishment is abuse. I know I would never want it done for me, and I definately wouldn't do it to others. There are other ways to discipline a person that is more effective.

[DietCherryCola]

I believe in spanking

[sweetlambofgod]

I dont see why anyone would wnat to hit their child?

[Gukkor]

I dont see why anyone would want to hit their child?

If a parent actually desires to cause physical harm to their child, that is abuse. However, corporeal disciplinary action has nothing to do with any sort of sadistic desire on the parent's part.

[bubblegumgirl2002]

Spanking is a disciplin. I have been soanked before. I know I am not abused cause my mom and dad love me lots.

[If Not For Grace]

Reason defies a 2 year old

[godisgr8]

I personally would never spank my children.

[SecretSanta]

hylo

[If Not For Grace]

I personally would never spank my children

The US stats indicate that if you do not, you may very likely be standing in line at a Jail to visit them. If parents do not train children to understand there are consequences for actions some police officer usually ends up doing the job. See not all children respond appropriately to please and thank you--we have institutions full of them.

[sweetlambofgod]

i dont agree, there are MUCH better ways to discipline

[ChristIsTheOne]

I think it is discipline.

[jul7246]

My parents spanked me. For a good reason!
So I believe it is discipline. Only I am against mothers doing this! A mother should be a symbol of kindness and love, while a father should be the strong ruler of the household. At least that's how I see it :)
God bless you!
Julie
PS: Though,yeah, I don't think spanking is ALWAYS a good choice :) Parents should be wise and first explain what should and shouldn't be done =)

[DUSTINtheCHRISTIAN]

I think of spanking as a form of discipline.

[firestar]

I don't believe it's always abusive, but it's not a form of discipline I'd use either.

[cygnusx1]

yes .................. as long as it isn't me getting spanked :D

[Chazper]

Spank with Love :D

Proverbs 22:15
15Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him.

Proverbs 23:13
Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die.

Proverbs 29:15
The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left to himself bringeth his mother to shame.

[Mattacious]

Yes this is a must! Correcting your kids is not bad at all.

It depends how you are correcting them though. A little smack is ok or a little wack with a wooden spoon, but hitting or anything overboard like that is by no means correction and says more about the parent than it does about the child.

[Chazper]

Yes this is a must! Correcting your kids is not bad at all.

It depends how you are correcting them though. A little smack is ok or a little wack with a wooden spoon, but hitting or anything overboard like that is by no means correction and says more about the parent than it does about the child.

Hello Backslidden,

How about 911? I heard that kids in the US are taught to call 911 when their parents spank them... is that true?

[plum]

Spank with Love :D

Proverbs 22:15
15Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him.

Proverbs 23:13
Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die.

Proverbs 29:15
The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left to himself bringeth his mother to shame.
good verses of course.

i think the motivation and heart of the parent is the important thing... what is the goal? are they angry when they discipline? do they give it consistently and without overkill or pride?

[giddyjenn]

I think it can be a good form of discipline, but I believe it shouldn't be done in anger. I don't even think about touching my kids out of anger.

[barbaraclarke]

it depends son how hard you are spanking your child

[cac]

I used to get spanked as a child but it very rarely did anygood. I was one of the unruly ones always being suspended from school and getting into trouble no matter what punishment I got. Am i proud of myself for it, absolutely not as i have grown up now. This goes to show though that on the rare occasion even spanking does not work. You see I grew up but it wasn't from any spanking i got, it was just from setteling down and ageing more.

I think if somebody is going to spank there children they should send the child to there room until mom or dad has the chance to cool off and then administer proper punishment. Spanking to me should also be a last resort, only being done when all other forms of punishment fail.

[onelamb2]

I voted not sure because I think most people can't really figure out the difference between corporal punishment and spanking and discipline. Many people make no distinction between spanking within reason and corporal punishment. Corporal punishment sounds like abuse to me but many people speak of it lightly.

I spanked my children when they were young. It told them when they shouldn't be doing what they were. But they don't touch their children now and their children seem to be spoiled. So who knows? It is a matter of preference and circumstances.

[If Not For Grace]

I used to get spanked as a child but it very rarely did anygood. I was one of the unruly Am i proud of myself for it, absolutely not


Oh, but see what it did do was teach you that your parents had boundaries (who knows what you may have done had they done nothing). It also taught you there were consequences for actions. I was somewhat like you, at times spanking did not change my behavior, but it did let me know my parents did not approve of it. My Parents did more than spank, they took away reward, talked, cried, begged and pleaded and sometimes just threw up their hands--all of which LATER ON, revealed their love for me.

[rita727]

What do you think of spanking? And no, I don't mean the 'in the bedroom' kind. Have you or were you spanked as a child? Do you or do you intend to spank your children? Do some kids need a smack? Do some adults need a smack? Some countries still have corporal punishment for adults. What are your thoughts?

I think everyone needs a smack :D now and then. I believe in spanking--within moderation.

However, there's a fine line between discipline and abuse. I think you should spank them hard enough so that they get the point: don't do it again. But NOT hard enough to that it leaves marks on their bodies. << Then it's not out of love, but something else.

[littlecoda]

I was and I do

[drifter5]

I feel too many people are afraid to discipline their child in a physical manner. Ive seen so many kids get away with everything because their parents feel physical discipline of any kind was abuse. There are times that warrant such a discipline but we as parents need to be careful to not lash out due to anger thus the spanking is to ease our wrath.

My children need very few spankings and when the recieve them, they know they are coming and why. Its usually for Multiple repeats of willful disobedience. *willful* being the operative word here.

Tiff
one could be concerned to use physical discipline on their children at all if they have seen it used in the wrong/ harmful way as a child, though. It is never ok to discipline in temper.

[xladyfayre]

some parents are afraid of being wrongfully turned in for spanking their children. my sister and i often got the wooden spoon and the belt....
yeah... we were bad when we both were bad together...lol. i remember my sister breaking many wooden spoons. I am one to witness that spanking does not work on every child. my sister broke all the spoons as a kid..... it never seemed to give her the picture other than she saw my parents as the enemy.
i myself will probably not spank my children. Instead i will try other
tactics such as:

*if you get suspended from school you will do yardwork all the school day- yes, that would mean getting up at 7 like for school.

*taking away priviledges like tv, stereo, computer...ect

*holding allowance until the next week

*no food, no treats was always another rule in my house

*taking away the cell phone

* taking away video games...

*No friends allowed over

.... theres lots of other means of punishment, but punishing a kid that doesnt care would be hard. i'm not totally against spanking, but i've seen it not work before- so i guess its different for every kid. i was the kid who went to her room and cried because spanking HURT... even when done "not so hard" cos i never took any type of hurt well. - i still dont.

[sweetlambofgod]

no food? You can't deprive kids from food.

[drifter5]

some parents are afraid of being wrongfully turned in for spanking their children. my sister and i often got the wooden spoon and the belt....
yeah... we were bad when we both were bad together...lol. i remember my sister breaking many wooden spoons. I am one to witness that spanking does not work on every child. my sister broke all the spoons as a kid..... it never seemed to give her the picture other than she saw my parents as the enemy.
i myself will probably not spank my children. Instead i will try other
tactics such as:

*if you get suspended from school you will do yardwork all the school day- yes, that would mean getting up at 7 like for school.

*taking away priviledges like tv, stereo, computer...ect

*holding allowance until the next week

*no food, no treats was always another rule in my house

*taking away the cell phone

* taking away video games...

*No friends allowed over

.... theres lots of other means of punishment, but punishing a kid that doesnt care would be hard. i'm not totally against spanking, but i've seen it not work before- so i guess its different for every kid. i was the kid who went to her room and cried because spanking HURT... even when done "not so hard" cos i never took any type of hurt well. - i still dont.
xladyfare- your post concerns me - did your parents really break wooden spoons spanking your sister ? I guess you did not mean this literally !

[Gukkor]

no food? You can't deprive kids from food.

You've never heard of sending a kid to bed without his dinner? It features in more nursery rhymes, fables, and fairy tales than I can remember.

[xladyfayre]

if the kid doesnt eat- the kid doesnt get treats
and no, my parents did not break them- my sister TOOK them and BROKE THEM
you've never had your parents say, "you dont eat you dont get treats"?

[sweetlambofgod]

You've never heard of sending a kid to bed without his dinner? It features in more nursery rhymes, fables, and fairy tales than I can remember.
ya i have but thats abuse

[sweetlambofgod]

if the kid doesnt eat- the kid doesnt get treats
and no, my parents did not break them- my sister TOOK them and BROKE THEM
you've never had your parents say, "you dont eat you dont get treats"?
ya that makes more sense

[drifter5]

How could your sister break wooden spoons ?? Did she have super human strength ?? It does not make sense to me.

[drifter5]

I do not believe that teenagers should ever be spanked, as this will lead to resentment.

[drifter5]

Discipline should never be used as an excuse to harm a child. When disciplining we should not use it as a way to release frustration, but instead it should always be used when in control of our emotions, infrequently, and in the best interests of your child. Along side firmness should always be love.

[Breezy3]

I believe in appropriate spanking done out of love not from a place of frustration, anger, or resentment. At the same time I am very aware that often the best way to discipline involves taking away those things they enjoy the most... cuz it doesn't take long before it becomes effective when used consistantly. For my oldest grandsons it is video games, etc... and when their parents say they will be taken away, follow through, stick with it no matter how much they cry or beg..... results happen.

[Lilium]

I do not believe in smacking children.

[cygnusx1]

yes , a smack is a good thing (not to be confused with a beating).

[FluffyBadger]

Proves nothing. Maybe that you lost your temper is all.

[Gukkor]

Proves nothing. Maybe that you lost your temper is all.

Yeah, unless you didn't, in fact, lose your temper.

In any case, one thing that concerns me about the "take stuff they like away" type of punishment is that it may teach them an improper mindset regarding what's right and wrong, namely that it is not a matter of right and wrong at all, but merely getting and/or keeping things they like. Of course, the same problem is faced to an extent with corporal punishment (i.e. teaching them to do the right thing in order to avoid pain, rather than for more proper reasons), but when utilized correctly, corporal punishment such as spanking serves to get the child's attention, putting them into a state of mind in which they can be taught why what they have done is wrong. Perhaps depriving them of possessions or privileges can be made to have the same effect, but it seems to me that it would be more likely to simply motivate them to put on a pretty face until they've gotten what they want back.

[noholdsbarred]

Children should be spanked (disciplined).

Ty for the thread.

[noholdsbarred]

yes , a smack is a good thing (not to be confused with a beating).

oh my lol! that's an interesting siggy (paper bag head lol on fire!). :)


:swoon:

[jada]

Spanking and other forms of corporal punishment can be used to good effect, if there is clear communication with the child as to what will illicit a spanking, and that the spanking is not "beating" or uncontrolled hitting to releive anger...

My mother used to smack herself in the leg to feel how hard she might be hitting us... if it hurt her, she took time to calm down before delivering our spanking.

We knew we would get one swat for not listening the first time, and two swats the second, three swats the third... if we did not behave after that, then she would make us also go to our rooms and take away priviledges.

It worked OK when we were young, when swatting was used to help us understand that if we children hit each other , then the offender would earn a hit... This plays out in the real world too. If I hit someone, then there are serious consequences, including potentially getting my butt kicked.
But spanking does not work well for when we were over 10years old. Reasoning worked better...

That's my two cents.

[Menuet]

Yes it's discipline

[MaidforHim]

The question was too vague and so were the answers, for me to vote on them.

For me it all depends. I think a parent and possibly a grand parent if given permission may spank a child as a form of punishment.

I do not believe anyone outside the parents or a family member/care giver who's trusted and has specifically been given permission has the right to distribute this form of punishment.

That said what you consider spanking has a lot to do with weather it is abusive or not. I believe a swat or two on the backside is appropriate. To me, anything beyond that would seem excessive.

[MaidforHim]

Good common sense solutions. I agree.

Spanking and other forms of corporal punishment can be used to good effect, if there is clear communication with the child as to what will illicit a spanking, and that the spanking is not "beating" or uncontrolled hitting to releive anger...

My mother used to smack herself in the leg to feel how hard she might be hitting us... if it hurt her, she took time to calm down before delivering our spanking.

We knew we would get one swat for not listening the first time, and two swats the second, three swats the third... if we did not behave after that, then she would make us also go to our rooms and take away priviledges.

It worked OK when we were young, when swatting was used to help us understand that if we children hit each other , then the offender would earn a hit... This plays out in the real world too. If I hit someone, then there are serious consequences, including potentially getting my butt kicked.
But spanking does not work well for when we were over 10years old. Reasoning worked better...

That's my two cents.

[11thDimension]

A spank isn't necessarily abusive but it's still wrong. You can discipline a child without even slapping their wrist. As far as I'm concerned any parent that spanks a child for discipline is just lazy.

[k]

Must say it is rather disconcerting that on a Christian site nearly 75% claim "discipline" while scripture does not support such a view.

[mohawk]

If giving your child a simple smack on the backside to get their attention is done privately, so as not to embarass the child, I think it can be a deterant to future episodes. There should NEVER be any reason to give more than one. I also think that once the child can understand language and can talk, those times are over. I would think that spanking a school age child is more abuse than guidance.

[Kathryn13]

Yes, only for the very young though. Once they get to school, there are other more effective ways to dicipline.

[drifter5]

i know some parents who said that smacking was the ONLY way to punish your child. I think that it is important to find alternatives.

[jenneefar]

In my personal opinion, I do not believe in spanking. I was spanked as a child and it made me fear my parents more than respect them and their rules. I know there are better ways to handle children and physical punishment, to me, is not one of them.

[sweetlambofgod]

In my personal opinion, I do not believe in spanking. I was spanked as a child and it made me fear my parents more than respect them and their rules. I know there are better ways to handle children and physical punishment, to me, is not one of them.
cute avatar

[Followers4christ]

Discipline.God Bless


Proverbs 13:24 "He who spares the rod hates his son,but he who loves him is careful to discipline him."

Proverbs 22:15"Folly is bound up in the heart of a child,but the rod of discipline will drive it far from him."

Proverbs 29:17"Discipline your son, and he will give you peace;he will bring delight to your soul."

[luv4HIM]

spanking needs to be used for major infractions and NEVER in anger. make sure you are sane ,reasonable and rational before you ever raise your hand to your child. when the punishment is done be sure to hug and comfort your child(after a short amount of time) and let them know that even though the behavior was not acceptable, you still love them!!!!!

[jsimms615]

I do believe in some cases a spanking is the best option with kids, but only in extreme cases or when other things have been tried first.
I don't believe it is a good idea for adults. But, I have heard that some adults actually like it.

[Gaia]

I think when you have shows like nanny 911 teaching you how to do things you don't have a reason to hit you kid. The only thing that hitting causes is haterd and resentment in the kid. it doesn't solve anything in fact it make it worse because the one person the kid had in the world to keep it from harm just hurt it so you loss thier trust.

[PixieSunbelle]

i think spankings make children fear their parents more than respect them.... i dont think it is effective.

[sweetlambofgod]

it teaches kids its ok to hit

[drifter5]

I think that smacking should always be done when a parent is calm , and in a kind ,yet firm way. Discipline should always be used in love, and with the child's best interests in mind. I do not think that smacking should be used very often , as it will lose its effectiveness then. " Time - out" is a good alternative.

[PixieSunbelle]

I think that smacking should always be done when a parent is calm , and in a kind ,yet firm way. Discipline should always be used in love, and with the child's best interests in mind. I do not think that smacking should be used very often , as it will lose its effectiveness then. " Time - out" is a good alternative.

hmmm...yeah. i do not like hitting kids- but i suppose once in a while it might get the point across when they've done something really bad.

[sweetlambofgod]

I think that smacking should always be done when a parent is calm , and in a kind ,yet firm way. Discipline should always be used in love, and with the child's best interests in mind. I do not think that smacking should be used very often , as it will lose its effectiveness then. " Time - out" is a good alternative.
I prefer to do Time In, I dont like time out

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

Depends entirely upon how it is administered.

A properly administered spanking in private, combined with rational discussion of the situation (before or after) and reassurance that the parent's love has not changed, can be a useful method of discipline for some.

A spanking out of anger, or combined with humiliation or ridicule (or exposure to peers that may ridicule), or in conjunction with silent-treatment and emotional "freezing out" of a child so that the child feels that love itself has been withdrawn, can be devastatingly abusive.

Are we spanking to teach them, or to satisfy ourselves?

It's all in HOW it's done.

[foztee]

Of course.

Not 'spanking' as much.. but discipline most def.

[drifter5]

Of course.

Not 'spanking' as much.. but discipline most def.
Yes , i agree, The Bible teaches that children NEED discipline. God always knows what is best for us. Children feel secure when they are disciplined in love.

[gurl4jesus0612]

No i think that it hurts the child. and that it is not teaching them anything.... it is just making them hurt there kids and make them think you don't love them

[OOArisma]

It totally depends on the child, the situation, and the age. For example, a 2 year old should not be spanked. They really need to understand why they're in trouble, so you have to be at their level and talk to them in a serious tone, but be gentle. But say there's an 8 year old or 9 year old that's had good parenting and should know the difference, they would be the right age for spanking. Still, you don't beat them. Just enough for it to sting and stick. The age group for spanking kids, that have had good parenting, would probably be 7-12.

[Shadowcat]

The only thing (asides from the butt) that hurts in the dignity. If a child is asked to do something and they don't do as they're told then they should be spanked.

[Nautica]

Not for all kids,certainly not disabled and not rough spanking.A swat maybe.

[drifter5]

The only thing (asides from the butt) that hurts in the dignity. If a child is asked to do something and they don't do as they're told then they should be spanked.
There is a danger with spanking that it can be used as a way of releasing frustration, and it can so easily get out of hand.

[Gukkor]

There is a danger with spanking that it can be used as a way of releasing frustration, and it can so easily get out of hand.

Indeed, but if a parent were to abuse their child in such a manner under the guise of "discipline," they'd have much more serious issues to contend with than whether spanking itself is wrong. How to possibly look at themselves in the mirror, for example.

[drifter5]

Indeed, but if a parent were to abuse their child in such a manner under the guise of "discipline," they'd have much more serious issues to contend with than whether spanking itself is wrong. How to possibly look at themselves in the mirror, for example.
When a person grows up in an abusive home, then it is much more difficult for that person to not go down the same road. It seems natural to him/her. Then the person MUST make a CHOICE not to copy what they have seen/grown up with. Also, people do not always set out to harm their children. They may have anger management problems for example. If a person lacks self- control, or has anger problems, then it is better for that person to choose not to spank at all .

[sweetlambofgod]

i personally its better for no one to spank, would you wanna be spanked when you did something wrong?

[VT_Boy]

There's a difference between discipline and abuse. Spanking is ok as long as it's done right.

[ImAChildofGod]

I think spanking is a good disciplinary tool as long as it is effective and their are guidelines. We spank our children as a means of discipline for serious behaviour only so they know it is serious if they get spankd, and their are rules for how it is carried out.

Our kids are six and eight, so when they are in trouble we sit down and talk about what they did, why it was wrong, and what they should have done instead. Then if a spanking is their punishment, we carry it out then - no more than three spank