Do you believe in spanking?

[HappyMomof4]

I have had children to care for, and no, I NEVER spanked them.


What I am saying is the verse NEVER says "BEAT" him. Just curious, are you a Fundamentalist?


Nonetheless, there has never been a child in the world bad enough to be hit, and that is just my opinion.

I would never spank someone else's children, either. That would be way out of line.
Asking, "are you a fundamentalist?" is kind of rude.
You sound pretty firm about you're opinions. One thing I have learned as a parent is that I have to be willing to change. Parenting is a learning experience for the parent and the child. There have been many times I've had to change in order to be effective.

[Zemyna]

I don't think everytime I got a good smack on the butt as a child for doing something totally out of line it was abuse. Sometimes, it was honestly the only way I would listen to my parents. I think only a good swat on the butt with only the hand and nothing else done only once and leaves no mark is perfectly fine discipline for extremely disruptive behavior. Anything more for anything less needs to seriously be checked at the door.

[mrsir]

Discipline the bible says to Discipline your child when he does wrong.
my precher said, Discipline with a pattle not your hand for if you Discipline with your hand your child will be afraid of it but if you Discipline with a pattle the child will be afraid of that and not you.

[Fineous_Reese]

I apologize if my statement was received in a mean way. The opinion (which can almost always be said is "slander") was based on the fact you support spanking, which is hitting, and Dr. Phil opposes it.

does Dr. Phil oppose high fives? that's hitting. how about when football players smack each other on the butt? that's hitting too. i reckon it's safer to stick with the holy Word of God than possibly err following Dr. Phil when he says something different.


My saying the Bush administration is an anti-Christ Cult is not slander because I am able to successfully defend the charge. Slander is when one makes a charge that the person is unable to defend.

:doh: pm me with your support please, thanks :)

Yes, it is referring to your pic. Not only do you say he is a baby killer, but the way the mock ad is presented, you are saying he is saying we should kill babies. This is slanderous because you clearly do not understand his position on abortion.

so when Kerry fully supports all levels of abortion which according to him is killing a baby, as he's stated he believes life begins at conception, he's NOT saying we should kill babies? i not entirely certain Kerry understands his position on abortion!

I can use your same line of reasoning to defend why I said what I said in regards to your Dr. Phil comment. (Trying not to repeat it since the post was deleted; maybe someone reported it?)

I sincerely apologize for my rather heated statements. Please forgive me.:crossrc: They are not meant to be mean or derogatory, and I am still learning how to communicate what I see as truth in a way that does not negate that truth. Sometimes people worry so much about being PC they convolute the message they are trying to convey.

Peace

i used to say 'peace' all the time too until i read the scriptures again and found things like:

Jeremiah 8:11

and

Isaiah 57:21

peace is good, and peace we will have, but no true peace will be here on earth before the second coming except in the hearts of those who know Jesus.

but anyway, back to the topic, i believe in spanking if done in a Godly manner for God rebukes those He loves. now, if you think you can get the same effect with just words that God gets feel free to not spank your kids, otherwise i'm sticking with 'spare the rod, spoil the child' even though it's "just" in the old testament.

-Fin

[k]

I would never spank someone else's children, either. That would be way out of line.
Asking, "are you a fundamentalist?" is kind of rude.
You sound pretty firm about you're opinions. One thing I have learned as a parent is that I have to be willing to change. Parenting is a learning experience for the parent and the child. There have been many times I've had to change in order to be effective.
How is asking someone if they are a Fundamentalist rude? It simply helps in understanding where the person is coming from. This is no different from asking someone if they are Catholic or Protestant.

Yes, I am firm in the opinions presented. However, they are there after much prayer, discussion, and thought. This does not mean my views won't change; it simply means they do not sway with the winds of social acceptibility. I have learned much from Katy.

Peace

[k]

does Dr. Phil oppose high fives? that's hitting. how about when football players smack each other on the butt? that's hitting too. i reckon it's safer to stick with the holy Word of God than possibly err following Dr. Phil when he says something different.
I sincerely hope your above analogies are strictly tongue in cheek because they don't seem to contribute to the discussion, and they fail as analogies. Why? In both instances the people are happy w/ each other, and there is absolutely no need for discipline of any sort.

My only leader is Christ. I simply agree w/ some of Dr. Phil's philosophies.

The "Word of God" is not the Bible, but rather the Holy Spirit. Read John 1:1-3 or 4 and that will help in understanding why I say that.

pm me with your support please, thanks :)
I will absolutely NOT pm you with the evidence. The evidence is all factual, and most of it is U.S. government documents. If I am unable to post the truth in an open manner on this website, then please let me know now. We may start a new thread because I don't think this thread would be appropriate for an all out discussion.

so when Kerry fully supports all levels of abortion which according to him is killing a baby, as he's stated he believes life begins at conception, he's NOT saying we should kill babies? i not entirely certain Kerry understands his position on abortion!
Cerain people understand that making abortion illegal would be detrimental to our society. This does not mean they actually agree with abortion. Drugs are illegal, does that stop anything? No, it makes things worse. All one has to do is look at the years of Prohibition in this country. It's ironic, most of the same people who want to see abortion made illegal are the same people who do not wish to adequately fund social and educational programs.

peace is good, and peace we will have, but no true peace will be here on earth before the second coming except in the hearts of those who know Jesus.
Who knows what is in a person's heart, God or people?

Peace

[twosteppin]

I will absolutely NOT pm you with the evidence. The evidence is all factual, and most of it is U.S. government documents. If I am unable to post the truth in an open manner on this website, then please let me know now. We may start a new thread because I don't think this thread would be appropriate for an all out discussion.

The reason he asked you to send a PM, and the reason I asked to is so that none of us get in trouble with the mods.
Some of my posts have already been deleted. The mods make sure threads stay on topic. We wish to respect that


Cerain people understand that making abortion illegal would be detrimental to our society. This does not mean they actually agree with abortion. Drugs are illegal, does that stop anything? No, it makes things worse. All one has to do is look at the years of Prohibition in this country. It's ironic, most of the same people who want to see abortion made illegal are the same people who do not wish to adequately fund social and educational programs.

oh my goodness. Well, look at murder, it happens a lot. Is that because it is illegal to murder?
So, are you saying that abortion should be legal, so that things do not become a mess? look around, things are a mess.
This is not a matter of drink, this is a matter of LIFE.

[k]

*Katydid brings in the firehose to hose you two off.;)

Not to destroy your enthusiasm at tearing each other apart, but to get back on topic.....





I asked this question for 2 reasons,

1. when first asked, mere curiosity

2 when I felt you were hiding something, I wanted to know what


Now I know. And, no, I am above using that in a discussion.




First, NO, I am not a fundamentalist. I am messianic.

OK let's break this down:

the word for Beat in Hebrew is naka, it means

to be struck, to be destroyed, to kill, slaughter, destroy, defeat, to be beat, be struck , be wounded, be killed, struck.

Now we know that because the verse specifically states "he will not die", that we are not talking about the ones involving death, therefore, it can only mean one of the following:
to be struck
to be defeated
to be beat
to be wounded

Those are your choices.



Very well, you are correct. And you know what? It works. My child has not hit anyone since, (OK so he hit his older brother once, but his brother's reaction was enough to stop that from happening again as well), wow, real consequences, what a thought.:)



Yes, we prayed and we were led by the Holy Spirit to definately follow this line of discipline. We were led to the pages in the OT that speak about discipline. We were led to the verses in the NT on G-d's discipline. And yes, I can say in the name of Yeshua that we were led to use this form of discipline. Is that what you are looking for? Not an explanation, but a statement?



You feel decieved because I don't air out, without proper reasons, my stepsons past for all the world to see. He is getting to an age where I really shouldn't be doing it at all. I did not feel that his past was significantly relevant until I got all emotional. We have gotten him through all of that, yes, but it took alot of work. I was not using that to say that he was bad enough to be hit, I hope that isn't how you took it. I was saying that the emotional abuse he endured led to things far worse than spanking.


Most of us know from personal experience. Most people who spank, have been spanked, and we know the end result. And we know how it felt at the time.


You know, I am actually enjoying our conversation. Thank you too.
Katy, thank you much. Your saying that you were led by the Holy Spirit is more of an explanation than a statement. Things are not as black and white as we would like them to be, and our discussion is a great example, at least I think so.

Although we disagree, I must trust in your relationship with God, and therefore understand we do not have to have the exact same interpretation of scripture in order to be lovers of Christ.

An example is that a friend of mine (ordained minister) was led to marry a Christian and a Jew. Everyone in the church was up in arms and throwing scripture at him like like they were trying out for the Yankees. He remained with his conviction, married them, and six months later the Jew accepted Christ as his personal saviour. Only God knew that was going to happen, just as only God knows your stepson. Please keep seeking Christ, it encourages us all.

That said, I would like to share some info with you concerning the translation of "rod" according to Strong. (This is definitely not continuing our debate, but rather looking at how the interpretation of one word may differ, which is why we always need the Word [Holy Spirit] to guide us.)

Here are some other translations for 'rod', or 'shebet', and they seem to make sense.

שֶׁבֶת shebet "seat" the use of this word in Am 6:3 (http://www.bible.gen.nz/amos/txt6.htm#997539) is difficult, the LXX (http://www.bible.gen.nz/amos/glossary/lxx.htm#1002932) has σαββάτων "sabbath" (which preserves the Hebrew שׁבת by reading different vowels) however this can hardly be correct. In the absence of a better suggestion the traditional "seat" (from ישׁב "sit") = "throne" = "reign" is the best we can do

שֵׁבֶט (http://www.bible.gen.nz/amos/sounds/shebet.ra)shebeT (http://www.bible.gen.nz/amos/sounds/shebet.ra) "rod, scepter, clan" in Amos at 1:5 (http://www.bible.gen.nz/amos/txt1_2.htm#996873), 8 (http://www.bible.gen.nz/amos/txt1_2.htm#996886) as scepter, a mark of the ruler..

The Hebrew word "shebet" (here rendered "rod") is often translated "scepter" when the thought of a reigning king is in the context. Actually the context of Ezekiel 20:37 presents God as reigning over the Jewish people during their regathering (vs. 34).

Pr 23:13 Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die.
Pr 23:14 Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.
----------------------------------
In the preceding verses, we see that he shall not die with this rod. Yet in Exodus, we saw that a man COULD cause someone to die with a literal shebet. If Scripture were talking about a literal rod here, we would be finding a contradiction because it says he SHALL NOT die. You cannot kill someone with your authority. You can be striking (beating) them with your authority by using your authority to discipline (teach, disciple, educate, instruct) and guide them. I hold to the figurative interpretation of this verse.

Thanks again for everything, and thanks for your patience as well.:)

Peace

[k]

The reason he asked you to send a PM, and the reason I asked to is so that none of us get in trouble with the mods.
Some of my posts have already been deleted. The mods make sure threads stay on topic. We wish to respect that




oh my goodness. Well, look at murder, it happens a lot. Is that because it is illegal to murder?
So, are you saying that abortion should be legal, so that things do not become a mess? look around, things are a mess.
This is not a matter of drink, this is a matter of LIFE.
Then let's start a new thread. That way the truth may be posted openly, and we will avoid mod police.

Yes, things are a mess, have been for a very long time. Making abortion illegal would make "things" much much worse. You are right, it is a matter of LIFE. Would you rather the women be in back alleys, or someones house where two lives are lost instead of one? Do you actually think making abortion illegal would change people's behaviour? Sure, a small percentage would do things differently, but not overall, which is why I used the Prohibition/drug analogy.

You know, if more Christians were doing their job there would be less women in a position to want an abortion in the first place. Where was Jesus' focus? The law or the people?

Peace

[Fineous_Reese]

My only leader is Christ. I simply agree w/ some of Dr. Phil's philosophies.

The "Word of God" is not the Bible, but rather the Holy Spirit. Read John 1:1-3 or 4 and that will help in understanding why I say that.

actually, the "Word of God" is Jesus

I will absolutely NOT pm you with the evidence. The evidence is all factual, and most of it is U.S. government documents. If I am unable to post the truth in an open manner on this website, then please let me know now. We may start a new thread because I don't think this thread would be appropriate for an all out discussion.

you've already been told by others why i wanted it PM'd. going on about "If I am unable to post the truth in an open manner on this website" while truer than you think is totally not what i was getting at ;) if you don't wish to share it via pm then at least pm me with the thread's URL when you start it.

Cerain people understand that making abortion illegal would be detrimental to our society. This does not mean they actually agree with abortion. Drugs are illegal, does that stop anything? No, it makes things worse. All one has to do is look at the years of Prohibition in this country. It's ironic, most of the same people who want to see abortion made illegal are the same people who do not wish to adequately fund social and educational programs.

brother, that's some sketchy logic you're using. as you posed in a later post, "Where was Jesus' focus? The law or the people?" i can see where your confusion is coming from. Jesus was the writer of the Law and the creator of the people. His focus was therefore on both. when the people showed we were unable to follow the Law He provided us Grace however this doesn't remove the Law. abortion on demand lowers the sanctity of life by proclaiming that life is worth no more than a few moments choice and a trip to the abortion clinic. you want to know why things like Columbine happen? continue teaching kids that they are just evolutionary accidents, that their mothers could've aborted them because they weren't human, that there is no real truth but only what you decide for yourself to be true (this includes morals) and we're going to get more and more situations of violence. violence begets violence, no? if you want to use THAT in your anti-spanking tirade then have at it but you can't at the same time say abortion should be legal. you'll let a mother kill her child but she can't spank it???

Who knows what is in a person's heart, God or people?

Peace

God knows the heart, people see the fruit.

[wackyjo]

I think it mention in the bible....it cant harm kids anyway

[rahul_sharma]

definately abuse

[apadilla]

i believe that spanking is a way of discipline.
yes, i was spanked several times when i was a bad kid.

[k]

actually, the "Word of God" is Jesus
This type of splitting hairs does not seem to help much. The Holy Spirit is God, God is Jesus, Jesus is the Holy Spirit, etc.

you've already been told by others why i wanted it PM'd. going on about "If I am unable to post the truth in an open manner on this website" while truer than you think is totally not what i was getting at ;) if you don't wish to share it via pm then at least pm me with the thread's URL when you start it.
When I get the chance to start the new thread I will. Any ideas where it should be started and what to title it? I will present facts, and we go from there. No, I have not seen F. 9/11, nor am I a Kerry fan. I think choosing between the two is like asking me if I would rather be shot or stabbed.

brother, that's some sketchy logic you're using. as you posed in a later post, "Where was Jesus' focus? The law or the people?" i can see where your confusion is coming from. Jesus was the writer of the Law and the creator of the people. His focus was therefore on both. when the people showed we were unable to follow the Law He provided us Grace however this doesn't remove the Law. abortion on demand lowers the sanctity of life by proclaiming that life is worth no more than a few moments choice and a trip to the abortion clinic. you want to know why things like Columbine happen? continue teaching kids that they are just evolutionary accidents, that their mothers could've aborted them because they weren't human, that there is no real truth but only what you decide for yourself to be true (this includes morals) and we're going to get more and more situations of violence. violence begets violence, no? if you want to use THAT in your anti-spanking tirade then have at it but you can't at the same time say abortion should be legal. you'll let a mother kill her child but she can't spank it???
To tell me I am using "sketchy logic" inherently places yourself above me, and the last time I checked the only person with that ability is God. The last line is a cheap shot. What kind of fruit is that? I abhor murder on any level, be it abortion, or dropping bombs on kids in another country. If I am in contact w/ a woman who is contemplating abortion I would pray, listen for the leading of the Holy Spirit and do everything possible to persuade her from committing the act. It is about LIFE, but many people do not understand that, and if we try to forcibly extrapolate our morality onto others, what good could come of it?

Can you show me one line from the N.T. where Jesus FORCED his message onto others? Actually, what I see is the exact opposite. We are to empty ourselves and be filled w/ the Holy Spirit, and we are unable to do this as long as our self righteous indignations exist.


It makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside when someone is able to peer into my thoughts and "see where my confusion is coming from.":bow: Sarcastic for reason of stating you cannot say for sure if I am confused, or if I simply see something differently than you. Of course one could argue Jesus' focus was on both, but I asked of the two, where was his higher priority? They were not 50/50 by any stretch.

If you wish to live under a theocracy then I strongly suggest you stop calling yourself an American, take down any flags you have, and never say the pledge of allegiance for one cannot have two masters. You see, an American respects others' rights, even if we abhor the excercise of those rights. I hate the existence of every gun in the US, and for very good reasons. Yet Christians in the US lay claim to constitutional rights, Serving two (actually three) Masters. Can anyone imagine Jesus holding a gun? It's beyond absurd.

Peace

[Fineous_Reese]

This type of splitting hairs does not seem to help much. The Holy Spirit is God, God is Jesus, Jesus is the Holy Spirit, etc.

glad we agree :)

When I get the chance to start the new thread I will. Any ideas where it should be started and what to title it? I will present facts, and we go from there. No, I have not seen F. 9/11, nor am I a Kerry fan. I think choosing between the two is like asking me if I would rather be shot or stabbed.

looking forward to it, just pm me the link when you find a good spot

To tell me I am using "sketchy logic" inherently places yourself above me, and the last time I checked the only person with that ability is God.

you won't like this either, but you're wrong here. not sure why you're using 'inherently' here but when you know something i don't know you are in a position above me as far as that information is concerned. as your logic was shaky and i'm showing you your error then yes, i'm above you in this instance. i'm sure there are many things you can teach me. part of humility is when you can accept teaching.

The last line is a cheap shot. What kind of fruit is that? I abhor murder on any level, be it abortion, or dropping bombs on kids in another country. If I am in contact w/ a woman who is contemplating abortion I would pray, listen for the leading of the Holy Spirit and do everything possible to persuade her from committing the act. It is about LIFE, but many people do not understand that, and if we try to forcibly extrapolate our morality onto others, what good could come of it?

"forcibly extrapolate"? ya lost me there, i'm guessing you're talking about telling other folks that they're wrong and that they should be doing the right thing instead. What good could come of it? how about the life of a baby that would've been murdered otherwise in the case of abortion? in the case of spanking, just to stay on topic a bit :P the good would be the child is focused on the errors of their ways and may change when words would not have sufficed.

Can you show me one line from the N.T. where Jesus FORCED his message onto others? Actually, what I see is the exact opposite. We are to empty ourselves and be filled w/ the Holy Spirit, and we are unable to do this as long as our self righteous indignations exist.

why just the N.T.? Jesus wrote the O.T. too.

It makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside when someone is able to peer into my thoughts and "see where my confusion is coming from.":bow: Sarcastic for reason of stating you cannot say for sure if I am confused, or if I simply see something differently than you. Of course one could argue Jesus' focus was on both, but I asked of the two, where was his higher priority? They were not 50/50 by any stretch.

first, i refer you back to your line above about cheap shots and looking for fruit. thanks.
second, why do you think they weren't 50/50? we're talking about a God who is both loving and judging. i know what you asked, it's called a false dichotomy.

If you wish to live under a theocracy then I strongly suggest you stop calling yourself an American, take down any flags you have, and never say the pledge of allegiance for one cannot have two masters. You see, an American respects others' rights, even if we abhor the excercise of those rights. I hate the existence of every gun in the US, and for very good reasons. Yet Christians in the US lay claim to constitutional rights, Serving two (actually three) Masters. Can anyone imagine Jesus holding a gun? It's beyond absurd.

are you trying to forcibly extrapolate your morals on me?

psst, i can imagine Jesus holding a sword and it will be doing a lot more than any gun you could ever hold.

-Fin

[k]

you won't like this either, but you're wrong here. not sure why you're using 'inherently' here but when you know something i don't know you are in a position above me as far as that information is concerned. as your logic was shaky and i'm showing you your error then yes, i'm above you in this instance. i'm sure there are many things you can teach me. part of humility is when you can accept teaching.
My point is you believe you know something I do not regarding this particular issue. You have the right to hold that belief, but you did not show me why the logic was 'shaky.' Do that and we will have something to hold on to.

"forcibly extrapolate"? ya lost me there, i'm guessing you're talking about telling other folks that they're wrong and that they should be doing the right thing instead. What good could come of it? how about the life of a baby that would've been murdered otherwise in the case of abortion? in the case of spanking, just to stay on topic a bit :P the good would be the child is focused on the errors of their ways and may change when words would not have sufficed.
That is my whole point...making abortion illegal will not stop it from happening. Instead, we, as Christians, need to focus more on the people, and once we submit to the Holy Spirit, those people will be brought into God's Light and the law would be a moot point because many women would not be in a position to want an abortion in the first place.

Furthermore, how does one support Bush based on his pro-life stance knowing full well Bush also fully supports the development of brand new nuclear weapons? This is a dichotomy, or at the very least hypocritical.


why just the N.T.? Jesus wrote the O.T. too.
It is rude to answer a question with a question. It appears you could not answer in your favor, therefore it was better to avoid answering it at all? Don't know, just guessing.

first, i refer you back to your line above about cheap shots and looking for fruit. thanks.
second, why do you think they weren't 50/50? we're talking about a God who is both loving and judging. i know what you asked, it's called a false dichotomy.
What I said was sarcastic, not cheap, and there is a huge difference; especially when it is explained why the statement was sarcastic to begin with.

"False dichotomy" is a term used by those who are unable/unwilling to seek deeper into an issue, except in rare cases. Simply look at Jesus' ministry. Where was his focus? Healing and teaching the people, or up in the Temple trying to legislate? Of course, his teachings included God's Commandments (and those are not laws by any stretch), but it was after he loved the people.

are you trying to forcibly extrapolate your morals on me?
This question is a poor attempt at avoiding what was stated. There was no morality involved because I was talking about structures of government. Do you see that or should I find a way to rephrase what was stated?

psst, i can imagine Jesus holding a sword and it will be doing a lot more than any gun you could ever hold.
This is an absolutely bizarre statement considering I just stated how much I detest guns. Again, you circumvented the question. This is horrible debating because it appears as though when you are unable to give an answer that does not support your position you simply avoid the question. This is not conversation, but confrontation.

Are you an American or a Christian? You can't be both...choose one master.

Peace

[Fineous_Reese]

It is rude to answer a question with a question. It appears you could not answer in your favor, therefore it was better to avoid answering it at all? Don't know, just guessing.

had to snip the rest, no time to adress it right now. but this... would you also call Jesus rude? and no, i'm not answering a question with a question since you merely placed a question mark at the end of a statement.

[k]

had to snip the rest, no time to adress it right now. but this... would you also call Jesus rude? and no, i'm not answering a question with a question since you merely placed a question mark at the end of a statement.
Jesus ALWAYS answered the questions...and you are not Jesus.:amen:

Unless it is stated, my questions are not rhetorical...but why am I telling you this since you seem to know all that is in my heart and head already? That is said because you stated that I "...merely placed a question mark..." Funny, the same people who wish to teach humility are usually the same ones who could use some more desk time. Sure, my ego flares up, and when it is pointed out I ask for forgiveness, try to learn, and move on. You will always catch me being human, but you will rarely catch me being stupid.

You, once again, avoided the question. Thanks for your time and have a nice day.

Peace

[Droobie]

:topic:

Yo Peoples... back to the topic at hand please. And let's keep things civil.

[k]

:topic:

Yo Peoples... back to the topic at hand please. And let's keep things civil.
Thanks for the heads up.

[Fineous_Reese]

:topic:

Yo Peoples... back to the topic at hand please. And let's keep things civil.

i believe in spanking as long as it's done in a Godly manner, ie not as a first option, not in anger and to a distinct purpose.

thanks everyone, g'night!

[Palatka44]

Spanking is a time honored tradition in my family.

[Soulikz]

yes, the bible says do not be afraid to, and it is alright as long as its used for discipline. its not like i liked it when i was a kid, but now i have matured it is easy to see the work it did

[chutney man]

helps them to learn faster i think

[Volknet]

disipline... :)

[honeybear06]

sure I was disciplined as a child, dad used a belt, mom used a wooden paddle. For everytime mom had to use her paddle your name was put on it... mine is only on there once!! I remember when that stopped working they started making us stand in the corner with our arms up for 1/2 hour or so... unless you got caught with them down, then it was extended. I'm sure I will end up spanking my children when I have them, but there are other tactics that can be tried first, like explaining to them what they did wrong, discussing ways to fix the problem or meet in the middle. I grew up with spankings and my dad has only hit me once, he tried to appogize but his girlfriend told him I didn't deserve and appology... everything we do as people, friends, parents.. everything impacts who we are and what we become in the future... please keep that in mind when your children misbehave. sometimes it's the parents that need a good smack!

[keirasmommy]

I was spanked only a few times as a child. I don't think I needed it. Although maybe my brother should have been spanked a little more. My mom says she regreted spanking us. My dad never spanked me but his threat was enough.

I'm quick tempered and so is my husband so as of right now we have a no spanking policy (besides our daughter's only one year old and way too cute). I know my boundries, I don't think I'm the spanking type. Besides, my parents used other disipline tecniques that I learned and will use with my daugheter. (Time Out, Remedies, Lectures,taking away privileges, etc.) Dr. Phil has a great book out called
Family First. It's really great.

I think that parents know weather they should spank or not. If spanking works with your kids then you won't have to do it very often. If you find yourself administering spanking after spanking then obviously it's not working. Spanking is not, the only way to disipline your children. The way our father in heaven disiplines us is unique to who we are and helps us to become more mature. Thus, the way we disipline our children should be sensitive to their personality, who they are. I think the "rod" referred to in proverbs is a symbol of disipline and not the rule. Hitting your child with a weapon is not only unnessary but it is abusive. If you can't hit your child hard enough with your hand to teach them a lesson, then give up on spanking. Find another lever.

[Mandey]

sure, as a kid you feel as though it's the end of the world, but the fact is that sometimes a scolding doesn't do the trick. come on, sending a kid to their room is like placing a pizza infront of a starving dog and telling them not to eat it. kids now a day have entertainment centers and tons of things to amuse themselves with in their rooms. By a quick punishment, it will help them learn.

[WITNESS8]

Yes, I believe that spanking is necessary. The Bible says, In sparing the rod you spoil the child. Not beating but spanking. Children usually only understand the consequence of not being obedient by a spanking. Today, society has become so easy on children. Children need to know discipline at an early age.

[Libby1]

Well put. I was hit not spanked as a child. Unfortunately, a lot of parents are like mine and seem to confuse the 2 or think they're one in the same. :sigh: To be honest, it never worked on me either. It only made me behave worse and respect them less. The worst part is that they became so reliant on it that they tried to use physical dominance/"discipline" even into my teenage years. :mad: Let's just say I had to "teach" them not to do that. That said, depending on the child's personality, I do think that an occasional spanking when used appropriately and not done in anger is ok. I know the Bible says "spare the rod, spoil the child," but can't revocation of priveleges, extra chores, etc. take the place of the "rod" whenever possible?

I'd most definitely say yes to the last portion of your statement. For many children this works!

[Libby1]

Whhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhew! I JUST read the last say 25 - 30 posts..........:(

Thanks Droobie!:hug:

[ChrisLockhart]

Spanking is a form of punishment.. not THE form.
As a child, I was spanked only a few times.. and that was not for any sort of acts of misbehaviour.. it was for disrespect. Only our behinds were hit and only a few times. Enough to make you walk away holding on to your backside and knowing that you weren't going to do that again.

The only spankings I got were for stubborn disrespectful lack of obedience. In other words, refusing to do what my father said and being rather beligerent (sp?) about it. Most times the punishment should make sense and should fit the crime. Sometimes, you have to knock some sense back into the kid from the back-side.

The problem today is not with spanking or not spanking.. the problem is more with SPANKING or NOT spanking. I don't think the discussion should be either or, but rather when and how much and how.

Parents that beat their children for every misbehaviour don't teach behavior, respect and obedience.. they teach using violence as a way of dealing with the behaviour of others.

[4_Given]

The Bible tells us...
Proverbs 23:13-14 "Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die. Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell."

So yes, I beleive in spanking a child, but I don't beleive in beating a child. I think some parents go a little overboard with their kids.

[k]

The Bible tells us...
Proverbs 23:13-14 "Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die. Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell."

So yes, I beleive in spanking a child, but I don't beleive in beating a child. I think some parents go a little overboard with their kids.
This may seem a little nitpicky, but it's really not. The quoted scripture says "beatest" but then you say no child should be beaten? Is the word "spanking" a contemporary replacement for "beatest?"

This is pointed out because the word for "rod" in Proverbs is seriously challenged as being mis-translated. Shebet is the Hebrew word, and many people argue the way shebet is used in proberbs means "authority," not a literal rod. This seems to make more sense because then it is telling us to teach the child God's Authority. After all, who REALLY has the authority to keep someone out of hell, people or God? If you would like to know more, let me know. If not, thanks for reading.

Peace

[Lutheran444]

It's discipline, assuming someone doesn't overdo it. Assuming it was done for the purpose of discipline and not for someone's sadistic enjoyment, then it is ok. But when that line is crossed, then obviously that's when it's not ok.

[sictransitgloriamundi]

and again proverbs 13:24 for me

[mshupe1959]

I only use it for "capital" punishment...I try other things first

[jewishprincess613]

I believe it is an acceptable form of discipline. Simple as that.

[blue_eyes36]

i belive in spanking , but should not do it whene overly angry, & only if it fits the crime, if the fault is only minor thene i go for standing in the corner, restriction of privelges,or taking a toy ECT...

AMY

[G4M5Y5]

Hmm...I sure do have an opinion on this topic. My belief is that if a spanking is what works for that child then a spanking (not a beating) is what that child needs. If there is something else that works I would definately do that first. My niece will act like a perfect angel anymore because if she acts up she loses television privledges. And that's just one example. Another one of my nieces, it does take a spanking because she doesn't care if you take all her toys away or t.v. priveleges, and she's stand in the corner all day and still learn nothing. (So I don't get a bunch of negative remarks here....No she really hasn't stood in the corner all day...but I know her well enough to know she would and still not learn anything). She's stubborn but alls it takes is a light spankin' and she knows mommy and daddy mean what they say.

Unfortunately in todays times, I can not blame parents for not wanting to spank their kids. Anymore the child abuse places will call a spanking abuse. I'm not putting the child abuse place down because I think they do great things...but it is possible to spank a child and not be abusing them.

[monkeystink]

Spare the rod, spoil the child...

My sons are not spoiled, but they also know that when I have to spank them it is done out of love. I am raising men not boys. They will be productive citizens and hopefully be great vessels to carry the word.

Your brother in Christ,
Eric

[amysmithbsw]

Spanking, to me, is a healthy, normal and natural part of Christian discipline in raising children.

[Dee235]

I believe in spanking, can't say it did me any harm. Of course didn't like it when it was happening. Do believe though that it should not be done in anger and it should be deserved.

[SmEaGoL!]

Ok if it is only mild and on the bottom only.

[LilRitt04]

I think that spanking a child is a lesson. When I was a child my parents would only spank me if I pushed them over the edge. They wouldnt just spank me. But as for when I have children...if they do something that deserves spanking...they will get a spanking. Its definitely a form of discipline!

[jcright]

It depends on the spanking...it could really go either way. I'm not a fan of spanking though anyway.

[Saruman]

Spanking is discipline and as long as it's not abusive, it's fine. I was spanked as a kid. I am happy I was.

[mtucker]

There are a bunch of kids in my community that could use a severe butt whoopin'

[onlybygrace]

I believe that spanking is often the only way for a child to understand that there are often negative consequences to their actions. I was spanked, only in the butt and not often, but enough to get the point across. Discretion has to be used, and not in anger, but a little bit of pain now can spare a lot of pain in the future.

[Telrunya]

It makes sense to me that unspanked children are, on average, more intelligent. Their parents take the pain and efforts to teach and guide them to make right decisions based on reason, instead of conditioning them like animals. Every time they decide to do or not do something, it's an exercise of free will, and not a conditioned response.

Unspanked children also have less contradictions to deal with. I pity those children who are spanked and at the same time taught they must not use violent to solve problems, AND that unconditional acceptance of order and judgment (aka obedience) is a virtue. Basically they are trained to ask no question and just do whatever is decided for them.

I believe in personal responsibility and a certain degree of freedom, I also think the two go hand in hand. That is also what I want to pass onto my children, so I prefer to teach them to use choice and rights wisely, instead of condition them to docilely conform to a set of behaviours dictated by society or the Bible.

regards,
-Cordelia
I have to disagree with you on the point that the bible teaches us to conform without questioning: 1 Thessalonians 5:21 (http://www.biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?passage=1THES+5:21&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on&showxref=on) Test everything. Hold on to the good. If you fail to explain that misconduct brings consequences then you fail to prepare your child for the world. The bible tells us that: Proverbs 13:24 (http://www.biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?passage=PROV+13:24&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on&showxref=on) He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is careful to discipline him. Spanking isn't the end of biblical discipline as it would be with an animal. If you spank a child and fail to explain why they were punished then you failed the child. If you fail to teach your children the differance between right and wrong at all times then you fail your child. I talk with my children when they have done wrong and explain to them why they are being punished. I train my children to think for themselves and be accountable for themselves. I dissagree strongly that just because I spank my children, I am training them no better than I would an animal.

[ascribe2thelord]

I believe in spanking ... but only once the parent is sure he/she's not doing it to retaliate, but rather to discipline. And furthermore ... I was the unwelcome listener to my host-father torturing his son for thirty minutes while I was in Germany on a foreign exchange trip. There is a difference between discipline and child abuse.

[hollymarie1122]

I have two children (now teenagers) and I believe in spanking as discipline as long as its effective. My oldest didn't need spankings - taking things away form her worked better. My youngest needed a firmer means of guidance. It was never abusive and was only used when we needed to make a strong statement.

I was never spanked growing up and looking back I should have been a few times - it would have stopped some of my mouthiness!
I believe that if it is used properly, NOT IN ANGER then it is correct, but each person is different therefore the same punishment may not work for every kid

Holly

[Ellie022]

yes it it is needed. afterall how will the child know right from wrong?

[XxAuroraxX]

true..

[kleptobismol]

i was spanked when i was bad. it helped and shaped me to be a better person. my older bro on the other hand was never spanked cuz my parents were against it at the time and is a total troll with a lack of respect for other ppl. i will spank my kids when they are bad..

[labellady]

Yes. However, as my boys has gotten older they don't need spankings. There are other forms of disipline. Each child is different, so their disipline is different, according to each child.

[Katydid]

i was spanked when i was bad. it helped and shaped me to be a better person. my older bro on the other hand was never spanked cuz my parents were against it at the time and is a total troll with a lack of respect for other ppl. i will spank my kids when they are bad..

I am all for spanking, but I wanted to let you know that my brother is a 30 year old still living at home, and he WAS spanked. We still don't know what went wrong with him.

Yes. However, as my boys has gotten older they don't need spankings. There are other forms of disipline. Each child is different, so their disipline is different, according to each child.

Very good point, as they get older the spankings should decrease, then they should not be used past, well, I would say 9 or 10. But that is a very good point.

[p_kitha]

punishment is less cruel and more effective

[Alencon]

I don't believe in it, never did. I raised three children and neither I nor my wife ever spanked them and guess what, they didn't turn out too bad at all.

#1 - Gymnastics Instructor and student at William Paterson University
#2 - Law Student at Seton Hall University
#3 - Sophomore at Hofstra University

[shasta12c]

i was spanked as a child.. probably not enough ! and I spank my kids as well :)

[xxRachaelxx]

i have never ever been smacked, and i will not smack my children.
my parents and i have a great relationship

[NickyBlade]

I wish there were choices about how often spanking is used. I voted abuse because the way it's worded I take the poll to mean "regularly" and I think that is wrong. My oldest (14) has been smacked on the bottom three or four times in her entire life. My youngest (8) has been only once. They are both awesome kids! Honor roll and do pretty good at staying out of trouble. But, if someone asked me if i spank my kids, I would have to answer "no" because i don't...even though they have been. Hope my post makes sense. :) In my experience, other means of punishment (taking things away) and a long discussion about the offense is a much better way to resolve the issue and my kids and I are closer because of how much we talk.

[LilRitt04]

I think there is a time and a place for it. If you tend to spank them frequently they will get used to it and it will eventually not phase them. My Mom would pick and choose when she spanked us. We knew that when my Mom spanked us we were in for it. So I think you need to pick and choose depending on the extensity of the problem whether or not they are spanked. My children will be spanked, but not on a regular basis...I am not going to abuse my kids!;)

[FreeSpiritFaith]

I think that there are always ways to deal with a child's misbehavior other than a spanking. Spanking reinforces the idea that it is ok to hit if you are really mad, which is wrong. Also, it could lead to the child mistrusting his/her parent, or resenting them.

[Fonzy]

abuse its not ok to spank a child that does not know what he did.

[MetalBlade]

Yes. It kept me inline. Some children need discipline where there is none.

[sweetlambofgod]

Abuse, we learned that in school

[ALASKACHICK10]

I think that if the kid does something that they know they shouldn't and you have told them a 100 times not to do it then yes they should. but I don't like spanking kids, but some of them you have to or they won't listen to a word you say. but I think time out is a better idea.

[lisajean]

Even though it is a very unpleasant experience I totally agree with spanking. I was spanked when I was younger until I was about 10 or 11 and It really kept me in line. When my youngest sister misbehaves or is acting real bratty my Mom will give her a spanking and she will be a completly different person after. Somtimes kids just need a good spanking to keep them in line.

[heavensworthit]

It's all in the spirit through which it is given.....out of hate or anger it is abuse...done in love it is discipline. My parents spanked me even in my early teen years and I am no worse for wear

[draconus71]

spare the rob spoil the child. I believe spanking as a swat on the back side is ok as long as its not over done or abusive:hug:

[TruePraiser]

Yes, spare the rod spoil the child.

[Nobility]

Discipline. With two reasons.

1) Spare the rod spoil the child.
2) as a 6 year old i made a statement "i dont' like smacks but they are good for me"

[//Gracie//]

I don't have any problem with spanking as a means of disciplining a kid. I was spanked as a kid ... as has already been said, I think if you do it with the right heart and not to excess, it can be an effective method of disciplining a child.

[LynnMcG]

Spare the rod, spoil the child

I find that I've only had to swat my little ones on their diapers. I think at that age you're doing it as a means of correcting a potentially dangerous situation or something that's harmful and wrong. By the time my daughter was out of her diaper, I found I never had to spank her. She's 5 and we just never spank her. She's really a pretty good kid. Most times, if she's done something wrong she'll confess before we know about it, we'll discuss it, and then she'll be punished. Punishment for a 5 year old is usually just 5 minutes in her room to collect herself and to make sure she understands what she's done was wrong.

[Spyk]

I do feel that ' Spanking ' is a good thing to discipline children.. Its hard to think that some 'Sick' people take this word and make it soo much more serious than it needs to be. I mean turning it into Abuse ! Its horrible..

[Gennie]

within reason, yes

[Evie]

What do you think of spanking? And no, I don't mean the 'in the bedroom' kind. Have you or were you spanked as a child? Do you or do you intend to spank your children? Do some kids need a smack? Do some adults need a smack? Some countries still have corporal punishment for adults. What are your thoughts?
children today need disciplined, teach them to obey because it's a commandment. We do not spank unless nessecary which is not very often. Parents need to be in control of the their children,as they are gifts from God.

[obediah]

Spanking is good for the proper growth of a child; of course it must be done properly NOT is anger!

[k]

I do feel that ' Spanking ' is a good thing to discipline children.. Its hard to think that some 'Sick' people take this word and make it soo much more serious than it needs to be. I mean turning it into Abuse ! Its horrible..
When I was in the 9th grade I received 180 whacks with wooden boards (that kept breaking, so I had to get a stack of them from the wood shed) for earning a D in english.

I had bruises from the middle of my back to the backs of my knees, that was not a spanking, it was abuse. Maybe it would not have progressed so far if more people realized spanking (violence) is not a problem solver, but a problem starter.

[pro_odeh]

It depends.. spanking can be abused, and then it no longer becomes discipline..

[Euphrosynos]

Add me to the believers in the Bible where sparing the rod is spoiling the child.

[k]

Add me to the believers in the Bible where sparing the rod is spoiling the child.

There is a lot of evidence in scripture to show that "rod" doesn't mean a physical stick. Rod in Proverbs is speaking about the Authority of God meaning we must teach our children about God. The reason is to prevent them from death, and not necessarily a physical death, but a spiritual one because that is what we have when we don't know God. I can clearly remember my life before my relationship with Christ, and although I was walking, talking, and laughing, I was spiritually dead.

[Mykoet]

as a teenager i think spanking is sometimes the only thing to make some kids shut up!:) however, used at every possible infraction is uneccesary and leads into abuse.

[Tavita]

Add me to the believers in the Bible where sparing the rod is spoiling the child.
Me too! IF you are led by the Holy Spirit as a parent then you won't end up in abuse. He will show you how to discipline correctly.

[pro_odeh]

as a teenager i think spanking is sometimes the only thing to make some kids shut up!:) however, used at every possible infraction is uneccesary and leads into abuse.quite right! Spanking, if used, should only be used in 'emergencies'..

[GodFlute2]

I wouldn't say I believe in it, but I don't have a problem with it as discipline.

[HesMyAll]

There is a lot of evidence in scripture to show that "rod" doesn't mean a physical stick. Rod in Proverbs is speaking about the Authority of God meaning we must teach our children about God. The reason is to prevent them from death, and not necessarily a physical death, but a spiritual one because that is what we have when we don't know God. I can clearly remember my life before my relationship with Christ, and although I was walking, talking, and laughing, I was spiritually dead.

Proberbs 23:14 Thou shalt beat him with the rod and deliver his soul from hell. The word rod in that verse is a Hebrew word that means a stick, a physical stick. Corporal punishment is fine as long as it is done in love and doesn't cross the line into being abuse. A godly parent will be careful to not let that happen.

[justanobserver]

voted "discpline". But I agree with some reservations. I do not believe in spanking with total abandon or with any infraction regardless of how minor.

[tinkerbell]

I didn't vote because I don't think spanking (within certain limitations) is abuse. However I don't view it as true discipline either. Of course it's hard to make blanket statements because there are children with discipline and other isues that would fall out of the "norm" that would not be included in this statement; but as a general rule does spanking really teach the child anything? It teaches them - if I do this I'm going to get hurt, or it teaches them to resent the parent, but it doesn't really teach them why what they're doing is bad. I'm a firm believer in natural and logical consequences. I would be more than happy to elaborate on those if anyone has any question.

[beehoney]

I voted discipline, but parents need to be very careful that they do not cross the line of abuse. There are some times when it is called for, especially in children who are of an age where they can understand corrections, but defiantly refuse to, and other methods are not working. Spanking has no place in adult relationships.

[ChrisLockhart]

spank witht thought, not out of anger.

[Woody]

Discipline.....but some people use it as abuse which is very sad. But without some dicipline alot of kids grow up to be rotten people who arnt very nice!

[Lori-lee]

It can be abusive, but i think its perfectly acceptable as a form of discipline.


I think the trick is not to spank when you're angry. The spanking is about the child and 'correcting' their behaviour, not about making yourself feel better by venting.

When we were kids, we only got hit (ok, i mean smacked) if we did something reallllllly bad/dangerous, like the time my sister was, like, 2 years old and got out of the bath sopping wet and tried to plug the vaccuum cleaner into the power point!!! She needed a strong deterrent to not play with power points and thats what she got!! lol.

I spanked my godson when i lived with him coz his Mum said i could and for me to discipline him just like a parent. He wore a nappy so he couldnt feel it anyways. Now he's older and out of nappies, if we go out, i say that if he touches anything on teh shelves i will smack his hand.

It's all well to say that kids need things explaining to them, but sometimes they're too young to understand, or you just cant take a chance that tehy wont understand and they need to see the consequences of their actions. In that sense, i think spanking is ok.

[skipper]

spanking if done correctly and not extensively is a good source of punishment. Most people I know use it in certian cases these people are Dr.'s, social workers, teachers and professional type people. Spanking should never be done out of anger or revenge then it boarders on abuse.

[Daisysqueaks]

I think part of the problem with the decline in our society is the lack of discipline in children. I have spanked my kids but I use it with other forms of discipline as well, such as times outs or groundings. I think the discipline has to fit. Most of the time I just have to warn my kids to behave and they straighten up. Then again the oldest is 11. But when my two yr old started running in the street, talking to him about the dangers of cars didn't work. He would run out there just watch Mommy react. One day he ran out the door and into the street. Thankfully the Ford Exporer that was coming stopped. I scooped up my son and gave him a firm but not forceful double pop on the behind. He didn't run into the street ever again!

[Cooter]

I definately believe in spanking as a dicipline, something I grew up with. Saying "no" 400 times doesn't always work. Nor do "time-outs." If a child is doing something very wrong, he's not just a "free spirit expressing himself" and should be left alone. He's a child that needs to know that he doing something wrong. And if words do not teach him, that's where spanking comes in. That's how a child will learn. Time-tested for thousands of years. Sometimes children need a firm reminder of what is acceptable and what is not. Spankings are going the way of the buffalo, and we're seeing the results today. I definately think spanking can go too far (crossing the line into abuse), but I don't think the line is as thin as people say it is. There's a big difference between a few meaningful spanks, and twenty-three belt-lashes on a naked rear-end.

[HawaiianTropicalDude]

never,no.not for me ,maybe i should have gotten them but my child will never get spanked either.

ya can get alot more out of taking privies away.straightens us right up.

[HawaiianTropicalDude]

didnt vote.no answer fits my opinion-

[shamrocker]

when i was a child, my father always threatened to hit me for doing things that didn't even really matter, and because i was so scared of him hitting me, i would cry, which would inevitably make him spank me. i think if parents take enough time to spend time with their children and teach them right from wrong in a calm way before it gets to the point where their child gets out of control, then spanking wouldn't have to be a part of the parenting issue.

[ladylike]

^

I agree with that.

I think that if my parents actually talked me through my actions I would of understood! I wasn't dumb, I was just scared of my Dad...

The thing is the type of discipline gets passed down from generation to generation so they don't know any different.

Positive re-inforcement works wonders, try that first...

[Katydid]

Positive re-inforcement works wonders, try that first...




This completely depends on the child, and their dependency upon acceptance.

[Chrissy4]

A believe in spanking my children. But I don't believe in beating them.

[J4Jesus]

Yes I believe in it because the Bible teaches it. If you love your children you will discipline them.

[Artificial Intelligence]

Discipline no doubt. Just tread lightly and don't do it is you are angry.

[jesusfreak7707]

spanking is fine when ur young

[cygnusx1]

so long as it isn't me .............. of course :thumbsup:

[firestar]

No I don't

[crusader4peace]

i believe its discipline.

[firestar]

I think spanking is wrong because it teaches that physical force is justified to get others to comply with you.

[QuietTempest]

I don't believe in corporal punishment because it defeats the purpose. You want your kids to respect you, not fear you. You want them to do the right thing simply because it is the right thing and not because of the consequences of doing something wrong.

Maybe that's why there are so many low-lifes in the world? They've been raised to fear (and have contempt for) authority figures. I'd rather my kids grow up being good adults and striving to do what's right, not two-faced people who underhandedly reach their goals through whatever means they think they can get away with.

[ProfessorMom]

I think corporal punishment can too easily turn into abuse.

[seremela06]

I was spanked as a child. I think that it was the best thing that my dad could have done. Now that I'm older, it wouldn't make much difference because I just don't care. Being grounded is the worst thing possible at my age. But when I was younger, I didn't get in trouble a lot because I knew that daddy would be ready when I did...lol! I defititely plan to spank my children. I do have one reservation though. Many people (my father excluded) spank their children out of anger. I personally believe that when your child needs disciplining, you should take time to calm down and think things over. Then you should confront the child, tell them what they did wrong, why it was wrong, and make sure that they know why they are being disciplined. There is a definite linen between spanking and abuse. One thing that my parents never did was hit us. I have never been hit in the face or anywhere other than where I was spanked...painful memories...lol! Seriously though, it was for the best. My mom did try once to spank my brother with a switch because she thought it worked good on TV. That was a long time ago. It didn't work out well...yeah. Anyway, those are my thoughts on the matter.

[rocketboy]

i think its discipline

[Lake]

I don't believe in slapping and hitting,spanking yes.

[sweetlambofgod]

nope and neither will my husband

[1cutemonki]

It's discipline. It's what made me learn when I was a little girl. I don't get spanked anymore and it's been a long time since I don't get punished. I think Im doing things right, see I learned!!

[sweetlambofgod]

yqa but if you do studies and stuff on it you may think differently

[QuietTempest]

I just don't think it's right to strike a child. I also don't agree with parents who choose to "Ferberize" their children. It seems cruel to me. I've never made my daughter cry it out (CIO).

a little off-topic, but.... Dr. Ferber even came forward recently and suggested that parents should experiment with other methods of "training" their child to sleep. For my baby, my partner and I have followed Dr. Sears' method of putting her down for the night with very few problems. For the first 7 or 8 months, she co-slept with us. Now, she sleeps in her crib. I occassionally have trouble convincing her that she really is tired and needs to rest for a while so we can play again later, but aside from that, she's a perfect angel.

My daughter, Brianna, is very well-behaved. She never acts out in public places like grocery stores, restaurants, theaters, etc. even though we see other children doing just that in the check out lines. The only time she's moody is when she's tired or hungry. I've never, ever struck her and I never will. In my opinion, it's abusive and it degrades your child's trust and respect.

[cat has felt the light!]

What do you think of spanking? And no, I don't mean the 'in the bedroom' kind. Have you or were you spanked as a child? Do you or do you intend to spank your children? Do some kids need a smack? Do some adults need a smack? Some countries still have corporal punishment for adults. What are your thoughts?


had to vote not sure am afraid, u c I think it depends how its done, a spanking shouldnt be a spur of the moment wollop which is done out of anger and haste, but should be thought about and controlled if it is to be done at all, sying that the waiting for such pain can be even crueller, especially when it is to be delivered from your parents, the very people in this world who are supposed to love you unconditionally and care for you etc.! not sure therefore what to believe I'd like to say I wouldnt spank any children of mine as punishment, (who sed we cud punish other humans anyway?) but I wud never say never!
C@ xxx

[TheSerenityPrayer]

I think that when spanking is used right it can be used as discipline. Spank the child hard enough for them to know "If I do that again I'll get spanked and I DON'T like it" but not hard enough for it to be considered "parental abuse". There is a difference. If you spank your child enough for different reasons the child will learn. If you abuse the child as in hitting and beating the poor child, then that parent needs to be locked up. There is a difference, maybe its fine line for those who don't see that spanking should be used as a discipline method, or for the parent that thinks he is only disciplining when he/she is really abusing. You just have to know the difference.

[prettyrose436]

no i don't believe in spanking... i was not spanked growing up and i will not spank my children

[GodisGreat79]

I don't have any kids but I beleive if you do it the right way then, it is ok, I got spanked as a kid and I turned out fine.

[active ingredients]

spanking is good, as long as it it hot spanking.

[CJD]

There are times when I do think that a spanking is appropriate, however, I think that it should only be used when other methods of parenting and disclipline fail. In our home the children are talked to about the problem, they have time outs, they get priviledges taken away, they are warned before any physical punishment occurs, and as a last resort they are spanked. I also think that before a child is warned and spanked, that the child needs to understand what he/she has done wrong and that there is an age where it becomes unappropriate and uneffective for spankings to be used for discipline.

I don't think that spankings are always appropriate........but, like everything else, there is a time and place for them.

[Loving Daughter]

I will never spank my kids. I wasn't spank, my parents used other forms of Discipline, and talked with me.

[lollipop686]

Well, it depends what kind of force you use. If you hitt them REALLY hard, especially if its a lil kid, I would consider it abuse, but if you show them you are serious and stern and spank them apropriately according to their age and "level of crime", I think it's just punishment.

[Bob Moore]

I find it interesting that so many people flatly refuse Biblical admonishment and advice while at the same time claiming faith.

How is it that so many people prefer their own wisdom to God's?

Proverbs 10:13 In the lips of him that hath understanding wisdom is found: but a rod is for the back of him that is void of understanding.

Proverbs 13:24 He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes.

Proverbs 22:15 Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him.

Proverbs 23:13 Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die.

Proverbs 29:15 The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left to himself bringeth his mother to shame.

Is there something that is not plain about what the Bible says regarding the discipline of children?

[~ Gig ~]

We don't spank our daughter. I wasn't spank nor was my hubby and the both of us turned out just fine. Actually I use the method my mother used. She sent me to bed after my supper and for me that was worse than a spanking. Because my friends would be out in our yard playing with my sisters, while I'm inside grounded. If I had been spanked it would have been over in a couple of minutes and I would've been out the door.

I had a friend who was spanked and bruised because daddy had used a little to much force :( If you want to spank thats your choice, but please don't do it when your angry.

[lollipop686]

We don't spank our daughter. I wasn't spank nor was my hubby and the both of us turned out just fine. Actually I use the method my mother used. She sent me to bed after my supper and for me that was worse than a spanking. Because my friends would be out in our yard playing with my sisters, while I'm inside grounded. If I had been spanked it would have been over in a couple of minutes and I would've been out the door.

I had a friend who was spanked and today bruised because daddy had used a little to much force :( If you want to spank thats your choice, but please don't do it when your angry.

She had bruises on her butt? Ouch!

[QuietTempest]

I just think there are better ways of disciplining a child than to raise a hand to him or her. Pain and/or humiliation teaches nothing but contempt for the one enforcing this brand of correction, in my opinion.

[sethad]

I think there's better ways to discipline but it also depends on the kid. even if i did spank my kids it would be extremely rare and i doubt that i'd actually do it.

[Selznak]

Yes, spanking is an effective tool of discipline and yes I have spanked my children, but only after exhausting all other options.

[HolyGuardianAngels]

Proverbs 13:24 (http://www.biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?passage=PROV+13:24&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on&showxref=on)
He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is careful to discipline him.

'nuff said


:wave: It's obviously: ABUSE!!!:thumbsup:
Many people quote the above verse Proverbs13:24 ... However, IT IS Old Testament, and that is what people say to me... "It's OT!", When I ask, should we be eating pork... Go figure!! :confused: ~Keep one passage, but, not another!!

And lots of people are on the side of TOUGH love too!!...IMHO: That's not GENUINE LOVE ,which Our Lord requires us to give to EVERYONE!!:groupray:


I've also heard... Spare the ROD, spoil the Child... Well, ..Sacred Scripture also says: Eph 6:4; Colossians 3:21 and Genesis 18:19


And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath; but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.




Fathers, provoke not your children to anger, lest they be discouraged.



We often say: ~See Jesus in others... Would you hit Jesus???...
For, that is what spanking is: HITTING....

~Yes, I got spanked...but, the fact that someone got spanked, doesn't make it right!! :confused: ~Does it??

We've all heard the phrase, he or she: Got a beating!!
~Hitting children has got to stop. There are zillions of ways :thumbsup: to discipline them, to correct them, to teach them...





Now... 'nuff said...ha ha;) ;)


Good Christian Men, Rejoice!!
God Bless
:angel:

[sweetlambofgod]

well said

[sunstruckdream]

We often say: ~See Jesus in others... Would you hit Jesus???...
For, that is what spanking is: HITTING....

~Yes, I got spanked...but, the fact that someone got spanked, doesn't make it right!! :confused: ~Does it??

We've all heard the phrase, he or she: Got a beating!!
~Hitting children has got to stop. There are zillions of ways :thumbsup: to discipline them, to correct them, to teach them...


perfectly put. and not just because i was beaten a lot whenever my father got(although that is a part of it). but really, do i believe a parent should strike a child to get their point across? no, cause the point that comes across from that is that hitting is sometimes called for and acceptable. and, like you said... you wouldn't hit Jesus, and, He said that whatever you did to others you did to Him. think about it...

[mark53]

Spanking! No way!
If it is okay to spank a child for doing something wrong, why not your spouse, friend, boss, teacher, opposition sports player, umpire / referee, etc
If it's okay to get one's way with a child why not these others. Or are kids not human enough yet?
The Bible is often quoted to back up many things, e.g. (seen in other of CF) rape, murder, genocide, etc

[QuietTempest]

There's another thread discussing this here if you'd like more member perspectives.

http://www.christianforums.com/t1725825-spanking-abuse-or-discipline-you-tell-me.html

[lonelyflower]

I'm quite disturbed by the percentage of people who believe it is acceptable to use violence to discipline children.

[lgintrnj]

when its abuse its not a spanking. and always be sure the child understands why.

Lori

[Krystina661]

There are times when I do think that a spanking is appropriate, however, I think that it should only be used when other methods of parenting and disclipline fail. In our home the children are talked to about the problem, they have time outs, they get priviledges taken away, they are warned before any physical punishment occurs, and as a last resort they are spanked. I also think that before a child is warned and spanked, that the child needs to understand what he/she has done wrong and that there is an age where it becomes unappropriate and uneffective for spankings to be used for discipline.



I don't think that spankings are always appropriate........but, like everything else, there is a time and place for them.


I feel the same way.. couldn't agree with you more..

[mark53]

when its abuse its not a spanking. and always be sure the child understands why.

Lori

Why not adults as well, e.g. your elderly parents, bosses, Church leaders etc.
If spanking is correct in "one" situation musn't it be correct in all areas of discipline?

[sunstruckdream]

I'm quite disturbed by the percentage of people who believe it is acceptable to use violence to discipline children.

ditto

[HolyGuardianAngels]

What do you think of spanking? And no, I don't mean the 'in the bedroom' kind. Have you or were you spanked as a child? Do you or do you intend to spank your children? Do some kids need a smack? Do some adults need a smack? Some countries still have corporal punishment for adults. What are your thoughts?

:wave:
Here's a poem I'd like to submit, to support my vote (in addition to my other post)... I copied it form another thread and thought it also fit here.:thumbsup:


If children live with criticism, they learn to condemn.
If children live with hostility, they learn to fight.
If children live with ridicule, they learn to feel shy.
If children live with jealousy, they learn to feel envy.
If children live with shame, they learn to feel guility.
If children live with encouragement, they learn confidence.
If children live with tolerance, they learn patience.
If children live with praise, they learn to appreciate.
If children live with acceptance, they learn to love.
If children live with approval, they learn to like themselves.
If children live with recognition, they learn it is good to have a goal.
If children live with sharing, they learn generosity.
If children live with honesty, they learn truthfulness.
If children live with fairness, they learn justice.
If children live with kindness and consideration, they learn respect.
If children live with security, they learn to have faith in themselves and in those about them.
If children live with acceptance and friendship, they learn to find love in the world.

:groupray:

Author Unknown
Origin Unknown








Good Christian Men, Rejoice!!
God Bless
:angel:

[lonelyflower]

Good Poem.

[QUOTE=HolyGuardianAngels]:wave:
Here's a poem I'd like to submit, to support my vote (in addition to my other post)... I copied it form another thread and thought it also fit here.:thumbsup:


If children live with criticism, they learn to condemn.
If children live with hostility, they learn to fight.
If children live with ridicule, they learn to feel shy.
If children live with jealousy, they learn to feel envy.
If children live with shame, they learn to feel guility.
If children live with encouragement, they learn confidence.
If children live with tolerance, they learn patience.
If children live with praise, they learn to appreciate.
If children live with acceptance, they learn to love.
If children live with approval, they learn to like themselves.
If children live with recognition, they learn it is good to have a goal.
If children live with sharing, they learn generosity.
If children live with honesty, they learn truthfulness.
If children live with fairness, they learn justice.
If children live with kindness and consideration, they learn respect.
If children live with security, they learn to have faith in themselves and in those about them.
If children live with acceptance and friendship, they learn to find love in the world.

[GodsJewel]

I was spanked as a child and plan on spanking my kids when I have them someday. I want spanking to be my last resort of discipline. First, I want to try taking priviledges away or putting them on punishment.

[shamulover]

No way do not spank. Not just because i am younger thank most people here but because physical contact like hitting slapping is like really bad well that is what think
I think it is really bad what good does it do hitting your child???????????

[shamulover]

I think you are right i think it is really bad the number of people who believe in spankingSpanking! No way!
If it is okay to spank a child for doing something wrong, why not your spouse, friend, boss, teacher, opposition sports player, umpire / referee, etc
If it's okay to get one's way with a child why not these others. Or are kids not human enough yet?
The Bible is often quoted to back up many things, e.g. (seen in other of CF) rape, murder, genocide, etc

[ibelieve316]

When my children do something that is harmful to them, I will spank them to teach them that it will be painful if they do that again. A spanking is a lot better than getting hit by a car, or burning themselves on something hot.

[sethad]

When my children do something that is harmful to them, I will spank them to teach them that it will be painful if they do that again. A spanking is a lot better than getting hit by a car, or burning themselves on something hot.

I've already been over this...

spanking teaches a kid that it is ok to hit sometimes.

for burning themselves...when I was little my mom spanked me because I went to go touch the stove. the moment she turned her back, I touched it anyway. I didnt care that she spanked me I wanted to know that that THING was and why the coils turned red/orange sometimes. and I wanted to know what the big fuss over it was.

spanking may work if used the right way for SOME kids but it doesnt work for all, and it definetly never worked for me.

I think that cause and effect discipline is better because then it teaches the child why it is wrong. they break a toy, they cant play with it anymore, and so on. also taking away privileges works. of course that doesnt mean that you explain to them before they actually do anything what the rules are etc...rules are important.

as for getting run over by a car...thats different because you cant let them run out into the street to see what happens. so that might be one time when a quick swat on the butt is ok or either that a very stern talking to and explaining WHY they shouldnt run into the street (I'd prefer the latter).

[KellyLeigh]

there are more effective ways to discipline a child than to hit them.

[sweetlambofgod]

there are more effective ways to discipline a child than to hit them.


so true

[mark53]

When my children do something that is harmful to them, I will spank them to teach them that it will be painful if they do that again. A spanking is a lot better than getting hit by a car, or burning themselves on something hot.
So what about your neighbour, partner, workmate, Church elder / pastor / priest when they do something wrong?

[Stacey]

My old "chuch" didn't believe in striking the child so instead a wooden spoon was used. Let's just say I remember things quite vividly and it was used at a young age... generally I have a pretty bad memory.

[mark53]

When violence is used (whether small or great) it is not about discipline but about control of the other!

Discipline is a self thing and guidance, encouragement and example are the best ways to build this up. :thumbsup:

[HollyHobbie]

I am a firm beleiver in spanking ....but as a last resort ! I believe what the bible says on spanking as well , I often get in trouble with my husband because if my kids are misbehaving I have a tendancy if there not being distructive or disruptive too back off and go in another room and make sure I'm callm enough to punish them ! Its hard but I have been on the end of punishments done in anger and the scars are still there.

Then I will either spank them or put them in time out in their room, depending on the crime !!!

My daughter is the type that needs a swatt or 2 to get the point across and get her attention.

My son thinks your killing him if you put him in his room and make him get in his bed even for 2 minutes (LOL ).

So most of the time thats all we have to do to him.

Spankings didn't always work with me so my parents would try other forms of discipline like cleaning out the overer weeded over grown dog pen outside using a dull shovel a dull thin wisked broom and a bucket ......and a few other punishments that were a bit extreem and now a days would have brought the social services to my parents door if reported.

Many of the punishments they dealt on me I am thankful for though gross and bizzare ect . This hilbillie from the sticks learned a lot from them there are only a few that have left scars that I am still dealing with today.

But inspite of those bizzare unusual punishments I can now say that I am greatful for the lessons learned from them.

Love In Christ
Holly Hobbie
Laura

[mark53]

My question is does where does "spanking" stop? At what age? And to whom bosses / workers, Church leadership / members, etc, etc,
Violence of any sort is evil and needs to be stopped!

[center]

my parents spanked me when i was little, and believe me, i needed it. it teaches you how to act and gives you a punishment. The Bible says spare the rod spoil the child. So if a kid is misbehaving, then spank them

[Chrysalis Kat]

Only if my husband thinks he'll enjoy it

[sethad]

my parents spanked me when i was little, and believe me, i needed it. it teaches you how to act and gives you a punishment. The Bible says spare the rod spoil the child. So if a kid is misbehaving, then spank them

Right...so when the kid goes to school and the school isnt allowed to spank them and then s/he realizes that he wont get spanked there and then manipulates everyone around him/her...

and one time when s/he's innocently playing with friends and one kid doesnt share or is "being bad" your child immediately walks over and spanks the kid and hits them...

or when they dont understand why they're getting spanked and then they get frusterated and mad and scared...and what if they hit back? will you hit them harder? show them who is boss? show them that it is ok to hit people who are smaller then they are?

it will be your fault :)

please read previous posts, rather then me re stating everything I've already said.

[sunstruckdream]

Right...so when the kid goes to school and the school isnt allowed to spank them and then s/he realizes that he wont get spanked there and then manipulates everyone around him/her...

and one time when s/he's innocently playing with friends and one kid doesnt share or is "being bad" your child immediately walks over and spanks the kid and hits them...

or when they dont understand why they're getting spanked and then they get frusterated and mad and scared...and what if they hit back? will you hit them harder? show them who is boss? show them that it is ok to hit people who are smaller then they are?

it will be your fault :)

please read previous posts, rather then me re stating everything I've already said.

well said

[HisJavajunkie]

I agree with spanking that is used at the right time and for the right reasons. I don't think it is supposed to be used for every discipline. But my parents used it on us and I happy for that as well. It helped me to learn quicker on certain issues.

[mark53]

I still can't get an answer to why violence (even though "relatively" small) can change someone's outlook positively?!

I see people saying that it is okay and quotes a couple of bible passages to back this up. They must also approve of slavbery, rape and genocide (which some have done elsewhere!)

Using O.T. passages that have no revelance in the N T and beyond are wrong and dangerous. These people must also APPROVE of killing their child if they don't change. I have heard this quoted a couple of times too!!

[k]

I still can't get an answer to why violence (even though "relatively" small) can change someone's outlook positively?!

I see people saying that it is okay and quotes a couple of bible passages to back this up. They must also approve of slavbery, rape and genocide (which some have done elsewhere!)

Using O.T. passages that have no revelance in the N T and beyond are wrong and dangerous. These people must also APPROVE of killing their child if they don't change. I have heard this quoted a couple of times too!!

There is no biblical support for spanking. The one that is most used speaks of "spare the rod spoil the child." Well, looking at the Hebrew it is clear the "rod" (Shebet) is not speaking of a literal piece of iron. (What else would a "rod" have been made of 4000 years ago?) The "rod" is the Authority of God. IOW, spare the child the Authority of God and spoil that child because she/he will not know respect, love, etc.

For all who use the OT to support spanking for correction, does your Pastor spank laymembers when they disobey? The principle should be applied across the board.

[mark53]

There is no biblical support for spanking. The one that is most used speaks of "spare the rod spoil the child." Well, looking at the Hebrew it is clear the "rod" (Shebet) is not speaking of a literal piece of iron. (What else would a "rod" have been made of 4000 years ago?) The "rod" is the Authority of God. IOW, spare the child the Authority of God and spoil that child because she/he will not know respect, love, etc.

For all who use the OT to support spanking for correction, does your Pastor spank laymembers when they disobey? The principle should be applied across the board.

Exactly! :thumbsup:

[Droobie]

Only if my husband thinks he'll enjoy it
Please people... let's stick to the OP (jokes aside)

[SallyNow]

I'm going to have to vote "Not sure", because there is no "only as a last resort, perhaps less than 10 or 15 times in a lifetime, for those aged 4-8 when in private and done not out of anger but because the kid is continually doing willfully wrong things just to be bratty"

There is no biblical support for spanking. The one that is most used speaks of "spare the rod spoil the child." Well, looking at the Hebrew it is clear the "rod" (Shebet) is not speaking of a literal piece of iron. (What else would a "rod" have been made of 4000 years ago?) The "rod" is the Authority of God. IOW, spare the child the Authority of God and spoil that child because she/he will not know respect, love, etc.

For all who use the OT to support spanking for correction, does your Pastor spank laymembers when they disobey? The principle should be applied across the board.

Hmm, very interesting (and good) answer!

The best parents I have seen have used things like positive reinforcement, proactive parenting, moderate structure, and just general respect for the growth of their child. They rarely, if ever, resorted to spanking. These people have ended up with the most creative, interesting, and wonderful adult children. Did they have to deal with their kids trying out different legal activities, and go through some tough times? Yep. But the open, honest, and respectful relationship between the parents and the child brought everyone through the tough patches unscathed. And, the child usually developed things like healthy respect for boundries, the knowledge to know the difference between good boundaries and ones that are against basic human rights, and a general respect for others. I've seen this way work so many times, with so many people, that I truly believe it is the best way to raise a child.

A good relationship between child and parent, and a loving home that enforces, encourages, and models good behaviour and responsible living is the best home for a child. Spanking should be a rarity, while hugs and family time should be a top priority.

The parents I've known who've spanked their kids the most (such as more than once a week, sometimes more than once a day) have ended up with adults who suffer some major problems, and yet say things like "of course I'll spank my kid, it's the best thing, and I'm grateful I was spanked".

Relying on spanking as a way to raise a child is like relying on antifreeze to run your car.

Then again, if I had a five year old who did something truly dangerious and destructive and knew that what they were doing was destructive, such as pull the dog's tail, or throw the cat down the stairs, and did it anyways, and nothing else had worked, I might resort to a light swat on the behind...which is a lot better than the kid continuing to hurt the animals and ending up with a nice long scratch. If the kid continued, I'd seek professional help, because the would be a high possibility that something more was going on than a bratty kid.

[Lynn73]

Yes, I believe in spanking and so does the Bible.

Pr 22:15 (http://bible1.crosswalk.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?word=pr+22:15&version=kjv&st=1&sd=1&new=1&showtools=1) - Show Context (http://bible1.crosswalk.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?passage=pr+22:15&version=kjv&context=1&showtools=1) Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him.

I haven't read the whole thread so if someone has already mentioned this, my apologies. If other methods work, fine, but there's not a thing wrong with spanking. I thing that's the trouble with a lot of kids today. Their parents refused to spank.

[mark53]

Yes, I believe in spanking and so does the Bible.

Pr 22:15 (http://bible1.crosswalk.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?word=pr+22:15&version=kjv&st=1&sd=1&new=1&showtools=1) - Show Context (http://bible1.crosswalk.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?passage=pr+22:15&version=kjv&context=1&showtools=1) Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him.

I haven't read the whole thread so if someone has already mentioned this, my apologies. If other methods work, fine, but there's not a thing wrong with spanking. I thing that's the trouble with a lot of kids today. Their parents refused to spank.

# 634 gives a good answer on this. There is another one somewhere where it looks at the actual translation of the Proverb. There is some questioning about what it actually means.

[HoshiG]

I believe in spanking as long as it isn't done in anger or frustration. I also think it shouldn't be the main form of discipline for a child... also that we need to use wisdom about what sort of child... some children never need to be spanked as they respond fine to other methods, but, some need it. So, that's my position.

[Kriegermädchen]

Growing up, I was spanked. My parents never spanked me excessively or out of anger, only when I did something I knew was wrong. (I didn't automatically get spanked if I was never warned about that issue beforehand) Being spanked never encouraged me hit other children, and I would not ever lay a finger on kids I was babysitting.

Being around families who don't spank their kids has definitely convinced me that I will spank mine. (when I have some) In my oppinion, it's not child abuse- it's discipline.

[Kriegermädchen]

Right...so when the kid goes to school and the school isnt allowed to spank them and then s/he realizes that he wont get spanked there and then manipulates everyone around him/her...
By the time my sister and I were old enough to go to school/play sports/social gatherings, we were already well trained in showing respect to adults. We knew better than to manipulate people to get what we wanted or to act out just because "mom and pop" weren't there.

Although I support it, spanking is a last resort..... People should be teaching their kids how to behave rather than disciplining them for not behaving.

[KrazyPhish]

Nope

[mark53]

Yes, I believe in spanking and so does the Bible.

Pr 22:15 (http://bible1.crosswalk.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?word=pr+22:15&version=kjv&st=1&sd=1&new=1&showtools=1) - Show Context (http://bible1.crosswalk.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?passage=pr+22:15&version=kjv&context=1&showtools=1) Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him.

I haven't read the whole thread so if someone has already mentioned this, my apologies. If other methods work, fine, but there's not a thing wrong with spanking. I thing that's the trouble with a lot of kids today. Their parents refused to spank.

oops I forgott #664 above!

[GrinningDwarf]

I'll only answer this poll if I can be guaranteed my answer won't be forwarded to the nearest CPS office! ;)

[KingZzub]

Yes.

[deetersdee]

I believe if all else fails spanking is necessary but know the difference between spanking and abuse. God gave us a cusion on our backside for a reason.The bible says not to provoke your children to anger also so I think if discipline in any form is used in a public place it will embarace the child and only cause anger and humiliation. It wont serve it's purpose which is to guide or turn the child from doing what is wrong. If spanking does not get the message across than don't use it.
I have used different methods of discipline with each of my children according to their personality.

I also think that spanking past the age of 12 is useless.

[shinbits]

Hey, whatever a man and a woman want to do---

....is this Marriage forum?

[destinyhope]

i believe that kids should be disciplined