Do you believe in spanking?

[theseed]

What do you think of spanking? And no, I don't mean the 'in the bedroom' kind. Have you or were you spanked as a child? Do you or do you intend to spank your children? Do some kids need a smack? Do some adults need a smack? Some countries still have corporal punishment for adults. What are your thoughts?
Spanking can be abuse or discpline. This poll should have more options.

Here is a article that discusses the "rod" scriptures.

http://joanneaz_2.tripod.com/positivedisciplineresourcecenter/id4.html

[JCis4Me]

Spanking is OK if it not done in anger. My kids get spankings but the spankings are not frequent and they have to understand why it was used as punishment. Fortunately, taking priveledges away seems to work just as well.:)

[violetstar]

I beleive spanking are ok, in severe cases. I spank Debra maybe twice a year she is 8.

[Pacigoth13]

no, i think it is abusive. even if it is not severe or angry enough to be physically abusive, spanking is psychological abusive... it is the kind of thing that scars little children for life.

[lajekahr]

My brother and I were both spanked as children and we both think we deserved it. He tends to think I should spank my children more often...

I keep hoping they will start to grow up a little and need it less or not at all like the older brother in "To Kill a Mocking Bird"

LUke

[Father's Child]

i think it's wronlg My brother and i were over spanked and now we (both my brother and i) both have social disorders. He's afraid people won't like him and i just... i'm anti social. I really think that how we are, think, behave as teenagers/adults/whatever is based on how we were treated as children.

[weezyjenn]

There is a point where the parents (or grand-parents in some cases) are to rough and if doesn't even phase the kids anymore when they are spanked. We have had many holidays ruined by our unruly niece and nephew...now they are on ridilyn(sp???)

[rua2j33]

There is a huge difference between spanking and abuse. I firmly believe that children need to understand that there is a consequence for bad behavior.

[Pentecostal_Wind]

i think this geneation these days is mest up,u shoulod disipline your child as needed,and thats not abuse,i agree with all of you that wipp your kids butt for bein brats :D amen

[zoe_uu]

There is never a good reason to beat or hit a child. I don't see how parents do that to their children. :sigh: True, I don't have children, but I have nieces and nephews that I love as my own and I can't ever imagine beating them, no matter what they did wrong. I was never beat as a child, and I wasn't a running wild.

[mrdavide]

sometimes a kid needs to be reminded who's the boss, I sure did.

[Grace_of_God]

I definately think spanking is okay and I will use it on my kids. Now mind you, there IS a line between loving discipline and abuse, and that line should NEVER be crossed no matter what the "crime" was. I also think that spanking is necessary for some behaviours and other forms of discipline just don't work all of the time. And, of course, it also depends on the child. There are some children who will be affected by spanking and only spanking, but likewise, there are also some who couldn't care less about it, and therefore different punishments would need to be found. It's about finding an EFFECTIVE punishment that actually corrects the behaviour which is important.

God bless!
~GoG~

[wakeboardwithheart]

im probably being bias cuz im a kid...but my father knocks me around all the time...i dont like it..but he says i need it

[TheMainException]

I think that spanking is okay for some kids, such as really wild ones, and others need a different type of discipline.

[INTHELIGHT]

To "Wakeboard with heart" - you are 14? "Knocking you around all the time" is not discipline. Sorry to hear this is happening to you baby. This is not good.

My 14 year old is 6'2" and can pick me up with one arm - I am very glad he is not violent! (He has a heart the size of Texas).

[wakeboardwithheart]

im not 6' 2'' im only 4' 11'' so even if i was as violent as everybody thinks, i wouldnt be able to do much damage.

[Johnna]

I've never been spanked before... except for that time my mom fwacked me on the butt when I was still in diapers 'cause I was reaching for the stove ^^;
In my opinion, the form of discipline depends on what type of person the person recieving it is.
A calm, quiet, polite child may benefit more from getting grounded; a loud, rambunctious child may benefit more from a spanking because it's a quick way to get your point across- no time for the child to argue with you about getting grounded. Sometimes though the tables turn and it's all visa versa! What would I know? I'm only fourteen O_O
~Johnna~

[LadyBird]

I do not believe in spankings. I believe that there are other, more appropriate ways to disipline a child. I think that the word spanking is just a fancier word for slapping and hitting.

[darkprincess0330]

Like it says in the bible. "Spare the rod, wreck the child." So I guess it is up to the individual person on what they do. I fear God, so I try to abide by the bible the best I can.

[Centrifuge04]

I think that most parents use spanking as a form of discipline just like my parents did.
I see no problem with it as long as it doesnt goto abusing

[HolySpiritWarrior]

I have mixed emotions on this...

[CZzyzx41]

I believe it's discipline but I don't believe it usually works. I think using spanking can be abuse. It's all how it is administered, through what spirit, and with what real intent.
It never worked for me and I likely won't use it myself as a parent.

[PaladinGirl]

I voted that it is abuse. I don't actually believe it is abuse though. I just simply disagree with it. I don't see how violence can produce obedience. I was spanked as a child sometimes and it pretty much led to fear for me. The only reason I obeyed was out of fear and that shouldn't be the case. A child should obey because they want to, not because they are afraid not to.

[Scally Cap]

im probably being bias cuz im a kid...but my father knocks me around all the time...i dont like it..but he says i need it
Sorry to hear this, wakeboard, especially since you describe yourself as a "worthless kid." No, I don't know you at all, but no man--no parent, period--should be "knocking around" a 4'11" girl. Don't let the abuse dictate what you think about yourself--he's exercising his own power, that's all, just because he can. Not because you need it. Nobody needs that.

[wakeboardwithheart]

its only abuse if i do nothing to deserve it.

[Isis452]

Who gave anyone the right to strike another human being, especially a child? I voted "Abuse" because I don't think any one of us has the right to physically strike another. Period, end of story.

[oldrooster]

My kids havent been spanked since they were 5.......

[Telrunya]

I voted that it is abuse. I don't actually believe it is abuse though. I just simply disagree with it. I don't see how violence can produce obedience. I was spanked as a child sometimes and it pretty much led to fear for me. The only reason I obeyed was out of fear and that shouldn't be the case. A child should obey because they want to, not because they are afraid not to.
You are assuming a certain level of reason here. A 1 or 2 year old usually does not have that level of comprehension. I believe that when disciplining children you must always tell them why what they are doing is wrong. If they continue the behavior then spanking may be needed to show them there are consequences for their actions. And still followed with the reason why. As some others have quoted earlier Proverbs 13:24 (http://www.biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?passage=PROV+13:24&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on&showxref=on) hits this topic square on.

[Kirisutokyoo-shinja]

I believe spare the rod says it all.

[twosteppin]

do I believe in spanking? no.
why? cause my parents did. :D

[Grace_of_God]

Who gave anyone the right to strike another human being.
God did. It is called discipline when done lovingly in order to correct wrong:

Proverbs 13:24-- He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes.

Proverbs 22:15-- Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him.

Proverbs 23:13-14-- Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die. Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.

Proverbs 29:15-- The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left to himself bringeth his mother to shame.

This does not mean we have the right to ABUSE children, but we do have the right to discipline them!

[wakeboardwithheart]

has God ever set a specific line between abuse and disipline? some parents believe its ok to go farther with disipline and some parents dont.

[Teacher]

My view has always been that spanking is an appropriate form of discipline when administered correctly and in the right circumstances. I do believe, however, that it is not necessarily the proper form of discipline for ALL children. My older daughter would have been emotionally destroyed by spanking - a harsh word was enough to cause her to literlly "break out" in rashes that, if not stopped quickly enough, resulted in bleeding - seriously! My second-youngest boy was immune to spankings - for him, having to sit in a chair for more than 10 minutes was excrutiating. I believe their are three principles about spanking that need to be observed:

1. Make the severity proportionate to the "crime".
2. Never do it when you are angry.
3. Only administer it in the physical area intended.

Always explain why, before, and always ensure the child does not confuse punishment (discipline) with the lack of love.

[Isis452]

God did. It is called discipline when done lovingly in order to correct wrong:

Proverbs 13:24-- He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes.

Proverbs 22:15-- Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him.

Proverbs 23:13-14-- Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die. Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.

Proverbs 29:15-- The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left to himself bringeth his mother to shame.

This does not mean we have the right to ABUSE children, but we do have the right to discipline them!
First, I would like to point out that God, the Almightly Lord Himself, did not say those things, the guy that wrote the scriptures did. Aswell, you are interpreting these scriptures literally, but I sincerly doubt God said to himself "Well you know, kids ARE a real pain sometimes, so I guess I'll tell their parents that if they don't whack them with sticks, they aren't being proper parents"
The contextualist interpretation of this practicular scripture, is simply that it is OK to discipline, be it verbal scolding (not to be confused with verbal abuse) the removal of priviledges, etc... I said it before and I say it again, there are many ways to go about discipline that don't involve any physical blows. So you see, I have no problem with "disciplining" a child, as long as it isn't physically hitting them (and call it what you will, but spanking/slapping, there all forms of hitting).
Spanking a child to bring about a change in their behaviour, in my opinion, has the same underlying tone of starting a war to bring about change. It does nothing but invoke fear.

[Picture.Of.Obedience]

Proverbs 13:24 (http://www.biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?passage=PROV+13:24&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on&showxref=on)
He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is careful to discipline him


~~~AMEN~~~


I do believe in spanking/discipline
not abuse but loving christian discipline

[Grace_of_God]

First, I would like to point out that God, the Almightly Lord Himself, did not say those things, the guy that wrote the scriptures did.
The scriptures are the inspired word of GOD HIMSELF! Therefore, yes, God DID say it!

Aswell, you are interpreting these scriptures literally
As they should be.

but I sincerly doubt God said to himself "Well you know, kids ARE a real pain sometimes, so I guess I'll tell their parents that if they don't whack them with sticks, they aren't being proper parents"
You're right, He DIDN'T say that--you are completely mis-representing what the verse means. It means that good parents discipline their kids and if the kids disobey, they should not be afraid to spank.

I said it before and I say it again, there are many ways to go about discipline that don't involve any physical blows.
There IS a difference between spanking and abuse and spanking does not involve "blows" to anyone ever. And spanking is a perfectly natural and healthy form of discipline.

So you see, I have no problem with "disciplining" a child, as long as it isn't physically hitting them
I guess we will just have to come to the comprimise that you will raise your children as YOU see fit and I will raise mine as *I* see fit! Simple as that!

[Grace_of_God]

I do believe in spanking/discipline
not abuse but loving christian discipline
AMEN :clap:

[gweneviere]

Hmmm.... I would like to say, first of all, that Grace is a very outspoken person, and I have been reading your posts recently. It seems that you are very offensive, however lol.

I was spanked like once, and slapped in the face once when I was younger, the latter influencing my choice to move out of my "Christian" home at a young age.

That said, I believe that much controversy over this subject is due to the fact that it is difficult for some people to define the line where discipline is abusive. The people I lived with would discipline me and my siblings when they got upset or angry about something, whether it was our fault or not. They thought they were doing the right thing because the Bible says to discipline.

For those that know how to control themselves, however, a spanking can be a good thing. I know that I was not the best child, I could be disrespectful, and a good LOVING smack would have put me back in line. that never happened though, lol.

anyways, I'm rambling, sorry. I think that spanking can be very beneficial for some children, but I don't think it is wrong to steer clear of it as a parent if you don't know if you could control yourself. Like anything else, God needs to be a part of the decision, and the worldly view that any physical contact is abuse should have no bearing on your decision.:)

[CoCoChiCa33]

discipline. My little sister needs more of it lol

[LOL-Hospital]

There's a verse in the bible somewhere in Hebrews. It talks about discipline... PHYSICAL discipline. We need it.

[Grace_of_God]

It seems that you are very offensive, however lol.
Who's offensive, me? Sorry, if you see me that way, but I am really not an offensive person and not attempting to be that way. My opinion does differ from some though and I am not afraid to share it!! So, that may make me outspoken (even though I am not in "real life") but I am not offensive.

[Newmom123]

Don't you agree that it should be on a case by case basis? I don't believe a child needs to be hit necessarily to be taught a lesson. My daughter responds to a firm voice... so why should I spank her? My friend's child, when given a time out, is upset, but has learned a lesson. But when spanked, she is just heartbroken and inconsolable.

I don't think you can say "always spank" as a blanket statement.... but train your child in the way s/he should go... .whatever that means for you and your child.

[bnkessler]

I do not believe that spanking in the way to go. I think of it as abuse, and I would never do that to my children...err, when I have kids. Lol. I was never spanked as a child, and I have never done a single drug or even been drunk. I never touched cigarette, did well in school, and have never been in trouble with the law, or even seriously with anything. I made some mistakes and my parents just lecture my ears off, and that was enough of a pain for me that I decided to just do what they asked of me, and then I wouldn't have to listen to their boring lecture's. I am really shocked to read the response on the poll. Geeez. Abuse in my opinion...

[Newmom123]

My friend's dad used to make him write an essay... aarrgh!!!!

[Newmom123]

Honestly, I was rarely hit... but the few times I was, all it taught me was to be afraid of consequences. And what I meant is... AFRAID... not just mindful of them. I want my child to fear me (in the RESPECT manner), but I don't want her to be AFRAID of me. I want her to understand CONSEQUENCES to behavior... not punishment.

And honestly for me, had my parents taken away privileges instead of hitting me, I would have learned CONSEQUENCES and not FEAR. But that's just me.

[alexeeah]

I already posted these once but here goes again!!

Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die.Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.(Prov23:13-14)

Pr 13:24He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes.


Pr 10:13In the lips of him that hath understanding wisdom is found: but a rod is for the back of him that is void of understanding.Pr 22:15Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him.Pr 26:3A whip for the horse, a bridle for the ***, and a rod for the fool's back.Pr 29:15The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left to himself bringeth his mother to shame.These are only a few of the scriptures pertaining to child raising and discipline in the bible.

[Newmom123]

I'm not talking about withholding correction. My point only was that different styles work for different people and for different children.

The verses that read "beat with a rod" is figurative. You might argue that it shouldn't be taken figuratively... but then you would need to literally BEAT your child then to stay true to Prov 23-13-14. If you don't take the BEAT part literally, but take only the rod part literally, then that's being inconsistent. I think the Bible talks about CORRECTION--- and throughout it talks about the rod and reproof.

[Alice the Sister]

you forgot the poll option "pleasure"

[Grace_of_God]

Newmom and Bnkessler,

Yes, I do agree that spanking isn't for everyone, and I think I acknowledged that here as well (not sure if it was here or another thread). However, you must keep in mind that lecturing and time outs and restrictions are not going to work for everyone either. The punishment that works best much be given and sometimes, for many children, spanking is that punishment--not always, but not never either! When I have children, if one responds better to restrictions, while another responds better to spankings, then so be it. People understand what a spanking is, when given properly and immediately after the bad behaviour, and also TALKING about it afterwards. Take my little cousins, nephews and neice for example. When they were babies (ie. walking but not talking), if they got into something they weren't supposed to, you could tell them "no" and move them away from it countless times and it rarely helped. They would think it was a game. But if you said no and lightly tapped them on the back of the hand (NOT enough for it to hurt since they were babies, just enough for them to feel it and understand), they would know immediately that it was something they weren't allowed to do, and would go amuse themselves with something else.

Back in past centuries, even a generation or two ago, spanking was the common form of discipline. When done lovingly and without getting out of control, it was considered a useful form of punishment. Now, it is hardly used at all, and the world is completely upside down and chaotic/immoral. No, not everyone is like that, but many people and that is partly the fault of the lack of appropriate discipline. Of course, not everyone takes well to spankings. Take my brother for example. My Mom very RARELY ever spanked us, only when we did something really bad. And when my father ever did, she would end up getting very upset (sad upset, although she never stopped him, she would go into another room. Because of this, he rarely spanked us as either). One day, when my brother was being particularly bad, my Mom just ended up spanking him. He said rather snottily "that didn't hurt". My brother never really learned from spankings. Restrictions were definately better for him. However, spanking DOES work for other kids out there and should be given to those whom it does work on. And no, when done lovingly and without it getting out of control, it is not abuse. It is a completely appropriate form of discipline.

In Christ,
~Susan~

[Grace_of_God]

you forgot the poll option "pleasure"

Since this is a Christian site, and not some kinky site, that option would probably be better not included anyway!

[sacred_stone]

I think that spanking shows a parents' inability to approach misbehavior in a beneficial manner. It's alot easier to swat your child on the bottom when they misbehave than it is to sit down and discuss with them why you are a disappointed in their behavior. There are better ways to confront misbehavior. Usually a response such as "I am disappointed in your behavior" will cause a child to think. A spanking will make them upset and angry which perpetuates the cycle of misbehavior. Spanking also teaches the child that hitting is an acceptable means of dealing with anger. Most of the time, spanking is done out of anger and frustration from the parents. If a parent takes the time to cool off, rather than react in haste, they can usually go back and talk with their child in a rational manner. Parents almost always spank immediately after the child misbehaves. They rarely ever go back ten minutes later and spank them. Children aren't as stupid as some people like to think. They can comprehend effective displinary dialogue from the parent. They also learn at a very early age how to associate anger with hitting.

[Grace_of_God]

In Christ,
~Susan~
Oopsie, mistake. LOL, anyway, that is my real name. ~Grace~ comes from my alias Grace_of_God.

[Hix]

Personally I believe spanking is a bad form of discipline, its important to keep children on the straight and narrow, let them know what is good and bad and theres consequences for the latter. But at the same time there should be countless ways of doing such without resorting to violence even if the intentions are good.

I suppose thats easier said than done.
Shalom and G-d bless
~Hix~

[sacred_stone]

Amen Hix!

[alexeeah]

I'm not talking about withholding correction. My point only was that different styles work for different people and for different children.

The verses that read "beat with a rod" is figurative. You might argue that it shouldn't be taken figuratively... but then you would need to literally BEAT your child then to stay true to Prov 23-13-14. If you don't take the BEAT part literally, but take only the rod part literally, then that's being inconsistent. I think the Bible talks about CORRECTION--- and throughout it talks about the rod and reproof.
No I don't take the "beat" part literally but I don't spank my children with paddle either. According to the state it is abuse if you spank with anything other than your hand so therefore I spank my child with my hand to save his soul from hell.

[Grace_of_God]

I think that spanking shows a parents' inability to approach misbehavior in a beneficial manner.
I believe this is completely false. Spanking IS beneficial for many children.

It's alot easier to swat your child on the bottom when they misbehave than it is to sit down and discuss with them why you are a disappointed in their behavior.
Perhaps this is true for some, but for people who really truly spank in an appropriate way, TALKING about the behaviour follows the spanking.

There are better ways to confront misbehavior.
For *some* children yes, not for all!

A spanking will make them upset and angry which perpetuates the cycle of misbehavior.
This is usually only ever the case with abuse. And spanking is not abuse when done correctly.

Spanking also teaches the child that hitting is an acceptable means of dealing with anger.
No, it doesn't. I know COUNTLESS people who were spanked (not abused, just spanked) and none of them have ever thought this. Most do see it as an acceptable means of discipline though.

Most of the time, spanking is done out of anger and frustration from the parents.
When done appropriately, it is done out of love for the child and a desire to correct the bad behaviour so the child can grow up correctly.

If a parent takes the time to cool off, rather than react in haste, they can usually go back and talk with their child in a rational manner.
If a punishment is not given out immediately, then it shouldn't be given at all. Many people put it off and then everything is happy-go-lucky when all of a sudden then punishment comes later, after the child thinks everything is a-okay. THIS is what confuses the child. Punishment must be given at the time the bad behaviour occurs.


Yes, that's how it should be.

[QUOTE=sacred_stone]They rarely ever go back ten minutes later and spank them.
You can't go back later, it is too late then. The time has passed and the bad behaviour went nearly unnoticed. ANY form of punishment must be given right away.

Children aren't as stupid as some people like to think.
Noone said children are stupid, nor do I know anyone who thinks they are.

They can comprehend effective displinary dialogue from the parent.
Not all children can, no. Spanking is the only form that truly works on some.

They also learn at a very early age how to associate anger with hitting.
The only children who learn this, are those who are abused. Not those who are lovingly disciplined. There is a difference between spanking and abuse! Abuse is what usually leads to the bad behaviour in the child. Spanking usually leads to understanding and a realization.

[sacred_stone]

so therefore I spank my child with my hand to save his soul from hell.
You've got to be kidding me. Some parents here in Georgia are on trial right now because their church encouraged "righteous discipline" and they beat their child to death.

[monty804]

without resorting to violence

even if the intentions are good.

~Hix~
discipline is about learning, not violence. punishment should not be given in anger or excess, but should be used as a tool for learning, sometimes a good swat on the butt is what a kid needs to get their attention.

[Remy12]

discipline if you ask me....

Remy :priest:

[monty804]

You've got to be kidding me. Some parents here in Georgia are on trial right now because their church encouraged "righteous discipline" and they beat their child to death.
obviously some people are crazy. this is not what is being discussed here as "discipline" or "punishment".

[Grace_of_God]

But at the same time there should be countless ways of doing such without resorting to violence even if the intentions are good.
Sorry Hix, gotta disagree with ya--didn't think that would ever happen. :P Spanking is not violence. Abuse is violence. Spanking, when done *appropriately* is done lovingly and generally corrects the behaviour quickly. Unfortunately, people DO take it out of hand, and then it turns into abuse or nearly borders onto it (which is pratically equally as bad anyway.) Abuse is, and should be, illegal (around here it is anyway). Spanking, when it proves to be an effective punishment for that particular child, should be encouraged. Because like I said, spanking is the ONLY thing that will work for some. And yes, when another form of punishment is the most effective for that *particular* child, then THAT is what should be done. But it isn't the case for all.

[monty804]

I believe this is completely false. Spanking IS beneficial for many children.


Perhaps this is true for some, but for people who really truly spank in an appropriate way, TALKING about the behaviour follows the spanking.


For *some* children yes, not for all!


This is usually only ever the case with abuse. And spanking is not abuse when done correctly.


No, it doesn't. I know COUNTLESS people who were spanked (not abused, just spanked) and none of them have ever thought this. Most do see it as an acceptable means of discipline though.


When done appropriately, it is done out of love for the child and a desire to correct the bad behaviour so the child can grow up correctly.


If a punishment is not given out immediately, then it shouldn't be given at all. Many people put it off and then everything is happy-go-lucky when all of a sudden then punishment comes later, after the child thinks everything is a-okay. THIS is what confuses the child. Punishment must be given at the time the bad behaviour occurs.


You can't go back later, it is too late then. The time has passed and the bad behaviour went nearly unnoticed. ANY form of punishment must be given right away.


Noone said children are stupid, nor do I know anyone who thinks they are.


Not all children can, no. Spanking is the only form that truly works on some.


The only children who learn this, are those who are abused. Not those who are lovingly disciplined. There is a difference between spanking and abuse! Abuse is what usually leads to the bad behaviour in the child. Spanking usually leads to understanding and a realization.

you go girl!!

[Grace_of_God]

discipline is about learning, not violence. punishment should not be given in anger or excess, but should be used as a tool for learning, sometimes a good swat on the butt is what a kid needs to get their attention.
EXACTLY! I agree completely!

[alexeeah]

Just to give you an example of how it should be this is what we do.

We enter the bedroom and shut the door. No other siblings allowed just mom and kid (or dad and kid). We talk about what happened, why it was wrong. Then I get out the word of God and show the child what God says about it. How to change and keep from doing it again. Then we pray about it . Then we spank. Next comes the part where I hold the child on my lap until he/she is done crying. Then we talk about it somemore. You knowmore often than not my 6yr old and 4yr old acctually thank me for spanking them. THey say it helps them to feel less "Icky" (I consider this Icky feeling the feeing of guilt for sin). Also we don't spank for everything we spank when it is a behavior that will send the child to hell if not corrected. For instance, name calling gets verbal reprmand three times and if it lasts to the fourth offense we spank (considered rebellion of authoroties) On the other hand stealing, or Lying gets immeadiate spanking considering these are two of the commands given to us in the bible.

[sacred_stone]

So spanking your child for certain indiscretions delivers them from the dangers of hell? Whoa some people have a warped interpretation of the Scriptures.

[zoe_uu]

I am completely shocked and horrified that any parent would knowingly physically hurt their child and call that love. I cannot understand this. :sigh:

When I'm out and see parents hitting their children because they're not listening, or they're crying too much, or whatever, my heart completely breaks for those children. Maybe they did something wrong, but I cannot come up with any reason why a child should be beaten.

[Newmom123]

No I don't take the "beat" part literally but I don't spank my children with paddle either. According to the state it is abuse if you spank with anything other than your hand so therefore I spank my child with my hand to save his soul from hell.

Only God can save a soul from hell. Accepting Christ as savior brings salvation... not a spanking.

The "save his soul from hell" is also not a literal meaning... to take it as such contradicts the gospel itself.

[Newmom123]

Just to give you an example of how it should be this is what we do.

We enter the bedroom and shut the door. No other siblings allowed just mom and kid (or dad and kid). We talk about what happened, why it was wrong. Then I get out the word of God and show the child what God says about it. How to change and keep from doing it again. Then we pray about it . Then we spank. Next comes the part where I hold the child on my lap until he/she is done crying. Then we talk about it somemore. You knowmore often than not my 6yr old and 4yr old acctually thank me for spanking them. THey say it helps them to feel less "Icky" (I consider this Icky feeling the feeing of guilt for sin). Also we don't spank for everything we spank when it is a behavior that will send the child to hell if not corrected. For instance, name calling gets verbal reprmand three times and if it lasts to the fourth offense we spank (considered rebellion of authoroties) On the other hand stealing, or Lying gets immeadiate spanking considering these are two of the commands given to us in the bible.

And anyway, I don't think I was arguing that spanking is wrong in all cases. I just said that I think it's a case by case basis...

But I definitely disagree with your statement that ...."Just to give you an example of how it should be this is what we do." Are you saying that all parents should spank all their children?

[alexeeah]

And anyway, I don't think I was arguing that spanking is wrong in all cases. I just said that I think it's a case by case basis...

But I definitely disagree with your statement that ...."Just to give you an example of how it should be this is what we do." Are you saying that all parents should spank all their children?

yep!!

[alexeeah]

So spanking your child for certain indiscretions delivers them from the dangers of hell? Whoa some people have a warped interpretation of the Scriptures.
Pr 23:13Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die.
Pr 23:14Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.

[zoe_uu]

Pr 23:13Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die.
Pr 23:14Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.
How does beating someone with a rod deliver their soul from hell? I thought you did that by repenting and following Jesus. :scratch:

[alexeeah]

How does beating someone with a rod deliver their soul from hell? I thought you did that by repenting and following Jesus. :scratch:
I didn't say that King Soloman did under the inspiration of God.....go figure.:confused:

[Grace_of_God]

Maybe they did something wrong, but I cannot come up with any reason why a child should be beaten.
There IS a DIFFERENCE between beating someone and spanking someone. Beating borders onto abuse, and it comes from anger. Spanking comes from love and a desire to show them the right way. I repeat: spanking may not be right for all children but it IS the ONLY thing that works for others! I feel bad for those children who are NOT spanked and need to be--because they grow up to be bitter spolied brats!

[Grace_of_God]

The "save his soul from hell" is also not a literal meaning... to take it as such contradicts the gospel itself.
I think she was referring to keeping her children on the right track. That is what the Bible means: to keep the children on the right track to God. That is what discipline accomplishes.

[Grace_of_God]

How does beating someone with a rod deliver their soul from hell? I thought you did that by repenting and following Jesus. :scratch:
One is not going to repent unless one KNOWS they did something wrong. This is where discipline comes in.

[zoe_uu]

There IS a DIFFERENCE between beating someone and spanking someone. Beating borders onto abuse, and it comes from anger. Spanking comes from love and a desire to show them the right way. I repeat: spanking may not be right for all children but it IS the ONLY thing that works for others! I feel bad for those children who are NOT spanked and need to be--because they grow up to be bitter spolied brats!

I don't know... I just can't see how spanking is not the same as beating or hitting a child, it still causes physical harm.

[zoe_uu]

One is not going to repent unless one KNOWS they did something wrong. This is where discipline comes in.
But I don't see why beating them is the only way to discipline a child.

[Miss Shelby]

edited for content due to conviction. I'm really gonna get myself in trouble one of these days.

[Newmom123]

I think she was referring to keeping her children on the right track. That is what the Bible means: to keep the children on the right track to God. That is what discipline accomplishes.

OK... then you're taking a figurative meaning out of it...

I believe alexeeah is taking a literal meaning out of it. And she also believes that all parents should spank all their children.

With that logic... then alexeeah, do you also believe in an eye for an eye? If your daughter pulls your hair, do you pull hers back? If she slaps you across the face, do you give her a whack across hers? When your infant bites you when nursing, do you bite him back?

[Newmom123]

Alexeeah--

Do you think that parents who choose to discipline their children by taking away privileges and using time outs instead of corporal punishment are bad parents??

[SUNSTONE]

Alexeeah--

Do you think that parents who choose to discipline their children by taking away privileges and using time outs instead of corporal punishment are bad parents??
In that area of your parenting, yes.

[alexeeah]

Alexeeah--

Do you think that parents who choose to discipline their children by taking away privileges and using time outs instead of corporal punishment are bad parents??
No restriction of privileges works for teenagers sometimes,(as at this age they are almost too big for spankings merely laughing at you when you do it) however time out doens't teach the child anything. My kids would just sit there playing by themselves till they got up. So to answer your question, No I don't think that a parent who doesn't spank is a bad parent just one who will have children who are annoying to others in public and who are badly behaved.

[zoe_uu]

I don't think that a parent who doesn't spank is a bad parent just one who will have children who are annoying to others in public and who are badly behaved.I'm sorry but I find that offensive. My parents didn't beat me and I wasn't a public bother or misbehaved. I was very well behaved from the discipline my parents used which did not include hitting me in anyway shape, form or fashion.

[HesMyAll]

I don't think Alexeeah meant that you have to beat a child to be a good parent. I have had four children and each one had a different personality. What worked for one didn't necessarily work for one of the others. Discipline needs to be catered to each child individually. Some children need no more than a tone of voice, others need a much firmer hand. If a simple verbal reprimand works, there is no need to use any other form of discipline. Likewise, if a simple verbal reprimand or time outs don't work, then corporal punishment may be the only thing that does work.

[Newmom123]

No restriction of privileges works for teenagers sometimes,(as at this age they are almost too big for spankings merely laughing at you when you do it) however time out doens't teach the child anything. My kids would just sit there playing by themselves till they got up. So to answer your question, No I don't think that a parent who doesn't spank is a bad parent just one who will have children who are annoying to others in public and who are badly behaved.

By your very argument (that parents who have badly behaved children are not good parents... not just a parent who doesn't spank) shows that you also agree that it is a CASE BY CASE basis. God calls us to discipline our children... yes. But I believe God gives us a mind and prayer so that we can decipher what is the best way to discipline our child. If one person needs to do a time out, fine. If another child doesn't mind time outs, then you have to find something else. If another child needs a spanking to get the message, then spank. I don't think it's fair to make a blanket statement that all parents should spank. Just as it is unfair for someone to say that all spanking is bad.

[EmSchmem]

Ah the joys of deciding who's "right" and who's "wrong" Oh joy of joys. If you aren't willing to do what it takes (and no I don't mean abusing your kids!!!! so don't go on a nilly about that people) to correct and discipline your child, you run the risk of them not learning discipline and self control. You can't put your defenses up about it. I know specifically of a LOT of kids who could benefit from a good butt whap. I am most definately one of them. I needed to get clicked on once or twice and I can promise you that I have suffered for my lack of discipline growing up. May that be spanking or other forms. I also do not think I'd have been scarred for life had someone spanked my butt in a loving way. No I don't condone a whack across the back of the head or the use of belts or switches or paddles, but noone ever spent years in therapy over a hand whack to a covered butt that was intended to correct and not hurt (ouch my 21st birthday!)

[Katydid]

I voted that it is discipline. For those who say that spanking too easily leads to abuse, I would like to tell you something that happened about a month ago in my home. My 2 1/2 yr. old was waiting next to my van for me to put my daughter in, this is a normal thing, my daughter is 11 months and I can't lift him into the van with her in my hands. Anyway, I went over to open the door for him, he moved right by the van back away from the door, which many of you know that he can't stand there for me to open the door. I was stressed and I said very sternly "Justin move AWAY from the door". He moved back into the road right as a semi was coming down it. I was trying to get to him when I started screaming expletives, I called him many things and was cursing at him and finally got to him and yanked his arm to get him back to me. Now, I did not spank him, but what I had done before that was abusive in every way. I had to hold him and comfort him for about 20 minutes, which I never have to do when I spank. My words hurt him more than any physical discipline could have. Just wanted everyone to understand that no one form of discipline is abuse, but all discipline can become abusive if you allow anger to overcome you.

[Miss Shelby]

In that area of your parenting, yes.Oh please. Spanking only works, imo, on very small children and as a form of conditioning only. Like if they want to do something that puts them in danger, like stick something into an electrical socket or if they want to run out into the street.

Taking away privledges, making them experience natural consequences for their own poor behavior is a very effective way to discipline.

Just because some people opt not to spank doesn't make them bad parents, and some parents who do it impulsively out of anger are actually teaching their kids that it's okay to hit.

I wonder how many people who are voicing their opinion in this thread even have any kids?

Michelle

[Grace_of_God]

I don't know... I just can't see how spanking is not the same as beating or hitting a child, it still causes physical harm.
That is the difference--spanking doesn't cause any harm at all, abuse does!

[Grace_of_God]

But I don't see why beating them is the only way to discipline a child.
I don't believe it is the only way. I believe that talking helps, and so does restrictions at times. But I do believe that spanking is necssary at times. It all depends on the individual child and the specific situation.

[Grace_of_God]

OK... then you're taking a figurative meaning out of it...
You must not understand completely what I am saying because I AM taking a literal meaning of it. That discipline helps keep people on the path of righteousness and therefore away from a life which will lead to Hell. I am still taking it literally!

[alexeeah]

That is the difference--spanking doesn't cause any harm at all, abuse does!

Right on!! That is why God gave us an extra cushion on our fanny!!

[Newmom123]

You must not understand completely what I am saying because I AM taking a literal meaning of it. That discipline helps keep people on the path of righteousness and therefore away from a life which will lead to Hell. I am still taking it literally!

I did understand.

Literal meaning= BEAT your kid with a ROD
Figurative meaning= discipline your child

We can be talking circles around this... all I'm saying is that I think that I think different forms of discipline works for different kids and different parents. If you decide to spank and you stand right before God in doing that, then that's great for you. If you decide to take away privileges in lieu of spanking and you think you are raising your child in the way s/he should go... then that's great for you.

But I disagree with those who say that a non-spanking parent is a bad one.

My friend uses spanking in a way that is NOT loving and I have another friend that I think uses spanking quite well. I do not spank and everyone comments what a good, obedient girl she is (someone asked me just today... does she EVER cry?). Why should I spank my girl when a stern voice works? When she is older (she is only 15 months now), I wil take away privileges or do whatever I think is the right thing to do for my child. But I refuse to think that spanking is the ONLY way (or even the BEST way) to discipline.. as I think it depends on the parent and the child.

[oldrooster]

If you don't want your kids to be idiots, spank them......

[Newmom123]

If you don't want your kids to be idiots, spank them......

I'm assuming that you're kidding???

:confused: :confused:

[oldrooster]

I'm assuming that you're kidding???

:confused: :confused:
I don't mean beat them, but disipline them, the world will thank you.......

[Jennifer615]

I have 2 children, 8 and 17 months. I spanked by daughter until she was 6. I am just starting to spank my son on the wrist when he is defiant.

Contray to popular belief, I believe that spanking is sometimes the only answer for a young child. Taking away privilidges just makes them throw bigger tantrums. We are parents and must show who is boss. The Bible endorses corporal punishment. Providing it is used just for disipline, and not out of frustration, I believe it works.

[zoe_uu]

That is the difference--spanking doesn't cause any harm at all, abuse does!
What do you means it doesn't harm the child? Of course it does, it hurts them!

[Philled-one]

The problem with spanking is that it can in some cases degenerate into abuse.

[Grace_of_God]

What do you means it doesn't harm the child? Of course it does, it hurts them!
So does yelling! But neither cause HARM unless they turn into abuse!!

[Grace_of_God]

The problem with spanking is that it can in some cases degenerate into abuse.
But just because in SOME cases it leads to abuse, doesn't mean that it is a bad sort of discipline for those who know how to do it correctly. Yelling can lead to abuse as well, not doing anything can lead to abuse, pretty much ANYTHING can lead to abuse. Abuse comes from an abusive person not from spanking.

[zoe_uu]

So does yelling! But neither cause HARM unless they turn into abuse!!But where is the line? Why is it OK to say if I hit you because I think you did something wrong, then that's discipline, but if I hit you for no reason then that is abuse? To me hitting is hitting, and it is never acceptable to hit a child.

[Beanface]

But where is the line? Why is it OK to say if I hit you because I think you did something wrong, then that's discipline, but if I hit you for no reason then that is abuse? To me hitting is hitting, and it is never acceptable to hit a child.

I'm very glad that my parents spanked me as a child. There is a difference between abuse and dicipline. If the parent is spanking their children becuase they enjoy it, then it is definitely wrong, but when the parents don't want to to it (like in my case) it's much different.. my parents didn't like spanking me, but that's how I learned, and I turned out to be a pretty good kid as far as dicipline and following rules/authority.

I know I just said that it's right/wrong depending on parents attitudes, and to the kid it's the same thing, but again, there's a difference between a spank on the bottom and a punch to the chest.

[Moros]

A harsh word hurts more than a spank. A valuable lesson is better than harsh words.

no, I don't believe in spanking, I believe in correcting and teaching.

[Grace_of_God]

But where is the line? Why is it OK to say if I hit you because I think you did something wrong, then that's discipline, but if I hit you for no reason then that is abuse? To me hitting is hitting, and it is never acceptable to hit a child.
And you are entitled to your opinion, I just disagree. I think it is acceptable to spank a child when s/he is being bad. It is easy to tell where the line is. When it turns into physical wounds ie.cuts, bruises, black eyes, etc. A smack on a clothed bottom (I don't believe in spanking with the bare butt because I believe in discipline a child, not humiliating them) when a child has done something wrong, does not leave any kind of mark--unless it is abuse. And as I said, yelling and speaking sternly can just as much turn into abuse as spanking does. So I repeat, abusive people abuse, it is not spanking or yelling or anything else that causes it.

[Grace_of_God]

A harsh word hurts more than a spank.
Yes exactly!! I agree completely.

[Athanasian Creed]

What do you think of spanking? And no, I don't mean the 'in the bedroom' kind. Have you or were you spanked as a child? Do you or do you intend to spank your children? Do some kids need a smack? Do some adults need a smack? Some countries still have corporal punishment for adults. What are your thoughts?

I believe the Bible teaches "spare the rod, spoil the child" There is a time and place for godly discipline of children which the Lord has given the parents the responsibility to administer in bringing up their children. That means, at times, applying the "board of education to the seat of knowledge" :D I was most definitely spanked as a child and sometimes not just with an open hand but sometimes with whatever was in arms length of my mom at the time :eek: She had to be both mom and dad with me and my brother and both of us turned out OK. :D



Ray :wave:

[going_crazy_am_i_me2]

i was spanked when i was younger, and the only times my rents spanked me was when they were angry or in a bad mood about something... and they took theyre anger out on me. so ive never been to keen on spanking kids, even if its for diciplin.

[imtelln]

I believe spanking should be reserved only for specific reasons AND it should be followed up on with a discussion once the situation calms. I have 3 fairly older children whom I have very rarely spanked...but I have spanked. I noticed that it has a powerful impact when I do spank, and so I do not resort to this discipline frequently. I have built a relationship with my children in much the same way as I believe God wants with us. If you love Him with all your heart, your desire is to please Him. That love is birthed through a relationship with Him. Likewise, I have established a relationship with my children, that for the most part, they respect and honor me because they love me, making good choices and following my advice, but, occasionally, they make wrong choices and some are deliberate and swift, directly hurting themselves or others. I know my kids because I am constantly relating with them. My gauge is accurate. After I discipline them in this way, I follow up with them, let them tell me what they feel they need to tell me, and we always end in a hug because I tell them if I did not love them, I would not care what they did to themselves, but that they matter greatly to me. If I didn't have that strong relationship with them outside this discipline, I doubt they could believe I am doing it because I love them. Their hug is not quite the same as an everyday hug at first, but, it definitely is one that prevents walls being built between us. Before I know it, we are back on track AND without grudges. Overused, spanking can lose its effect and cause anger instead. Moderation and relationship is the key.

[Jedi]

As far as being punished is concerned, rest assured, as a little boy, I feared being spanked more than anything else - being grounded, scolded, sat in the corner, etc. It was, by far, the most effective method of discipline and I am glad I was spanked. Those who think it's wrong to "hit a child" are definitely not in line with the Bible's take on the subject. Proverbs 23:13 is conclusive: "Do not withhold discipline from a child; if you punish him with a rod, he will not die" (NIV). There stands no reason for the Bible to use "the rod" as the example of discpline it's promoting if it disagreed with that method of discipline.

[Dr Majestic]

not to sure a spanking can easly become a beating that I dont agree with.

[wakeboardwithheart]

not to sure a spanking can easly become a beating that I dont agree with.
its possable. i know but like i said before..im just a kid..what do i know? my father used to er..."spank" me everyday. but all of those ended up becoming a beating. so spanking can become a beating pretty easily.

[DanielJamesSimon]

Discipline.

Proverbs 13:24 - "He who withhold his rod hates his son, but he who loves him disciplines him diligently."

Proverbs 22:6, 15 "Train up a child in the way he should go, even when he is old he will not depart from it... ...Foolishness is bound up in the heart of a child; the rod of discipline will remove it far from him."

[Krystina661]

I believe in spankings and discipline. They are necessary in certain situations.. :sorry:

[stillblessed]

i believe in spanking as the last resort,if it is a crime that is worth it,like the child is harmful to someone else. i dont believe in it,for little things they do,like reaching for things at store they shouldn't. i work in daycare,and see that parents are so easily swayed these days,but not spanking,and as results,kids are disrespectul.i was spanked,not alot,but enough to get my attention. i dont believe in leaving marks,but a spank now and then,will not hurt the child.

[rhemarob]

As the father of an 8 year old boy that I love more than my own life I can tell you that spanking is no fun but necessary sometimes.

[tqpix]

Spanking is okay as long as you use a rod:

Proverbs 13:24

[PaladinGirl]

I believe that spanking is only ok when other measures of discipline have failed.

[hopper]

Spare the rod, spoil the child !

[christianfilmcrew]

Mostly discipline, but it is possible to abuse if it's not done in love and in Christ.

[Merulotte]

I was never spanked as a child. Maybe it was because I never really misbehaved enough to be punished in such a way.

I'm not a parent, and I don't believe I will be, (Celibacy for me.) but even if spanking teaches the lesson well, it's still a little extreme. Taking away priveledges would probably be just as good, like lessening television time. Promise to return their priveledges when they behave well again.

I'm really not sure how to discipline anyone... But spanking is painful and violent, and parents can't feel too good after harming their child/ren. So, I don't believe it's a good thing.

[Niko]

the OT has spoken!

[Katydid]

Merulotte,

You are right, for some children all it takes is taking away priveledges, but for others.....well. For example, my stepson, has had all his priveledges revoked, each one for a different thing, NO RESULTS. He lost one, then did something else, and another, something else, another gone. It was to the point where to revoke anything else I would have had to put him on bread and water. The next thing he did, I told him I had nothing left to take away, so he got a spanking, his behavior improved. NOONE LIKES to spank their children and if they do enjoy it, they shouldn't do it. But, at times it is necessary. My two year old almost got hit by a car, next time he ran to the street I spanked his bottom, he hasn't done it since. As I said, it is only a truly sick parent who ENJOYS spanking, but a responsible parent does whatever it takes to protect their child from dangers, whether physical or emotional. I appreciate that you admit that you don't know, I just figured I would show you the side of it that supports the use of this form of discipline. I hope you don't feel that I am insisting that I am right, or my way is the only way, just that it is a way.

[Merulotte]

Yes, you're right, Katydid. I suppose some kids are more ironwilled than others.

I guess if nothing else works, spanking is a good option, just not as pleasant for either the recipient or the giver. Some things can only be resolved with pain, I suppose. :(

[DeusAmante]

What do you think of spanking? And no, I don't mean the 'in the bedroom' kind. Have you or were you spanked as a child? Do you or do you intend to spank your children? Do some kids need a smack? Do some adults need a smack? Some countries still have corporal punishment for adults. What are your thoughts?
Yes, I was spanked as a child....and I do believe in it--& I also didn't suffer any life scars from it! But I also think that some children do not respond to it at all, and therefore other actions are required to make them mind. I DO NOT at all codone abusing the rights of a parent and spanking out of anger. I do believe though if it is done in love it can mold that child and teach him how to obey.

Here's some verses that back this up...

Proverbs 13:24 "He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is careful to discipline him."
Proverbs 23:13-14 "Do not withhold discipline from a child; if you punish with the rod he will not die. Punish him with the rod and save his soul from death."

SO yes, I COMPLETELY agree with spanking.

In His Grip,
Hannah :holy:

[MoKnows]

i believe that spanking contributes to up right children for if God the Father of all chastises thoses who he loves why shouldnt we to set them in the right way but it must be done with noe hate in our hearts but true love :preach:

[~PICKLE~]

As long as it's on the bum and not in anger. And only for disipline

[k]

Since most people (75%) voted in favor of spanking, this post may not be received very well...but this is a topic close to my heart and experience. If you cannot imagine Jesus doing it, then how can it possibly be justified? Let's call it what it is--violence--nothing more, nothing less. When Jesus cleared the Temple did He strike anyone? Don't think so...The only time (strictly in my lowly opinion) smacking or spanking is appropriate is when the child is too young to have a clear understanding of verbal communication. I.e. A 2 year old getting too close to the stove.

To resort to violence as a form of discipline is to take the Love of Christ and throw it right back at Him. There are no easy answers to raising children, but it is wholly wrong to hit a child, or an adult.

Bottom line is most people spank children because they have (a) run out of ideas (b) lose their temper (c) are simply passing on a sick tradition (d) acting out their own mental problems. I can tell you by the Holy Spirit and in the Beautiful name of Jesus it is NEVER okay to hit a child.

Peace

[Richard]

I myself would never spank my children if I have them in the future

[Nevada77]

IS SPANKING CONSIDERED CORPORAL PUNISHMENT?

When I think of corporal punishment I think army drills like fingertips up against the wall, phone books on the arms and other harsher punishments. I think that a spanking once in a while if it is going to teach a lesson is ok but not all the time.
Don't lose your temper, use your temper!

Nevada :angel:

[Andy D]

Spare the Rod, spoil the child....I was smacked as a child and I hold no regrets...in fact I am glad I did..I would have thought my parents were being cruel to me not to spank me.

[Katydid]

they have (a) run out of ideas
If it is used as a last resort, then yes, I guess this could apply. But many of us use it much more consistently as a known discipline to our children. If the child knows that they will recieve a spanking for doing a specific thing, then they CHOOSE to recieve a spanking when they do it.

(b) lose their temper
Most parents who I know, including myself, who spank, REFUSE to spank if they are angry. It is too easy to loose control and go to far. If you are completely in control and not loosing your temper then a spanking should be no more than a sting.

(c) are simply passing on a sick tradition
This comment of course is your opinion. I don't believe it is sick. What I believe is sick is watching people with children who attack them and yet they refuse to spank them. I have seen a mother with a four year old child who controlled her because the child didn't care about time outs, he just refused to sit. If she held him, he bit her. He would physically attack him, and her only recourse was to try and convince him that what he was doing was not the "right kind of touch". This child already has the upper hand and it will only get worse as he gets bigger. Can you imagine this child as a teenager? That is a legacy I don't want to pass on.

(d) acting out their own mental problems.
This is also an opinion. Considering that most people who have that kind of mental problem, are probably abusive in their manner and actually cause physical harm, they need help. Many people who refuse to spank are refusing in response to their past experience with an abusive parent. So you could say that they are acting on their mental problems.


If you cannot imagine Jesus doing it, then how can it possibly be justified?

I can imagine HaShem telling us to do it. I can't base my parenting on how Yeshua(Jesus) related to other adults. We don't see him parenting his own children, so I cannot use His LIFE as an example of how to raise children. BUT, he lived a life according to the Torah. His Father says that we are to spank our children. Am I to throw out all the good information in the OT? Or should I realize that Yeshua was silent on the issues that did not need further explanation. It is fairly clear, "spare the rod, spoil the child", perhaps he did not feel the need to expound on that because it is understood the way it is said.

[Raithlin]

Spare the Rod, spoil the child....I was smacked as a child and I hold no regrets...in fact I am glad I did..I would have thought my parents were being cruel to me not to spank me.
Absolutely. However, in this sinful world, discipline, if not done in moderation, can easily become abuse...

I took a stand and said yes. I spank my children when I have to, though it pains me to do it. That alone keeps me from abusing my children. :cry:

[k]

Please do not receive my opinions as any form of personal attack. They are simply my opinions, but they are there for empirical and prayer filled reasons.

I can't base my parenting on how Yeshua(Jesus) related to other adults. We don't see him parenting his own children, so I cannot use His LIFE as an example of how to raise children.This is curious that you state you don't see Him parenting His own children. Are we not His children? You and I, and everyone else? God does not have grandchildren.

BUT, he lived a life according to the Torah. His Father says that we are to spank our children. Am I to throw out all the good information in the OT? Or should I realize that Yeshua was silent on the issues that did not need further explanation.Which version of the Torah? There were three in "Development" when Jesus was walking His course. There were 613 Commandments, not just 10. If you wish to take the position that Jesus was silent on the issues that needed no emending, then how do you explain the very specific law in Leviticus that ALL children who curse their parents should be put to death? It is reprehensible and abashedly bizarre to claim we should put children to death for cursing their parents. Yet, this is what is states in the O.T., and Jesus never addressed this specific issue, so are we to assume that law still stands? I do not believe so. My position on the spanking issue is that it is violence, and worst of all, it teaches children that when people do not do what you want them to do, all you have to do is excercise that violence in order to "correct" them. It is by Grace and pure Faith that I am able to say that if we would do our best to submit to the Holy Spirit that God would provide a God Way to solve the problem, not a human way. When did Jesus (God) ever strike a person (His Child) to "correct" that person? How do you expect to be corrected by God? The same should apply for all children, not just the smaller ones.

Peace:)

[Katydid]

If you wish to take the position that Jesus was silent on the issues that needed no emending, then how do you explain the very specific law in Leviticus that ALL children who curse their parents should be put to death?


I don't believe that Yeshua "amended" any of the law, he just explained it further.

If you look into the history of the Jews, you will find that most rabbis believe that no child had been put to death, because the requirements were to strict to have every disobedient child killed. From what I have understood, the parents had to prove that they had done everything to prevent their child from being disobedient.


Are we not His children? You and I, and everyone else? God does not have grandchildren.


Yeshua was G-d's son, we are G-d's children, that would make the man of Yeshua our brother. Not that this has anything to do with the comment I made anyway, considering my parents are still my parents even though I have children of my own now. They would never consider dealing with me now the same way that they dealt with me as a child. Yeshua never raised infants or toddlers that we know of, so we don't know how he would deal with them. That was the point I was making. If I saw him discipline a child (under 13 years old, literally) then I could use that as an example.


My position on the spanking issue is that it is violence, and worst of all, it teaches children that when people do not do what you want them to do, all you have to do is excercise that violence in order to "correct" them.

I respect your opinion, and I know that you will raise your children in the best way you can. Just as I am doing. As far as spanking teaching violence... well, I have practical experience that shows a different result. My children do not use violence to solve problems, they may scream (3 yr. old) but they do not ever raise their hand to anyone, they don't bite, they don't push. I am not saying they have never done these things, but they were immediately met with a smack on their behind, and they don't do these things. My seven year old is small for his age and has been repeatedly bullied. I confronted one of the bully's mother and asked her what she would do, she made it clear that she does not use any form of physical punishment and that this only teaches children to be violent. Her son, and other kids, pinned down my child and kicked him repeatedly, and yet their parents don't use any form of physical punishment. So the spanking=violence is truly a flawed concept. I am not saying that not spanking =violence. What I am saying is that for people to continuously say that if I spank my child then I am teaching violence, is not proven in my children's behavior.

[Touring3D]

Oh yeah! A good spankin' goes a long way. :)

I was spanked, and it helped me for sure.

I was in my pschology class, and the professor said we shouldn't spank our kids, because it scars them. LOL! Everyone in the class laughed at her. Psychology is moronic.

[k]

Hi Katy, I am enjoying this conversation because it is challenging and I am learning much, so thank you.

I don't believe that Yeshua "amended" any of the law, he just explained it further.

If you look into the history of the Jews, you will find that most rabbis believe that no child had been put to death, because the requirements were to strict to have every disobedient child killed. From what I have understood, the parents had to prove that they had done everything to prevent their child from being disobedient.I do not know of anyplace in the N.T. where it is recorded that Jesus addressed Leviticus 20:9. I am in school and do study the history of the Torah, and one important thing I have learned is that since literacy was so rare and such an important aspect of their culture, if it was recorded it was happening, or had happened very recently. Many people try to rescue God's Word, be it from patriarchy or the blunt horrible violence that is in there. We have no real reason to believe that children were not put to death according to Lev. 20:9. Maybe we do not want to admit to ourselves the evils of the past. God knows we cannot even admit to the present horrible murders in Iraq and elsewhere.

Yeshua was G-d's son, we are G-d's children, that would make the man of Yeshua our brother.This is an interesting view but I think we share very different definitions of who Jesus is. I see Jesus as being Lord, He was God in human form for the sole purpose of our salvation. If Jesus is not the Savior then what is His purpose? As I see Jesus being Lord, I see that when He was here in the flesh, He was still our "Father," and He never struck anyone to correct them. Let me ask you this: Would it be okay for God to correct you by having another adult (Husband, Pastor, friend) physically strike you? If not, then the same should apply for all of God's children, not just the physically younger ones. Of course, we live in a culture that is ensconsed with double, triple standards and enough hypocrisy to make the most corrupt church leader blush on a Friday night, so this one particular double standard may not be as clear.

As far as spanking teaching violence... well, I have practical experience that shows a different result. My children do not use violence to solve problems, they may scream (3 yr. old) but they do not ever raise their hand to anyone, they don't bite, they don't push.I was not trying to say that every child that is spanked will use violence as conflict resolution. It teaches them violence, but it does not mean they will automatically use violence, just as when people are taught algebra that does not mean they will use it. But, if they are never taught it, chances are they will never use it for how can one utilize a tool she/he has never learned?

I confronted one of the bully's mother and asked her what she would do, she made it clear that she does not use any form of physical punishment and that this only teaches children to be violent. Her son, and other kids, pinned down my child and kicked him repeatedly, and yet their parents don't use any form of physical punishment.I am truly sorry your son has had to experience those things, and it must hurt and be frustrating for you. Those parents could use corporal punishment and their children would still do the same things. There is something seriously wrong when children do not respect their parents, and this is indicative of many things.

So the spanking=violence is truly a flawed concept. I am not saying that not spanking =violence. What I am saying is that for people to continuously say that if I spank my child then I am teaching violence, is not proven in my children's behavior.
I agree that spanking will not always lead a child into violence, but it does more often than not. I am saying that spanking is violence (there are many levels and degrees of violence) because whenever we physically strike another human being, well, that is a violent act, even when using restraint. Why do you think many people are arrested everyday on assault charges? The "assault" may not have done more than "sting" the victim, but it is still assault. I see the pivotal question as being this: If you yourself would submit to being physically struck as a form of correction, then by all means use it for your children. But, if you disagree with that, then how is it possibly okay for the gift of your children? I must reiterate I am in no way attacking you personally, for I am sure you are an awesome parent, but this is an important cultural issue, and it is my belief we will grow only through being challenged.

Take care,
Peace

[active ingredients]

my parents spanked me when I was little.....and I turned out ok

[~Mrs. A2J~]

We spank our daughter for direct defiance. There are so many kids out there who have no respect for authority let alone their parent's authority and I believe that if more parents spanked their children in discipline there would be less kids who grow up delinquent.

Sarah

[Katydid]

I do not know of anyplace in the N.T. where it is recorded that Jesus addressed Leviticus 20:9. I am in school and do study the history of the Torah, and one important thing I have learned is that since literacy was so rare and such an important aspect of their culture, if it was recorded it was happening, or had happened very recently. Many people try to rescue God's Word, be it from patriarchy or the blunt horrible violence that is in there. We have no real reason to believe that children were not put to death according to Lev. 20:9. Maybe we do not want to admit to ourselves the evils of the past. God knows we cannot even admit to the present horrible murders in Iraq and elsewhere.



Personally, you are right, I cannot imagine doing that to my children, but, perhaps society has changed. Even so, with that verse and command being there, don't you think the Jews did everything possible to prevent their child from becoming that kind of child. I can't explain all of scripture, but I do know that Yeshua didn't change any of it, "not one jot or tittle" I think is the exact phrase.


Would it be okay for God to correct you by having another adult (Husband, Pastor, friend) physically strike you? If not, then the same should apply for all of God's children, not just the physically younger ones

In all honesty, society does in a way use physical discipline. In mental institutions, they still use shock therapy, though more humane than they used to. Police, when arresting someone, will be really rough when putting handcuffs on. Prison work camps where physical labor is used as a disciplinary measure. It is all over adult society if the problem is severe enough. That is the key with spanking, if the problem is severe enough, then physical discipline is necessary.


It teaches them violence, but it does not mean they will automatically use violence, just as when people are taught algebra that does not mean they will use it. But, if they are never taught it, chances are they will never use it for how can one utilize a tool she/he has never learned?


This is the key, spanking is not violent. It is not used in a violent manner and my children do not equate it with a violent response. I am not yelling or angry when I spank, I tell them in all honesty that they need something to remind them that what they are doing is wrong. I had a discussion with my 7 yr. old about it and he said that it isn't a angry thing because I don't yell like his mom (he is my stepson). He thinks of the yelling and anger, and losing the temper as violence not a spank on his tushie. Verbally abusive parents may never raise a hand and teach their children more violence than a spanking parent does.


Those parents could use corporal punishment and their children would still do the same things.

If you would have said "could" instead of "would" then I would agree. But you made it an absolute, the sad thing is that this disagreement on these specific children will never be solved.


There is something seriously wrong when children do not respect their parents, and this is indicative of many things.

One of those and the most likely reason is that their parents don't demand respect. I know it sounds bad, but if the child gets the upper hand at 2 then they aren't going to respect you at 10.

but it does more often than not.
The study that showed this is flawed. They included children who had been violently abused, there is a huge difference. There have been studies that have been of children from loving stable homes, and they overwhelmingly showed that spanking does not lead to violence. They just weren't newsworthy as it didn't cause massive hysteria. It wouldn't sell for them to say something that everyone basically knew anyway so they waited for the one study to say what they wanted and then publicized it to an extreme.


how is it possibly okay for the gift of your children?

My responsibility to my children is to teach them how to behave in society. How to be examples of a godly lifestyle. I must teach them how to respect authority and submit to authority. If my child hits me, he will get a spanking. If I allow him to hit me with no consequences, THEN he will try to hit others, if still no consequences, then why stop doing what works. Whenever he wants something, he has learned from me, from schools, from society that it is OK to hit to get what you want. He will try to bully, and then he will learn the true consequences for that action when someone bigger and stronger truly injures him. I am protecting him from that by teaching him at the age of 2 that it is absolutely, undoubtably WRONG to strike someone. I am teaching him with a small sting, not a broken bone, which is what he might end up with if I leave it to someone much larger who doesn't care about him as I do. Real life consequence. If I hit someone, they will hit back. If I don't teach my children that smarting off is wrong and he gets away with it at a young age, then in school where they have very little power to discipline he gets away with it, the bigger he gets the worse it will get. They do not grow out of it, they are taught that it is wrong. What happens if I allow it to continue, then he smarts off to his employer, a police officer, any one in a position of authority and gets stuck with consequences far worse than a smack on his rear. I heard it said, and I believe it to my very core, "It is better to deal with tears now that you can kiss away, than to deal with tears later that noone can heal." I will give my kids those tears now to prevent them from having the tears that cannot heal.

[Katydid]

By the way, I am also enjoying this. Namely because if I can't defend my position in truth, then I need to look at changing it.

[DeusAmante]

Since most people (75%) voted in favor of spanking, this post may not be received very well...but this is a topic close to my heart and experience. If you cannot imagine Jesus doing it, then how can it possibly be justified? Let's call it what it is--violence--nothing more, nothing less.
Proverbs 13:24 "He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is careful to discipline him."

Proverbs 23:13-14 "Do not withhold discipline from a child; if you punish with the rod he will not die. Punish him with the rod and save his soul from death."

You really need to study the Word and look at it from a Biblical perspective. Spanking sometimes is the only way TO discipline a disobedient child, and I find NOTHING wrong with it, as long as it is done without malice and with love for that child.

In His Grip,
Hannah

[indeep]

I think that kids today don't get disciplined enough...

[k]

Hi Katy, hope all is well.


In all honesty, society does in a way use physical discipline. In mental institutions, they still use shock therapy, though more humane than they used to. Police, when arresting someone, will be really rough when putting handcuffs on. Prison work camps where physical labor is used as a disciplinary measure. It is all over adult society if the problem is severe enough. That is the key with spanking, if the problem is severe enough, then physical discipline is necessaryThe purpose of the question was not aimed at society in general, and in each of the above cited cases (except for labor camps), they are abuse, and how can we find a "more humane" way to electrically shock a human? Less amps? I seriously doubt the Holy Spirit leads anyone to use electric shock as discipline. The labor camp seems wholly out of context for the spanking discussion. That might be an idea though. Instead of spanking why not assign extra household chores? The question was aimed directly at you, at "Katy," so again I must ask, would it be okay for another adult to physically strike you as a form of discipline? As many times as the disciples messed up, did Jesus ever strike them for correction? The sarcasm is there to show, in my humble opinion, how flawed the double standard is for children, especially considering we are all children of God.

It is admirable you are in self control when you spank your children, for harsh words can hurt every bit as much, if not more, than a spanking. I see spanking as violence because it is physically striking another person, and even when it is done in moderation, that does not negate the fact it is hitting someone.

My responsibility to my children is to teach them how to behave in society. How to be examples of a godly lifestyle. I must teach them how to respect authority and submit to authority.You are right, it is an awesome responsibility, and no one is perfect, so we must do the best we are able with the tools we have. A question that comes to mind is this: When you are about to spank do you stop and take a few moments to go to your knees and seek the guidance of the Holy Spirit? I mean really, really do your best to listen? (If you have done this, and do this repeatedly, meaning before each time you spank, then please forgive me, I am not asking based on assumptions, it's just a curiosity.) Could it be that just as God has non-spanking ways of disciplining adults that God also has non-spanking ways of disciplining children?

Could it be that just as society has progressed beyond Lev. 20:9 that we are also to progress beyond Pr. 23:13-14?

Yes, we are to teach children respect and authority, no question about it, but there are many roads that lead to the same amusement park; some have less potholes, and it is my humble belief we are to do everything possible to find the best road, which means submitting to the Holy Spirit as often and as much as possible.

Thanks again for this dialogue for it is challenging and I am learning much.

Peace

[k]

Hello Hannah,

You really need to study the Word and look at it from a Biblical perspective. Spanking sometimes is the only way TO discipline a disobedient child...

Considering you know virtually nothing about me, it is important to understand that arrogance is a very unattractive quality in a Christian.

If you truly believe that spanking is "sometimes" the only way to discipline a disobedient child, then may I ask when was the last time you were spanked? You, like all of us, are a child of God are you not? You, like all of us, are disobedient for none of us is perfect. Your age is not on your post, and I am not even going to guess how young you are.

From a Biblical perspective: "If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death. He has cursed his father or his mother, and his blood will be on his own head." (Lev. 20:9)

So, should we have Capital Punishment for children?

Peace;)

[Mϋzikdϋde]

I was spanked so much as a kid I have no chooice but to believe in it. It was about as real as anything can be.

[Kristi1]

I voted ~> Abuse....

[princess_ballet]

I know many kids that could use a good spanking.

[AdJesumPerMariam]

We use spanking for "capital" offences.

[~Mrs. A2J~]

I voted ~> Abuse....
You said in your title "Love your Children". I believe we ARE loving our children by spanking them. By spanking them we are disciplining them and by disciplining them we show them that we love them enough to raise them up right. I'm not saying everyone NEEDS to spank their child (or use other forms of corporal punishment) but to say that parents who do are abusing their children is contradictory the Bible.

Proverbs 23
13 Do not withhold discipline from a child;
if you punish him with the rod, he will not die.
14 Punish him with the rod
and save his soul from death.

[k]

Why do so many people equate spanking with discipline? It seems some suggest children lack certain cognitive qualities which prevent them from processing the seriousness of their offense, thus "spanking" makes its appearance in order to 'reinforce' they will not do it again.

Hopefully, I am not the only one who battles certain issues on a regular basis, 'cause if I am, I need a muuuucchhh longer time out than any of the ones I've had. Scripture tells us God disciplines God's children, meaning all of us, from 1 to 101. In fact, it goes so far to say God disciplines those whom are loved. When was the last time any of us were spanked at church, or at home in order to help us understand the seriousness of our sins? Just as children do not understand the things we do, we do not understand the things God does. So why doesn't God have any of us adults spanked? Aren't our offenses much more serious since we do have much more understanding than children?

Maybe God does not love us, and that is why we are not spanked when we are disciplined by God? OR--God DOES love us and that is EXACTLY why God does not use people to spank us when we mess up.

Peace

[Katydid]

Instead of spanking why not assign extra household chores?
Done it. One thing you need to realize that is different with spanking parents, is that we use many forms of discipline in which spanking is only one of.


The question was aimed directly at you, at "Katy," so again I must ask, would it be okay for another adult to physically strike you as a form of discipline?

If for some crazy reason, I was out there hitting and beating up on people, then by all means YES!!! If I was trying to harm others then YES!!! If I was about to get hit by a truck YES!!!! These are all reasons that I spank my children for, and yes, if I were doing these things, I would definately expect to be hit.


A question that comes to mind is this: When you are about to spank do you stop and take a few moments to go to your knees and seek the guidance of the Holy Spirit? I mean really, really do your best to listen? (If you have done this, and do this repeatedly, meaning before each time you spank, then please forgive me, I am not asking based on assumptions, it's just a curiosity.) Could it be that just as God has non-spanking ways of disciplining adults that God also has non-spanking ways of disciplining children?


I have prayed numerous times before I spank. I have prayed for guidance and patience and the self control I need. I have prayed that I am bringing my children up right. I also speak with my children before and after each spanking if possible.

and it is my humble belief we are to do everything possible to find the best road, which means submitting to the Holy Spirit as often and as much as possible.

You are absolutely right. The thing to realize is that without using spanking as a discipline in our house, there would be constant tension. Constant correction. Constant anger. With spanking, the children listen, they obey and we have a peaceful home (well as peaceful as a home with three children can be). We have a happy home. My children feel free to express themselves, and have been taught the proper way to do so.


It seems some suggest children lack certain cognitive qualities which prevent them from processing the seriousness of their offense, thus "spanking" makes its appearance in order to 'reinforce' they will not do it again.


When was the last time you saw a 18 month old stop and consider what the consequences to running into the street were? They cannot process that. A simple swat on their behind when they start to run, and they remember that. I know it works, I have watched it work. They cannot comprehend many of the dangers that they could get into, a sting is one thing they do remember.

When was the last time any of us were spanked at church, or at home in order to help us understand the seriousness of our sins?

Once again I will say that even though we are ALL G-d's children, we are not all 0-10 years old. You cannot deal with an adult like you deal with children, it does not work. Children cannot read sins and always understand the consequences. They cannot make decisions considering all the information. These are things that adults need to be responsible for, they are things that we are capable of being responsible. Here is a question for you along the same lines you are asking. When was the last time your husband added chores for you to do as a discipline, or put you in the corner, or gave you a time out, or sat you down and lectured you about why what you were doing was wrong, or took away your allowance, or took away your driving priveledges, or took away your tv priveledges, or the phone, or the computer? If these to not compare into adulthood then neither can spanking.

[k]

Done it. One thing you need to realize that is different with spanking parents, is that we use many forms of discipline in which spanking is only one of.Understood. Have you tried phasing out spanking by increasing the severity of the other forms?

If for some crazy reason, I was out there hitting and beating up on people, then by all means YES!!! If I was trying to harm others then YES!!! If I was about to get hit by a truck YES!!!! These are all reasons that I spank my children for, and yes, if I were doing these things, I would definately expect to be hit.The question was not meant to apply kids' misbehavior to your own misbehavior. Your kid's hitting people, so you hit your kid to express hitting people is wrong? Please understand I am not trying to be sarcastic in any way, but merely reflecting what I am reading. Conceding you are not doing 'those things' what about the things you do do? When you misbehave it may not be the same actions as your kids, but it is in violation of God, just as your kid's behavior is in violation of you. So why use a punishment on your children that God does not use on you?

I have prayed numerous times before I spank. I have prayed for guidance and patience and the self control I need. I have prayed that I am bringing my children up right. I also speak with my children before and after each spanking if possible.If you need self control in spanking, that is a danger/warning sign that you shouldn't be spanking at all. It's the same principle in any area of life. If one needs self control in drinking, drugs, shopping too much, etc. then that is an indicator of something much deeper. Please pray more, and do not stop.

When was the last time you saw a 18 month old stop and consider what the consequences to running into the street were? They cannot process that. A simple swat on their behind when they start to run, and they remember that. I know it works, I have watched it work. They cannot comprehend many of the dangers that they could get into, a sting is one thing they do remember.I stated in earlier posts that spanking should cease when a child has reached full communication ability. There is nothing wrong with patting a child that young for that is all they are able to understand. Once they are able to communicate the reason for spanking is replaced by the two way talking.

Once again I will say that even though we are ALL G-d's children, we are not all 0-10 years old.
It feels as though the quote you took from my post is lacking its context with scripture and seems to ignore the argument about God disciplining those God loves.

When was the last time your husband added chores for you to do as a discipline, or put you in the corner, or gave you a time out, or sat you down and lectured you about why what you were doing was wrong, or took away your allowance, or took away your driving priveledges, or took away your tv priveledges, or the phone, or the computer? If these to not compare into adulthood then neither can spanking.
I concede different disciplinary action at different ages. Spouses lecture each other all the time about what they are doing wrong; people just call it 'communicating':)

Peace

[Qidron]

Spanking is meant to be discipline...according to the Bible. It even states that fathers might spank in anger, but Father God does not...but He DOES spank us...as adults. He expects...according to scripture...that parents will spank their children.

I was never spanked or smacked. When we had children we did what we thought was right according to the Word and I have to admit there was anger in the spankings quite often. We had 14 children..12 are sons...and it got quite roudy. I really don't like to spank. And now that the youngest are 12, we just are too tired to spank. Maybe the Lord is about to spank us to get us on track again. I am most willing to be corrected in any way He sees fit.

[k]

Spanking is meant to be discipline...according to the Bible. It even states that fathers might spank in anger, but Father God does not...but He DOES spank us...as adults. He expects...according to scripture...that parents will spank their children.


There are a ton of things we could justify by saying "...according to the Bible." Does not mean they are Holy Spirit led, or right in God's eyes. No one has yet to respond to the many times I have posted Lev. 20:9. I guess the Fundamentalist approach is only appropriate when it is in line with one's own desire.

God does not spank us because to be "spanked" means to be physically struck. I think I understand what you are trying to say, but when something is stretched too far, it is broken. God does not physically strike us to discipline us.

We had 14 children..12 are sons...and it got quite roudy. I really don't like to spank. And now that the youngest are 12, we just are too tired to spank. Maybe the Lord is about to spank us to get us on track again. I am most willing to be corrected in any way He sees fit.

WOW!! That must have been an awesome challenge! I am in awe of your family and grateful for your dedication to Christ. I am not attacking anyone on the personal level for spanking, but rather looking at it in the broader context as an institution, because that is what it is.

Peace

[Qidron]

Neverstop,

Thanx for your post. I'm not sure what you want me to say about Lev. 20.9. I suppose you are saying...if we are supposed to actually use the rod on our children, then we should also expect to stone them for cursing their parents. Well, my heart aches when one of my children behaves with this kind of attitude, because I know they are walking a thin line in God's sight. This would begin to separate them from God which IS death...and they ARE responsible for that.

I do believe when it comes to the young ones, a swat on the behind can save them from catastrophe. But, like I said, I don't spank anymore, we try to work problems out with our sons...and they are not defying us so that we'd have to spank them for their own good. If they were, we would spank. The older ones will answer to God for their behavior.

You don't think Father God spanks us...and well, maybe He doesn't. He's ALWAYS been gentle with me. But some of the situations we find ourselves in sure do feel like a swat...and they do tend to turn us around.

I do not advocate beating anyone...so if that's what it sounded like, please understand that's not at all acceptable...and anger has to be out of the picture when disciplining a child. Father is loving and we HAVE to be also.

[Katydid]

Understood. Have you tried phasing out spanking by increasing the severity of the other forms?



This is the plan. I do not intend to be spanking my 16 yr. old kids. As they understand more, then talking becomes more of it. Other disciplines become more effective.


So why use a punishment on your children that God does not use on you?


Because my spirit does not reside in my children telling them right from wrong. Becuase unlike me, my children have not CHOSEN to follow me. Because unlike me, my children are totally self-centered as every child that is born is. Because unlike me, my children do not have a concious that is mature enough to convict them when they misbehave. How do I know this? Because my children lie to me when they think they will get out of trouble. Because my children will find something they know is wrong and continuously do it to see if I will let my guard down. Because my children's favorite word is "mine".



Your kid's hitting people, so you hit your kid to express hitting people is wrong?

Put it the way you do and it sounds ridiculous, but, spanking a child for hitting is effective regardless of how it sounds.

If you need self control in spanking, that is a danger/warning sign that you shouldn't be spanking at all. It's the same principle in any area of life. If one needs self control in drinking, drugs, shopping too much, etc. then that is an indicator of something much deeper. Please pray more, and do not stop.

Have your children ever purposefully pushed your buttons? I know my children do. If I didn't pray for self control, then you should worry. I pray for self control to ensure that I don't loose my temper, not because I am losing my temper.

I stated in earlier posts that spanking should cease when a child has reached full communication ability. There is nothing wrong with patting a child that young for that is all they are able to understand. Once they are able to communicate the reason for spanking is replaced by the two way talking.

OK well, now how do we decide when they have reached their full communication ability. My stepson reads on a fourth grade level, but his comprehension is not that good. He understands many of the concepts that I am providing but understanding why being disrespectful is wrong is still beyond his level of comprehension. Understanding why bullying his brother is wrong is still beyond him. Then you take a person with a child who has some disability and his comprehension is well below his physical age. How do we determine at what age a full communication ability is?



It feels as though the quote you took from my post is lacking its context with