Backslidding

[cristianna]

I'd be interested in hearing anyone's views on something. And unfortunately I cannot locate the exact scripture. I'm certain someone will know what I'm talking about. And may even point out that my aging memory is failing me resulting in mixing up the wording which could very well be why I can't locate it. :P


If scripture says something like: one who finds the glories of God cannot turn away from Him (go easy because now I'm almost positive I probably have it wrong)... then how did Judas fall?

I'm in no way doubting the scripture; quite possibly my take on it. But I also look at it from the viewpoint of others in real life who vary in many areas from age, social status, background, etc., who at one time in their life were believers and have choosen to walk away.

[Marycita]

I believe it is possible to backslide ...


but...:sorry:


I may be the only person in the world who thinks this..but ..I don't think Judas actually fell...in fact, I reckon he's in heaven

:sorry:

anyway - on the backsliding thing...I'll look for the scriptures but I ahve to get to sleep - I have to wake up at the crack o' dawn :P

[Maverick3000]

but...:sorry:


I may be the only person in the world who thinks this..but ..I don't think Judas actually fell...in fact, I reckon he's in heaven

:sorry:

You aren't. Numerous gnostics and other groups believe Judas was just fulfilling the prophecy.

[tpony298]

Is
Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
Heb 6:7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
Heb 6:8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.
Heb 6:9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.
Heb 6:10 For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.
Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
Heb 6:12 That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.
this what you are looking for?

[tpony298]

There are two theories..one says we can backslide, and some of them believe that if we do backslide we cannot return to our faith.:

Then there is eternal security.. which say once saved always saved.
pony

[tpony298]

here are the complete works of John Wesley if your interested in his opinions;

http://www.godrules.net/library/wesley/wesley.htm

Pony

[tpony298]

http://www.gotquestions.org/

has writings 0n Eternal security
.pony

[tpony298]

one more post and I will have 500 posts...Now If I can find 17 blessings I can go into the readjustment with 500.each..lol....pony

[cristianna]

Yes! :clap: That is the scripture I was referring to! Thank you!


And thank you for the links too.


Happy 500 posts! :clap:

[Marycita]

You aren't. Numerous gnostics and other groups believe Judas was just fulfilling the prophecy.


It's not because I believe he was just fulfilling prophecy,but hey :P

Is
Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
Heb 6:7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
Heb 6:8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.
Heb 6:9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.
Heb 6:10 For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.
Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
Heb 6:12 That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.
this what you are looking for?

thats' the one I was thinking of too

[tpony298]

Glad to be able to help...love, pony

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

Is
Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance;
Just because it bes impossible for you (or others) to so renew them does not mean it bes impossible for God ...
Mark 10:26-27

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

If backsliding meant one could never return to faith then God would be a hypocrite ....
Matthew 18:21-22
Would Christ teach this and not do it Himself? :scratch:

[RadicallyTransformedMom]

I have to agree with Moriah that the Hebrew scripture is referring to us not being able to go back to God on our own, but all things are possible with God. I do believe that one can walk away from God and i do believe God can bring them back...i know from personal experience. After being a Christian for a few years i walked away from God completely and back into a life of sin for 3 yrs. God pulled me back..he called me back.

We were just talking about this the other night at my church small group. The Nazarene belief is not "once saved always saved" like the Baptist belief. I am quite certain that the Methodists believe the same as Nazarenes on this and that you can reject God willfully even after you have come to him. There is a scripture..(i cant remember where right now) that says "work out your salvation with fear and trembling". Our salvation isnt a one day deal. We have free will, we need to CHOOSE to follow God and continue repenting when we sin, and he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins. Its a daily walk with God throughout our life.

[tpony298]

Dear Rad. Trans. Mom. Is this the scripture you are talkinng about?

Phi 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
If so, may I suggest you read the whole chapter for a little more understanding on the verse. Pony

[dan p]

1) Where is backsliding found ?

2) Look at Prov 14:14 here Israel is filled with his own ways

3)In Jer 2:19 Israel's wickeness shall correct thee, and thy BACKSLIDINGS shall reprove thee, know therefore and see that it is evil thing and bitter, that thou has forsaken the Lord thy nGod

4) Jer 3:8 and I saw, when for all the causes whereby BACKSLIDING Israel committed adultery I put here away, and gave here a bill of divorce,

5) Does God give us a bill of divorce ? I don't think so.

6) What happens in Jer 5:6, a lion out of the forest shall slay them, a leopard shall watch over them in their cities , and anyone leaving shall be torn in pieces for their backslidings.

7) Read Jer8:12 Israel would not even blush

8) Jer 31:22 and 49:4 and Hosea 4:16 -19 , for Israel slideth back as a backsliding heifer

9) No where does the Apostle Paul CALL the Body of Christ a backsliding or a backslider as is found in the Old Testament, for this describes Israel and NOT US.

[RadicallyTransformedMom]

Dear Rad. Trans. Mom. Is this the scripture you are talkinng about?

Phi 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
If so, may I suggest you read the whole chapter for a little more understanding on the verse. Pony

i guess i am not sure what i am supposed to understand??:confused: help

[RadicallyTransformedMom]

1) Where is backsliding found ?

2) Look at Prov 14:14 here Israel is filled with his own ways

3)In Jer 2:19 Israel's wickeness shall correct thee, and thy BACKSLIDINGS shall reprove thee, know therefore and see that it is evil thing and bitter, that thou has forsaken the Lord thy nGod

4) Jer 3:8 and I saw, when for all the causes whereby BACKSLIDING Israel committed adultery I put here away, and gave here a bill of divorce,

5) Does God give us a bill of divorce ? I don't think so.

6) What happens in Jer 5:6, a lion out of the forest shall slay them, a leopard shall watch over them in their cities , and anyone leaving shall be torn in pieces for their backslidings.

7) Read Jer8:12 Israel would not even blush

8) Jer 31:22 and 49:4 and Hosea 4:16 -19 , for Israel slideth back as a backsliding heifer

9) No where does the Apostle Paul CALL the Body of Christ a backsliding or a backslider as is found in the Old Testament, for this describes Israel and NOT US.

i guess i am a bit confused based on my own experience. If we can't backslide then what do you call a Christian that was saved and walking with God for a few years that turns their back on God and lives a life full of sin for 3 yrs and then eventually repents and turns completely back to God and continues walking with him for many years? That was me.

[GraceSeeker]

9) No where does the Apostle Paul CALL the Body of Christ a backsliding or a backslider as is found in the Old Testament, for this describes Israel and NOT US.And then Paul also talks about the Church as the new Israel.

We find the church (or individuals within it) "going astray" in Hebrews 5:2, needing to learn the elementary truths "all over again" (Hebrews 5:12). Indeed there is a warning about how those who "fall away" (Hebrews 6:6) might find it impossible to be brought back. Hebrews 10 is basically a treatise on the person who has come to faith and then walks aways from it.