New CF Statement of Faith

[MrJim]

New Vision & Rules & Statement of Faith

Link (http://christianforums.com/t7207259-vision-tagline-sof-and-revised-promotion-rule.html)


CF statement of faith: This is the basis of which our non-promotion rule is based upon, and is the baseline for forum-specific guidelines. An individual forum can use the Nicene Creed without asterisks, a confession of faith, or other statements, provided such is an expansion of the CF statement of faith. However, forum-specific guidelines must not conflict with the CF Statement of Faith.

CF supports the following as a statement of faith

We worship one God, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (Isaiah 44:6-8; Exodus 3:15). God is three divine persons, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, who share one essence--the Trinity (John 6:27; John 1:1, 14; Romans 8:9; Hebrews 1:2-3).

Our Lord, God and Savior, Jesus Christ, the incarnate second person of the Holy Trinity, fully God and fully man (John 1:1, 14), was conceived in time by the power of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary (Luke 1: 35) and existed before all time begotten of God the Father (John 1: 2; John 1: 18). He was crucified for our sins, died, was buried, resurrected on the third day (1 Corinthians 15: 3-4) and is seated at the right hand of the Father (Mark 16: 19). Jesus is the Christ, the Messiah (John 1:49; Matthew 16:16). His coming was foretold by the prophets of the Old Testament (Acts 3:18-23). He shall come again with glory to judge the living and the dead (Acts 10: 42) and His Kingdom will have no end (2 Peter 1: 11)

[PaladinGirl]

I don't like it. We should have just stuck with the Nicene Creed.

[Anglian]

Whilst there is nothing in the CF statement to which one can object, I rather sympathise with PaladinGirl. We've had a perfectly good Creed for ages, but I suppose it is characteristic of modern man to think he has to fix something which isn't broken.

Anglian

[Hentenza]

New Vision & Rules & Statement of Faith

Link (http://christianforums.com/t7207259-vision-tagline-sof-and-revised-promotion-rule.html)


CF statement of faith: This is the basis of which our non-promotion rule is based upon, and is the baseline for forum-specific guidelines. An individual forum can use the Nicene Creed without asterisks, a confession of faith, or other statements, provided such is an expansion of the CF statement of faith. However, forum-specific guidelines must not conflict with the CF Statement of Faith.

CF supports the following as a statement of faith

We worship one God, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (Isaiah 44:6-8; Exodus 3:15). God is three divine persons, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, who share one essence--the Trinity (John 6:27; John 1:1, 14; Romans 8:9; Hebrews 1:2-3).

Our Lord, God and Savior, Jesus Christ, the incarnate second person of the Holy Trinity, fully God and fully man (John 1:1, 14), was conceived in time by the power of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary (Luke 1: 35) and existed before all time begotten of God the Father (John 1: 2; John 1: 18). He was crucified for our sins, died, was buried, resurrected on the third day (1 Corinthians 15: 3-4) and is seated at the right hand of the Father (Mark 16: 19). Jesus is the Christ, the Messiah (John 1:49; Matthew 16:16). His coming was foretold by the prophets of the Old Testament (Acts 3:18-23). He shall come again with glory to judge the living and the dead (Acts 10: 42) and His Kingdom will have no end (2 Peter 1: 11)

I like it!!!:thumbsup::wave:

[PaladinGirl]

Whilst there is nothing in the CF statement to which one can object, I rather sympathise with PaladinGirl. We've had a perfectly good Creed for ages, but I suppose it is characteristic of modern man to think he has to fix something which isn't broken.

Anglian

Yes it is and that is rather unfortunate. I personally don't see what was wrong with having the Nicene Creed as the statement of faith.

[Nadiine]

Whilst there is nothing in the CF statement to which one can object, I rather sympathise with PaladinGirl. We've had a perfectly good Creed for ages, but I suppose it is characteristic of modern man to think he has to fix something which isn't broken.

Anglian
Ya, I'd say it was at least more thorough than this. This one only seems to cover a Trinity --- the rest is just ignored.

One thing is true, you cannot please everybody in a forum no matter what creed you choose or what you make up. But you'de at least want to please as many as possible who are your Christian base.

It's really no wonder so many left this place permanently; they continually change this site & the foundations of it.
oh well.

[nzguy]

Do you know the earliest creed had no 'catholic' in it?

i.e. it had the holy church.. not the holy 'catholic' church

[MrJim]

Do you know the earliest creed had no 'catholic' in it?

i.e. it had the holy church.. not the holy 'catholic' church

can you post/source that creed?

[JPPT1974]

You can't please everybody
All you can do is worry about yourself
Though I feel like I have to worry about what others thing.

[PaladinGirl]

You know, I just looked over the statement of faith and I must say that I do agree with it. It is thoroughly Biblical and is a good statement of faith. The Nicene Creed was probably a little bit controversial because of the "one, holy, catholic, and apostolic" part. That and the "We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins." part was probably somewhat controversial as well. After all, we are not baptized for the forgiveness of sins. Baptism is a symbol of our new life in Christ.

[Izdaari]

Yeah, it'll be fine. It covers all the essentials and leaves out the non-essentials. I have no problem with the Nicene Creed myself, but some might who'd be able to agree to this one.

[rmw8855]

The individual congregational forums can still use the Nicene creed in their FSG :)

[Nadiine]

The individual congregational forums can still use the Nicene creed in their FSG :)
yes basically about the only place Christians are "safe" are in their congregational areas... as much as I like the people here, CF has essentially lost alot of its Christian base (partly due to errosion of definition) - and theology areas look like what I find in Atheist/secular forums anymore.

[cbreviews]

You know, I just looked over the statement of faith and I must say that I do agree with it. It is thoroughly Biblical and is a good statement of faith. The Nicene Creed was probably a little bit controversial because of the "one, holy, catholic, and apostolic" part. That and the "We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins." part was probably somewhat controversial as well. After all, we are not baptized for the forgiveness of sins. Baptism is a symbol of our new life in Christ.


There was no controversy over the Nicene Creed on the points you mentioned. The Church had been called catholic since the late first century to differentiate it from gnostic and other heretical groups who were forming on their own and calling themselves Christian. It referred to the univerality of the faith from the time of Christ and its foundation laid down by Christ and the Apostles.

I would also point out that your view of baptism is also one they did not share. That is a rather modern invention that is not supported by history.

[cbreviews]

Do you know the earliest creed had no 'catholic' in it?

i.e. it had the holy church.. not the holy 'catholic' church

The first creed accepted by the whole Church was that of the Council of Nicea and that did include the word "catholic". There is no controversy to that term - it has been used since the first century and was already in the writings of St. Igantius of Antioch (ca. 125 A.D.).

[JoabAnias]

Yeah, it'll be fine. It covers all the essentials and leaves out the non-essentials. I have no problem with the Nicene Creed myself, but some might who'd be able to agree to this one.

Who determines what is or isn't essential?

[Nadiine]

Who determines what is or isn't essential?
if NOONE does, there remains no definition of what a "Christian" is other than anyone claiming to be one.... (which even the bible refutes by saying that just becuz one claims to be of God, doesn't mean they actually are and will be cast out).
Without central essentials of the faith (ANY faith), it becomes relative and subjective and noone can know what one is or needs to believe of God or truth, because it could be anything according to everyone's interpretation.

What I find is the bigger problem is that people do a much better job interpreting secular literature for what it says and relays. Pick up a Bible and watch them start interpreting according to preferences rather than common understanding.

2 Tim 4
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires,
4 and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths.

Titus 1:9 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=63&chapter=1&verse=9&version=49&context=verse)
holding fast the faithful word which is in accordance with the teaching, so that he will be able both to exhort in sound doctrine and to refute those who contradict.

Matthew 22:29 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=22&verse=29&version=49&context=verse)
But Jesus answered and said to them, "You are mistaken, not understanding the Scriptures nor the power of God.


(since the authors define that there is right and wrong doctrine and to correct & refute the false, there IS a teaching standard given, it's not unknowable).

[Izdaari]

Who determines what is or isn't essential?
I wasn't making any official determination for the whole of Christendom or something, just giving my opinion. And who determines my opinion? I do of course. ^_^

Ok, I guess I owe you a better answer than that. I guess what you're wanting to know is: Who is my final authority? I use a little thing called the Wesleyan Quadrilateral (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wesleyan_Quadrilateral).

The Wesleyan Quadrilateral is a methodology for theological reflection (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_theology) that is credited to John Wesley (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Wesley), leader of the Methodist movement (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methodism) in the late 18th Century. The term itself was coined by 20th century American Methodist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Methodist_Church) Albert C. Outler (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_C._Outler) in his introduction to the 1964 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1964) collection John Wesley (ISBN 0-19-502810-4 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:BookSources/0195028104)).

Upon examination of Wesley's work, Outler theorized that Wesley used four different sources in coming to theological conclusions. The four sources are:


Scripture - the Holy Bible (Old and New Testaments)
Tradition - the two millennia history of the Christian Church
Reason - rational thinking and sensible interpretation
Experience - a Christian's personal and communal journey in Christ

In practice, at least one of the Wesleyan denominations, The United Methodist Church (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Methodist_Church), asserts that “Wesley believed that the living core of the Christian faith was revealed in Scripture, illumined by tradition, vivified in personal experience, and confirmed by reason. Scripture [however] is primary, revealing the Word of God ‘so far as it is necessary for our salvation.’” (The Book of Discipline of the United Methodist Church (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Book_of_Discipline_of_the_United_Methodist_Church)-2004, p. 77).

I'm not a Methodist, but for that purpose, I guess I might as well be. And my AG church does come down from Methodist roots.

[JoabAnias]

Ah, very well.

Maybe the question should have been -for rhetorical purposes only, how do we know who defines the essentials are correct?

Thats something I think about often.

Thanks for the answers.

[FundamentalistJohn]

If they didn't like the Nicene they could have gone with the Apostles Creed.

[PaladinGirl]

If they didn't like the Nicene they could have gone with the Apostles Creed.

Yes, but even the Apostle's Creed makes reference to the Church being "catholic". This would be controversial for a forum where not all the members of the forum are Catholic. And yes, I do know that "catholic" in this sense means universal.

I believe in God, the Father Almighty,
the Creator of heaven and earth,
and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord:
Who was conceived of the Holy Spirit,
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried.
He descended into hell.

The third day He arose again from the dead.
He ascended into heaven
and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty,
whence He shall come to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy *catholic church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and life everlasting.
Amen.

Emphasis in bold mine.

Other than that, I find the Apostle's Creed to be a good creed.

[ImmersionX]

This works fine to justify having a subforum for Word of Faith folks. It is non-specific about a lot of things....so it will justify having them here. To me that's a cop out. Due to the fact that there is a heretical WoF subforum in a "Christian Forum" to begin with makes me not take any "statement of faith" by CF seriously

Peace.

[Teh0bb3s]

2/50

[Teh0bb3s]

16/50 No witty comment, sorry.

[Leimeng]

This works fine to justify having a subforum for Word of Faith folks. It is non-specific about a lot of things....so it will justify having them here. To me that's a cop out. Due to the fact that there is a heretical WoF subforum in a "Christian Forum" to begin with makes me not take any "statement of faith" by CF seriously

Peace.

~ Of course we could also talk about the heretical Calvinist, the heretical Cessationist, the Heretical King James Only Cult, the heretical Baptismal Regenerationists, and any of your other favorite pet objects of hate.
~ The so called Word Faith folk are probably amongst the most conservative groups around. The doctrine of fear and doubt types though are a mixed bunch at best.
~ Continue to discuss amongst yourselves...

Peace,

Leimeng

Flatulo Ergo Sum ~~~

[JPPT1974]

Look no further than John 3:16-17
My friends as the the main verse
Right there!

[Addicted2~Jesus]

You will know them by thier fruit..........

anythin an everthin else is jes a waste of time an a source of stupidity in my opinion... jes another wall folks can build to divide us from each other..... the bride of Christ.....

Hence... why I don't bother wit this place much anymore, not this subfourm mind you, jes the whole cf.com stuff..... jes too out there for me...