If Christian majorities controlled civil laws.... what would they be?

[Nadiine]

We often complain about the immoral laws and corrupt system we live in; socially & politically....

but
IF we were all born again Christians and ran our own politics for the States we live in, what kind of civil laws would we want to create?
Would we make make fornication illegal? Living together? Would adultery be illegal? Would porn & strip clubs be illegal? Would we forbidding divorce except for biblical reasons? etc.?
What type of penalties would we attach to these laws?

In a "perfect world scenario" of a Christian majority, and if Christians were our politicans, how would we want our cities & states run in accordance w/ God's commands?

*(also posted in Non Denominational Congregation)

[MrJim]

It would be a bigger mess than it is now~the perfect world is heaven.

This is closely related to the thread about christians having different interpretation if lead by the same Spirit. Christians can barely agree on basics and everything else is like, well, everything else here at CF: Beautiful people vehemently disagreeing on what the Bible says.

Consider the "Founding Fathers"~many were Christians, yet still thought it fine to keep slaves in chains and men only as legitimate voters.

It reinforces to me the nature of the Church in this world~a Church that does not seek its own, does not seek power and force, but is the Body of Christ ministering to a broken world.

[Nadiine]

It would be a bigger mess than it is now~the perfect world is heaven.

This is closely related to the thread about christians having different interpretation if lead by the same Spirit. Christians can barely agree on basics and everything else is like, well, everything else here at CF: Beautiful people vehemently disagreeing on what the Bible says.

Consider the "Founding Fathers"~many were Christians, yet still thought it fine to keep slaves in chains and men only as legitimate voters.

It reinforces to me the nature of the Church in this world~a Church that does not seek its own, does not seek power and force, but is the Body of Christ ministering to a broken world.
I'm not so sure that this is closely related to believing different doctrines/scriptures by the same Spirit.

I think we all complain about how immoral & corrupt things are yet we don 't offer solutions to the problems.
Our solution is basically to 'not allow it legally' becuz it's corrupting society - yet if we had a majority how would we as Christians seek to get a less immoral society?

In my mind, I was going more at, we complain about it now, but what is our own solution AS Christians?
So I think this would be a good way to explore alternatives to what we have now.

[MrJim]

But consider how it would devolve~take a tiny little example like "graven images". Now you know there'll be a contingent of Christians that say to honor God there can be no graven images in the country, for it would be dishonoring to God, and for God to bless the US we have to honor Him in all ways...next thing you know a wrecking ball will be parked outside the Lincoln Memorial...

[Izdaari]

(essentially the same answer I posted to the same topic in ND)

If Christians had all the political power, I would still want a limited constitutional republic (never mind how far away from that we've gotten) that does for the people only what they cannot do for themselves via the free market and voluntary associations. Neither should it determine their religion or their morals. That's not what government is for, it's what families and churches are for. In my view, government should be a referee only, not a player in the game.

And further, if we grant the assumption that we're all actually believing Christians, and not merely that believing Christians have the political power, there would be no need for any such laws.

I think we all complain about how immoral & corrupt things are yet we don 't offer solutions to the problems.
Our solution is basically to 'not allow it legally' becuz it's corrupting society - yet if we had a majority how would we as Christians seek to get a less immoral society?

In my mind, I was going more at, we complain about it now, but what is our own solution AS Christians?
So I think this would be a good way to explore alternatives to what we have now.
Ok, now that I know what you had in mind... :cool:

My answer is to do nothing at all about it by means of government, but to try to change society one person, one soul, at a time by means of living a good example a la St. Francis ("Preach the Gospel at all times... and if you must, use words"; also "There's no use walking anywhere to preach unless your walking is your preaching."), and by gentle persuasion.

[Criada]

I agree.
Changing laws doesn't change people... however good the law, people will still break it!

[paxi1334]

Maybe its best to see laws as necessary in restraining evil (keeping it from going haywire) and not as the way to legislate morality or change people?

Thus, does the solution to abortion, sexual immorality, etc. reside in changing the hearts of people?
In other words, should conservatives focus less on politics and more on evangelism?

{I ask these questions honestly in a spirit of fellowship}

[MrJim]

Maybe its best to see laws as necessary in restraining evil (keeping it from going haywire) and not as the way to legislate morality or change people?

Thus, does the solution to abortion, sexual immorality, etc. reside in changing the hearts of people?
In other words, should conservatives focus less on politics and more on evangelism?

{I ask these questions honestly in a spirit of fellowship}

:wave:
The argument that comes up is in defining the evil that is in itself a moral judgment call...

[Rhamiel]

well abortion would be illegal, that would be for sure, I do not know if it would be good to only grant a divorce for biblical reasons, but at least make it harder to get divorces, people would not be forced to be christian but we would not have the public schools be anti-christian like they are now, so bring back prayer in school and maybe more high school elective classes for those interested in the christian faith.
More help for the poor and homeless, not like modern welefare that just keeps people locked in the system.
Laws agianst preditory loaning.
um... not to be biased, but in a lot of ways it would looks like catholic nations 40 years ago, (Ireland and Argentina specificly)

[Rhamiel]

would you like to see the end of predatory lending if it was a "christian nation"?

[Izdaari]

would you like to see the end of predatory lending if it was a "christian nation"?
There are a lot of things I'd like to see the end of, that I would not use government to end. Again, I don't see government as a legitimate player in the game, but only as a referee. I would use government to stop "predatory lending" only to the extent that fraudulent or deceptive practices are involved.

[MrJim]

Libertarian is an optimistic look a man~guess I'm more pessimistic about these sorts of things...

[Rhamiel]

I like Libertarian ideas, I do not know if I would want a totaly libertarian government, but I wish they were a bigger player so they could atleast mellow the two parties out a little bit.
But I do not know if a libertarian government could be called "Christian" with the amount of freedom for people to hurt others and hurt themselves (drugs, predatory lending) are not loveing aways to deal with people.

[MrJim]

I like Libertarian ideas, I do not know if I would want a totaly libertarian government, but I wish they were a bigger player so they could atleast mellow the two parties out a little bit.
But I do not know if a libertarian government could be called "Christian" with the amount of freedom for people to hurt others and hurt themselves (drugs, predatory lending) are not loveing aways to deal with people.

There seems to be a basic trust that people fair and just and can make their own decisions and should have the "liberty" to do as they see fit in their own eyes; just how I'm seeing it.

[Simon_Templar]

We often complain about the immoral laws and corrupt system we live in; socially & politically....

but
IF we were all born again Christians and ran our own politics for the States we live in, what kind of civil laws would we want to create?
Would we make make fornication illegal? Living together? Would adultery be illegal? Would porn & strip clubs be illegal? Would we forbidding divorce except for biblical reasons? etc.?
What type of penalties would we attach to these laws?

In a "perfect world scenario" of a Christian majority, and if Christians were our politicans, how would we want our cities & states run in accordance w/ God's commands?

*(also posted in Non Denominational Congregation)
The reality of the situation is that if we were a Christian nation, we wouldn't need to make restrictive 'christian' laws.

And if we aren't a Christian nation, trying to pass Christian laws is useless anyway.

The first thing that would have to be restored is the understanding that it is the government's duty to encourage religion and morality, specifically Christian religion and morality. Not to legislate them, but to encourage them in the people.
Freedom depends entirely upon the character of the people. Further it has only ever been provided by the framework of Christianity.

As we drift further and further into post-Christian status, we will become less and less free.

however, legislating Christianity is not the answer and it will not work. The only way to restore the society is to capture the hearts and minds of the people. That can only be done in one of two ways.
#1 mass revival like the great awakenings.
#2 the same way we have lost our society in the fist place, by controling what is taught in schools.

a famous quote
"the philosophy of the school room in one generation will be the philosophy of government in the next".

We have gotten to the place we are at because for 100 years or more there has been a concerted effort to change society through what has been taught in schools.

[Simon_Templar]

Libertarian is an optimistic look a man~guess I'm more pessimistic about these sorts of things...
libertarian ideas only work with a certain kind of population. Which is exactly what the founders said about the government they created.

Free societies only work if the people are morally good.

[Nadiine]

libertarian ideas only work with a certain kind of population. Which is exactly what the founders said about the government they created.

Free societies only work if the people are morally good.
that might be true - I've always said that there's a flaw in the laws of having everyone free to equally pursue their religion... I think they had Christianity in mind - not Satanism being accepted and openly promoted. :(

[Nadiine]

The reality of the situation is that if we were a Christian nation, we wouldn't need to make restrictive 'christian' laws.

And if we aren't a Christian nation, trying to pass Christian laws is useless anyway.

The first thing that would have to be restored is the understanding that it is the government's duty to encourage religion and morality, specifically Christian religion and morality. Not to legislate them, but to encourage them in the people.
Freedom depends entirely upon the character of the people. Further it has only ever been provided by the framework of Christianity.

As we drift further and further into post-Christian status, we will become less and less free.

however, legislating Christianity is not the answer and it will not work. The only way to restore the society is to capture the hearts and minds of the people. That can only be done in one of two ways.
#1 mass revival like the great awakenings.
#2 the same way we have lost our society in the fist place, by controling what is taught in schools.

a famous quote
"the philosophy of the school room in one generation will be the philosophy of government in the next".

We have gotten to the place we are at because for 100 years or more there has been a concerted effort to change society through what has been taught in schools.
sounds about right - and lets not forget the news media pushing the same diatribes to the rest of the masses at their mercy.

As a Christian, I believe this fits in with end times prophecy in the population being "prepped" for the antichrist who will come on the scene.

[Musician4Jesus]

To me, the concept you're suggesting is like communism. It's idealistic in it's very nature. Communism sounds great on paper, but in reality the concept of it described in paper becomes the epitome of hypocrisy and crumbles.

Do you think it would be fair for divorce to be abolished even though that would mean some married couples as much as they try to work out their problems, are just not meant for each other and are miserable together?
Divorce isn't a good thing because if you choose to marry then it should be a permanent union. However people make mistakes and to just abolish the choice of divorce is expecting a perfect and happy marriage. That's not going to happen. Why? Simple, people aren't perfect. Making society a utopia doesn't change the inherent nature of humans, which is selfish and malevolent.

If you tried to enforce rules that would work for one specific religious group, it would backfire in my opinion. The reason being is because even though the United States is known as a Christian nation that to me is a stereotype. The majority of people in the United states are Christians but not all of them are; there are people who live here that follow secular religions (Buddhism, Judaism, etc.). If you create rules for one specific group that is bias and going to create problems.

People who don't agree with the rules that are created for that one religion and all of the sects in that religion aren't going to abide by those rules if they're not a Christian. If it violates their moral code and their religious beliefs people are going to follow the rules, morality and traditions the religion they follow teaches not the rules of society. It's like in the prohibition when the consumption of alcohol was banned; even though it was banned legally people still consumed it and smuggled it in secrecy.

[MrJim]

The majority of people in the United states are Christians but not all of them are;

Do you think really? Or maybe the majority are just people domesticated by Christian tradition..?

[dayhiker]

The nature of this question confirms to me that we would loose our freedoms.
Jesus died to bring us freedom and America is suppose to be the land of the free. But if one group wanted to dominate and make all kinds of laws, then we would be impressioned even if we could live in our apartments and drive to work.

This is a big part of how things were in the Middle Ages. The church told people what to do, how to live their lives and if the Holy Spirit told a person to do something else they will be persecuted.

dayhiker

[dayhiker]

I didn't get that people were promoting communism as its generally implitemented in countried in the last century. Communism takes away personal property and thus personal responcibility for things.

Libertine doctrines say that people are responcible for themselves and are to not hurt others. Many communistic countries treated people as if they didn't know how to run their lived and so central government was to make most decissions.

Ya, that is really general, but that's how I wanted to contrast the ideas.

dayhiker

[TimRout]

We often complain about the immoral laws and corrupt system we live in; socially & politically....

but
IF we were all born again Christians and ran our own politics for the States we live in, what kind of civil laws would we want to create?
Would we make make fornication illegal? Living together? Would adultery be illegal? Would porn & strip clubs be illegal? Would we forbidding divorce except for biblical reasons? etc.?
What type of penalties would we attach to these laws?

In a "perfect world scenario" of a Christian majority, and if Christians were our politicans, how would we want our cities & states run in accordance w/ God's commands?

*(also posted in Non Denominational Congregation)In short, if Bible minded, Spirit led Christians were writing the laws and running the politics, I suspect things could improve greatly. On the other hand, one need only visit a local congregational church to observe that putting Christians in charge is no guarantee of good government. After all, a person's moral, ethical and theological convictions tell us little about his leadership ability.

But in principle...yes. If obedient, mature Christians were running the world, life would be a great deal better.

[MrJim]

But in principle...yes. If obedient, mature Christians were running the world, life would be a great deal better.

Funny thing is, obedient mature Christians are generally not interested in running the world~funny how that is:cool:

[Nadiine]

Funny thing is, obedient mature Christians are generally not interested in running the world~funny how that is:cool:
well in general too, Christians do have great interest in politics - but becomming a politician is quite another story.

I wonder how many people would actually want to be a politician if they could. I sure wouldn't want to be one... No doubt we all have high, lofty hopes of what all we could accompish & what good we could do to change things. But in truth, the 'system' is corrupted and I believe it ties the hands of any politician who wants to make good changes.

You don't just get into an office and change things yourself. You have to go thru the process of the system to get support to get your proposals changed in order to even come to a vote, let alone have it get voted on!
It is not a 1 person job.

So I think thats' why alot of Christians wouldn't bother seeking office - it's infiltrated w/ people operating against what is right & good.

[MrJim]

But in truth, the 'system' is corrupted and I believe it ties the hands of any politician who wants to make good changes.

That's why I advocate abstinence:cool:

[Izdaari]

I didn't get that people were promoting communism as its generally implitemented in countried in the last century. Communism takes away personal property and thus personal responcibility for things.

Libertine doctrines say that people are responcible for themselves and are to not hurt others. Many communistic countries treated people as if they didn't know how to run their lived and so central government was to make most decissions.

Ya, that is really general, but that's how I wanted to contrast the ideas.

dayhiker
I don't think you'll find anyone here who supports libertinism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertinism). But that's a far different ideology than libertarianism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism).

The Marquis de Sade was a famous libertine. Ron Paul is perhaps today's best known libertarian. Not much similarity there.

[PaladinGirl]

I would hope that there would be a Constitutional Amendment protecting the unborn's right to life and also one protecting our nation from gay marriage or civil unions as well.

[JimfromOhio]

I do NOT like telling other people what to do with their lives. In the United States, we are in a "democratic country" which means the Government will follow what the people want. United States are NOT a "Theocracy Government" (i.e. Christian Moral Laws). The United States is both democracy and republic. We vote for our elected officials while our elected officials create laws that we are to follow.

The world who are without Christ also have their own views. More often than not, the secular world view is in conflict with the bible. To Christians, this should NOT be a surprise. To the world who are without Christ, this conflict is not a surprise either.

[RadicallyTransformedMom]

I would hope that if Christians ran the government they would be people like Ron Paul. We need to get back to what the founding fathers REALLY intended..we strayed far from that. Liberty and Freedom is what this country was based on...the Libertarians have it right..too bad the Republicans and Democrats seem to have monopolized politics...

[Nadiine]

I would hope that if Christians ran the government they would be people like Ron Paul. We need to get back to what the founding fathers REALLY intended..we strayed far from that. Liberty and Freedom is what this country was based on...the Libertarians have it right..too bad the Republicans and Democrats seem to have monopolized politics...
can I ask what Ron Paul's policies are? =)

[edb19]

Do you think really? Or maybe the majority are just people domesticated by Christian tradition..?

important distinction - thanks for the reminder MrJim

[edb19]

Funny thing is, obedient mature Christians are generally not interested in running the world~funny how that is:cool:

well in general too, Christians do have great interest in politics - but becomming a politician is quite another story.

I wonder how many people would actually want to be a politician if they could. I sure wouldn't want to be one... No doubt we all have high, lofty hopes of what all we could accompish & what good we could do to change things. But in truth, the 'system' is corrupted and I believe it ties the hands of any politician who wants to make good changes.

You don't just get into an office and change things yourself. You have to go thru the process of the system to get support to get your proposals changed in order to even come to a vote, let alone have it get voted on!
It is not a 1 person job.

So I think thats' why alot of Christians wouldn't bother seeking office - it's infiltrated w/ people operating against what is right & good.


I think by and large Christians abdicated the political scene for various reasons (not just politics either - they left public universities and schools, they left the media) and now all too many (not saying the folks here - this is a generalization) are complaining about the results.

We need to be the school teachers, the college professors, the investigative reporters and the politicians and we need to be these things in the public venues.

The swing to the left took place incrementally, the change back will take place the same way. And as someone said earlier - it's far more than changing the law - it will involve changing people's mindset.

[RadicallyTransformedMom]

can I ask what Ron Paul's policies are? =)
limited government, low taxes, free markets, getting rid of the IRS and social security, pro-homeschooling, pro-life, border security etc...to get a better idea of ALL his policies just go to this page:
http://www.ronpaul2008.com/issues/

[JPPT1974]

limited government, low taxes, free markets, getting rid of the IRS and social security, pro-homeschooling, pro-life, border security etc...to get a better idea of ALL his policies just go to this page:
http://www.ronpaul2008.com/issues/

Wished that could happen but
Don't see that happening at all!

[Teh0bb3s]

Christians should control NOTHING. 21/50

[SingingElk]

The shift to the left that is happening today is eroding the rights of Christians. The day where Churches will be forced to hire homosexuals is not far off.

[longhair75]

We need to hold our elected officials to their word, and make them accountable for their actions once they are in office. This requires that we pay close attention to what our elected officials are actually doing. not what some political spin jockey tells us they are doing.

An educated voter is corruption's greatest enemy!

[MrJim]

The shift to the left that is happening today is eroding the rights of Christians. The day where Churches will be forced to hire homosexuals is not far off.

"rights of Christians"~must have missed that in the bible ;)

The only chance for you wishing to pursue this course is to appeal to rights as Americans. Rights as Christians really holds no water~Paul didn't appeal to his right as a Christian in dealing with Rome, but appealed to his rights as a Roman citizen.

So use your constitution and bill of rights as your foundation, for scripture really has no place in this dogfight.

[Izdaari]

"rights of Christians"~must have missed that in the bible ;)

The only chance for you wishing to pursue this course is to appeal to rights as Americans. Rights as Christians really holds no water~Paul didn't appeal to his right as a Christian in dealing with Rome, but appealed to his rights as a Roman citizen.

So use your constitution and bill of rights as your foundation, for scripture really has no place in this dogfight.
:amen:

[SingingElk]

:amen:

I have been off this site for a while. Attacking the liberals from a constitutional angle does make a lot more sense. It is constitutional freedoms that are being eroded.

I will cite Colorado's Senate Bill 08-200 as an example of tyranny on one group of people eroding the basic rights of everyone else. It makes homosexuals a special protected class that can use any public restroom they wish, be it either the men's room, or women's room. Anyone objecting is fined 300 dollars. That means if a mother diapering her 18 month old daughter complains about a strange man in the ladies room, she could be fined 300 dollars if he claims he feels 'feminine'.

This has happened because the majority of Christians have sat on their hands and have not wanted to become involved in the educational and political processes.

[JimfromOhio]

There is a fine balance between legalism and liberalism. Both are wrong. Everything is allowable but not everything is allowable. The world is going to get WORST whether we accept it or not.

To the Conervatives, rather than forcing moral standards, we are to set examples and allow God to change people's lives. If you look back that Jesus rebuked religious leaders who had extreme doctrines that intimindated others who don't follow their rules. True Christians knows that not everyone is willing to be a Christian. I can't be like a Pharisee to make sure they don't break God's "rules". I can't force against their will to believe what I believe becaues only God can through the Holy Spirit.

The BEST Evangelist is the Holy Spirit through Jesus Christ and as we set examples, the Holy Spirit will work in a person's heart to be convicted. 1 Thessalonians 1:5 "because our gospel came to you not simply with words, but also with power, with the Holy Spirit and with deep conviction. You know how we lived among you for your sake."

[MrJim]

There is a fine balance between legalism and liberalism. Both are wrong. Everything is allowable but not everything is allowable. The world is going to get WORST whether we accept it or not.

To the Conervatives, rather than forcing moral standards, we are to set examples and allow God to change people's lives. If you look back that Jesus rebuked religious leaders who had extreme doctrines that intimindated others who don't follow their rules. True Christians knows that not everyone is willing to be a Christian. I can't be like a Pharisee to make sure they don't break God's "rules". I can't force against their will to believe what I believe becaues only God can through the Holy Spirit.

The BEST Evangelist is the Holy Spirit through Jesus Christ and as we set examples, the Holy Spirit will work in a person's heart to be convicted. 1 Thessalonians 1:5 "because our gospel came to you not simply with words, but also with power, with the Holy Spirit and with deep conviction. You know how we lived among you for your sake."

:amen:

[Nadiine]

There is a fine balance between legalism and liberalism. Both are wrong. Everything is allowable but not everything is allowable. The world is going to get WORST whether we accept it or not.

To the Conervatives, rather than forcing moral standards, we are to set examples and allow God to change people's lives. If you look back that Jesus rebuked religious leaders who had extreme doctrines that intimindated others who don't follow their rules. True Christians knows that not everyone is willing to be a Christian. I can't be like a Pharisee to make sure they don't break God's "rules". I can't force against their will to believe what I believe becaues only God can through the Holy Spirit.

The BEST Evangelist is the Holy Spirit through Jesus Christ and as we set examples, the Holy Spirit will work in a person's heart to be convicted. 1 Thessalonians 1:5 "because our gospel came to you not simply with words, but also with power, with the Holy Spirit and with deep conviction. You know how we lived among you for your sake."
While this is basically true, it doesn't mean we sit on our hands and keep silent about morality either.
We should be not only exampling by how we live our life each day, but also to vote what we know is right. I'm not going to vote for gay marriage just becuz it's God's business to convict people about their relationships - "who am I to say no" type mentality.

I hope that conveys what I'm trying to get across. I don't think it has to be an either/or approach to conservativism - if you don't help vote for what you know is right (whenever it appears on a ballot to make that vote), they sure won't be.
If you don't help shape morality where you can, then they will take it over and tell you what it will be and you'll lose what little you do have. Our job is to be salt here, not cower in fear of what they might attack us for.
They'll view us as fundamentalists no matter what we say or do (kind or not) becuz it goes against their desires for moral freedom.

I don't know about anybody else, but I've noticed they're getting more and more demanding and brazen about their rights which I know is a sign of what Jesus told us would come before His return. So while I agree we can't stand around being pharisees with the "thou shalt not" lists, we also can't stand by and watch them take over as if to believe we have no place or voice in society either.
The days are long over where we can demand that adultery be legally punished anyways lol - but we can speak out against other threatening, harmful things that will affect our families.

Fine line - but the minute we say what's contrary to what this world wants, we're automatically labeled the fundy phobes. No matter how kind we are about it anymore. Have you noticed?
Taking a Stand today for what's righteous is an automatic persecution on the way; nice or not.
We either keep silent to avoid it or take the heat.

[JimfromOhio]

What this comes down to is this: Government is not the problem. Its PEOPLE. I do believe very much in being a responsible Christian citizen. As good testimony to outsiders, Christians can work with non-Christians (& government) in attempting to promote moral laws that produces justice and civic peace because it is good for all people, not just Christians (Galatians 6:10; 1 Thessalonians 5:15). The world who are without Christ also have their own views. More often than not, the secular world view is in conflict with the bible. We must work persistently and faithfully for a more peaceful and equitable world community. That means we if we do not like what the Government is doing, GET INVOLVED and make it change (if God is willing).

[Nadiine]

What this comes down to is this: Government is not the problem. Its PEOPLE. I do believe very much in being a responsible Christian citizen. As good testimony to outsiders, Christians can work with non-Christians (& government) in attempting to promote moral laws that produces justice and civic peace because it is good for all people, not just Christians (Galatians 6:10; 1 Thessalonians 5:15). The world who are without Christ also have their own views. More often than not, the secular world view is in conflict with the bible. We must work persistently and faithfully for a more peaceful and equitable world community. That means we if we do not like what the Government is doing, GET INVOLVED and make it change (if God is willing).
If this part was added to your previous post as one post, I wouldn't have written anything but an :amen: ;) :)


=0)
The thought that came to my mind was "salt and light" , being salt and light to a dark world - and giving that truth in love.

[SingingElk]

More Christian involvement in the political process will prevent more unjust laws from coming into being. Laws that restrict free speech of Christian and non-christian alike examples of unjust law. Today there are such laws on the books.

Culture at large has reached a stage where laws are being passed that are not favourable to Christians. As stated earlier it is going to get worse. But that is not an excuse for us to sit on our hands.

There is a scripture out there, I don't know the exact chapter an verse that states something to the effect

"If my people will humble themselves and pray, then I will heal their land".

I think that is applicable today.

[MrJim]

More Christian involvement in the political process will prevent more unjust laws from coming into being. Laws that restrict free speech of Christian and non-christian alike examples of unjust law. Today there are such laws on the books.

Culture at large has reached a stage where laws are being passed that are not favourable to Christians. As stated earlier it is going to get worse. But that is not an excuse for us to sit on our hands.

There is a scripture out there, I don't know the exact chapter an verse that states something to the effect

"If my people will humble themselves and pray, then I will heal their land".

I think that is applicable today.

What you mean is more conservative Christian involvement, right? Plenty of folks calling themselves Christians on the liberal side believing they're doing God's work...;)

[Izdaari]

What you mean is more conservative Christian involvement, right? Plenty of folks calling themselves Christians on the liberal side believing they're doing God's work...;)
And at least one libertarian Christian too. ;)

[Nadiine]

What you mean is more conservative Christian involvement, right? Plenty of folks calling themselves Christians on the liberal side believing they're doing God's work...;)
lol
;) :thumbsup:

[Nadiine]

And at least one libertarian Christian too. ;)
:wave: hi again =)

[imind]

I will cite Colorado's Senate Bill 08-200 as an example of tyranny on one group of people eroding the basic rights of everyone else. It makes homosexuals a special protected class that can use any public restroom they wish, be it either the men's room, or women's room. Anyone objecting is fined 300 dollars. That means if a mother diapering her 18 month old daughter complains about a strange man in the ladies room, she could be fined 300 dollars if he claims he feels 'feminine'.

no, it gives nobody special rights, as the bill makes public restrooms unisex, making both the mens and ladies rooms open to either sex. argue about the bill all you want, but it still provides no special rights for anyone.

though i can't imagine where you heard that from. amazing how some christians are so dishonest.

[JPPT1974]

Putting our differences with the
Non-Christians aside and
Working for the good of common man.