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LivingWordUnity
26th April 2008, 06:05 PM
The following is a quote:

A year or two after reading Leon's paper on Mary, I read a book by a Catholic author who gave a long quote from Matthew 16 in his section on the pope. In this passage Christ says, "You are Peter and on this rock I will build my Church." Up to this time I had always thought the rock on which the Church was built is the revelation that Jesus is the Christ, and I could argue this position well. As my eyes scanned the passage, I noticed for the first time a structural feature in the text which required that Peter be the rock.

In Matthew 16:17-19 Jesus makes three statements to Peter: (a) "Blessed are you Simon Bar-Jonah," (b) "You are Peter," and (c) "I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven." The first statement is clearly a blessing, something which builds Peter up and magnifies him. Christ declares him blessed because he received a special revelation from God.

The third statement is also a blessing: Christ declares that he will give Peter the keys to the kingdom. This is clearly a beatitude, something that magnifies and builds Peter up.

And if Christ's first and third statements to Peter are blessings, the middle statement, in its immediate context, also must be a blessing.

This was a problem, because in order to defend the view that Peter is not the rock on which the Church is built, I had to appeal to a minor difference in the Greek text between the word used for Peter (<petros>) and the word used for rock (<petra>).

According to standard anti-Catholic interpretation, <petros> means "a small stone" while <petra> means "a large mass of rock," and the statement "You are Peter [<Petros>] ," should be interpreted as something that stresses Peter's insignificance.

Evangelicals picture Christ as having meant, "You are a small stone, Peter, but I will build my Church on this great mass of rock which is the revelation of my identity."

One problem with this interpretation, a problem that many Protestant Bible scholars will admit,[1] is that while <petros> and <petra> did have these meanings in some ancient Greek poetry, the distinction was gone by the first century, when Matthew's Gospel was written. At that time the two words meant the same thing: a rock.

Another problem is that when he addressed Peter, Jesus was not speaking Greek, but Aramaic, a cousin language of Hebrew. In Aramaic there is no difference between the two words which in Greek are rendered as <petros> and <petra>. They are both <kepha>; that's why Paul often refers to Peter as <Cephas>[2] (cf. 1 Cor. 15:5, Gal. 2:9).

What Christ actually said was, "You are <kepha> and on this <kepha> I will build my Church."

But even if the words <petros> and <petra> did have different meanings, the Protestant reading of two different "rocks" would not fit the context. The second statement to Peter would be something which minimized or diminished him, pointing out his insignificance, with the result that Jesus would be saying, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar- Jonah! (You are an insignificant little pebble.) Here are the keys to the kingdom of heaven!" Such an incongruous sequence of statements would have been not merely odd, but inexplicable. (Many Protestant commentators recognize this and do their best to deny the obvious sense of this passage, however implausible their explanations may be.)

I also noticed that the Lord's three statements to Peter had two parts, and the second parts explain the first. The reason Peter was "blessed" was because "flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven" (v.17). The meaning of the name change, "You are Rock," is explained by the promise, "On this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it" (v. 18). The purpose of the keys is explained by Jesus' commission, "Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven" (v.19). A careful reading of these three statements, paying attention to their immediate context and interrelatedness, clearly shows that Peter was the rock about which Jesus spoke.

These and other considerations showed me that the standard anti-Catholic interpretations of this text could not stand up to careful biblical scrutiny. They were forced to wrench the middle statement to Peter out of its context.

I reversed my interpretation and concluded that Peter was indeed the rock on which Jesus built his Church. This is what an unbiased reader looking at the grammar and literary structure of the text would conclude.

If Peter in fact was the rock Jesus was talking about, that meant he was the head apostle (the Greek text reveals that Peter alone was singled out for this praise, and he alone was given the special authority symbolized by the keys of the kingdom of heaven, though other disciples shared in a more general sense Peter's authority of binding and loosing [cf. Matt. 18:18]). If he was the head apostle, then once Christ had ascended into heaven, Peter would have been the earthly head of the Church, subordinate to Christ's heavenly headship.

And if Peter was the earthly head of the Church, he fit the most basic definition of the office of the pope. As a result, I had to conclude that Catholics were right in saying that Peter was the first pope. Whether Christ intended there to be any other popes was a question I still had to settle, but already I had seen enough to know that I would have to re-investigate Catholic theology.
Source (http://www.ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/AKINSTOR.htm)

Artificial Intelligence
21st May 2008, 02:16 AM
13 When Jesus came into the region of Caesarea Philippi, He asked His disciples, saying, “Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am?”
14 So they said, “Some say John the Baptist, some Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”
15 He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?”
16 Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
17 Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.
18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.

So I guess you gotta make a choice, did Jesus build the church on the confession of Christ, or upon Peter? It was clearly upon what Peter said, that "You are the Christ", and thus upon this the church is built, not upon Peter, he cannot save. What is the church built upon? What is the foundation or rock of the church? If it is anything other than Jesus, it is folly, and will fall to the sands of the sea. What the church is built upon, is the confession that Jesus is the Christ, Son of the living God!

Romans 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

As for "you are Peter" Matthew 10:32 “Therefore whoever confesses Me before men, him I will also confess before My Father who is in heaven.

Peter confessed Christ, Jesus confessed Peter, and Jesus said upon confession of Christ will the church be built. Get it?

From what you posted, it was missing that context, dropped important verse, but it cannot be removed, it's well connected if you look closely.

cubanito
21st May 2008, 03:51 PM
1- It is unlikel that Jesus spoke only Aramaic. He lived in "Galilee of the Gentiles" and as a carpenter was likely employed by the building boom at nearby Joppa, a mainly Greek city. Thus as a child it is VERY likely He would have picked up several languages, including Greek. As such He could have very easily chosen Greek to make the play on words.

2- In any case, it is NOT what He may have said or not said we think inerrant. It is the written Greek we hold to, and in that Greek the play on words is very clear: it shows that Peter is NOT the Rock referred to.
At times it is illustrative to take the form of an argument/question and think of something else. Besides the Word of God, few things are as reliable as Mathematics. So how would any of you answer the following:

Now, please answer “Yes” or “No” to each question.

A) Do you believe that you are infallible in your personal interpretation of mathematics?

B) Do you believe that its possible that your personal interpretation of mathematics could be in error?

JR
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Now,

PaladinGirl
6th June 2008, 02:31 PM
The rock that Jesus was referring to was Himself. It's as simple as that.

LivingWordUnity
6th June 2008, 07:09 PM
The rock that Jesus was referring to was Himself. It's as simple as that.The Catholic Church never taught that Jesus isn't the Rock. But, at the same time, it should not be ignored that Jesus said that Peter is the rock that Jesus' Church was going to be built upon.

Jesus is the Rock, but Peter and his successors are given a special grace from God to share in this role.

With God, all things are possible.