The New Covenant

[TrustAndObey]

I am debating with a gentleman that says God's first covenant was just the Ten Commandments alone and that they were faulty.

He cited scripture, rightfully so, that said the new covenant is based on better promises.

I just read through the Ten Commandments again to make sure, but I don't see any promises in them.

Do you guys?

Right before them I see a glorious proclamation:

Exodus 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Was that a faulty promise?

But within the Ten Commandments themselves I don't see a single promise.

[OntheDL]

I am debating with a gentleman that says God's first covenant was just the Ten Commandments alone and that they were faulty.

He cited scripture, rightfully so, that said the new covenant is based on better promises.

I just read through the Ten Commandments again to make sure, but I don't see any promises in them.

Do you guys?

Right before them I see a glorious proclamation:

Exodus 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Was that a faulty promise?

But within the Ten Commandments themselves I don't see a single promise.

The 10 commandments are the terms/conditions of the covenant.

The old covenant: man's promise to meet the requirement of the law.

The new covenant: God's promise to empower man to meet the requirement of the law. That's why it's a better promise.

Hey Lainie, you can only take a horse to the water.

[PROPHECYKID]

The 10 commandments are the terms/conditions of the covenant.

The old covenant: man's promise to meet the requirement of the law.

The new covenant: God's promise to empower man to meet the requirement of the law. That's why it's a better promise.

Hey Lainie, you can only take a horse to the water.
The Old covenant included the earthly sanctuary with all the ceremonial services. How do you include that with the brief explanation you gave

[TrustAndObey]

Hey Lainie, you can only take a horse to the water.

This particular horse doesn't appear to like water, though.

:pink:

[OntheDL]

The Old covenant included the earthly sanctuary with all the ceremonial services. How do you include that with the brief explanation you gave

If you look at the old covenant. It was a provisional covenant. It was never intended to save. It was designed for men to realize their need for the New Covenant which had been in effect since sin entered into this world.

The 10 commandments were expanded into the moral codes of the law of Moses. Together with the ceremonial laws, they helped the believers to better understand the 10 commandments which reflect the character of Jesus Christ.

Furthermore the ceremonial law...was never a part of any covenant. The ark God instructed Moses to build which is the center piece of the sanctuary is called the Ark of Covenant. The 10 commandments which were written on two stone tables are stored in the ark. The book of the law where were written by Moses were stored outside of the ark.

[honorthesabbath]

I'm not sure, but I think this command might have a promise in it.....

Ex 20:12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.

[TrustAndObey]

I'm not sure, but I think this command might have a promise in it.....

Ex 20:12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.


You are so absolutely right!!

[PROPHECYKID]

If you look at the old covenant. It was a provisional covenant. It was never intended to save. It was designed for men to realize their need for the New Covenant which had been in effect since sin entered into this world.

The 10 commandments were expanded into the moral codes of the law of Moses. Together with the ceremonial laws, they helped the believers to better understand the 10 commandments which reflect the character of Jesus Christ.

Furthermore the ceremonial law...was never a part of any covenant. The ark God instructed Moses to build which is the center piece of the sanctuary is called the Ark of Covenant. The 10 commandments which were written on two stone tables are stored in the ark. The book of the law where were written by Moses were stored outside of the ark.
But whats about the Earthly Sanctuary.

Heb 9:1 Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.
Heb 9:2 For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary.

These were apart of the covenant right? Am i wrong.

I always looked at the covenant in terms of salvation. The earthly priest was the mediator of the old covenant. Jesus is the mediator of the new. The blood of the new covenant is the Blood of Jesus but the blood of bulls and goats was the blood of the old covenant.

The ceremonial system is tied into the old covenant as far as I see and it is done away since the reality which is Jesus came.

[TrustAndObey]

But whats about the Earthly Sanctuary.

Heb 9:1 Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.
Heb 9:2 For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary.

These were apart of the covenant right? Am i wrong.

I always looked at the covenant in terms of salvation. The earthly priest was the mediator of the old covenant. Jesus is the mediator of the new. The blood of the new covenant is the Blood of Jesus but the blood of bulls and goats was the blood of the old covenant.

The ceremonial system is tied into the old covenant as far as I see and it is done away since the reality which is Jesus came.

Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

I agree that the new and the old contrast as far as the penalty for sin. Now a believer can confess their sins and be cleansed of all unrighteousness, through the blood of Christ.

That's where faith comes in as well, because I know sometimes we FEEL our sin is just too bad to be forgiven, but it's a promise that it is!

If anyone ever tells you the Ten Commandments are "against us", ask them to imagine this world if everyone kept them. How would it be against you in any way if you were the recipient of the goodness of the law?

IOW, imagine your life now, and then imagine how different it would've been if you'd never been the victim of someone lying to you, lying about you, or stealing from you, etc.

Just take "thou shalt not covet", for instance, and imagine this world without jealousy and what it would be like if others expressed true JOY when something good happened to you.

Jealousy leads to so many other sins, amen?

Someone mentioned that New Covenant believers now have the Holy Spirit in them, but so did David and Moses.

I've gotten so many different answers when I've asked what the New Covenant is exactly, but one of them is that the Holy Spirit gives each individual person their own set of laws and instructions that are pleasing to God.

The big problem with that idea? Would the Holy Spirit ever instruct someone to covet someone? Lie to them or about them? Etc.

God's will for His people has never changed.

[freeindeed2]

I've read both threads (here and there) the topic is completely shaped differently here than where discussion is allowed. Just an observation.

In CHRIST alone...

[TrustAndObey]

I've read both threads (here and there) the topic is completely shaped differently here than where discussion is allowed. Just an observation.

In CHRIST alone...

Thank you for stopping by.....

[ChrisCarol]

The big problem with that idea? Would the Holy Spirit ever instruct someone to covet someone? Lie to them or about them? Etc.



Did God ever tell someone to sacrifice another human being. Genesis 22:2

I have found for myself it is better to trust God and allow Him to lead me rather than try to understand all the wheres and whys and whatfors.

I was given a comforter so I could trust in Him so that I did not have to try and make sense of what my Soverign God does. He is God and whatever He does is OK I only accept it and look for the good that will come.

[freeindeed2]

Deleted by poster.

[k4c]

But whats about the Earthly Sanctuary.

Heb 9:1 Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.
Heb 9:2 For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary.

These were apart of the covenant right? Am i wrong.

I always looked at the covenant in terms of salvation. The earthly priest was the mediator of the old covenant. Jesus is the mediator of the new. The blood of the new covenant is the Blood of Jesus but the blood of bulls and goats was the blood of the old covenant.

The ceremonial system is tied into the old covenant as far as I see and it is done away since the reality which is Jesus came.

The thing that gets me is that the old covenant is obsolete, which included the Ten Commandments, as well as, the book of Moses wrote.

Hebrews 9:1-4 Now in that first covenant between God and his people there were rules for worship and there was a sacred tent down here on earth. Inside this place of worship there were two rooms. The first one contained the golden candlestick and a table with special loaves of holy bread upon it; this part was called the Holy Place. Then there was a curtain and behind the curtain was a room called the Holy of Holies. In that room there were a golden incense-altar and the golden chest, called the ark of the covenant, completely covered on all sides with pure gold. Inside the ark were the tablets of stone with the Ten Commandments written on them, and a golden jar with some manna in it, and Aaron's wooden cane that budded.

[TrustAndObey]

The thing that gets me is that the old covenant is obsolete, which included the Ten Commandments, as well as, the book of Moses wrote.

Hebrews 9:1-4 Now in that first covenant between God and his people there were rules for worship and there was a sacred tent down here on earth. Inside this place of worship there were two rooms. The first one contained the golden candlestick and a table with special loaves of holy bread upon it; this part was called the Holy Place. Then there was a curtain and behind the curtain was a room called the Holy of Holies. In that room there were a golden incense-altar and the golden chest, called the ark of the covenant, completely covered on all sides with pure gold. Inside the ark were the tablets of stone with the Ten Commandments written on them, and a golden jar with some manna in it, and Aaron's wooden cane that budded.

I'm not seeing your point with this John. Can you elaborate?

[freeindeed2]

Deleted by poster.

[freeindeed2]

Deleted by poster.

[TrustAndObey]

That's not a very nice thing to say. First of all my post was in fellowship. I don't post sarcasm about Jesus Christ, and saying so IS NOT an insult. Secondly, I didn't push for a separate forum, and saying otherwise doesn't make it so. I'm fine with letting that fall on those who actually were pushing for it. I posted completely within the rules and I'd appreciate others not jumping on every post I make in order to try and raise trouble.

Thanks!

In CHRIST alone...

I would consider a vote for something as an endorsement of (push for) something, but that's just me.

I stop by here every day "hoping to find others that have...."

You meant that in fellowship?

I think we've all read your posts long enough to know what you think of us. You've made your point.

You voted for it and got it, so why can't you just go enjoy it?

We would like some peace HERE too please.

[TrustAndObey]

The thing that gets me is that the old covenant is obsolete, which included the Ten Commandments, as well as, the book of Moses wrote.

Hebrews 9:1-4 Now in that first covenant between God and his people there were rules for worship and there was a sacred tent down here on earth. Inside this place of worship there were two rooms. The first one contained the golden candlestick and a table with special loaves of holy bread upon it; this part was called the Holy Place. Then there was a curtain and behind the curtain was a room called the Holy of Holies. In that room there were a golden incense-altar and the golden chest, called the ark of the covenant, completely covered on all sides with pure gold. Inside the ark were the tablets of stone with the Ten Commandments written on them, and a golden jar with some manna in it, and Aaron's wooden cane that budded.

Where is the ark of the covenant now?

[freeindeed2]

Deleted by poster.

[k4c]

Where is the ark of the covenant now?

The ark is in heaven...

I wonder if the one in heaven is the same one that was on earth or if the one in heaven is the original of which the earthly one was a pattern of? I wonder if it makes any difference if it is?

[Jimlarmore]

I am debating with a gentleman that says God's first covenant was just the Ten Commandments alone and that they were faulty.

He cited scripture, rightfully so, that said the new covenant is based on better promises.

I just read through the Ten Commandments again to make sure, but I don't see any promises in them.

Do you guys?

Right before them I see a glorious proclamation:

Exodus 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Was that a faulty promise?

But within the Ten Commandments themselves I don't see a single promise.

I've been over on the GT forum debating evolutionist for the last week or so, so I am way behind on any of these threads.

Tha faulty promises of the old covenant was the people's failure to keep their promise to observe it. There was no promises in the ten commandments only guidelines for righteous living. The old covenant was written on stone and was a covenant of death because they failed to observe it. The new covenant is written on our hearts and are the same laws of God. However, now they are intimately a part of us. We are law observers because we are saved , not law observers to be saved.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

[Jimlarmore]

But whats about the Earthly Sanctuary.

Heb 9:1 Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.
Heb 9:2 For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary.

These were apart of the covenant right? Am i wrong.

I always looked at the covenant in terms of salvation. The earthly priest was the mediator of the old covenant. Jesus is the mediator of the new. The blood of the new covenant is the Blood of Jesus but the blood of bulls and goats was the blood of the old covenant.

The ceremonial system is tied into the old covenant as far as I see and it is done away since the reality which is Jesus came.

Absolutely true, however, this does not mean that the ten commandment law of God was thrown out the window at the cross. There is too much scripture that tells us the ten commandments are still very much in force.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

[PROPHECYKID]

Absolutely true, however, this does not mean that the ten commandment law of God was thrown out the window at the cross. There is too much scripture that tells us the ten commandments are still very much in force.

God Bless
Jim Larmore
Very much Agreed :thumbsup:

[DeanM]

Hi folks!

Please take a moment to read the FSGs for this forum:


The Debate/Discussion subforum (http://christianforums.com/f841-discussion-and-debate.html) is mainly a debate forum. The guideline for who can post here allows for debates and discussions among members and non-members who are studying Adventist beliefs with the inclination to join the church or have shown they are friends of the church and respective of our Adventist beliefs.


I'm locking this thread while the staff has a chance to review it. Violating the FSGs will not be tolerated, nor will baiting other members into violation. This is a two way street, folks. Everybody needs to play nice.

Thanks,

DeanM