Spite Reporting in Politics Forums

[tapero]

This is a post by Ringo84 on Spite Reporting moved from General Political Discussion to here.


This is not a typical political discussion. But since it has to do with the politics board, I'm going to post it anyway. I don't know where else to post this.

Ever since January of this year, I have seen a tangible change in the environment on this board and the GPD board. Members who were fairly reasonable and open before this time became more hateful and extreme in their viewpoints seemingly overnight (or at least seemed to become that way). Personally, I went from almost never being reported to being spite reported nearly daily. It's getting to the point nowadays that I can hardly log onto this forum for any length of time without being reported for something - no matter how small, petty, and spiteful.

Now, I don't know if anyone else has noticed this change, but I don't think it's just me. I'm taking this to the board itself because I believe that after almost two years of posting here, I have established myself as a fairly respectful, open-minded person (at least I have tried to be that way as often as possible) - not some kook who occasionally trolls this board with half-baked political ideas. I'm hoping that we can discuss the discourse that happens here, if that's possible, and work to end the hatefulness.

I know as well as anyone else that politics is one of those subjects that makes tempers flare and encourages heated debate. I don't mind either one of those as long as those with whom I'm debating act maturely and fairly. Spite reporting me or anyone else on this forum is not mature - it's vindictive and it's a waste of my time and moderator time.

I'm getting quite sick of having to defend myself nearly on a daily basis because of immature people, and I think that we can all agree that such immaturity has no place on a forum where we should be acting - and debating - our age. Am I right?
Ringo



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[tapero]

This is a post by Ringo84 on Spite Reporting moved from General Political Discussion to here.


This is not a typical political discussion. But since it has to do with the politics board, I'm going to post it anyway. I don't know where else to post this.

Ever since January of this year, I have seen a tangible change in the environment on this board and the GPD board. Members who were fairly reasonable and open before this time became more hateful and extreme in their viewpoints seemingly overnight (or at least seemed to become that way). Personally, I went from almost never being reported to being spite reported nearly daily. It's getting to the point nowadays that I can hardly log onto this forum for any length of time without being reported for something - no matter how small, petty, and spiteful.

Now, I don't know if anyone else has noticed this change, but I don't think it's just me. I'm taking this to the board itself because I believe that after almost two years of posting here, I have established myself as a fairly respectful, open-minded person (at least I have tried to be that way as often as possible) - not some kook who occasionally trolls this board with half-baked political ideas. I'm hoping that we can discuss the discourse that happens here, if that's possible, and work to end the hatefulness.

I know as well as anyone else that politics is one of those subjects that makes tempers flare and encourages heated debate. I don't mind either one of those as long as those with whom I'm debating act maturely and fairly. Spite reporting me or anyone else on this forum is not mature - it's vindictive and it's a waste of my time and moderator time.

I'm getting quite sick of having to defend myself nearly on a daily basis because of immature people, and I think that we can all agree that such immaturity has no place on a forum where we should be acting - and debating - our age. Am I right?
Ringo
.

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

nevermind -- did not realise this bes about politics section specifically.
Moriah does not post there so no need to post here either. sorry!

[Allegory]

I made this suggestion in the original thread, but I will make it again here because it's a system that could potentially work.

In order to curtail superfluous reports and spite reports I think implementing the following system would be effective: if a user reports a post and that post is not acted upon then they lose a particular percentage of their rep, say 5% or something. A percentage would work much better than a fixed amount because it would effectively discourage both small- and high-rep holders. A person with 100 million rep would be losing potentially 5 million of that rep.

A potential problem would be users creating sock puppets for the purposes of reporting without risking their rep, but an easy solution is to simply limit reporting posts to users with over 100 posts or something.

[joebudda]

Just make the reporter visible. This will tare down the wall of concealment and maybe cause them to think twice about it.

[Panzerkampfwagen]

What's even worse is that there are staff members that try to twist the use of the comma and the meaning of the word 'is' to make some of my posts rule violations.

[Lel]

Just get rid of reporting & make it a free for all.

The drama's not worth it.

[Panzerkampfwagen]

Just get rid of reporting & make it a free for all.

The drama's not worth it.

Rather than contend with people that don't understand basic syntax of the English language?

Maybe.

:D

[Amoranemix]

This is a post by Ringo84 on Spite Reporting moved from General Political Discussion to here.Although I am not familiar with the General Political Discussion subforum, I think this thread would be more useful there than here. This subforum is meant to be used for the development of rules and feature and we already have a thread discussing something very similar : christianforums.com/t6652584-reducing-the-number-of-inappropriate-reports.html.
A different approach is to try to change the attitude of the members and to achieve that the discussion must I think take place among the members. I anticipate few posters of the pertinent area will participate here.

In order to curtail superfluous reports and spite reports I think implementing the following system would be effective: if a user reports a post and that post is not acted upon then they lose a particular percentage of their rep, say 5% or something. A percentage would work much better than a fixed amount because it would effectively discourage both small- and high-rep holders. A person with 100 million rep would be losing potentially 5 million of that rep.[1]
A potential problem would be users creating sock puppets for the purposes of reporting without risking their rep, but an easy solution is to simply limit reporting posts to users with over 100 posts or something.[2][1] A problem I see with your proposal is that it implicitly assigns value to reputation. You are implying that someone with a higher reputation is a better person and therefore deserves more esteem. In addition, with the coming upgrade to vBulletin 3.7 the reputation system will probably be changed and we should wait for it to see how it could be used. I think it would be better to apply your idea to blessings.
In addition, it is not because the reported post is not acted upon that the report was inappropriate.
[2] That wouldn't stop most people as attaining 100 posts is easy. A more complicated solution would be required, like reducing the reputation of all socks as well.

Just make the reporter visible. This will tare down the wall of concealment and maybe cause them to think twice about it.A case can be made that the OPer should have the option to remain anonymous. A discussion about that is I think pointless at this time due to the prevailing secrecy.

What's even worse is that there are staff members that try to twist the use of the comma and the meaning of the word 'is' to make some of my posts rule violations.Staff are allowed to turn regular posts into rule violations.

[tapero]

Although I am not familiar with the General Political Discussion subforum, I think this thread would be more useful there than here. This subforum is meant to be used for the development of rules and feature and we already have a thread discussing something very similar : christianforums.com/t6652584-reducing-the-number-of-inappropriate-reports.html.

Such is not a political discussion so there was no other place for it, which is why was moved here. There is a redirect from where it was to here so if any were interested in participating they could come here.

I didn't see the other one here, but this member is specifically speaking to those in political forum.

General Political is under politics in discussion and debate forums.

Thanks for writing.
tapero

[Panzerkampfwagen]

Staff are allowed to turn regular posts into rule violations.

But to twist the word 'is?'

[Bombila]

This is not just a problem in the politics forum. It isn't necessarily 'spite' reporting, either, sometimes it is 'I'm outraged that your opinion is different than mine; it must be against the rules' reporting. I decided to add to this thread because I just ran into another instance of it in E&M, where someone was reported for a post that was essentially just a disagreement (and possibly a lack of word comprehension on the part of the reporter) - no slander, etc., involved.

It's most likely the post will, in a day or so, be ruled NV. That would be fine, except the reported member has been harmed. There has been a report symbol on his post for all to see for a day or so. His discourse in the thread has been interrupted by having to figure out why he's been reported and if he's actually violated a rule. He can no longer speak as freely as he originally did, since he now knows at least one unknown person thinks he doesn't sufficiently understand CF's rules.

The reporter 'wins' by default, whether a violation is detected or not, the moment the 'yellow flag of infamy' goes up on the member's post. Threads move on. Everyone notices a reported post. Not many go back to see if the flag's been lifted.

This is yet another reason why reports should be open, so members can see why a post has been reported, how staff are handling it, and note when a 'no violation' is the decision. It would to some extent take the wind out of the sails of this kind of reporter.

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

Just make the reporter visible. This will tare down the wall of concealment and maybe cause them to think twice about it.
Been saying that for a year now -- about the whole forum and reports in general.
Nobody bes listening.
They think it will lead to more cyber-warring between hostile parties. But Moriah thinks it will flush out the cowards or shut them up, particularly the spite reporters.

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

Just get rid of reporting & make it a free for all.

The drama's not worth it.

Hear hear. Let people use the bloody ignore feature for a change when they find they cannot run to Mommy Moderator all full of tattle tales they will be forced to conclude "hey, this thing bes pretty nifty -- I don't have to read that horrible demon-in-flesh Moriah Conquering Wind's nasty posties anymore!!" and be done with it. :D

[Rep Daddy]

Hear hear. Let people use the bloody ignore feature for a change when they find they cannot run to Mommy Moderator all full of tattle tales they will be forced to conclude "hey, this thing bes pretty nifty -- I don't have to read that horrible demon-in-flesh Moriah Conquering Wind's nasty posties anymore!!" and be done with it. :D

Just change the report button into a rep button.
That ought to change the dynamics.

[HollandScotts]

Staff are allowed to turn regular posts into rule violations.

You'ld think the staff of "Christian Forums" would be called to a somewhat higher standard.

I just had one these idiots report me and ask the mod my post was a violation. Didn't like my opinion is what it was. And I can't defend myself, there's nowhere for me to go and if I stand to the mods when they actually agree with the idiot who reported me, I get in more trouble than the guy who abused the report button. These idiots need to be strangled with their mouse and then all will be right with the world.

[A New Dawn]

Spite reporting seems to be getting to be a problem all over the place. I could have been the OP in another debate forum. :sigh:

The issue of spite reporting needs to be looked into.

[tapero]

I just had one these idiots report me and ask the mod my post was a violation. Didn't like my opinion is what it was. And I can't defend myself, there's nowhere for me to go and if I stand to the mods when they actually agree with the idiot who reported me, I get in more trouble than the guy who abused the report button. These idiots need to be strangled with their mouse and then all will be right with the world.

Hi, anytime you are reported you can view the report and post in it. When a post gets reported a yellow triangle appears bottom left of the reported post and ther person reported (who's post it is) can click on that symbol and brings them into the report.

If have a problem can pm a staffer and give thread link and ask them for a link to the report. If the report is still open can view it and post in it.

Once the report is closed, members can't view them.

As regards appealing actions, you go to the staff list upper right on any page, and locate staffer name who sent you a pm, and hit feedback and there is a form there for appealing.

If is on a different staffer than who sent the pm, can do same thing.

Once you hit staff button to find a mod, then up comes two more staff menus, and the left menu is in alphabetical order and in that one you would click on the team of the mod, which brings you into menu with the feedback buttons.

[Lel]

This is not just a problem in the politics forum. It isn't necessarily 'spite' reporting, either, sometimes it is 'I'm outraged that your opinion is different than mine; it must be against the rules' reporting. I decided to add to this thread because I just ran into another instance of it in E&M, where someone was reported for a post that was essentially just a disagreement (and possibly a lack of word comprehension on the part of the reporter) - no slander, etc., involved.

It's most likely the post will, in a day or so, be ruled NV. That would be fine, except the reported member has been harmed. There has been a report symbol on his post for all to see for a day or so. His discourse in the thread has been interrupted by having to figure out why he's been reported and if he's actually violated a rule. He can no longer speak as freely as he originally did, since he now knows at least one unknown person thinks he doesn't sufficiently understand CF's rules.

The reporter 'wins' by default, whether a violation is detected or not, the moment the 'yellow flag of infamy' goes up on the member's post. Threads move on. Everyone notices a reported post. Not many go back to see if the flag's been lifted.

This is yet another reason why reports should be open, so members can see why a post has been reported, how staff are handling it, and note when a 'no violation' is the decision. It would to some extent take the wind out of the sails of this kind of reporter.

Ironically, you have made a great argument for turning reports back to being completely closed, with a person not even being notified that their post was reported.

[Bombila]

Ironically, you have made a great argument for turning reports back to being completely closed, with a person not even being notified that their post was reported.

Explain, please?

[Glaz]

I feel your pain Ringo, every time I log in the last week, I have 4-5 PM's from Chrisbot about reports against me, and the vast majority have ended up 'NV'. It's ridiculous, people aren't even trying to debate, they just wait for a few people to post so they can find something to report them for.

[Amoranemix]

Such is not a political discussion so there was no other place for it, which is why was moved here. There is a redirect from where it was to here so if any were interested in participating they could come here.Political discussion or not, that doesn't prevent the right place for it to be the political discussion section. Since we have already a thread on inappropriate reports, this thread should be a discussion about the problems of the political discussion section for which we want mainly the people of that area to participate. How do we get them to participate ? By having the discussion right in their middle. The redirect has already dropped to page 5.

Amoranemix : Staff are allowed to turn regular posts into rule violations.
Panzerkampfwagen : But to twist the word 'is?'
I am not in the loop about what is and isn't tolerated, but I don't see why twisting the meaning of the word 'is' wouldn't be allowed.

It's most likely the post will, in a day or so, be ruled NV. That would be fine, except the reported member has been harmed. There has been a report symbol on his post for all to see for a day or so. His discourse in the thread has been interrupted by having to figure out why he's been reported and if he's actually violated a rule. He can no longer speak as freely as he originally did, since he now knows at least one unknown person thinks he doesn't sufficiently understand CF's rules.
The reporter 'wins' by default, whether a violation is detected or not, the moment the 'yellow flag of infamy' goes up on the member's post. Threads move on. Everyone notices a reported post. Not many go back to see if the flag's been lifted.I think the only potential harm is psychological. Being reported does not mean one has done something wrong and other members should not view it that way. As long as there was no ruling I think the member can ignore the report. Of course, some staff being incompetent, there is the risk that if one does not adapt ones posting style or content, subsequent posts may be violated as well

You'ld think the staff of "Christian Forums" would be called to a somewhat higher standard.Christians have taught me on average that I shouldn't hold them to higher standards. Power corrupts them too.

Another thread about spite reporting has resurfaced : christianforums.com/t7045508-report-reform.html. Thus we have tree of them now, unless I missed some.

[RealDealNeverstop]

This is not just a problem in the politics forum. It isn't necessarily 'spite' reporting, either, sometimes it is 'I'm outraged that your opinion is different than mine; it must be against the rules' reporting. I decided to add to this thread because I just ran into another instance of it in E&M, where someone was reported for a post that was essentially just a disagreement (and possibly a lack of word comprehension on the part of the reporter) - no slander, etc., involved.

It's most likely the post will, in a day or so, be ruled NV. That would be fine, except the reported member has been harmed. There has been a report symbol on his post for all to see for a day or so. His discourse in the thread has been interrupted by having to figure out why he's been reported and if he's actually violated a rule. He can no longer speak as freely as he originally did, since he now knows at least one unknown person thinks he doesn't sufficiently understand CF's rules.

The reporter 'wins' by default, whether a violation is detected or not, the moment the 'yellow flag of infamy' goes up on the member's post. Threads move on. Everyone notices a reported post. Not many go back to see if the flag's been lifted.

This is yet another reason why reports should be open, so members can see why a post has been reported, how staff are handling it, and note when a 'no violation' is the decision. It would to some extent take the wind out of the sails of this kind of reporter.

Very good points. The problem is there is no recourse for those who abuse the report button and I've actually seen staff try to sway violations on the basis of "well he has had a lot of reports lately" which is totally irrelevent if the majority of posts are ruled nv. There are no easy solutions because there will always be thin skinned posters and those who seek any way of flaming others. Heck, look at how the Tag feature on threads is being used. It's basically nothing more than amnesty for flaming thread starters.