Nothing wrong with abortion

[nitecrawlur]

I responded to the previous thread on abortion, but I decided to start my own idea. When women choose not have sex, they are murdering potential life. The potential child has no choice in the matter. So if you don't support abortion, would it not make sense to allow as much life as possible an opportunity by having sex during every cycle?

And what about birth control? Is that going against what your God wants as well?

Also, these unborn are less likely to be capable of suffering than children or adults. Yet conservative religiousity is responsible for murder upon children without justification throughout history. Not only that but this murder is told in stories (the Bible) as if it were something to be proud of.

So, abortion is completely ok in my book. As well as stem cell research which I'm sure there aren't too many people here that support that either. However is some discovery was made because of that research that eventually saved one of your family members, you would support then though, right?

[HypnoToad]

I responded to the previous thread on abortion, but I decided to start my own idea. When women choose not have sex, they are murdering potential life. The potential child has no choice in the matter. So if you don't support abortion, would it not make sense to allow as much life as possible an opportunity by having sex during every cycle?
Flawed logic.

Abortion ends a human life - not a "potential" human life. Apples & oranges.

And what about birth control? Is that going against what your God wants as well?Can you point out Scripture to support this? Or, are you just plucking the idea out of thin air?

Also, these unborn are less likely to be capable of suffering than children or adults. Yet conservative religiousity is responsible for murder upon children without justification throughout history. Not only that but this murder is told in stories (the Bible) as if it were something to be proud of.What "murders" are you speaking of?

[nitecrawlur]

The murders such as God killing the first born of the people enslaved the Isrealites. Those children were killed for the sins of their fathers. When most of which were too young to know what was right or wrong, yet paid the price anyway.

What about in Numbers 31:18
That verse implies that all female children to be raped and murdered. It doesn't say that specifically (18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves). If you read that whole scenerio, many innocent are killed in the process simply for believing something other than Christianity. But the most disturbing is obviously the rapeing and murdering of little girls. The genocide is the main injustice, the rape and murder is a by product but no less unjustified.

[nitecrawlur]

The whole Bible revolves around plucking ideas out of thin air. Very little evidence can support what the Bible passes off as historical fact. Infact, so little evidence is available that it shouldn't even be considered theology since theories are based on evidence such as the big bang theory. It's not fact, however more evidence alludes to it being true which is what makes it a credible theory. A God, however, which has no evidence to support it/him, is nothing less than an idea plucked out of thin air by people with little or no scientific education.

[HypnoToad]

The murders such as God killing the first born of the people enslaved the Isrealites. Those children were killed for the sins of their fathers. When most of which were too young to know what was right or wrong, yet paid the price anyway.

What about in Numbers 31:18
That verse implies that all female children to be raped and murdered. It doesn't say that specifically (18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves). If you read that whole scenerio, many innocent are killed in the process simply for believing something other than Christianity. But the most disturbing is obviously the rapeing and murdering of little girls. The genocide is the main injustice, the rape and murder is a by product but no less unjustified.
God created all life and has the authority to determine when it should end.

The whole Bible revolves around plucking ideas out of thin air. Very little evidence can support what the Bible passes off as historical fact. Infact, so little evidence is available that it shouldn't even be considered theology since theories are based on evidence such as the big bang theory. It's not fact, however more evidence alludes to it being true which is what makes it a credible theory. A God, however, which has no evidence to support it/him, is nothing less than an idea plucked out of thin air by people with little or no scientific education.
So, you are admitting you have no basis for the idea of contraception being against God's will.

[twistedsketch]

I responded to the previous thread on abortion, but I decided to start my own idea. When women choose not have sex, they are murdering potential life.
No they are not.

[nitecrawlur]

if abortion is wrong than what about contraception? That is preventing life. It would not be our place (assuming a devine being exists) to determine when life should and should not occur or end for that matter, which is why murder is not accepted in most cultures.

The basis for this idea is if we aren't supposed to take life, what gives us the right to prevent it?

[nitecrawlur]

why are women not killing potential life by not having sex? or men for refusing to have sex with a woman?
How is this not killing potential life?

[SpiritualAntiseptic]

why are women not killing potential life by not having sex? or men for refusing to have sex with a woman?
How is this not killing potential life?

You can't kill potential life.

You can only kill something that exists. Abortion is the destruction of a human being. A fetus isn't a potential life, just like a three year old isn't a potential life. A fetus is a living thing, it exists.

That's the difference in perspectives about abortion. Pro-choicers view fetuses as potential life. So for them, to be against aboriton, you might as well be against any prevention for the possibility of life. Whereas pro-lifers view a fetus as living, human beings. To destroy them would be like killing a child.

[nitecrawlur]

Sorry I phrased it incorrectly, what I meant was "kill the potential for life"

[SpiritualAntiseptic]

Sorry I phrased it incorrectly, what I meant was "kill the potential for life"

You can't kill the potential for life. You can only kill something that exists. You can't destroy something that is only potentiality- it doesn't exist. It only has the potential to exist.

[nitecrawlur]

potential does exist, a religious person should know that just because you can't see, touch, smell, taste, or feel something doesn't mean it isn't there.

For example, "I am potentially a good hockey player" the potential exists otherwise there would be no possiblitly for me to be a good hockey player.

[NewGuy101]

potential does exist, a religious person should know that just because you can't see, touch, smell, taste, or feel something doesn't mean it isn't there.

For example, "I am potentially a good hockey player" the potential exists otherwise there would be no possiblitly for me to be a good hockey player.
there was no potential life in the first place if there was no union amount two parents

thats like saying there is potential murder if I thought about doing it and I didn't do it

more flawed logic in your part

[SpiritualAntiseptic]

potential does exist, a religious person should know that just because you can't see, touch, smell, taste, or feel something doesn't mean it isn't there.

That's not potentiality. Those are objects or concepts that are not perceived by the senses.

For example, "I am potentially a good hockey player" the potential exists otherwise there would be no possiblitly for me to be a good hockey player.

The potentiality is present, that doesn't mean it exists. You are confusing words and substituting one for the other rather than grasping the fundamental concepts themselves.

But even playing with your words, to say that potentiality for something to exist is different from the thing existing itself.

[nitecrawlur]

how can something be present and not exist at the same time?

pres·ent //
1.being, existing, or occurring at this time or now; current: the present ruler.

To say it is present and not exist makes no sense. Perhaps I am misinterpreting what you are trying to say.

[SpiritualAntiseptic]

how can something be present and not exist at the same time?

pres·ent //
1.being, existing, or occurring at this time or now; current: the present ruler.

To say it is present and not exist makes no sense. Perhaps I am misinterpreting what you are trying to say.


Potentiality is the possibility of an objecting existing.
Whether or not potentiality as existence can be considered a form of existence or not is of little consequence or importance. It's an argument over definition of words.

Two haploid (gamete) cells hold the potential to life. One diploid cell is life- it is a unique individual. There is no potentiality whereas the other is pure potentiality.

Humans have no potentiality to being human, as we exist.
Embryos have no potentiality to being human, as they exist.
An egg and sperm cells have full potentiality to be human, but do not exist as humans.

[nitecrawlur]

That is correct potential is the possibility of an object existing.

without the egg, there is no potential and vice versa.

Therefore if one male/female refuses a sexual opportunity, that is killing the potential that does exist since the sperm and egg have the potential of converging and yet doesn't because one or the other deny's it.

[HypnoToad]

... that is killing the potential ...
Which is still not a human being.

[nitecrawlur]

but it is preventing something from becoming human, you're taking it's opportunity away before it has a chance

[HypnoToad]

but it is preventing something from becoming human, you're taking it's opportunity away before it has a chance
Which is not "murder". "Murder" is ending a human life, not preventing one from occurring in the first place.

Any other terms you wish to re-define to fit your argument?

[nitecrawlur]

Potentiality is the possibility of an objecting existing.
Whether or not potentiality as existence can be considered a form of existence or not is of little consequence or importance. It's an argument over definition of words.

Two haploid (gamete) cells hold the potential to life. One diploid cell is life- it is a unique individual. There is no potentiality whereas the other is pure potentiality.

Humans have no potentiality to being human, as we exist.
Embryos have no potentiality to being human, as they exist.
An egg and sperm cells have full potentiality to be human, but do not exist as humans.
po·ten·tial //
1.possible, as opposed to actual2.capable of being or becoming
pres·ent //
1.being, existing, or occurring at this time or now

You then said before that"You can't kill the potential for life. You can only kill something that exists(is present)"

You seem to be re-defining to fit an argument. You said "The potentiality is present (or existing)..."

You are clearly contradicting yourself, which is probably why you continually reword your statements. You argue this an argument of definition of words. Without definition words are meaningless.

My logic may be flawed, but you seem to lack it entirely.

[FaultySurplus]

Wow. Where does one start on this one?

First, you completely misrepresented Numbers 31:18. I suggest another reading of the entire passage.

Second, am I killing my green bean plants if I choose not to plant any this year? Please be consistent in your answer then reflect of any apparant absurdity you may, or may not, discover.

Third, A God, however, which has no evidence to support it/him, is nothing less than an idea plucked out of thin air by people with little or no scientific education.

There is plenty of evidence proving God's existence. I suggest reading Romans, after you're finished with Numbers, to get an idea where to start looking.

[nitecrawlur]

Wow. Where does one start on this one?

First, you completely misrepresented Numbers 31:18. I suggest another reading of the entire passage.

Second, am I killing my green bean plants if I choose not to plant any this year? Please be consistent in your answer then reflect of any apparant absurdity you may, or may not, discover.

Third,

There is plenty of evidence proving God's existence. I suggest reading Romans, after you're finished with Numbers, to get an idea where to start looking.
The Bible hardly offers any proof of God's existance.

That's like me saying "if you need proof of clouds being made of vapor read a science book". That's not proof. Proof is you being able to go in a plane yourself and seeing for yourself that it is made of vapor.

[MrJim]

All this potential action reminds me of the "Department of Pre-Crime"



http://images.allposters.com/images/140/039_minority_report.jpg

[Hentenza]

The Bible hardly offers any proof of God's existance.

That's like me saying "if you need proof of clouds being made of vapor read a science book". That's not proof. Proof is you being able to go in a plane yourself and seeing for yourself that it is made of vapor.

Have you ever stuck your hand out of an airplane and touched the vapor? Did the window of the airplane fogged with this vapor? How could you tell that it was, in fact, vapor?

[nitecrawlur]

Have you ever stuck your hand out of an airplane and touched the vapor? Did the window of the airplane fogged with this vapor? How could you tell that it was, in fact, vapor?
I sincerely hope that you don't believe that clouds aren't made of vapor.

With proper equipment you can prove that it is, "in fact", vapor from a plane.

BTW, you don't need to get in a plane, just drive in the fog (cloud at ground level) and stick your hand out he window. Will it not get wet from collecting water vapor particles out of the air?

[freshjiv]

to be anti-abortion is to burn in hell. We are humans, we can make whatever choices we want. If you want to not have a kid yet, don't. If the definition of human is being able to exercise conscious thought, then a fetus is not human. Sorry you religious zealots. Good luck getting to "Beulahland"

[GreenMunchkin]

to be anti-abortion is to burn in hell. We are humans, we can make whatever choices we want. If you want to not have a kid yet, don't. If the definition of human is being able to exercise conscious thought, then a fetus is not human. Sorry you religious zealots. Good luck getting to "Beulahland"Heh!! Thanks for the lulz :D

[Polycarp_fan]

I responded to the previous thread on abortion, but I decided to start my own idea. When women choose not have sex, they are murdering potential life.

Science has shattered your position here. All a woman could possibly end the life of is an ovum. Not a completed person. It is a natural thing that an ovum unfertilized goes bye-bye. Another one takes its place shortly atfer the room hs been made clean.

The potential child has no choice in the matter. So if you don't support abortion, would it not make sense to allow as much life as possible an opportunity by having sex during every cycle?

Can you call my wife? An ovum is an ovum. Once it is fertilized all of the components for the individual human is present. Just like finding a disembodied finger in a alley, the DNA proves "who" it is.

And what about birth control? Is that going against what your God wants as well?

Probably. But not putting a match to sticks prevents a forrest fire. But don't tell my wife that.;)

Also, these unborn are less likely to be capable of suffering than children or adults.

Muffled screams are just as loud as unmuffled screams coming out of a victim's mouth. Your example here is creepy.

Yet conservative religiousity is responsible for murder upon children without justification throughout history.

How so? Actualy "by the numbers" it looks like atheist-based social movements leads the way in the genocide department by a very large margin.

Not only that but this murder is told in stories (the Bible) as if it were something to be proud of.

Where is it made a pride thing to wipe away the sinful? What do you think the prison system does?

So, abortion is completely ok in my book.

How lucky you are to have escaped being a story in it. It wouldn't have even exited then, for you to be able to write the words: "So, abortion is completely ok in my book." How interesting that you seem to be enjoying your "life."

As well as stem cell research which I'm sure there aren't too many people here that support that either.

Supporting the slave trade and "muder for medicines" is not something a conservative Christian is likely to agree to.

However is some discovery was made because of that research that eventually saved one of your family members, you would support then though, right?

Probably yes. I take my kids to the Hospital ER when I know that that Hospital is responsible for bankrupting many, many, many familes that cannot pay the bills for being saved at that Hospital.

How many drugs have come from the slaughter and torture of innocent animals? How many civilizations are built on the tops of those smashed to make way for the new one?

Humans are a very cruel lot.

It is Jesus that takes us out of that loop.

[KahanistChristianNoahide]

I can only assume that this is a wind up...