John 9 - The Blind?

[IntoTheCrimsonSky]

Hey Everyone,

Came across this while reading the other night. I've read it before, many times, but never really clicked it...What are your thoughts?

John 9 -
35 Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when He had found him, He said to him, “Do you believe in the Son of God?”
36 He answered and said, “Who is He, Lord, that I may believe in Him?”
37 And Jesus said to him, “You have both seen Him and it is He who is talking with you.”
38 Then he said, “Lord, I believe!” And he worshiped Him. 39 And Jesus said, “For judgment I have come into this world, that those who do not see may see, and that those who see may be made blind.”
40 Then some of the Pharisees who were with Him heard these words, and said to Him, “Are we blind also?”
41 Jesus said to them, “If you were blind, you would have no sin; but now you say, ‘We see.’ Therefore your sin remains.

The parts in bright blue above are what I'm making reference to, in particular..

In verse 41 I always understood that as meaning sin is only sin if you know it is. If you don't know the truth (are blind to it), then God does not judge it as sin against you. Correct?

If that's the case, then, what does Jesus mean in verse 39 when he says those who see may be made blind? I don't get it, for some reason. :scratch:

Blessings and Love,
Sarah

[AndrewK788]

Hey Everyone,

Came across this while reading the other night. I've read it before, many times, but never really clicked it...What are your thoughts?

John 9 -
35 Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when He had found him, He said to him, “Do you believe in the Son of God?”
36 He answered and said, “Who is He, Lord, that I may believe in Him?”
37 And Jesus said to him, “You have both seen Him and it is He who is talking with you.”
38 Then he said, “Lord, I believe!” And he worshiped Him. 39 And Jesus said, “For judgment I have come into this world, that those who do not see may see, and that those who see may be made blind.”
40 Then some of the Pharisees who were with Him heard these words, and said to Him, “Are we blind also?”
41 Jesus said to them, “If you were blind, you would have no sin; but now you say, ‘We see.’ Therefore your sin remains.

The parts in bright blue above are what I'm making reference to, in particular..

In verse 41 I always understood that as meaning sin is only sin if you know it is. If you don't know the truth (are blind to it), then God does not judge it as sin against you. Correct?

If that's the case, then, what does Jesus mean in verse 39 when he says those who see may be made blind? I don't get it, for some reason. :scratch:

Blessings and Love,
Sarah

That's a very good question! In my opinion it is a way of saying he will simply harden the Pharisees' hearts in a sense, just like Pharoah in Egypt. I think it was his way of saying since the Pharisees knew he was the Messiah and rejected him, He was going to allow them to continue down that path until their ruin. Maybe that's just me who thinks that though. I probably explained it more complicated than it needed to be though. I'm sure others have a better answer for you though. ;)

[IntoTheCrimsonSky]

That's a very good question! In my opinion it is a way of saying he will simply harden the Pharisees' hearts in a sense, just like Pharoah in Egypt. I think it was his way of saying since the Pharisees knew he was the Messiah and rejected him, He was going to allow them to continue down that path until their ruin. Maybe that's just me who thinks that though. I probably explained it more complicated than it needed to be though. I'm sure others have a better answer for you though. ;)
Hi there. :)

That's a really interesting idea. Hadn't thought of it that way! You could be right. Although, maybe more in a sense that He allows those who see to make themselves blind...? I think you might have said that in a round about way, though. *lol*

I wonder what others think. :)

[AndrewK788]

As I said, I probably made it more complicated than it needed to be. But I think you god my point. :thumbsup:

[OntheDL]

Hey Everyone,

The parts in bright blue above are what I'm making reference to, in particular..

In verse 41 I always understood that as meaning sin is only sin if you know it is. If you don't know the truth (are blind to it), then God does not judge it as sin against you. Correct?

If that's the case, then, what does Jesus mean in verse 39 when he says those who see may be made blind? I don't get it, for some reason. :scratch:

Blessings and Love,
Sarah

That's opposite of the physically blind but through faith was given sight. Those who are not blind physical however through their unbelief was made spiritual blind.

So you understood it correctly. While it's still a sin to break God's law if you didn't know it, the blood of Jesus covers it. It's called the sin of ignorance.

Leviticus 4
1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
2 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a soul shall sin through ignorance against any of the commandments of the LORD concerning things which ought not to be done, and shall do against any of them:
...
27 And if any one of the common people sin through ignorance, while he doeth somewhat against any of the commandments of the LORD concerning things which ought not to be done, and be guilty;
28 Or if his sin, which he hath sinned, come to his knowledge: then he shall bring his offering, a kid of the goats, a female without blemish, for his sin which he hath sinned.

In fact, only the sin of ignorance is covered by the blood of Christ. The bible gives no provision for willful sins.

[IntoTheCrimsonSky]

That's opposite of the physically blind but through faith was given sight. Those who are not blind physical however through their unbelief was made spiritual blind.

So you understood it correctly. While it's still a sin to break God's law if you didn't know it, the blood of Jesus covers it. It's called the sin of ignorance.

Leviticus 4
1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
2 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a soul shall sin through ignorance against any of the commandments of the LORD concerning things which ought not to be done, and shall do against any of them:
...
27 And if any one of the common people sin through ignorance, while he doeth somewhat against any of the commandments of the LORD concerning things which ought not to be done, and be guilty;
28 Or if his sin, which he hath sinned, come to his knowledge: then he shall bring his offering, a kid of the goats, a female without blemish, for his sin which he hath sinned.

In fact, only the sin of ignorance is covered by the blood of Christ. The bible gives no provision for willful sins.
So, the first part, mentioning those who are blind that will be able to see...is in reference only to physically blind people who will then be able to see spiritually? :scratch:

[capnator]

That's opposite of the physically blind but through faith was given sight. Those who are not blind physical however through their unbelief was made spiritual blind.

So you understood it correctly. While it's still a sin to break God's law if you didn't know it, the blood of Jesus covers it. It's called the sin of ignorance.

Leviticus 4
1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
2 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a soul shall sin through ignorance against any of the commandments of the LORD concerning things which ought not to be done, and shall do against any of them:
...
27 And if any one of the common people sin through ignorance, while he doeth somewhat against any of the commandments of the LORD concerning things which ought not to be done, and be guilty;
28 Or if his sin, which he hath sinned, come to his knowledge: then he shall bring his offering, a kid of the goats, a female without blemish, for his sin which he hath sinned.

In fact, only the sin of ignorance is covered by the blood of Christ. The bible gives no provision for willful sins.

I'd just like to clarify on no provision for willful sins. Eve was not ignorant of God's command when she ate the fruit, David knew the commandments when he took Bethsheba and killed her husband. Solomon also knew right from wrong... they were all forgiven! so there is provision made for their sins.

There is a lot written about turning from our wickedness when we backslide. Are you saying that Christ automatically covers ignorant sins committed by those that have given their lives to his keeping? But if we sin willfully Christ cannot do anything about this unless we repent and turn from our wicked ways.

[OntheDL]

I'd just like to clarify on no provision for willful sins. Eve was not ignorant of God's command when she ate the fruit, David knew the commandments when he took Bethsheba and killed her husband. Solomon also knew right from wrong... they were all forgiven! so there is provision made for their sins.

There is a lot written about turning from our wickedness when we backslide. Are you saying that Christ automatically covers ignorant sins committed by those that have given their lives to his keeping? But if we sin willfully Christ cannot do anything about this unless we repent and turn from our wicked ways.

This has to do with how the plan of salvation works.

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins.

When you look at the offerings for sin, there is no sacrifice for the willful sins.

After David repented his sins, did he make a sacrifice to cover them? No. Because there is no provision for them. David should have been stoned had he not been the king. No blood could have covered them except for his own.

Had David died before Nathan spoke to him, he would have been lost for eternity.

The reason David was not struck down, you and I are not struck down every time we willfully sin is because of the grace of God. When we sin willfully, we turn away from God and leave ourselves outside of the door of the tabernacle. It does not mean the person is lost for ever, but when he/she repents, he has to begin at the cross in the outer court again for the justification.

The blood of Christ covers the ignorant/innocent sins. This is why if a child dies before he/she reaches the age of accountability, the child is saved. When a believer commits a sin of ignorance, if he/she repents he remains in the Holy Place, the person remains justified. This is the sanctification phase.

Hope you see the difference.

[OntheDL]

So, the first part, mentioning those who are blind that will be able to see...is in reference only to physically blind people who will then be able to see spiritually? :scratch:

Sarah,

The object lesson from the story is not much about this world. Sure Jesus healed the blind physically too.

However as Jesus said the pharisees were physically able, yet are spiritually blind. Which is worse?

Matt 5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

[Mankin]

edit.

[OntheDL]

I'm sorry but I have to speak out. This statement In fact, only the sin of ignorance is covered by the blood of Christ. The bible gives no provision for willful sins.


Is utter blasphemy. Not only is this not the Christ I serve but it is not the Christ that Martin Luther sought for. That statement is not only blashemous but completely and utterly unbiblical.:sick:

There is no need to report this post for I will not be posting in this thread again.

Thank you

Thank you for not posting here again because you shouldn't have posted the last one. Please stop the guerrilla tactic.

Blasphemous and utterly unbiblical?

Maybe you don't have this verse in your bible.

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

The blood of Christ does not cover willful sins. Because it is a rebellion.

[OntheDL]

Yet some more.

2 Peter 2
20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

Ezekiel 18:24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

If the shoe fits, change. Don't hate the truth. It wouldn't have changed a thing in the end.

[Mankin]

edit.