Mental Health Views

[ElsanRandiMom]

What are Messianic and/or Jewish perspectives on mental health issues such as depression, anxiety, bipolar disorder, OCD, etc? Are there any (I would assume so since so much of the rest of life is covered)? What would be religiously inspired routes to deal with it in your belief?

[Lulav]

Right now you ask us about mental health as we scramble to get ready for Pasach! :eek:

Maybe next week, right now everyone is getting ready and most can barely think straight as the clock ticks on..................

I do have a detailed answer for you, just can't stop to do it, just thought I would respond to you though.

There are hints in the gospels as well as in the tanack.

[visionary]

We won't forget your question..

[ElsanRandiMom]

We won't forget your question..
thx

I know you guys are swamped

[FaithfulWife]

May I tell you something funny? I have to admit I love when people ask me questions like this and here's why. ElsanRandiMom, what is the christian view of mental health issues? Are there any? What would be religiously routes to deal with mental illness according to christianity? :P

The reason I ask you right back is because I know there are many different answers to that question according to christian tradition and beliefs. Some christians believe there are mental illnesses, that they are a physical illness, and that God heals through counselor and drugs. Other christians believe that mental illness is really demon possession, that God heals miraculously through casting out the demon, and that no counselors or drugs are needs. And still other christians (or denominations) believe mental illness is caused by sin and our sin nature, and that if we straighten out the sin and get right with God, we will straighten out the mental illness!

OY VEY!

So in a way, the "christian" answer would be "it depends on your denomination and whether your personal beliefs 100% follow your denominations doctrines" or something to that effect.

Same here! There is not one "Jewish" doctrine nor is there one "Messianic" belief on curing mental illness. Some people who are orthodox observant Messianic Jews might answer differently than people who are reformed observant Messianic Jews--and even orthodox observant Messianic Jews will answer differently than orthodox observant JEWS because the Messiah makes the difference!

If you would like, I can tell you what *I* believe and why. :D

[ElsanRandiMom]

May I tell you something funny? I have to admit I love when people ask me questions like this and here's why. ElsanRandiMom, what is the christian view of mental health issues? Are there any? What would be religiously routes to deal with mental illness according to christianity? :P

The reason I ask you right back is because I know there are many different answers to that question according to christian tradition and beliefs. Some christians believe there are mental illnesses, that they are a physical illness, and that God heals through counselor and drugs. Other christians believe that mental illness is really demon possession, that God heals miraculously through casting out the demon, and that no counselors or drugs are needs. And still other christians (or denominations) believe mental illness is caused by sin and our sin nature, and that if we straighten out the sin and get right with God, we will straighten out the mental illness!

OY VEY!

So in a way, the "christian" answer would be "it depends on your denomination and whether your personal beliefs 100% follow your denominations doctrines" or something to that effect.

Same here! There is not one "Jewish" doctrine nor is there one "Messianic" belief on curing mental illness. Some people who are orthodox observant Messianic Jews might answer differently than people who are reformed observant Messianic Jews--and even orthodox observant Messianic Jews will answer differently than orthodox observant JEWS because the Messiah makes the difference!

If you would like, I can tell you what *I* believe and why. :D
there are lots of takes. some say it is because you are posessed. some say you lack faith. some say it is an illness you should pray to be cured of.

the list goes on and on.

I was just hopeful that the Messianic/Jewish perspective was more reflective of actual truth and tradition of faith than many skewed christian denoms

[Lulav]

Shalom EnRM, first I apologize for being a bit short with you the other day. With the who's online gone I couldn't be sure, but it didn't look as if anyone else were posting and I didn't want your post to go totally unanswered but wanted to offer a reason why it may. :)

I think that FW, answered very profoundly, even for a Calvinist ;) that it depends on where you come from, not just if you are messianic or not. I can give you my view and that of others I've talked with about this but nothing more.

This is what you asked about:

mental health issues such as depression, anxiety, bipolar disorder, OCD,OK, lets start with depression, and I don't want anyone who suffers from this to be offended, ok, ? :hug:

I believe this is not of G-d. Those who have Messiah should be living in the Joy of that. Sure, there are things that do depress us, and the bible even speaks about it. I will look up some verses for you later. But to remain so for a long period of time is not of G-d and should be prayed about.

I live by this verse.

WEEPING MAY ENDURE FOR A NIGHT, BUT JOY COMETH IN THE MORNING. Psalms 30:5This is to show that even though we are 'normally' to experience pain and sorrow, we must keep it in perspective and I myself have experienced this over and over again. You may be in heart wenching agony, or sorrow or dispare, but after the time passes from a nights sleep then you must awake with thankfulness to HaShem for watching over you during the night and for giving you the rest you needed, for putting your breath back in you ( more spiritual than physical) and that your eyes are open and can see the new day, the sun shine , hear the birds singing, even just your own voice praising the L-RD. Now is a new beginning, we can't recapture yesterday, nor control tomorrow, but today we have all the hopes and dreams and possibilities that we can imagine and with G-d anything is possible! That is the Joy we should know and expect for in the morning.

Now as far as anxiety. Again I have experienced this and can tell you how I handle it, with prayer, if I am not capable, then I ask another to pray for me. But the most important thing is trust, trust in the L-RD that he will be with you, and will go through whatever it is you are anxious about, and will always be there, always! And if you concentrate on that, you will wonder afterwards what you were so anxious about and just pray for his Shalom to envelope you and guard you as you put your total trust in him. That is key, trust in Him.

OCD - I love Monk but one thing I will tell you, is what he displays is a lack of believe in G-d. He is dependent only on what he can see, do, control , he doesn't trust fully anyone and certainly not G-d, this is the biggest missing part of his life, not Trudy. But those who have G-d in their lives, should not be controlled by this, that is if they truly exercise faith in G-d, trusting, that if all important. OCD can also be defined as meaning, 'over control disorder', but this can be helped, if not eliminated by trust, and knowing what we can control and that there are things we can't and to let G-d give us wisdom to know the difference and to trust him to get us through those things we can't control. The more you try and control things, the more hopeless is becomes. And then fear sets in, and as G-ds word tells us, fear is not of G-d!


Now as for mental illnesses in general. A friend of mine is a psychiatrist, he was raised Reform and like a good Jewish boy, grew up to be a doctor. We had a conversation once where I asked him after years of practice, what he though about mental illness now after coming to trust and have faith in Yeshua and he told me that he defiantly thought that much of what he sees and hears from his patients is demonically induced.

So that is all I want to say for now , but I will get you some scriptures if you would like to meditate on.

Shalom!

[HadassahSukkot]

ERM,

IMHO, there are many reasons for mental health issues... and just as many docs, naturopathic doctors\advisors, and psychiatrists and psychologists have trouble nailing it down, so do we.

Sometimes it can be dietary, or hormonal, or true imbalances.. and sometimes -- imho rarely --- it can be possesssion.

I had some serious imbalance issues before that were hormonal, but tied to the dietary issues I have. Square away the diet and suppliment where I was lacking, things evened out. Go figure.

My cousin on the other hand, who is about a year younger than myself cannot do without her "Anti-witchy medicine"... she has a true imbalance that neither diet nor her Hormone replacement medicine has assisted.

My brother on the other hand has issues stemming from a tumor on his pituitary gland. It's thrown *all kinds* of things out of whack, in addition to some abuse issues he's still working through. With verbal abuse being rampant where he's at, he seems ever in an endless circle that can only really be broken with counseling and breaking free of the bad relationships. Surgery on the tumor isn't an option as it is a 50/50 that he'd live thru it, and if he does, he may never do a lot of the things he is able to do now... so he lives with what he can do. His body is really just going all flukey on him.

In my very humble opinion, a lot of it just comes down to the breakdown of all our DNA as prophesied in the beginning, and the only things we can do is the best we can with what we're given, whether it is dietary, suppliment or medication or counseling. :hug:

[yeshuaslavejeff]

....
I was just hopeful that the Messianic/Jewish perspective was more reflective of actual truth and tradition of faith than many skewed christian denoms
..
..
oddly, religious leaders of any popular ilk seem bizarrely inclined to accept the one world governments authority on the matter,
and all of them fight the actual truth. (all of the authority)
..
neatly, as Yahweh has designed/planned, little ones who may not know their left hand from their right hand
may find the truth rather quickly, or over a long time, Yahweh willing,
as they trust/learn to trust the Creator Elohim and Adonai like little ones trust their father.
..
perhaps, though, the most effective way to find out what to do
is simply to find out what the most successful scientists, doctors, and educators have written about that is in accord with The Book.
..
a simple warning is given by Yahweh to everyone:
"whoever trusts in man is cursed"
(I don't know how many times this is repeated all through Scripture, it would take quite some time to find out, I believe)
..
basically, the answer, exactly like the meaning of dreams, rests with Yahweh. simple , pure, and free. (the answer is free, the remedy is almost free)
..

[visionary]

There is a story of a man on the top of the roof of his house and the waters circled around from the on going flooding in the area. He prayed and prayed that God would come and save him. God sent a rescue boat, but he turned them down saying that he is waiting for God. Another rescue boat came by but again he said he is waiting for God to rescue. A helicopter came by telling him this is his last chance, the water from the flood coming will sweep his house away and he will surrely die if he doesn't get in the helicopter now. He refused. He died. Meeting God at the pearly gates, he askes God why didn't He come to save him. God said "Three times I came and you refused."

Moral of the story, we may not recognise God at work.

Why did I tell the story here... Because we often do not know in what method God can rescuse us. Seeking Him with all our heart, takes faith, takes listening, and hearing His voice. He may direct us to certain people, certain herbs, certain verses, and certain doctors. We need the faith of ..... Mt 9:18 While he spake these things unto them, behold, there came a certain ruler, and worshipped him, saying, My daughter is even now dead: but come and lay thy hand upon her, and she shall live.

Mental health is all those things listed in the other posters comments. The answer is also. Each case is different. I believe that "knowing" from a personal relationship Yeshua makes a big difference in the mental health of the believers.

[ElsanRandiMom]

I certainly agree visionary. I think it's a very complex (not one answer) issue.

Do you think all who are mentally ill should seek Him to heal them? Just curious.

[visionary]

I certainly agree visionary. I think it's a very complex (not one answer) issue.

Do you think all who are mentally ill should seek Him to heal them? Just curious.Absolutely... no one is exempt for their need of Him. They maybe even more so, and without Him, how can they "come to their senses"... like the prodical son.

[Kris10leigh]

I agree and disagree with much of what has been said. But that is kind of the point, huh? ;) Visionary, I've heard that story about the roof before and it's a good one to recall.

Mental illness is difficult, mainly because we can't see it. I have a hard time understanding it myself, and yet I have characteristics of it myself. I think we all do. I have ADD, but have learned coping strategies for dealing with it. I can use those coping strategies whenever I need to, though it is exhausting to do so all the time. I can't pray to God to take it away from me, but I can pray to give me strength to cope when I really need to.

I have characteristics of OCD, though not severe by any means. I find that order is refreshing. I can relax when I have order. I can not settle my brain down if I don't have order. That is why people with OCD struggle so with it. As an example, if the rug in the hall is off center, there will be a nagging thought in the mind, "The rug is not right...it's off center...must be fixed....it's not centered." If I just get up and fix the rug, the voice will stop and I find peace.

[ElsanRandiMom]

I am considered strange in many areas of CF because I am bipolar and don't feel I need to be healed of my illneses.... but that it is as much a part of me as say... a birth defect would be. I am as He created me and I believe He can use that to His glory without necessarily having to "fix" me.

[Kris10leigh]

I am considered strange in many areas of CF because I am bipolar and don't feel I need to be healed of my illneses.... but that it is as much a part of me as say... a birth defect would be. I am as He created me and I believe He can use that to His glory without necessarily having to "fix" me.

I was hoping you'd become less evasive as this thread went on. ;) Now I know what you are getting at!

I liken what you are saying to my own ADD. I have toyed with the idea of medication but I feel that it would change who I am. God made me with ADD. For that I am able to hyper focus on things! I couldn't do that if I didn't have ADD. It makes me creative. It makes me a free thinker. It saves me from boredom because my mind is always, always active.

I agree that being bi-polar is a gift from God. A strange gift that we may not understand, but a gift. I believe it should be managed with medications. But doesn't it have SOME benefits that you may not have otherwise? Slap me if I'm crazy! I'll try to reword what I'm not saying very well.

[ElsanRandiMom]

I was hoping you'd become less evasive as this thread went on. ;) Now I know what you are getting at!

I liken what you are saying to my own ADD. I have toyed with the idea of medication but I feel that it would change who I am. God made me with ADD. For that I am able to hyper focus on things! I couldn't do that if I didn't have ADD. It makes me creative. It makes me a free thinker. It saves me from boredom because my mind is always, always active.

I agree that being bi-polar is a gift from God. A strange gift that we may not understand, but a gift. I believe it should be managed with medications. But doesn't it have SOME benefits that you may not have otherwise? Slap me if I'm crazy! I'll try to reword what I'm not saying very well.
I have an insane amount of creativity and a rather bizarre way of thinking which helps me make associations others can't. While I sometimes take medication, like now because I am depressed due to long term illness, I generally can manage myself quite well without it.

[visionary]

Could be a need for more Vit B complex... some medications eat up your supply.

[Kris10leigh]

I have an insane amount of creativity and a rather bizarre way of thinking which helps me make associations others can't. While I sometimes take medication, like now because I am depressed due to long term illness, I generally can manage myself quite well without it.

Bingo, there's the gift. Now it depends on where I am in life as to whether I view it as a gift or a curse. Right now my life is so filled with stress my ADD is getting worse and I'm feeling like it's a curse. But tomorrow when the sun comes up again I'll be able to see the blessings that come of it.

I'm not coming from any religious affiliation with the responses, by the way. It's just how I feel as a person and as a person who visits this board frequently. ;)

[ElsanRandiMom]

Could be a need for more Vit B complex... some medications eat up your supply.
I do that. DH feeds me my vitamins daily (this is his ideation as well)

[HadassahSukkot]

:hug: ERM :hug:

I totally know what you mean. I think if we all thought exactly alike, it would take away a lot of the creativity that G-d has given us, and the fact of the matter is that many medications do stiffle one's way of thinking if you are prone to creativity with your ADD/Asberger's or Autism..

Often diet and supplimentation helps, but not always is it the end all be all.

I found out recently how badly my dad is doing healthwise (really kind of circling the drain in some things, but most of it is that he's chosen to remain depressed about it rather than trying to do the things he can do and relaxing on the ones he can't) -- and many of the people in our community that knew him before he was so bad off are ascribing it all to "it's all in his head".. when it is valid Gulf War Illness + other complications from vaccines the military had him on.

Mom was doing his paperwork to get the VA going and found one of the codes on his "Honorable Discharge" that basically says "do not allow to return to active duty without medical waiver" and we can't even get a Psych to validate it's not in dad's head when our GP and others who have seen him are noticing all that is wrong and it's getting worse and not better. Food makes him sick as well as environmental factors. :(

With my brother's situation as well (loooong story, I'd sooner go into it all in PM or chat than on a forum, he tends to follow me around online sometimes), it's really hard on my mom who is having to deal with it all and 'ping-pong' back and forth with them all.

I thought I was doing really well dealing with it myself until yesterday. I think I just need a good cry and I'll feel better again, as there isn't anything I can do on this end other than pray and request more prayer on it.

[zaksmummy]

[quote=FaithfulWife;46149950]Other christians believe that mental illness is really demon possession, that God heals miraculously through casting out the demon, and that no counselors or drugs are needs.




Anyone who thinks this obviously hasnt ever looked after any mentally ill people!!

[Kris10leigh]

[quote=FaithfulWife;46149950]Other christians believe that mental illness is really demon possession, that God heals miraculously through casting out the demon, and that no counselors or drugs are needs.




Anyone who thinks this obviously hasnt ever looked after any mentally ill people!!

I agree, but it's true. I worked with an autistic little boy who's family performed an exorcism on him. :( As if he wasn't already in a world of hurt, this made him that much worse. It was very traumatic for him.

[HadassahSukkot]

:( I know that had to be traumatic! :(

[Lulav]

I have read all your posts here and see my view isn't popular but also see I left out something.

Most today what is diagnosed as a disease is self serving to a small few. Many of these things didn't exist years ago, and why is that?

It is the fact that the very thing which keeps us alive, food is what is putting many of these diseases upon us. While not demonically induced or possession, what they do is change the very delicate system that G-d created in our workings of our bodies. Even back in Davids day he inspired him to write 'I am fearfully and wonderfully made' He spoke of being 'knit together in the womb, and there are other references. We are a very finely tunes delicate instrument, more so than any medical or electronic equipment and we need to have the correct amount of vitamins, minerals, and trace elements that some haven't even been discovered , to function properly.

If you remove or change the amount or synthesis, or genetically alter any of these things, malfunctions start to happen, some appear sooner than others, some cause a chain reaction, but they do cause damage in our bodies and much can be within our brains as well as in other parts of our bodies. Now this is not, as I said a demon possession, but it is demonically induced by those who have messed and altered the foods you eat, so it is a indirect demonic origin.

This world, especially this country is headed for only doctors prescribing drugs to 'help' with the same diseases they helped to cause in the first place for one main cause, to control mankind.

If you can't do it by force, you do it internally, and with subterfuge.

For instance did you know that the pharmesuetical companies are trying to stop you from obtaining vitamins within the next year? It will be illegal to possess them, because they can't make money from it, nor control you with them, they counteract what they have been doing.

[zaksmummy]

I've worked with mentally ill people for 10 years now and can honestly say that I dont think I've met anyone who was demon possessed.

Overwhelmingly most of the people I've looked after have become ill due to either childhood nurturing (or lack of it, in all its forms) or adult trauma.

Most illnesses have a biological basis, the problem is, as someone has already said, you cant see it, so all you get is the psychological and behavioural side, which can be a bit weird if you dont know what is happening.

[Lulav]

[quote=zaksmummy;46182841]

I agree, but it's true. I worked with an autistic little boy who's family performed an exorcism on him. :( As if he wasn't already in a world of hurt, this made him that much worse. It was very traumatic for him. Yes, and that autism could very well be manifesting from certain ingestions of foods that are altered. They don't teach you to stop eating them, they just give you drugs, and if you have to take drugs you need to have those drugs and your local pharmacy.

[ElsanRandiMom]

I have read all your posts here and see my view isn't popular but also see I left out something.

Most today what is diagnosed as a disease is self serving to a small few. Many of these things didn't exist years ago, and why is that?

It is the fact that the very thing which keeps us alive, food is what is putting many of these diseases upon us. While not demonically induced or possession, what they do is change the very delicate system that G-d created in our workings of our bodies. Even back in Davids day he inspired him to write 'I am fearfully and wonderfully made' He spoke of being 'knit together in the womb, and there are other references. We are a very finely tunes delicate instrument, more so than any medical or electronic equipment and we need to have the correct amount of vitamins, minerals, and trace elements that some haven't even been discovered , to function properly.

If you remove or change the amount or synthesis, or genetically alter any of these things, malfunctions start to happen, some appear sooner than others, some cause a chain reaction, but they do cause damage in our bodies and much can be within our brains as well as in other parts of our bodies. Now this is not, as I said a demon possession, but it is demonically induced by those who have messed and altered the foods you eat, so it is a indirect demonic origin.

This world, especially this country is headed for only doctors prescribing drugs to 'help' with the same diseases they helped to cause in the first place for one main cause, to control mankind.

If you can't do it by force, you do it internally, and with subterfuge.

For instance did you know that the pharmesuetical companies are trying to stop you from obtaining vitamins within the next year? It will be illegal to possess them, because they can't make money from it, nor control you with them, they counteract what they have been doing.
I agree there is overdiagnosis for most people because it's easy... that I can't argue with.... but there are some of us who refuse to use this disorder (or others) as a crutch or excuse and I think that lends a little validation to the type of cause of the illness. Just as people can have diabetes from birth, I believe this has been in me since I was created.

Part of the problem with the assumption about pharmaceutical companies and vitamins is that it is very one sided. You have to consider vitamins are not restricted or governed in any way and can have little or way too much content for healthy use. The pharmaceutical companies will not have the ultimate say, but the FDA (which I think is probably not in need of extra work because they're already falling behind on regular meds). You can also not patent vitamins... hence no corner on the market.

[Lulav]

From Galatians

19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Ok, you say, I don't do any of those, so I'm safe, but are you, or do you?

Lets look at what these as a list.

Adultery -
fornication-
uncleanness-
lasciviousness Idolatry-
witchcraft -
hatred-
variance-
emulations -
wrath -
strife -
seditions -
heresies
Envyings -
murders-
drunkenness
revellings-

Wow, that's along list huh? But looking over it, you will probably say, I don't do those, but some I dont' know what they are but the ones I do know I don't do , or do you?

Now lets look at the meaning behind the words.

Adultery - easy one, this is as it says, Adultery, but this can mean between you and your spouse but it also can mean between you and G-d or Messiah your husband.

fornication- this can be sex without marriage but can also mean homosexuality, bestiality, interfamilia sex and any other outside what G-d ordains, in other words all those listed in Torah to not do. And interesting enough, validating what Messiah said about what Adultery is or fornication, that it includes lust, is that the Greek word that is translated here as 'fornication' is 'porneia' which is where we get our word 'Pornography' from.

uncleanness- this can be any impurity, we must be clean, in heart body, and mind, and there is only one way to do that.

lasciviousness - the greek word used is translated to mean unbridled lust, excess, licentiousness, lasciviousness, wantonness, outrageousness, shamelessness, insolence, basically to sin without remorse or thinking that you are doing no wrong Idolatry- heres a word that is similar in the Greek, Eidololatreia, that shows us that it means to worship other gods, to participate in the feasts and ceremonies done for other gods ( even if you 'call' them something you are doing for the real G-d doesn't mean it is), or loving money or Mammon more than G-d himself.

witchcraft - 'the deceptions and seductions of idolotry' which means having anything to do with the worship or following of other gods, which inevitably lead back to only one, that wants to become G-d. This Greek word should be familiar to you, it's 'Pharmakeia' which is where we get our word 'Pharmaceuticals' and 'Pharmacy' from. :eek:
Now this can mean, poisoning, something to think about. As well as the administering or using of drugs. Many believe this just means 'illegal' drugs but that is man's definition and laws, not G-ds.

hatred-
variance-
emulations -
wrath -
strife -
seditions -
heresies
Envyings -
murders-
drunkenness
revellings-


I am experiencing 'interference' and shall try to finish this later.

[Lulav]

I agree there is overdiagnosis for most people because it's easy... that I can't argue with.... but there are some of us who refuse to use this disorder (or others) as a crutch or excuse and I think that lends a little validation to the type of cause of the illness. Just as people can have diabetes from birth, I believe this has been in me since I was created.

Part of the problem with the assumption about pharmaceutical companies and vitamins is that it is very one sided. You have to consider vitamins are not restricted or governed in any way and can have little or way too much content for healthy use. The pharmaceutical companies will not have the ultimate say, but the FDA (which I think is probably not in need of extra work because they're already falling behind on regular meds). You can also not patent vitamins... hence no corner on the market. The FDA, this is the root that needs to be chopped down. Do we depend on G-d or man to tell us what is good for us?

I have assumed nothing here. ......................

[visionary]

Yes, and that autism could very well be manifesting from certain ingestions of foods that are altered. They don't teach you to stop eating them, they just give you drugs, and if you have to take drugs you need to have those drugs and your local pharmacy.or it could occur from a vaccination reaction.

[Kris10leigh]

I'm getting aggravated with the quotes. Why does it keep giving the wrong names with quotes? Sorry, it's just that twice now in this thread my name has come up as having said something about autism I would never have said (considering it is my field of expertise). It's no one's fault...I'm just aggravated.

[Lulav]

I've noticed that , but it hasn't happened to me, I think some are altering they quotes to only include a part and not checking to make sure all the html is included, like all the brackets.

Are you a nurse Kristi? Doctor?

[yeshuaslavejeff]

fwiw, I was trained in pharmacy tech school and finished high, and worked in pharmacy a number of years.
The only thing I learned in pharmacy school was that they NEVER TELL THE TRUTH.
period.
Carey Reams learned the same lesson a hundred years ago almost,
but I had never heard of him.
Carey Reams gave Yahweh all the credit for the testing developed that could tell what was in a person right or wrong, what was unbalanced, and so on, extremely accurately (more accurate than ANY AMA TESTS.... and only costs a fraction as much)...
the pharmacy
won't let the 'experts' learn anything true in the medical schools.
period.
that is their way.
(greed)
and the Scripture says plainly "pharmakopeia will deceived the whole world"
which is quite evident today, all over the usa anyway.
(look how many will pay 130,000 for a useless toxic treatment
and not pay 350 for a natural cure that has been used for 100 years almost)

the time is almost at an end when you can find out these things publicly. doctors who release this news or who publicly cure their patients are arrested, fined, disbarred, and/or posined.

this is simply true, and very easy to verify for a third grader.
but educated mobs have a very hard time seeing the light sometimes.


however, the world government using CODEX LAW will soon outlaw the cures and make it illegal to even have the remedies on any store shelves. period.

It will be a very very very hard time on earth, according to Scripture the hardest time ever.

[Lulav]

pharmaceuticals have been found in the drinking water supplies of at least 41 million Americans (http://truediscernment.wordpress.com/2008/03/10/pharmaceuticals-have-been-found-in-the-drinking-water-supplies-of-at-least-41-million-americans/)

[zaksmummy]

pharmaceuticals have been found in the drinking water supplies of at least 41 million Americans (http://truediscernment.wordpress.com/2008/03/10/pharmaceuticals-have-been-found-in-the-drinking-water-supplies-of-at-least-41-million-americans/)
Thats probably because so many people take medication. In Britain the water has a permanent supply of the anti-depressant Prozac in it, because so many people are on it that when they wee it out and it has been cleaned and put in to the rivers the chemical compounds of the drugs remain.

[Kris10leigh]

I've noticed that , but it hasn't happened to me, I think some are altering they quotes to only include a part and not checking to make sure all the html is included, like all the brackets.

Are you a nurse Kristi? Doctor?

It happened to me when I was posting, so I don't think that is correct. That's why I don't feel as though I'm blaming anyone, just venting. Something I tried to quote just by hitting the "reply with quotes" button quoated the wrong person. Just another glitch...just another vent.

I'll PM my profession. ;)

[ElsanRandiMom]

The FDA, this is the root that needs to be chopped down. Do we depend on G-d or man to tell us what is good for us?

I have assumed nothing here. ......................
The problem with that is that you surely can rely on God... but to expect the unsaved/unredeemed to do so is flawed. There would be less control than ever because even most Christians do not listen to God.

and I agree. The FDA stinks. I was just making a point that you didnt' share the whole story.

[Lulav]

You seem to find a problem with most what I post, how little or how much doesn't seem to matter. There is so much wrong with and info on the FDA that I don't think anyone would have time to post it all.

Just trying to help, but see it is a moot point.

[ElsanRandiMom]

You seem to find a problem with most what I post, how little or how much doesn't seem to matter. There is so much wrong with and info on the FDA that I don't think anyone would have time to post it all.

Just trying to help, but see it is a moot point.
Why do you take response as negative? I hold nothing against you for your opinion, I just don't necessarily think it was presented in an equivocal way. I, in fact, agreed with you.