"Books of a new order" poll

[Your Neighbor]

"The enemy of souls has sought to bring in the supposition that a great reformation was to take place among Seventh-day Adventists, and that this reformation would consist in giving up the doctrines which stand as the pillars of our faith, and engaging in a process of reorganization. Were this reformation to take place, what would result? The principles of truth that God in His wisdom has given to the remnant church, would be discarded. Our religion would be changed.The fundamental principles that have sustained the work for the last fifty years would be accounted as error. A new organization would be established. Books of a new order would be written. A system of intellectual philosophy would be introduced. The founders of this system would go into the cities, and do a wonderful work. The Sabbath of course, would be lightly regarded, as also the God who created it. Nothing would be allowed to stand in the way of the new movement. The leaders would teach that virtue is better than vice, but God being removed, they would place their dependence on human power, which, without God, is worthless. Their foundation would be built on the sand, and storm and tempest would sweep away the structure." Selected Messages Book 1 (1958), page 204, paragraph 2

A) This "reformation" will NEVER take place
B) This "reformation" HAS ALREADY taken place
C) This "reformation" will take place IN THE FUTURE

[tnp2140]

D. This false 'reformation' has already begun and has been slowly progressing and pulling the church farther away from God.

[TrustAndObey]

Eh, I don't know.....I haven't felt this close to God in a very long time. I'm back in the Word, praying again, begging for wisdom....

Maybe the organization is pulling furhter from God, but I earnestly do not feel like I am. Quite the opposite actually.

[Bourbaki]

"The enemy of souls has sought to bring in the supposition that a great reformation was to take place among Seventh-day Adventists, and that this reformation would consist in giving up the doctrines which stand as the pillars of our faith, and engaging in a process of reorganization. Were this reformation to take place, what would result? The principles of truth that God in His wisdom has given to the remnant church, would be discarded. Our religion would be changed.The fundamental principles that have sustained the work for the last fifty years would be accounted as error. A new organization would be established. Books of a new order would be written. A system of intellectual philosophy would be introduced. The founders of this system would go into the cities, and do a wonderful work. The Sabbath of course, would be lightly regarded, as also the God who created it. Nothing would be allowed to stand in the way of the new movement. The leaders would teach that virtue is better than vice, but God being removed, they would place their dependence on human power, which, without God, is worthless. Their foundation would be built on the sand, and storm and tempest would sweep away the structure." Selected Messages Book 1 (1958), page 204, paragraph 2

A) This "reformation" will NEVER take place
B) This "reformation" HAS ALREADY taken place
C) This "reformation" will take place IN THE FUTURE


You're missing the point. Ellen White was referring to the mission and intent of John Harvey Kellogg. That was the alpha crisis. You need to get updated on the omega.

See
The Spiritualistic Philosophy of A. Graham Maxwell (http://www.everythingimportant.org/seventhdayAdventists/spiritualism.htm)
The Counterfeit Character of God Message (http://www.sdabeaconlight.org/Counterfeit.htm)

[capnator]

The Adventist Church has been attacked, is being attacked and will be attacked. There is great light in Adventism, but many members are sleeping in this light. However the members sleeping doesn't make the light any less bright. A time will come where the church will be shaken to the core "the church" being anyone who wants to take the name Christian. Everyone is has to chose who they will serve. We don't serve church, we serve Jesus Christ the great and almighty God. A lot of church worship happens throughout all denominations and that is an insidious form of idolatry.

Luk 3:8 (http://cf.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Luk&c=3&v=8&t=KJV#8)Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to [our] father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

As for your Quote if you take it in context it is saying the Enemy HAS sought to ...... in other words this is the enemies plan and IF it is successful then it describes the outcomes. That's not to say that the enemy still isn't trying to bring this about.

[Your Neighbor]

As for your Quote if you take it in context it is saying the Enemy HAS sought to ...... in other words this is the enemies plan and IF it is successful then it describes the outcomes. That's not to say that the enemy still isn't trying to bring this about. Yes, I understand. That's why I had option A.

Have there been books of a new order since the statement was published, irrespective of the context?

[mva1985]

"The enemy of souls has sought to bring in the supposition that a great reformation was to take place among Seventh-day Adventists, and that this reformation would consist in giving up the doctrines which stand as the pillars of our faith, and engaging in a process of reorganization. Were this reformation to take place, what would result? The principles of truth that God in His wisdom has given to the remnant church, would be discarded. Our religion would be changed.The fundamental principles that have sustained the work for the last fifty years would be accounted as error. A new organization would be established. Books of a new order would be written. A system of intellectual philosophy would be introduced. The founders of this system would go into the cities, and do a wonderful work. The Sabbath of course, would be lightly regarded, as also the God who created it. Nothing would be allowed to stand in the way of the new movement. The leaders would teach that virtue is better than vice, but God being removed, they would place their dependence on human power, which, without God, is worthless. Their foundation would be built on the sand, and storm and tempest would sweep away the structure." Selected Messages Book 1 (1958), page 204, paragraph 2



The answer is already in the quote itself. I highlighted it in red.

[Bourbaki]

Were this reformation to take place, what would result?The answer is already in the quote itself. I highlighted it in red.

Correct. This is not a prediction that says "this reformation" will take place. The point is a what-if statement.

[Jon0388g]

Eh, I don't know.....I haven't felt this close to God in a very long time. I'm back in the Word, praying again, begging for wisdom....

Maybe the organization is pulling furhter from God, but I earnestly do not feel like I am. Quite the opposite actually.


Individually, the true church of God (not just Adventists) will remain faithful.


Sister White prophecied the last great Omega apostasy is the fall of the Adventist Chruch as an organisation. Are we witnessing this before our very eyes?



Jon

[Jon0388g]

The answer is already in the quote itself. I highlighted it in red.




I wouldn't say so. Notice the highlighted section:



"The enemy of souls has sought to bring in the supposition that a great reformation was to take place amongSeventh-day Adventists, and that this reformation would consist in giving up the doctrines which stand as the pillars of our faith, and engaging in a process of reorganization. Were this reformation to take place, what would result? The principles of truth that God in His wisdom has given to the remnant church, would be discarded. Our religion would be changed.The fundamental principles that have sustained the work for the last fifty years would be accounted as error. A new organization would be established. Books of a new order would be written. A system of intellectual philosophy would be introduced. The founders of this system would go into the cities, and do a wonderful work. The Sabbath of course, would be lightly regarded, as also the God who created it. Nothing would be allowed to stand in the way of the new movement. The leaders would teach that virtue is better than vice, but God being removed, they would place their dependence on human power, which, without God, is worthless. Their foundation would be built on the sand, and storm and tempest would sweep away the structure." Selected Messages Book 1 (1958), page 204, paragraph 2





The enemy has (had) already sought to bring in this supposition. She then goes on to describe what would happen if this were to take place.

I think she definitely is prophecying the state of our church in its decline. One only has to look at every wind of doctrine which blows in these Adventist forums to see confirmation of her predictions.


How often have we heard "I am staying in the church, but wish it would 1)disregard the SOP 2) disregard 1844/the IJ 3) disregard health message 4) loosen the constraints of the Sabbath" ???




Jon

[reddogs]

I wouldn't say so. Notice the highlighted section:






The enemy has (had) already sought to bring in this supposition. She then goes on to describe what would happen if this were to take place.

I think she definitely is prophecying the state of our church in its decline. One only has to look at every wind of doctrine which blows in these Adventist forums to see confirmation of her predictions.


How often have we heard "I am staying in the church, but wish it would 1)disregard the SOP 2) disregard 1844/the IJ 3) disregard health message 4) loosen the constraints of the Sabbath" ???




Jon


We are seeing it happen before our very eyes....

[Bourbaki]

The apostasy is that Seventh-day Adventists have lost the power to discern, have no understanding of the grammatical-historical context of Scripture and the Spirit of prophecy, and wouldn’t know what to do if heresy bit them on the nose.

[Your Neighbor]

Has there been, since Ellen White died:

a "giving up the doctrines which stand as the pillars of our faith, and engaging in a process of reorganization"?

"The principles of truth that God in His wisdom has given to the remnant church" "discarded"?

"The fundamental principles ... accounted as error"?

"Books of a new order" "written"?

"A system of intellectual philosophy"?

"new movement"?

"dependence on human power"?

[OntheDL]

The apostasy is that Seventh-day Adventists have lost the power to discern, have no understanding of the grammatical-historical context of Scripture and the Spirit of prophecy, and wouldn’t know what to do if heresy bit them on the nose.

Do you call yourself a Seventh-day Adventist?

Do you still call the Seventh-day Adventist church Babylon as you have done in the past?

[mva1985]

I wouldn't say so. Notice the highlighted section:






The enemy has (had) already sought to bring in this supposition. She then goes on to describe what would happen if this were to take place.

I think she definitely is prophecying the state of our church in its decline. One only has to look at every wind of doctrine which blows in these Adventist forums to see confirmation of her predictions.


How often have we heard "I am staying in the church, but wish it would 1)disregard the SOP 2) disregard 1844/the IJ 3) disregard health message 4) loosen the constraints of the Sabbath" ???




Jon
Jon,

I respectfully disagree. I think that my answer is correct.

[Bourbaki]

Do you call yourself a Seventh-day Adventist?
Yes, but I prefer to be called a Millerite as it is very shameful to confess being a Seventh-day Adventist.

Do you still call the Seventh-day Adventist church Babylon as you have done in the past?
I have never called the Seventh-day Adventist church Babylon.

[TrustAndObey]

Do you agree with the fundamental beliefs of the Seventh-day Adventist church, Bourbaki?

[Bourbaki]

Do you agree with the fundamental beliefs of the Seventh-day Adventist church, Bourbaki?
T&O,

Are you referring to the official, public profession of faith or to the actual, fundamental, inhouse beliefs that church members are required to obey and not disclose?

[mva1985]

T&O,

Are you referring to the official, public profession of faith or to the actual, fundamental, inhouse beliefs that church members are required to obey and not disclose?

I did not know we had "in house" beliefs that we are required to obey and not disclose to anyone.

News to me!

[tnp2140]

T&O,

Are you referring to the official, public profession of faith or to the actual, fundamental, inhouse beliefs that church members are required to obey and not disclose?

I think T&O is talking about the 28 fundamental beliefs.


Personally I agree with all of them except the Trinity, which we adopted from Babylon :/

[TrustAndObey]

I think T&O is talking about the 28 fundamental beliefs.

Well, technically, yes. He has to agree with them to be a member of this forum because that's what CF considers "membership."

I really didn't have a hidden motive though Bourbaki, I was just curious if you agree to the Seventh-day Adventist doctrine.

I agree with MVA, there isn't a hidden one.

Personally I agree with all of them except the Trinity, which we adopted from Babylon :/

WHY they (the GC) chose the word trinity I'll never know!

[tnp2140]

WHY they (the GC) chose the word trinity I'll never know!

"The General Conference is itself becoming corrupted with wrong sentiments and principles..." TM 359


It's the name and the fact that the doctrine of trinity contains this: "co-eternal" as in the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost being ONE God.

[TrustAndObey]

"The General Conference is itself becoming corrupted with wrong sentiments and principles..." TM 359


It's the name and the fact that the doctrine of trinity contains this: "co-eternal" as in the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost being ONE God.

I believe in one God, but They are one in purpose. Three completely separate Beings (for lack of a better word) with different jobs, but the same purpose.

Jesus was not God the Father nor vice versa.

I believe in the Godhead, but not the "trinity" as most churches define it today.

[tnp2140]

I believe in one God, but They are one in purpose. Three completely separate Beings (for lack of a better word) with different jobs, but the same purpose.

Jesus was not God the Father nor vice versa.

I believe in the Godhead, but not the "trinity" as most churches define it today.

Yes, including ours :/

[OntheDL]

I believe in one God, but They are one in purpose. Three completely separate Beings (for lack of a better word) with different jobs, but the same purpose.

Jesus was not God the Father nor vice versa.

I believe in the Godhead, but not the "trinity" as most churches define it today.

But Isaiah 9:6 refers to Him with the titles of all three.

I don't think in ourl finite mind, we can comprehend the concept of an infinite spiritual being.

[Bourbaki]

I think T&O is talking about the 28 fundamental beliefs.

I thought her point was to see if I had respect for the puppet masters that dictate Seventh-day Adventist belief in precise detail.

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

D. This false 'reformation' has already begun and has been slowly progressing and pulling the church farther away from God.

May it respectfully ask a question or two? It will keep civil and seek to emulate respectful human behavior while doing so.

Why do you think this?

Do your thoughts above refer only to the SDA church or to the whole Body of Christ made up of all believers scattered out in all churches?

It knows EGW wrote about a belief that a fake or counterfeit revival would occur "at the end of time" and precede a true one. She also wrote about the "latter rain" that it would be falling on hearts all around us but we would not perceive it. Assuming (possibly incorrectly?) that you bes referring to revival going on throughout the Body of Christ at large in the world -- and not confined exclusively to questionable emotional exercises some think to be the Holy Spirit -- what, apart from the preconceived notion that a "false" must precede the "true" -- causes you to ascribe that falseness to current revival in particular?

What it bes asking in general: what about the current revival in the world itself, other than referring to the preconceived notion that a false must precede the true, causes you to believe it "false"?

Thank you for your time. It just realised also it bes mapping "revival" onto "reformation" here so please pardon that gaffe. If you wish to address the difference between the two that might be informative as well. Thank you.