Are we to rid our houses of yeast or leaven? A good question

[Lulav]

I was looking around for a short list for Cassie to follow when cleaning and came across this. I think he hits it on the head. What do you think?

Hag HaMatzot: Feast of Unleavened Bread
Are we to rid our houses of yeast or leaven? (http://therefinersfire.org/yeast_or_leaven.htm)

[Lulav]

What is nutritional yeast?

Yellow in color and with a nutty cheesy flavor, nutritional yeast is an inactive yeast that is a favorite amongst many vegans because of its unique flavor and similarity to cheese when added to foods. and I threw mine out years ago! So now I can keep my GF gravy mix. :)

[Lulav]

:scratch: Hmm, no one answered this yet......................the perils of translation.

[Kris10leigh]

:wave: Hi Lulav! I'm reading more these days and replying less. I'm getting too bogged down with the procedures of Passover, this being my first and all. I'm trying to remember why I'm doing this in the first place and trying to keep it simple. So for my family, for THIS year, we are designating one kitchen cabinet to the obvious things like cookies, flour, crackers, bread, etc. We'll talk about why we put them away and read about the story from Exodus. I'm considering keeping out some flour for making homemade Matzah through Passover.

Anyway...just wanted to let you know someone saw but had little to contribute. ;)

[Lulav]

Thanks Kristi, I thought this may help those like you who are feeling overwhelmed. :)

[Torah613]

What is nutritional yeast?

and I threw mine out years ago! So now I can keep my GF gravy mix. :)
nutritional yeast is disgusting.

Yochanan

[Lulav]

:confused:

[jgonz]

I know what I've been doing isn't very popular, but in our house the last couple of years we've just gotten rid of anything with yeast as an ingredient. Flat breads (like tortillas) are still eaten, as is matzoh. We have taught the kids that the point is that the Israelites ate Flat Bread because it didn't have Time to rise.... which meant it Did have some sort of yeast or leavening in it, it just didn't have time to rise yet. As the article said, we can't get rid of All yeast/leavening agents in our houses, but we Can teach the children the Point that was being made.

Just eating matzoh & flat breads for a week is a Huge big deal in our house. It's Definately different than the norm! ;)

[visionary]

Nutritional yeast is a source of Vit B for vegans. It also puts zing on the popcorn.

[Kris10leigh]

I know what I've been doing isn't very popular, but in our house the last couple of years we've just gotten rid of anything with yeast as an ingredient. Flat breads (like tortillas) are still eaten, as is matzoh. We have taught the kids that the point is that the Israelites ate Flat Bread because it didn't have Time to rise.... which meant it Did have some sort of yeast or leavening in it, it just didn't have time to rise yet. As the article said, we can't get rid of All yeast/leavening agents in our houses, but we Can teach the children the Point that was being made.

Just eating matzoh & flat breads for a week is a Huge big deal in our house. It's Definately different than the norm! ;)
I'm glad to know someone else does this. I am trying to take it a little less to heart and remember the reason for doing it in the first place.

[Kris10leigh]

I just read through the article. I hadn't really before, but merely skimmed it. :blush: What is it saying we ARE supposed to eat? :confused: It seemed like it is saying we aren't supposed to eat sourdough bread. Or does it mean no bread that has risen?

[SoldierOfTheKing]

This should be helpful:

Is It Leavening?

Leavening agents

Leaven: Any agent that produces fermentation and causes dough to rise, by causing the formation of carbon dioxide to bubble into and spread throughout the dough. This is accomplished either chemically (as with baking soda) or biologically (as with yeast).

Baking Soda: a crystalline alkaline salt that gives off gas when acid is added. The following are different types of baking soda:

Sodium bicarbonate, also known as "Saleratus."

Potassium bicarbonate, or potash.

Ammonium carbonate, or "baker's ammonia."

Ammonium bicarbonate, also known as "hartshorn."

Baking Powder (baking soda + acid forming ingredients + starch filler).

Sourdough starter (a wild yeast colony that is maintained with flower and moisture).

Yeast (a single-celled fungi, used to leaven)

Not leavening


Autolyzed yeast: A yeast that has 'self-destructed' and is sterile - incapable of leavening.

Brewers yeast: A dead form of yeast that cannot leaven bread; a 'nutritional" yeast.

Torula yeast: A dead yeast that cannot leaven bread, considered a nutritional yeast.

Cream of Tartar: Tartaric acid - potassium bitartrate or potassium hydrogen tartrate. This is an acid used to combine with baking soda. By istelf, this is not leavening.

Tartrate powder: Phosphate powder or sulfate powder - usually added with cream of tartar. By itself this is not leavening.

Alum: A metallic double salt, usually added with cream of tartar. Most common is sodium aluminum sulfate (SAS or sulfate powder), and potassium aluminum sulfate (or potash alum). By itself this is not leavening.

Sorbitan monosterate: A flavor and texture enhancer. Not leaven of itself.

Polysorbate 60: A preservative; not a leaven.

Egg whites: Not a leavening agent. While beaten egg white can be stirred into dough, it does not spread through as leavening does and is not leavening.

Steam or air (such as in popovers or angel food cake). The same principle as egg whites (above) applies; there is no leavening agent mixed through the dough.


So, the only thing left I have to say is check those labels!

[Lulav]

This should be helpful:

Is It Leavening?

Leavening agents

Leaven: Any agent that produces fermentation and causes dough to rise, by causing the formation of carbon dioxide to bubble into and spread throughout the dough. This is accomplished either chemically (as with baking soda) or biologically (as with yeast).

Baking Soda: a crystalline alkaline salt that gives off gas when acid is added. The following are different types of baking soda:

Sodium bicarbonate, also known as "Saleratus."

Potassium bicarbonate, or potash.

Ammonium carbonate, or "baker's ammonia."

Ammonium bicarbonate, also known as "hartshorn."

Baking Powder (baking soda + acid forming ingredients + starch filler).

Sourdough starter (a wild yeast colony that is maintained with flower and moisture).

Yeast (a single-celled fungi, used to leaven)

Not leavening


Autolyzed yeast: A yeast that has 'self-destructed' and is sterile - incapable of leavening.

Brewers yeast: A dead form of yeast that cannot leaven bread; a 'nutritional" yeast.

Torula yeast: A dead yeast that cannot leaven bread, considered a nutritional yeast.

Cream of Tartar: Tartaric acid - potassium bitartrate or potassium hydrogen tartrate. This is an acid used to combine with baking soda. By istelf, this is not leavening.

Tartrate powder: Phosphate powder or sulfate powder - usually added with cream of tartar. By itself this is not leavening.

Alum: A metallic double salt, usually added with cream of tartar. Most common is sodium aluminum sulfate (SAS or sulfate powder), and potassium aluminum sulfate (or potash alum). By itself this is not leavening.

Sorbitan monosterate: A flavor and texture enhancer. Not leaven of itself.

Polysorbate 60: A preservative; not a leaven.

Egg whites: Not a leavening agent. While beaten egg white can be stirred into dough, it does not spread through as leavening does and is not leavening.

Steam or air (such as in popovers or angel food cake). The same principle as egg whites (above) applies; there is no leavening agent mixed through the dough.


So, the only thing left I have to say is check those labels! This is not a Jewish understanding of Chametz and se'or, so it is not helpful.

Baking soda operates on a completely different principle from yeast, so it is neither se’or nor chametz. Therefore, baking soda itself need not be removed from the house.

:)

[Torah613]

I just read through the article. I hadn't really before, but merely skimmed it. :blush: What is it saying we ARE supposed to eat? :confused: It seemed like it is saying we aren't supposed to eat sourdough bread. Or does it mean no bread that has risen?
sourdough is made with yeast, its in the starter. I use this time to change out my starter as its best to start with a new one every year. At least I think so.

Yochanan

[Torah613]

Nutritional yeast is a source of Vit B for vegans. It also puts zing on the popcorn.
That is true, but in my opinion it tastes like soiled gym socks. There are other sources of vitamin b such as garlic and certain edible forms of algae.

Yochanan

[visionary]

well... stil able to keep the leaven out.. it is only the second day.

[Melchizedek]

From http://jerusalemcouncil.org/pesach-2008-5768.html

Chametz is any product that contains or may contain wheat, barley, oats, spelt, or rye that has or may have fermented. The only way to know is for packaged and processed foods to see that it is certified kosher for Pesach.

[Torah613]

fermentation occurs 18 minutes after connecting with water (lots of yeast in the air). Thus, if you bake your own Matzah, it is important to make sure you time it correctly.

Yochanan

[Kris10leigh]

fermentation occurs 18 minutes after connecting with water (lots of yeast in the air). Thus, if you bake your own Matzah, it is important to make sure you time it correctly.

Yochanan
I do my best. My recipe calls for kneading the dough 10 minutes. I do it for maybe one. ^_^ This helps with the timing of things. I wonder how much difference 10 minutes of kneeding would make. Softer Matzah? Crisper? I'm not sure. It comes out fine with minimal kneeding.

[Torah613]

I do my best. My recipe calls for kneading the dough 10 minutes. I do it for maybe one. ^_^ This helps with the timing of things. I wonder how much difference 10 minutes of kneeding would make. Softer Matzah? Crisper? I'm not sure. It comes out fine with minimal kneeding.
Its a general rule of baking that the longer you knead the tougher the dough as it activates the gluten. Thus it would result in a harder matzah.

For softer matzah, my favorite, I go through minimal kneading.

A good hint though, buy yourself a KitchenAide mixer. its the best purchase I ever made. Using the dough hook you can knead for 1 minute and it counts for 10.

Yochanan

[Kris10leigh]

Its a general rule of baking that the longer you knead the tougher the dough as it activates the gluten. Thus it would result in a harder matzah.

For softer matzah, my favorite, I go through minimal kneading.

A good hint though, buy yourself a KitchenAide mixer. its the best purchase I ever made. Using the dough hook you can knead for 1 minute and it counts for 10.

Yochanan
So that's what that hook's for? ^_^ Seriously, thank you. I always make bread in my bread machine so I don't know how to make it without. I have a kitchen aid and will have to try that.

I also like my softer Matzah. I add 2 Tbls of oil for this reason.

[Torah613]

So that's what that hook's for? ^_^ Seriously, thank you. I always make bread in my bread machine so I don't know how to make it without. I have a kitchen aid and will have to try that.

I also like my softer Matzah. I add 2 Tbls of oil for this reason.
Bread machine?!

[points finger shakely and screams at top of lungs] heretic!

Just kidding.

Yochanan

[Kris10leigh]

Bread machine?!

[points finger shakely and screams at top of lungs] heretic!

Just kidding.

Yochanan
Mmm...I make a mean Challah in my breadmaker. ;)
(Not Matzah though...that would go pretty far over the 18 minute rule that started this conversation. ^_^)

[Torah613]

but how do you get it braided? and where do you throw the challah, if using an electric breadmaker?

I actually have nothing against breadmakers, but prefer the taste of ovenbaked bread. Preferably a gas oven, as electric leaves a funky aftertaste and generally runs too hot. A wood burning stone oven would be ideal.

Yochanan

[Kris10leigh]

but how do you get it braided?
The breadmaker only takes it as far as the process of kneeding and then rising the first time. After that it is braided by hand, glazed by hand and then set to rise again before baking in the oven. (mmm, a wood burning stone oven does sound lovely!)

and where do you throw the challah, if using an electric breadmaker? Throw the challah? :scratch: Is this a tradition I haven't heard of? ^_^

[Lulav]

That is true, but in my opinion it tastes like soiled gym socks. There are other sources of vitamin b such as garlic and certain edible forms of algae.

Yochanan Joe, obvious question, how would you know what soiled gym socks taste like? :confused::sick:



:D

[Lulav]

fermentation occurs 18 minutes after connecting with water (lots of yeast in the air). Thus, if you bake your own Matzah, it is important to make sure you time it correctly.

Yochanan When I made mine, I set my timer at 18 and kept an eye on it as it counted down. Now I am not using wheat so am not trying to develop gluten, so my kneading was only done with the wet hit the dry, so very little.

I do my best. My recipe calls for kneading the dough 10 minutes. I do it for maybe one. ^_^ This helps with the timing of things. I wonder how much difference 10 minutes of kneeding would make. Softer Matzah? Crisper? I'm not sure. It comes out fine with minimal kneeding. you only need to make sure the ingredients are incorporated so me, keep the finished size smaller if you worry about it possibly falling apart.

Bread machine?!

[points finger shakely and screams at top of lungs] heretic!

Just kidding.

Yochanan I had two unused ones since I've been diagnosed, I used to use them for mixing and kneading too. I used to make a fabulous brioche dough, made a wonderful pizza, oh those were the days my friend!

but how do you get it braided? and where do you throw the challah, if using an electric breadmaker?

I actually have nothing against breadmakers, but prefer the taste of ovenbaked bread. Preferably a gas oven, as electric leaves a funky aftertaste and generally runs too hot. A wood burning stone oven would be ideal.

Yochanan I would just use it for mixing and kneading and rising the first time. Then I would take it out and shape it, sometimes braiding a 6 braid if the weather was right. ;) it has a manual setting for this.

The breadmaker only takes it as far as the process of kneeding and then rising the first time. After that it is braided by hand, glazed by hand and then set to rise again before baking in the oven. (mmm, a wood burning stone oven does sound lovely!)

Throw the challah? :scratch: Is this a tradition I haven't heard of? ^_^ Kristi, the word Challah really doesn't mean the braided Shabbat bread itself, although that is what it's become known as. Challah actually means a piece or portion taken out for the priests, when there was a temple. So they would have food to eat. Nowadays because we have no temple a piece of the Shabbat bread ( if over a certain poundage) is broken off and thrown in the back of the oven to burn off, thus reducing our portion.

the blessing of Challah recalls this when it says, 'who has sanctified us in His commandments and commanded us to separate Challah. '

Kristie you need to go to the Matzah thread, I posted a video that shows how they made shmurah matzah from start to finish.