Are AME's Methodist or Episcopal?

[Colabomb]

As I am sure you know, they have a confusing title!

[Plan 9]

Yes, you can't tell the players without a program around here. LOL
The Methodist Episcopal Church split over abolition, and you can just imagine how discouraging this was to many black Methodists, who left to form two denominations: the African Methodist Episcopal Church and the Christian Methodist Episcopal Church.
The main body reunified after the War Between the States, and, in the 60s merged with the Evangelical United Brethren. The two names were also merged, so that my denomination is now called the United Methodist Church, not to be confused with the Free Methodist Church.

How'm I doing, class? ;)

[Colabomb]

Yes, you can't tell the players without a program around here. LOL
The Methodist Episcopal Church split over abolition, and you can just imagine how discouraging this was to many black Methodists, who left to form two denominations: the African Methodist Episcopal Church and the Christian Methodist Episcopal Church.
The main body reunified after the War Between the States, and, in the 60s merged with the Evangelical United Brethren. The two names were also merged, so that my denomination is now called the United Methodist Church, not to be confused with the Free Methodist Church.

How'm I doing, class? ;)
Do they hold to Apostolic Succession?

[Plan 9]

Do they hold to Apostolic Succession?

There's an interesting question...to which I do not have a definitive answer.
I have lurked in Anglican-Catholic discussions on another board, from which I gained the initial impression that some Anglicans do, some don't seem to, and at least one Catholic reckoned as how Anglicans might have good reason to hold to it.
Wesley, who was an ordained priest Anglican priest throughout his lifetime, and had no desire or intent whatsoever to start a new denomination, is supposed to have laid hands on our first ME bishops, and purposely included the term "Episcopal" in the new denom's name. Where do you think that leaves us? Are the MECs and, perhaps some of their offshoots, still technically Anglican, and therefore should being holding to Apostlic Succession?

[Colabomb]

There's an interesting question...to which I do not have a definitive answer.
I have lurked in Anglican-Catholic discussions on another board, from which I gained the initial impression that some Anglicans do, some don't seem to, and at least one Catholic reckoned as how Anglicans might have good reason to hold to it.
Wesley, who was an ordained priest Anglican priest throughout his lifetime, and had no desire or intent whatsoever to start a new denomination, is supposed to have laid hands on our first ME bishops, and purposely included the term "Episcopal" in the new denom's name. Where do you think that leaves us? Are the MECs and, perhaps some of their offshoots, still technically Anglican, and therefore should being holding to Apostlic Succession?
Actually, I don't know.

I am not knowledgable enough on the subject to comment.

[Plan 9]

Actually, I don't know.

I am not knowledgable enough on the subject to comment.

Yeah, me neither. :sigh:

I also "overread" a facinating discussion of whether or not Anglicans, and therefore we, were true Protestants. Here again, I don't know enough to form any opinion, but I would like to learn more about both subjects, which seem to be related? Somehow?

Your forum has a brainiac, or two, and we have ours, WesleyJohn, but he's gone for a week, I think. Perhaps some brainiac I hadn't envisioned will wander through and help us out? :help:

[Colabomb]

Yeah, me neither. :sigh:

I also "overread" a facinating discussion of whether or not Anglicans, and therefore we, were true Protestants. Here again, I don't know enough to form any opinion, but I would like to learn more about both subjects, which seem to be related? Somehow?

Your forum has a brainiac, or two, and we have ours, WesleyJohn, but he's gone for a week, I think. Perhaps some brainiac I hadn't envisioned will wander through and help us out? :help:
Actually, I'm one of those guys that calls Anglicanism Catholic.

lol

But again, I don't know much about methodism.

I do believe that Apostolic Succession is passed through Bishops, but I don't know if you have Bishops or not.

(I don't mean to offend!)

I just thought of something.

I used to go to a Pentecostal Church, now I am an Anglican....

I've been on both sides of Methodism lol!

[Kryzoz]

The African Methodist Episcopal church founded by Richard Allen, was founded because of discrimination in Philadelphia during the American Slavery era. St George's Methodist Church would not allow black parishioners to pray at the altar. Angry and disenfranchised Africans left the church after finishing their prayers and went on to found the AME church some time later.
Why we are Methodists?
We are Methodists because our founder thought we needed a plain gospel, and nothing served better as a format than Methodism. We believe exactly what all Methodists believe. We split with UM because of social reasons, not theological reasons.
Why we are Episcopal
Episcopal speaks to our mode of government. Are highest carnal authority in regards to how business is done in the church is our Bishop who is the head of our district. That Bishop is in turn answerable to the Bishop's council, who is afterward answerable to the General Conference, which includes all types of members. Its likely I'm not explaining this right. Google AME church, and click on structure to get a better understanding of the structure

[GraceSeeker]

Do they hold to Apostolic Succession?


Are you asking this about the AME Church or UMC?


My guess is that the answer for both is going to be the same since they have the same roots in the Methodist Episcopal Church, but I am not AME and therefore probably shouldn't speak for them.

The UMC rarely speaks of apostolic succession, but we feel like we can claim it as much as Anglicans can for the reasons already outlined above. Of course, there are those Catholics who would claim that Anglican's don't have it, and I suppose some Anglicans would likewise say that what Wesley and the Methodists did in ordaining Coke and Asbury wasn't valid either. But I can tell you that I have a record of my ordination through the bishop who laid hands on me back all the way back to the Bishop of Canterburry. I'll leave it for you to decide if that means anything of not.

[Colabomb]

Are you asking this about the AME Church or UMC?


My guess is that the answer for both is going to be the same since they have the same roots in the Methodist Episcopal Church, but I am not AME and therefore probably shouldn't speak for them.

The UMC rarely speaks of apostolic succession, but we feel like we can claim it as much as Anglicans can for the reasons already outlined above. Of course, there are those Catholics who would claim that Anglican's don't have it, and I suppose some Anglicans would likewise say that what Wesley and the Methodists did in ordaining Coke and Asbury wasn't valid either. But I can tell you that I have a record of my ordination through the bishop who laid hands on me back all the way back to the Bishop of Canterburry. I'll leave it for you to decide if that means anything of not.

Brother, I wrote that post a long time ago when iwas very legalistic on several issues such as apostolic succession.

Fortunately, God has opened my eyes to the deeper things of the faith.

[Mick116]

There's an interesting question...to which I do not have a definitive answer.
I have lurked in Anglican-Catholic discussions on another board, from which I gained the initial impression that some Anglicans do, some don't seem to, and at least one Catholic reckoned as how Anglicans might have good reason to hold to it.
Wesley, who was an ordained priest Anglican priest throughout his lifetime, and had no desire or intent whatsoever to start a new denomination, is supposed to have laid hands on our first ME bishops, and purposely included the term "Episcopal" in the new denom's name. Where do you think that leaves us? Are the MECs and, perhaps some of their offshoots, still technically Anglican, and therefore should being holding to Apostlic Succession?
The Catholic theory of Apostolic Succession requires ordination through the laying on of a bishop's hands. Fr Wesley was never a bishop, so could not "validly" ordain anyone.

There are other theories of apostolic succession, and of course "validity" of ordination is a debatable concept in the first place.

I have often considered the various Wesleyan and Methodist churches as part of (or at least directly influenced by) the evangelical stream of "Anglicanism"; certainly they are a part of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.

[GraceSeeker]

I have often considered the various Wesleyan and Methodist churches as part of (or at least directly influenced by) the evangelical stream of "Anglicanism"; certainly they are a part of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.

I would agree. But then you and I are looking at it from our point of view. Have a chat with forum Catholics (and I emphasize forum or internet Catholics, because I never find this in real life) and I find many who would say that we are at best separated brethern not a part of the Church, which they view as being synonymous with the Catholic church.

[Concetta]

Thank you all for the informative posts. I've been wondering about the AME thing myself.

Off topic...
I've also wondered why we humans are so intent on labeling and categorizing ourselves and each other. Although it helps to summarize one's stands and beliefs, the denominations and labels can be a hindrance. We further divide ourselves and continue the 'Tower of Babel' type of separations, and then wonder why we can't/don't get along lol. GBU all.

[GraceSeeker]

Off topic...
I've also wondered why we humans are so intent on labeling and categorizing ourselves and each other. Although it helps to summarize one's stands and beliefs, the denominations and labels can be a hindrance. We further divide ourselves and continue the 'Tower of Babel' type of separations, and then wonder why we can't/don't get along lol. GBU all.

Do you actually want a response to those thoughts, or shall we let it go since it is off topic?