Inquirer with questions.

[Akathist]

I followed a link on a thread here about "Western Rite" and found a church near me that said it was "pan-Orthodox" and that the services were in English. It was on a web site called "Antiochain Orthodox Christian" It goes on to state: "The Antiochian Archdiocese, under the leadership of His Eminence Metropolitan Philip Saliba, sees itself on a mission to bring America to the ancient Orthodox Christian Faith. We join our brothers and sisters in the various other Other Christian jurisdictions affiliated through SCOBA (the Standing Conference of Canonical Orthodox Bishops of the Americas) — Greek, Orthodox Church in America, Romanian, Ukrainian, and more — in this endeavor."
So, here are some questions from this newby:

What does "pan-Orthodox" mean?

What is "cannonized" mean? (this was in the other thread).

What is "Western Rite"?

I am planning to visit an Orthodox church this Sunday, will they be speaking English? (I don't speak any other languages unfortunately.) The church I am visiting is in the "Orthodox Church's of America". Is that "cannical?" (or whatever the word is for whatever this thing is.)

While I am posting, does Eastern Orthodox believe in the Assumption and Crowning of the Virgin Mary. (I never heard of this before examining Catholicism.)

I think I read somewhere that Eastern Orthodox does not say the Rosary. But I thought I would ask directly about this. (sorry if you have answered this question a billion times already.)

I know I have a lot of questions, and really, you all have better things to do than answer them, but I do appreciate your time. God bless you.

[Orthosdoxa]

I followed a link on a thread here about "Western Rite" and found a church near me that said it was "pan-Orthodox" and that the services were in English. It was on a web site called "Antiochain Orthodox Christian" It goes on to state:
So, here are some questions from this newby:

What does "pan-Orthodox" mean?

What is "cannonized" mean? (this was in the other thread).

What is "Western Rite"?

I am planning to visit an Orthodox church this Sunday, will they be speaking English? (I don't speak any other languages unfortunately.) The church I am visiting is in the "Orthodox Church's of America". Is that "cannical?" (or whatever the word is for whatever this thing is.)

While I am posting, does Eastern Orthodox believe in the Assumption and Crowning of the Virgin Mary. (I never heard of this before examining Catholicism.)

I think I read somewhere that Eastern Orthodox does not say the Rosary. But I thought I would ask directly about this. (sorry if you have answered this question a billion times already.)

I know I have a lot of questions, and really, you all have better things to do than answer them, but I do appreciate your time. God bless you.
Howdy there!

Pan-Orthodox= all the Orthodox jurisdictions who are in communion with each other. So, all of us! :)

Canonized - uhh... maybe a definition would be "declared holy"? As in, the Church canonized the books that make up the NT, and declined to canonize others they did not see as worthy. People who live particularly godly lives can be canonized as saints.

Western Rite: Most Orthodox are eastern rite, meaning following a Byzantine style liturgy. However, there are some who follow a more anglican (small a) style liturgy, but they are still fully canonical Orthodox.

As far as English - most do, some still don't. You can always call ahead and ask! :)

The ASsumption is not dogma in the East. And I've never heard of the crowning - maybe someone else can help here?

Please ask as many questions as you like!!! Most of us here are converts and have asked these questions ourselves!

Katherine

[Akathist]

The only number I have for the church I plan to visit is Father Dusan's home number and the phone number to the Choir Director. I guess Father Dusan would not object too much to a quick phone call to ask a couple questions and let him know someone who has no idea what they are doing will be visiting. I can also ask him about typical dress too.

The "Western Rite" church is a 30-40 min. drive from where I live but I think I will visit it the following Sunday just to see the differences. I appears to be a larger church. That usually is more comfortable for me. (Don't know why... I guess I can "disappear" more in the crowd.)

[Akathist]

Oh, btw, what about Rosary's? I know about the "Jesus Prayer" and have said it using the Rosary (because I have it and don't have anything else... but I could easily count out 50 prayers on it.)

[The Prokeimenon!]

"Orthodox Church's of America". Is that "cannical?" (or whatever the word is for whatever this thing is.)


OCA is canonical and is highly recommended.

As for the word "canonical": think of a "canon" as a list of Holy things. To "canonize" something is to add it to that list. If something is "canonical", it's already on the list.

While I am posting, does Eastern Orthodox believe in the Assumption and Crowning of the Virgin Mary. (I never heard of this before examining Catholicism.)


We believe in the Assumption, but in the East we usually call it the Dormition (falling asleep) of the Virgin Mary. It's not dogma, but it is Holy Tradition and we believe it and celebrate it.

I think I read somewhere that Eastern Orthodox does not say the Rosary.

It's not an Orthodox practice. We do have the "Hail Mary" prayer (which differs a little from the Catholic version).

I know I have a lot of questions, and really, you all have better things to do than answer them, but I do appreciate your time. God bless you.


If somebody hadn't taken the time to answer my questions, I wouldn't be here. I think I speak for most when I say "ask as many questions as you can" :)

Moses

[Rilian]

What does "pan-Orthodox" mean?

The parish I've been attending is Antiochian. The Antiochian Jurisdiction in this country was started by Arabic speaking immigrants from the Middle East, but has branched out a great deal since then. Pan-Orthodox for us at the parish level I think means that the parish isn't associated with any one ethnic group and the services are all in English. We are a mix of cradle Orthodox of various nationalities and numerous converts. This mix is about right for me; I love the ethnic heritage and traditions that are found in Orthodoxy, but I wasn't interested in being in a parish that was built primarily around one ethnic identity or that had services in a language other than English.

[katherine2001]

As Moses said, we have the Dormition. We believe that the Theotokos actually died and that she was assumed into heaven after her death.

[Reader Nilus]

The Assumption of the Blessed Theotokos is not Gospel Kerygma, and therefore is not a proclaimed dogma of the Church, in other words to become Orthodox that belief is not forced on you at all. It is a pious belief that has come down to us and we celebrate it, but it is something that grows on you as one becomes Orthodox.
Orthodox glorify saints, which means the Church acknowledges something that already is. Canonization is a Roman practice.
Jeff the Finn

[Eusebios]

[size=3]The Assumption of the Blessed Theotokos is not Gospel Kerygma, and therefore is not a proclaimed dogma of the Church, in other words to become Orthodox that belief is not forced on you at all. It is a pious belief that has come down to us and we celebrate it, but it is something that grows on you as one becomes Orthodox.

This is very well put JTF (as usual:) ) Our parish has a special attachment indeed as we are Holy Assumption This phenomenon which you speak of made my conversion to Orthodoxy so interesting as there were a number of things I was struggling with. My wonderful priest did not beat me over the head about such issues, but calmly assured me that the things with which I struggled would "come to me". And they did. The Blessed Virgin is now so real and so close for me. Not because of who she is, but rather what she did in her obedience to God, her yes making my yes possible.
Thorny grace, I hope you do visit the OCA parish as well as the Western Rite Antiochian one. The OCA should be in english (the possible exception being that it is a parish of the Romanian Episcopate). The WR parish will definetly be in english.
The Orthodox do use something "similar" to the rosary beads, a "prayer rope" or Chotki (Russian, can't remember thr Greek term :doh: ) on which we keep track of the Jesus prayer. We do , as someone else mentioned, have a prayer quite similar to the RC "Hail Mary", it is the last part of my current sig-tag. Welcome to TAW, hope you feel free to ask us any and all questions. We generally don't bite ;),and if we do, we've had our shots! :D
His unworthy servant,
Eusebios.
:wave:

[Oblio]

Komboskini - Gr.
Chotki - Rus.

[Grand_Duchess-Elizaveta]

Thorny, I too am still an inquirer, so you're not alone around here. Allbeit, I consider myself to be sort of an advanced inquirer because I feel that my heart and mind have already converted. My complete soul conversion will be at baptism & chrismation. Nonetheless, I'm known for asking many questions and so far no Orthodox person has ever been rude to me about it. These crazy Orthodox actually seem to enjoy it!;)

Komboskini? Sounds like a pasta dish I made once. It went well with a side of photini. Sorry, couldn't help myself.....^_^

[Oblio]

Thorny, I too am still an inquirer, so you're not alone around here. Allbeit, I consider myself to be sort of an advanced inquirer because I feel that my heart and mind have already converted. My complete soul conversion will be at baptism & chrismation.



IIRC there are 5 inquirers here at TAW, check the first post in the Militant thread for updated headcounts.

If you feel you are on your way, inform your priest that you would like to become a catechumen. There is a small (by Orthodox standards) service with prayers and blessings to help you on your way. As you get closer to coming home, you will find that attacks will increase to attempt to keep you away from Christ and His Church, you will need all the help you can get !

[Grand_Duchess-Elizaveta]

IIRC there are 5 inquirers here at TAW, check the first post in the Militant thread for updated headcounts.

If you feel you are on your way, inform your priest that you would like to become a catechumen. There is a small (by Orthodox standards) service with prayers and blessings to help you on your way. As you get closer to coming home, you will find that attacks will increase to attempt to keep you away from Christ and His Church, you will need all the help you can get !
I've spoken with a priest about this and at this particular parish catechumens are only accepted in the fall, and baptisms/chismations are done on Pascha Eve. The parish I'm at now is OCA. I've had a few people tell me I should try attending an Antiochian parish to see what it's like (I've heard that Byzantian chant is beautiful). Since I have no formal commitment to my present church, if I really, really like the Antiochian parish I may end up there instead (I have a few concerns about the other parish). I'm visiting there this coming Sunday. Pray for me!:prayer:

[Akathist]

The church I thought was "Western Rite" is not. It uses the Eastern Rite but everything is in English. This particular church does not have a building and meets in a chapel in the headquarters of Dominoe's (As in Pizza) I was really surprised to hear that the office building for Dominoes has a chapel. The creator of the pizza chain is an devoted RC. This church has been meeting there for a little while before that they met at a school. Their focus is on offering an Orthodox experience geared toward converts and not toward any one ethnic group. (I had a lovely chat with a woman from their parish who volunteers to take phone calls from people wanting information.)

She answered all my questions: what to wear, what to expect, etc etc.

My plan is to visit both churches. There is also a church in Abion but I think they use Russian in their services. I would really prefer an all english service if possible.

I think I understand why Orthodox doesn't say the Rosary. There may be some doctinal differences in some of the prayer intensions suggested for the different set of 10 prayers, such as the Assumption and the Corination.

I have been using the Rosary the last couple days to say the Jesus Prayer (50 times for the 5 decades of 10).

And I am proud to say, I memorized the Nicean Creed. (I only knew the shorter "Apostles Creed")

My orthodox book is in from the Library: Tim (Kolistos) Ware: "The Orthodox Way". So, I will soon get to learn even more.

[Photini]

Komboskini? Sounds like a pasta dish I made once. It went well with a side of photini. Sorry, couldn't help myself.....^_^
:P ^_^

[Rilian]

The church I thought was "Western Rite" is not. It uses the Eastern Rite but everything is in English. This particular church does not have a building and meets in a chapel in the headquarters of Dominoe's (As in Pizza) .

Our mission meets in the basement of the regional headquarters of the Boy Scouts. Not exactly like a regular church, but it works. I definitely wanted to be in a church that used the Byzantine liturgy, I was ready for the complete change.

Photini, I've had the word komboskini in my head all day. I think you should think about having your name legally changed to Photini Komboskini. It has a ring to it.

[Eusebios]

I have been using the Rosary the last couple days to say the Jesus Prayer (50 times for the 5 decades of 10).

And I am proud to say, I memorized the Nicean Creed. (I only knew the shorter "Apostles Creed")

My orthodox book is in from the Library: Tim (Kolistos) Ware: "The Orthodox Way". So, I will soon get to learn even more.
Sounds like things are progressing nicely for you TG.
I think you will enjoy "The Orthodox Way" Timothy (noe Bishop Kallistos) Ware is an excellent writer who is not affraid to tell it like it is.
Under His Mercy,
Eusebios.
:bow:

[Photini]

Photini, I've had the word komboskini in my head all day. I think you should think about having your name legally changed to Photini Komboskini. It has a ring to it.
:) LoL! It does doesn't it! :D

[Grand_Duchess-Elizaveta]

:) LoL! It does doesn't it! :D
Photini Komboskini: Mafia hit woman.:help: Although, if you throw the word "sausage" in the middle it could still be an Italian main dish, served only on non-fast days, of course: Photini Sausage Komboskini.^_^

[Rick of Wessex]

Hi, Thornygrace. :wave:

I think I understand why Orthodox doesn't say the Rosary. There may be some doctinal differences in some of the prayer intensions suggested for the different set of 10 prayers, such as the Assumption and the Corination.

Not only that, but also because the Rosary dates from the 15th century, well after the Great Schism.

In XC,
Rick

[Rick of Wessex]

LOL! :D

Photini Komboskini: Mafia hit woman.:help:

I laughed so hard after reading this that I almost fell from my chair... ^_^
You gals are unbelievable. ;)

Your brother in XC,
Rick

[Grand_Duchess-Elizaveta]

LOL! :D



I laughed so hard after reading this that I almost fell from my chair... ^_^
You gals are unbelievable. ;)

Your brother in XC,
Rick
Thanks! I try.:cool:

[Akathist]

Thank you all for your greetings. I have completely read Kollistos Ware's "The Orthodox Church' and today I met with Father Joshua of a church not far from me. We talked about an hour or so before "Vespers" and I stayed for Vestpers and for the adult education that follows. Everyone was so very nice to me. I was invited to go to meals with them but I was so tired and I felt so overwelmed. I wanted to just come home and rest. (And here I am! This is not exactly resting as I had planned.) Tomorrow I go to Sunday morning service there. (Then I can't stay after but they are having a meal together at the church... I have a family reunion to attend.)

It is hard to explain my first reaction. On one hand I did get kind of bored. I hardly understood the words they were saying even though it was in English because they spoke so quickly. And The service is so very very different than I have seen before. (Although it kind of reminded me a little bit of a Jewish Service, but that is not a fair comparison.) I don't "get" the icons and the kissing of them or even the kissing of the cross. I was invited to go and do this kissing and decided tht I would not do something that I was uncomfortable with for right now.

If in a few weeks I can't understand enough to do as everyone else does, then I will speak with the Priest and see if I can figure it out.

In the meantime, my back hurts from standing (I have a bad back and standing for even the relatively short Vespers was too hard, I had to sit down briefly several times.) The church was unbearably hot. (I have been spoiled by attending airconditioned churches for years.)

Father Joshua reminded me that the Orthodox path is an Ascetic path. He said "It is not easy being Orthdox". But I think I will continue. My back will eventually get strongernd soon it will be fall (I know, not that soon... the hotest months are still to come!)

[Patristic]

Thank you all for your greetings. I have completely read Kollistos Ware's "The Orthodox Church' and today I met with Father Joshua of a church not far from me. We talked about an hour or so before "Vespers" and I stayed for Vestpers and for the adult education that follows. Everyone was so very nice to me. I was invited to go to meals with them but I was so tired and I felt so overwelmed. I wanted to just come home and rest. (And here I am! This is not exactly resting as I had planned.) Tomorrow I go to Sunday morning service there. (Then I can't stay after but they are having a meal together at the church... I have a family reunion to attend.)

It is hard to explain my first reaction. On one hand I did get kind of bored. I hardly understood the words they were saying even though it was in English because they spoke so quickly. And The service is so very very different than I have seen before. (Although it kind of reminded me a little bit of a Jewish Service, but that is not a fair comparison.) I don't "get" the icons and the kissing of them or even the kissing of the cross. I was invited to go and do this kissing and decided tht I would not do something that I was uncomfortable with for right now.

If in a few weeks I can't understand enough to do as everyone else does, then I will speak with the Priest and see if I can figure it out.

In the meantime, my back hurts from standing (I have a bad back and standing for even the relatively short Vespers was too hard, I had to sit down briefly several times.) The church was unbearably hot. (I have been spoiled by attending airconditioned churches for years.)

Father Joshua reminded me that the Orthodox path is an Ascetic path. He said "It is not easy being Orthdox". But I think I will continue. My back will eventually get strongernd soon it will be fall (I know, not that soon... the hotest months are still to come!)
I think many of the emotions and feelings you have right now are to be expected after your first encounter with an Orthodox service. I felt lost when I attended my first service because I couldn't keep track of everything; Which hymns are they chanting? Where are those hymns found? Are they in the printed handout or in the text of the liturgy? Although I was overwhelmed there was also a peace, beauty, and mystical element to the service that could not be ignored. After about a month of attendance I felt like I had my bearings and understood enough to assume a more active role in the Liturgy. Don't be dismayed just stay the course, keep attending, and address any questions you have to the priest and you will be fine. May God bless you on your journey!

[Akathist]

Thank you. The Priest told me not to try to follow along in the book "for right now", but others there kept giving me the books and telling me where we were. I sang along with one song but then felt guilty that I was not doing as Father Joshua had said and I really want to overcome my tendency to do everything my way. I had decided before hadn taht I would follow what the Priest said to the letter, as though Jesus was telling me directly. So it was a little thing, but I put the book down and did as he said.

Thanks for "normalizing" my experience. (I feel kind of bad about yawning quietly under my hand twice during the service.)

[Patristic]

Thank you. The Priest told me not to try to follow along in the book "for right now", but others there kept giving me the books and telling me where we were. I sang along with one song but then felt guilty that I was not doing as Father Joshua had said and I really want to overcome my tendency to do everything my way. I had decided before hadn taht I would follow what the Priest said to the letter, as though Jesus was telling me directly. So it was a little thing, but I put the book down and did as he said.

Thanks for "normalizing" my experience. (I feel kind of bad about yawning quietly under my hand twice during the service.)
Yeah, I had the Liturgy book pretty much forced down my throat by two little and elderly Greek ladies. :D

[Eusebios]

TG,
I can say too, that I was honestly less tahn impressed with my first several Orthodox services, and my wife even less so (she was really bothered by the incense).At the same time, we were not actively looking for achange, just humoring a friendwho had converted. But, eventually it grew on us, to the point where a vespers, even Saturday's Great Vespers seem like a short service.
Don't feel bad about yawning, I think we've all probably done that.I can tell tou this, if you decide to pursue the Church, you will come to a point where you can't imagine worshipping anywhere else, or in any other way. The Divine services will get under your skin, will get down inside and establish a rythym in your life. Hang in there, I assure you, it will be worth it!
:)
His unworthy servant,
Eusebios.
:bow:

[Grand_Duchess-Elizaveta]

Thorny, I'm tired and a bit brain dead at the moment.....I can't remember what your background is. Were/are you protestant? I'm just asking because my background is evangelical protestant, and over the years I had become so used to being entertained with the services (contemporary services, worship bands, emotional sermons..) that sitting through a very traditional service which focused completely on worship of God, and not man, was VERY different. It will take adjusting to.

Oh, and don't feel bad about needing to sit down. Priests understand that. I have back problems too, so sometimes I have to sit down as well. No one pays any attention to it. And I'm kind of surprised about the Church not having air conditioning. All the churches I've visited had it.

[Akathist]

Well, I need to find one of those churches! This is a very very poor church. There are only 25 families supporting it and I think that count includes the college students who probably don't contribute much. The Priest has to work a full time job outside the church to support his ever growing family of wife and now recently, five children.

I didn't notice an aircondioner at the other church locally that I thought I would visit. (Actually I visited one about 20 min. drive away. There is one in this city but I couldn't get a hold of the Priest or anyone else in the church and wanted to talk to someone first.)

I have been in many denominations. I guess I would say I have been attending more "evangelical" and "contemporary" worship for some time. This style of worship is much much different. But I didn't feel that I was worshiping God at all. I couldn't follow along, didn't understand the words even though they were in English. (They spoke very very fast.)

I really liked the Priest and the people. I told them I would be there tomorrow. But right now I am dreading going. It is going to be so hot tomorrow!

I am not fit to be a "Saint". I am feeling so guilty about my shallowness. God have mercy!

[Matrona]

I am not fit to be a "Saint".
None of us are. :hug:

[Oblio]

I really liked the Priest and the people. I told them I would be there tomorrow. But right now I am dreading going. It is going to be so hot tomorrow!


Perhaps it will be cooler in the morning.