Methodist = liturgical?

[Rhamiel]

hello, would you describe the Methodist church as litugical or evangelical
or both
or neither.
How do you see your denomination?
what do these words mean to you?
please add anything else you could tell me about your church.

[Holyroller125]

hello, would you describe the Methodist church as litugical or evangelical
or both
or neither.
How do you see your denomination?
what do these words mean to you?
please add anything else you could tell me about your church.
If one read the history of the Methodist Church, one will see how the people that were first Methodist was against the liturgical nature in the ecclesiastical system. Wesley, Whitefield, and the Methodist in the 18th century that the liturgical nature was not the best interest of the church. Though, I see nothing wrong with being liturgical in and of itself.

Greg Norton

[Redheadedstepchild]

I think it's both, though perhaps not as liturgical as other "liturgical" churches. Remember Wesley was an Anglican who did not intend to start a new church. Also Methodist churches vary greatly within the denomination. My current church is more evangelical than liturgical, but I've been in UMCs where its the other way around.

[cristianna]

hello, would you describe the Methodist church as litugical or evangelical
or both
or neither.
How do you see your denomination?
what do these words mean to you?
please add anything else you could tell me about your church.

Red is right. UMC churches can greatly vary from one to the next, even if they are next door to each other.

I would say imo the church as a whole is both. Many UMC churches are active locally and globally.

I see the denom as the closest thing to a perfect fit for me. Interestingly enough, many comment in our local area about "Methodists" being "lax Catholics". I'm not quite sure I totally agree, but I can see the parallelness in areas.

Evangelical to me is a mixture of discipleship and sharing the Word. Regarding liturgy, in terms of communion, you'll find UMC has a bit different take on it vs the Catholic denom. It's still considered holy and it's still a closeness and oneness to God. All are welcome to join, including children, with no prerequisites.

I think UMC's current slogan of "Open Hearts, Open Minds, Open Doors" is actually quite representative of the denom. Many UMC's are quite welcoming, hold genuine care and concern for everyone, and willingly accept anyone who walks through the doors.

You can always tour www.umc.org (http://www.umc.org) too.

Thanks for stopping by! And if there's a specific reason your asking, feel free to let us know. We may offer different or better perspective if you're in search of more than general questions.

[Rhamiel]

cool, thank you all for your comments, my mom is a member of the UMC and their church got a new pastor and a lot of stuff is changing, I was just wondering how you saw your church

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

As just a visitor with no awareness of the whole history etc., Moriah's impression bes that overall the UM church bes focused on putting the teaching of Christ to work in everyday reality, and translating it into meaningful interaction with our world on all levels from the personal to the familial to the social to the economic and political, in the local community and the global community. Of course it bes visiting specifically during a time when they bes havesy them series on world religions and focusing on unity and the Acts 17 approach of building bridges between faiths, but the impression it gets bes that they would not be doing this at all if it did not reflect their mentality.

The only parts that really seem "liturgical" bes the liturgy used for communion. It bes very similar to formal liturgy used in Catholic church -- not precisely the same but similar and probably derives from a common earlier source. And apparently they don't do communion every Sunday, maybe only the last Sunday of the month? Not sure... they have only done it 1 time in the 3 times we have visited.

It does not particularly perceive the UM church it has visited as "evangelical". They do engage in some mission projects but they don't seem to be in any drive to make converts or whatever, which Moriah associates with the notion of "evangelical".

Just some impressions from a visitor!

[Speculative]

If one read the history of the Methodist Church, one will see how the people that were first Methodist was against the liturgical nature in the ecclesiastical system. Wesley, Whitefield, and the Methodist in the 18th century that the liturgical nature was not the best interest of the church. Though, I see nothing wrong with being liturgical in and of itself.

Greg NortonI'm not sure I buy that, in the case of John Wesley.

Consider his statement on liturgy:

I believe there is no Liturgy in the World, either in ancient or modern language, which breathes more of a solid, scriptural, rational piety than the Common Prayer of the Church of England.To me, that sounds like a glowing endorsement of a particular liturgical system.

And Wesley's prescribed Sunday service for Methodists in America would be considered litugical in nature, particularly by today's standards.

[cristianna]

cool, thank you all for your comments, my mom is a member of the UMC and their church got a new pastor and a lot of stuff is changing, I was just wondering how you saw your church

Change can be excruitatingly hard. Especially when a new pastor walks through the door. I've seen many members who felt their voices weren't heard bombard the newly appointed pastor thinking they would finally be heard. And in turn I've seen those who were very active, become backed off to give the new pastor a chance to get aquainted.

The best thing you can do right now for your mother, her congregation and the new pastor is pray for them.

As just a visitor with no awareness of the whole history etc., Moriah's impression bes that overall the UM church bes focused on putting the teaching of Christ to work in everyday reality, and translating it into meaningful interaction with our world on all levels from the personal to the familial to the social to the economic and political, in the local community and the global community. Of course it bes visiting specifically during a time when they bes havesy them series on world religions and focusing on unity and the Acts 17 approach of building bridges between faiths, but the impression it gets bes that they would not be doing this at all if it did not reflect their mentality.

The only parts that really seem "liturgical" bes the liturgy used for communion. It bes very similar to formal liturgy used in Catholic church -- not precisely the same but similar and probably derives from a common earlier source. And apparently they don't do communion every Sunday, maybe only the last Sunday of the month? Not sure... they have only done it 1 time in the 3 times we have visited.

It does not particularly perceive the UM church it has visited as "evangelical". They do engage in some mission projects but they don't seem to be in any drive to make converts or whatever, which Moriah associates with the notion of "evangelical".

Just some impressions from a visitor!

We have one church with communion weekly. Drive four minutes away to the other UMC and they do it the first Sunday of the month and holidays. I think, could be wrong, that each church gets to choose how often.

[Redheadedstepchild]

Ours does it the 1st Sunday of the month (and holidays). :)

[sinner/SAVED]

EVERY church is liturgical. If your worship service is planned ahead of time, even if the plan is simply: sing five songs, preach for five minutes, sing another song, pray. That is a liturgy.

If a service is not liturgical then it would likely fall into anarchy. Even the Quakers are liturgical. Their liturgy is: we'll all show up and sit quietly until someone is lead to speak or sing. That is a liturgy.

That being said, I'll also say: EVERY church is evangelical. If their is no outreach then there is no church.

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

And every church has members who think their calling in life bes to wrangle semantics in a ham-handed attempt to make others feel stupid.

Doesn't work on Moriah though. :D

[Redheadedstepchild]

EVERY church is liturgical. If your worship service is planned ahead of time, even if the plan is simply: sing five songs, preach for five minutes, sing another song, pray. That is a liturgy.

If a service is not liturgical then it would likely fall into anarchy. Even the Quakers are liturgical. Their liturgy is: we'll all show up and sit quietly until someone is lead to speak or sing. That is a liturgy.

That being said, I'll also say: EVERY church is evangelical. If their is no outreach then there is no church.

This is a good point. :) We like to think of "contemporary" churches as being less formal & structured, but in fact some of them are just as structured, but in a less formal way.

The IPHC I attended had the same order every week.
1. Praise and worship
2. Alter call (during the Praise and Worship)
4. Prayer (though no Lord's Prayer)
5. Offering
6. Sermon

They even tended to play the same 3 songs for Praise and Worship - Lifesong, Holiness, and the obligatory Chris Tomlin song.

[Speculative]

This is a good point. :) We like to think of "contemporary" churches as being less formal & structured, but in fact some of them are just as structured, but in a less formal way.

The IPHC I attended had the same order every week.
1. Praise and worship
2. Alter call (during the Praise and Worship)
4. Prayer (though no Lord's Prayer)
5. Offering
6. Sermon

They even tended to play the same 3 songs for Praise and Worship - Lifesong, Holiness, and the obligatory Chris Tomlin song.Ugh. That's brutal. There's nothing I hate more than these contemporary "worship" services where they sing the same songs over and over and over and over and over and over and over and you get the idea.

[GraceSeeker]

EVERY church is liturgical. If your worship service is planned ahead of time, even if the plan is simply: sing five songs, preach for five minutes, sing another song, pray. That is a liturgy.

If a service is not liturgical then it would likely fall into anarchy. Even the Quakers are liturgical. Their liturgy is: we'll all show up and sit quietly until someone is lead to speak or sing. That is a liturgy.

That being said, I'll also say: EVERY church is evangelical. If their is no outreach then there is no church.


This is exactly right. I just got back from a week attending a conference on the emerging church. I decided to visit a few "emerging" churches while I was at it and made it to three different ones enroute. Funny thing, they all had exactly the same liturgy of the loose-goosey low-church, fire and brimstone, traditional holiness churches in my neck of the woods: 2 songs, prayer, preaching and a closing song. The only difference is they did have communion between the preaching and closing song. I consider the types of songs that they selected from just a question of musicial prefernce having nothing to do with the liturgical form of the service.

As to whether the UMC utilizes a high-church or low-church form of liturgy, that is going to very from congregation to congregation. Many larger congregations in cities are very formal and high-church. Many small country churches are very low-church. One's such as mine have several services, each with their own style. Trying to guess what style of service your local UM Church is going to practice is like trying to guess how someone likes their eggs before talking to them. You'll be right some of the time, but if you are it's just coincidence.

Now, that's just talking about liturgy. Start talking about whether the UMC is evangelical or not, and the problem gets even bigger, because just like with liturgy different church are in different places. But on top of that, we have to ask you to define what you mean by evangelical. Surely there are some church that would both practice a high-church liturgy and be very evangelical besides. And some low-church liturgical churches that wouldn't be any more evangelical than the local country club. So, I don't think you can place them at opposite ends of some spectrum and try to place churches some where on a scale between those ends. That way of thinking just doesn't work when applied to the United Methodist Church, for we are all over the place on both of those subjects.

[Redheadedstepchild]

Ugh. That's brutal. There's nothing I hate more than these contemporary "worship" services where they sing the same songs over and over and over and over and over and over and over and you get the idea.

*nods* It was ok at first because at the time I was not really listening to that type of music - so it was all new to me. I found it funny that the P & W was so predictable once I caught on to the routine - I never expected that out of a Pentecostal church. Fortunately I wasn't there long enough for it to get annoying.

Wonderful church aside from that though.

[Speculative]

*nods* It was ok at first because at the time I was not really listening to that type of music - so it was all new to me. I found it funny that the P & W was so predictable once I caught on to the routine - I never expected that out of a Pentecostal church. Fortunately I wasn't there long enough for it to get annoying.

Wonderful church aside from that though.Now, I'm not against the contemporary liturgy per se. It's just that I, too, have noticed an overabundance of repetitiveness amongst some of the contemporary music ministers out there. Also, some of the contemporary music is not for corporate worship, and has difficult rhythms that a lot of congregants are unabe to follow--which definitely detracts from the worship experience, IMO. I went to a conservative Baptist church for awhile that had both of these problems, and it drove me up the wall (as well as a lot of other people).

I did go to an AoG church for awhile. Their liturgy was definitely contemporary, but they had a good mixture of music, and cycled in some of the good 'ol time hymns. And our church is traditional, but we mix in some of the contemporary music from time to time as well. This is the way I like to see it done :)

[Jadis40]

Hrm, not sure you'd necessarily call the UMC purely liturgical, in the same way that the Catholics and Orthodox, even some Anglican, especially those of the "High Church" persuasion and some Lutherans are. When I think of liturgy, I think more in terms of the things that are said, on a weekly basis, such as during Communion.

I happen to have a bulletin here from a service a while ago, and I think it may be order of worship you're asking about? If so, then yes, at the church I attend it's more or less the same every week.