i am not a bad person...

[HiTsUjI]

i have been reading posts for a while here and have seen some pretty nasty 'discussions' between christians. i have friends who are really good people but not christians. from the way I see it, i live a better life than some christians I know. so what's the deal?

[LouisBooth]

we're human :)

[amie]

yes, i agree with Louis...and some are just more passionate about their views than others. It's the beauty that makes the world interesting...the fact that we're all unique with our own beliefs and the contentedness to be able to share that with one another...
Amie

[StogusMaximus]

What is your question?

Is it..."Why do Christians fight?"

Or is it..."Are people that are good but not Christians saved?"

Or is it..."What is the point in being a Christian since my life is good?"

[edjones]

Originally posted by Newbie
i have been reading posts for a while here and have seen some pretty nasty 'discussions' between christians. i have friends who are really good people but not christians. from the way I see it, i live a better life than some christians I know. so what's the deal?

Yes I'm sure you do.
But its not what men think, its what God knows that counts.
And God knows our hearts.
The deal is without Jesus Christ we're 'sunk'.
ed

[mammasan777]

Newbie, some of the discussions are between Christians and Non-christians, too. I do understand that there is some pretty strong feelings between Christians as well. I agree, we are human, therefore, not perfect. Also, we all come to Christ in different conditions, with different personalities, different ways of expressing our selves. God takes us where we are and, if we allow Him, He will start perfecting us. We are all at different places of growth. When I was first saved, I was almost 'militant' about my faith. I was so judgemental, if you didn't worship like I did, I thought you were lost. I thank God that He is never finished with me, because I have grown so much, and it started when I asked Him to let me see His children through His eyes. I am much better now, but, I have alot of growing yet to do. When you see those kinds of things going on, ask God to touch them, to help you remember that we are not perfect. Bless you.

[Hishandmaiden]

Yes, we are human, we can argue. But some of the discussions are between non-christians and christians.

[2002 Christian]

Some excuse themselves by saying of professed Christians, "I am as good as they are. They are no more self-denying, sober, or circumspect in their conduct than I am. They love pleasure and self-indulgence as well as I do." Thus they make the faults of others an excuse for their own neglect of duty. But the sins and defects of others do not excuse anyone, for the Lord has not given us an erring human pattern. The spotless Son of God has been given as our example, and those who complain of the wrong course of professed Christians are the ones who should show better lives and nobler examples. If they have so high a conception of what a Christian should be, is not their own sin so much the greater? They know what is right, and yet refuse to do it.

Beware of procrastination. Do not put off the work of forsaking your sins and seeking purity of heart through Jesus. Here is where thousands upon thousands have erred to their eternal loss. Sin, however small it may be esteemed, can be indulged in only at the peril of infinite loss. What we do not overcome, will overcome us and work out our destruction.

[HiTsUjI]

i'm asking if you live a good life then what's the deal? i have been told that people like gandi and the dali lama though they may be good people will go to hell, and yet i hear in the news of a lot of people who are christians get caught with adultery or all sorts of stuff.

[Blackwing]

I believe that being just good can't earn you the right to be a child of God for it said in the Bible no one is good in the eyes of God and everything falls short.

[Dave Ulchers]

Originally posted by Newbie
i'm asking if you live a good life then what's the deal?

You should look at Romans chapter 2 (http://www.nccbuscc.org/nab/bible/romans/romans2.htm):
"[God] will repay everyone according to his works: eternal life to those who seek glory, honor, and immortality through perseverance in good works, but wrath and fury to those who selfishly disobey the truth and obey wickedness.

Yes, affliction and distress will come upon every human being who does evil.... But there will be glory, honor, and peace for everyone who does good.... 4There is no partiality with God.

All who sin outside the law will also perish without reference to it, and all who sin under the law will be judged in accordance with it. For it is not those who hear the law who are just in the sight of God; rather, those who observe the law will be justified.

For when the [Pagans] who do not have the law by nature observe the prescriptions of the law, they are a law for themselves even though they do not have the law. They show that the demands of the law are written in their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even defend them on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge people's hidden works through Christ Jesus."

That's St. Paul's gospel, and as such is probably true. At least that is the Catholic teaching anyway....

[mammasan777]

Newbie, I found this in my reading this morning, and thought of you. This is not all on the subject, but important. Titus 3:5, NIV; "he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us throught the washing of rebirth, and renewal by the Holy Spirit."

Leading a good life, but not acknowledging God, is not enough. He knows we are all human, and make mistakes, but He will forgive when we ask for forgivness AND REPENT. Repentance means to turn away from the sin and go in the opposite direction.

[JohnR7]

>>i'm asking if you live a good life then what's the deal?

This is based on the word "IF". There are only two types of people in this world. The children of God and the children of the devil. The children of God walk in truth and love and in the grace of God. The children of the devil do not, although the devil does have his counterfits.

To be more exact, we are just not able to live a good life without the grace of God. We are not here to convert you to some dead church or a dead doctorine somewhere. We are here to show you how to find your way back to the God who created you so you can have a Father daughter relationship with Him. I hope your natural father was not mean to you, because our Heavenly Father is loving and kind and gentle.

I know your young, I know it takes time to figure all of this out. The Holy Spirit of God helps us and give us understanding. God is patient, not wanting any to perish. As long as you continue to seek after Him and His love. Thanks, JohnR7

Matthew 7:7 "Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.

Hebrews 12:15 looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God;

[StogusMaximus]

A famous bumper sticker really sums up this whole discussion.

"Christians aren't perfect...Just Forgiven"

That is really what it all boils down to. Gandi and the Dali Lama did do great things for a great many people, but they still had sin in their life. Their sin may have been concidered minor to us as compared to someone like Hitler, but they had sin none the less.

God is is a just God, and he requires justice. For every sin, somebody has to be held accountable, somebody has to pay the penalty. Jesus stepped up and took our punishment. Jesus was put to death, instead of us, and His death brought justice for the sins of the world.

The next phase is weither or not we accept the sacrafice that Jesus made for us, or if we chose not to accept Jesus. Gandi did not accept Jesus, so Gandi still has sin to account for. Gandi is still guilty and must stand trial and be punished for his sins.

Now as far as Christians still sinning, lets go back to the bumper sticker. We are not perfect, we have temptations, and struggles that we deal with everyday, but what makes us different from Gandi is Jesus. Through the sacrafice of Jesus, we are forgiven of past, present and future sins.

[Dave Ulchers]

Some Christians aren't perfect, but all are called to become perfect with the help of God's grace. A person accepts Jesus by doing, not by talking or listening. Whoever love him, keeps his teachings, and whoever keeps his teachings loves him. You can't have one without the other, anymore than we can know the eternal fate of any of the departed, no matter how virtuous or wickedly they lived their life.

[Kristen]

posted by louisbooth we're human :)

:)

[Mandy]

Mankind is not inherently good. The Bible says that no one is good and that all of our righteousness is as filthy rags.
In Christ we stand righteous and justified, not by our works or our goodness.
Christians are not sinless, we sin less.

[Dave Ulchers]

Originally posted by Mandy
The Bible says that no one is good....
Are you sure? I seem to recall the Lord saying good trees bear good fruit, and that a bad tree can't bear good fruit, and that any tree which doesn't bear good fruit will be thrown into the fire. How then can it be that there are no good trees?

Or this parable:
Jesus told them another parable: "The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.
"The owner's servants came to him and said, 'Sir, didn't you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?'
" 'An enemy did this,' he replied.
"The servants asked him, 'Do you want us to go and pull them up?'
" 'No,' he answered, 'because while you are pulling the weeds, you may root up the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.' "
Are you saying there is no wheat?

Or this parable:
2 "The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who gave a marriage feast for his son,and sent his servants to call those who were invited to the marriage feast; but they would not come.

Again he sent other servants, saying, 'Tell those who are invited, Behold, I have made ready my dinner, my oxen and my fat calves are killed, and everything is ready; come to the marriage feast.' But they made light of it and went off, one to his farm, another to his business, while the rest seized his servants, treated them shamefully, and killed them. The king was angry, and he sent his troops and destroyed those murderers and burned their city.

Then he said to his servants, 'The wedding is ready, but those invited were not worthy. Go therefore to the thoroughfares, and invite to the marriage feast as many as you find.' And those servants went out into the streets and gathered all whom they found, both bad and good; so the wedding hall was filled with guests.

"But when the king came in to look at the guests, he saw there a man who had no wedding garment; and he said to him, 'Friend, how did you get in here without a wedding garment?' And he was speechless.

Then the king said to the attendants, 'Bind him hand and foot, and cast him into the outer darkness; there men will weep and gnash their teeth.' For many are called, but few are chosen."
Again, there would seem to be some good people mentioned here. But these are only parables, whose mysteries we shall never understand....

[JohnR7]

>>Some Christians aren't perfect, but all are called to become perfect with the help of God's grace.

Really, as far as I am concerned the bumper sticker that says christians are not perfect, is talking about the dead harlot church, not the true church of God.

[StogusMaximus]

I am not perfect, and I will not be as long as I reside in this body. That doesn't mean I am not compelled by the Holy Spirit to work towards perfection.

Anyways, my point was Christians are not without sin, and sometimes we slip up, however the great thing is we are forgiven of the sins we commited and if we do slip, we will be forgiven for that as well.

[Dave Ulchers]

Originally posted by StogusMaximus
I am not perfect, and I will not be as long as I reside in this body.

Did not the one who made the inside make the outside also? Is it your right hand that causes you to sin? Or one of your eyes perhaps? :scratch:

[StogusMaximus]

"...If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone..." John 8:7

:scratch: I didn't expect that many stones to be coming my way.

[edjones]

John 8:7
So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

Matthew 5:20
For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

1 Timothy 1:15
This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

[Dave Ulchers]

Jesus said, "Be passersby" -- Thomas 42

[StogusMaximus]

Originally posted by Dave Ulchers
Jesus said, "Be passersby" -- Thomas 42

Not in my Bible.

[soulsisterclaire]

Originally posted by StogusMaximus


Not in my Bible.


Nor mine :confused:

[supermagdalena]

David Ulchers:
Answer this, do you sin?

[ThienAn]

Newbie, one question/statement that I can deduct from your post is that if someone has lived their live more perfect than that of some christians, why can't they be saved? And I think someone already answered that question. No one can saved by what they have done. None of us is good enough to be saved by our works. One can only be saved if he/she believes in God.

Simply put, "...whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16

[soulsisterclaire]

Newbie -

Here is more great verses:

Romans 10:

9. "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed." :clap:

[ThienAn]

I just found something:

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith - and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God - not by works, so that no one can boast.

Ephesians 2:8,9

[thor]

I am not a good person I know this by the ten commandments.

I have broken every one of them either. in my thought's words or deeds.

The big deal about knowing we are bad is this.

God knows were bad. The bible says the person that sins shall
die.

we all know the effects of God rightful Judgement because we all some day will die. Every person has broken Gods commandments. either by their thoughts words or action's.

yet God has given us a bigger deal. He set aside his Godly crown and came down to live and die in our sinful stead.

the perfect God who had no sin became sin for us and took the puishment
from his Father that we deserved winning us eternal life in
heaven .

God
came down and lived a perfect life for us he then died on the cross in our sinful place and rose again proving he has the power even over death.And that his promises are always true. and even though we die we will live again in his kingdom for ever . As long as we trust that Jesus did live a perfect Life for us and died in our sinful place.And rose again for our benefit.

public domain
a portion of
Christi blut und gerechitgkelt
Luwig vonzinsendorf 1739
John Wesley 1740

Jesus I beleive were sinners more than sands upon the ocean shore. Though for all a ransome paid for all a full atonement made. When from the dust of death I rise to claim my mansion in the skies. even then this shall be my plea:
Jesus has lived and died for me!

[Mandy]

Amen!! :clap:

[amie]

Amen again! :clap:

Amie :angel:

[supermagdalena]

Amen thrice! :clap: :D

[soulsisterclaire]

Where did Newbie go?

Oh and....

AMEN! :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: