How Cults Deceive

[cavell]

When we use the word "cult" and "cultic teaching" we are making reference to distorted teachings and abusive groups that redefine the Biblical, historical Person of Jesus Christ and the essential doctrines of the orthodox Christian faith . . . . all cults end up attacking the real historical Jesus Christ. They ascribe to Him that which is contrary to His character, His nature and His very own claims. To redefine Jesus Christ, Biblical terminology, and the essential doctrines of the Christian Faith in this way is to produce doublethink perversion. Confusion, delusion and spiritual abuse follow.

Let us never forget the very sobering words of the Apostle Paul, "I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed." (Galatians 1:6-9)

"Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage" (Galatians 5:1).

[Texas Lynn]

How cults differ from the United States Marine Corps:


Margaret Singer, Ph.D. (http://csj.org/infoserv_profile/singer_margaret.htm) and Janja Lalich, M.A. (http://csj.org/infoserv_profile/lalich_janja.htm)


The Marine recruit clearly knows what the organization is that he or she is joining.... There are no secret stages such as people come upon in cults. Cult recruits often attend a cult activity, are lured into "staying for a while," and soon find that they have joined the cult for life, or as one group requires, members sign up for a "billion year contract.... (http://csj.org/infoserv_groups/grp_scientology/grpindex_scientology.htm)"
The Marine recruit retains freedom of religion, politics, friends, family association, selection of spouse, and information access to television, radio, reading material, telephone, and mail.
The Marine serves a term of enlistment and departs freely. The Marine can reenlist if he or she desires but is not forced to remain.
Medical and dental care are available, encouraged, and permitted in the Marines. This is not true in the many cults that discourage and sometimes forbid medical care.
Training and education received in the Marines are usable later in life. Cults (http://csj.org/rg/rgessays/rgessay_cult.htm) do not necessarily train a person in anything that has any value in the greater society.
In the USMC, public records are kept and are available. Cult records, if they exist, are confidential, hidden from members, and not shared.
USMC Inspector General procedures protect each Marine. Nothing protects cult members.
A military legal system is provided within the USMC; a Marine can also utilize off-base legal and law enforcement agencies and other representatives if needed. In cults, there is only the closed, internal system of justice, and no appeal, no recourse to outside support.
Families of military personnel talk and deal directly with schools. Children may attend public or private schools. In cults, children, child rearing, and education are often controlled by the whims and idiosyncracies of the cult leader.
The USMC is not a sovereign entity above the laws of the land. Cults consider themselves above the law, with their own brand of morality and justice, accountable to no one, not even their members.
A Marine gets to keep her or his pay, property owned and acquired, presents from relatives, inheritances, and so on. In many cults, members are expected to turn over to the cult all monies and worldly possessions.
Rational behavior is valued in the USMC. Cults stultify members' critical thinking (http://csj.org/studyindex/criticalthkidx.htm) abilities and capacity for rational, independent thinking; normal thought processes are stifled and broken.
In the USMC, suggestions and criticism can be made to leadership and upper echelons through advocated, proper channels. There are no suggestion boxes in cults. The cult is always right, and the members (and outsiders) are always wrong.
Marines cannot be used for medical and psychological experiments without their informed consent. Cults essentially perform psychological experiments on their members through implementing thought-reform (http://csj.org/infoserv_topics/topics_conversion_thoughtreform.htm) processes without members' knowledge or consent.
Reading, education, and knowledge are encouraged and provided through such agencies as Armed Services Radio and Stars and Stripes, and through books, post libraries, and so on. If cults do any education, it is only in their own teachings. Members come to know less and less about the outside world; contact with or information about life outside the cult is sometimes openly frowned upon, if not forbidden.
In the USMC, physical fitness is encouraged for all. Cults rarely encourage fitness or good health, except perhaps for members who serve as security guards or thugs.
Adequate and properly balanced nourishment is provided and advocated in the USMC. Many cults encourage or require unhealthy and bizarre diets. Typically, because of intense work schedules, lack of funds, and other cult demands, members are not able to maintain healthy eating habits.
Authorized review by outsiders, such as the U.S. Congress, is made of the practices of the USMC. Cults are accountable to no one and are rarely investigated, unless some gross criminal activity arouses the attention of the authorities or the public.
In the USMC, the methods of instruction are military training and education, even indoctrination into the traditions of the USMC, but brainwashing, or thought reform, is not used. Cults influence members by means of a coordinated program of psychological and social influence (http://csj.org/infoserv_topics/topics_socialinfluence.htm) techniques, or brainwashing (http://csj.org/infoserv_topics/topics_conversion_brainwashing.htm).
--adapted from Cults in Our Midst: The Hidden Menace in Our Everyday Lives, (http://csj.org/rg/rg_pubindex.htm#Books#Midst) Margaret Singer and Janja Lalich (http://csj.org/infoserv_email/email_address_L.htm#Lalich), Jossey-Bass, 1995. Reprinted with authors' permission.

Singer and Lalich have given permission for reprint of this summary of the differences.

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

Did We miss something here? Had someone called the Marines a cult??? :scratch:

Funny you should post a list from ICSA -- Moriah just posted the list defining some of the characteristics of cults from this same site in a different thread last night! LOL.

[Texas Lynn]

Did We miss something here? Had someone called the Marines a cult??? :scratch:

Funny you should post a list from ICSA -- Moriah just posted the list defining some of the characteristics of cults from this same site in a different thread last night! LOL.

What is ICSA?

[Holyroller125]

How cults differ from the United States Marine Corps:


Margaret Singer, Ph.D. (http://csj.org/infoserv_profile/singer_margaret.htm) and Janja Lalich, M.A. (http://csj.org/infoserv_profile/lalich_janja.htm)


The Marine recruit clearly knows what the organization is that he or she is joining.... There are no secret stages such as people come upon in cults. Cult recruits often attend a cult activity, are lured into "staying for a while," and soon find that they have joined the cult for life, or as one group requires, members sign up for a "billion year contract.... (http://csj.org/infoserv_groups/grp_scientology/grpindex_scientology.htm)"
The Marine recruit retains freedom of religion, politics, friends, family association, selection of spouse, and information access to television, radio, reading material, telephone, and mail.
The Marine serves a term of enlistment and departs freely. The Marine can reenlist if he or she desires but is not forced to remain.
Medical and dental care are available, encouraged, and permitted in the Marines. This is not true in the many cults that discourage and sometimes forbid medical care.
Training and education received in the Marines are usable later in life. Cults (http://csj.org/rg/rgessays/rgessay_cult.htm) do not necessarily train a person in anything that has any value in the greater society.
In the USMC, public records are kept and are available. Cult records, if they exist, are confidential, hidden from members, and not shared.
USMC Inspector General procedures protect each Marine. Nothing protects cult members.
A military legal system is provided within the USMC; a Marine can also utilize off-base legal and law enforcement agencies and other representatives if needed. In cults, there is only the closed, internal system of justice, and no appeal, no recourse to outside support.
Families of military personnel talk and deal directly with schools. Children may attend public or private schools. In cults, children, child rearing, and education are often controlled by the whims and idiosyncracies of the cult leader.
The USMC is not a sovereign entity above the laws of the land. Cults consider themselves above the law, with their own brand of morality and justice, accountable to no one, not even their members.
A Marine gets to keep her or his pay, property owned and acquired, presents from relatives, inheritances, and so on. In many cults, members are expected to turn over to the cult all monies and worldly possessions.
Rational behavior is valued in the USMC. Cults stultify members' critical thinking (http://csj.org/studyindex/criticalthkidx.htm) abilities and capacity for rational, independent thinking; normal thought processes are stifled and broken.
In the USMC, suggestions and criticism can be made to leadership and upper echelons through advocated, proper channels. There are no suggestion boxes in cults. The cult is always right, and the members (and outsiders) are always wrong.
Marines cannot be used for medical and psychological experiments without their informed consent. Cults essentially perform psychological experiments on their members through implementing thought-reform (http://csj.org/infoserv_topics/topics_conversion_thoughtreform.htm) processes without members' knowledge or consent.
Reading, education, and knowledge are encouraged and provided through such agencies as Armed Services Radio and Stars and Stripes, and through books, post libraries, and so on. If cults do any education, it is only in their own teachings. Members come to know less and less about the outside world; contact with or information about life outside the cult is sometimes openly frowned upon, if not forbidden.
In the USMC, physical fitness is encouraged for all. Cults rarely encourage fitness or good health, except perhaps for members who serve as security guards or thugs.
Adequate and properly balanced nourishment is provided and advocated in the USMC. Many cults encourage or require unhealthy and bizarre diets. Typically, because of intense work schedules, lack of funds, and other cult demands, members are not able to maintain healthy eating habits.
Authorized review by outsiders, such as the U.S. Congress, is made of the practices of the USMC. Cults are accountable to no one and are rarely investigated, unless some gross criminal activity arouses the attention of the authorities or the public.
In the USMC, the methods of instruction are military training and education, even indoctrination into the traditions of the USMC, but brainwashing, or thought reform, is not used. Cults influence members by means of a coordinated program of psychological and social influence (http://csj.org/infoserv_topics/topics_socialinfluence.htm) techniques, or brainwashing (http://csj.org/infoserv_topics/topics_conversion_brainwashing.htm).

--adapted from Cults in Our Midst: The Hidden Menace in Our Everyday Lives, (http://csj.org/rg/rg_pubindex.htm#Books#Midst) Margaret Singer and Janja Lalich (http://csj.org/infoserv_email/email_address_L.htm#Lalich), Jossey-Bass, 1995. Reprinted with authors' permission.


Singer and Lalich have given permission for reprint of this summary of the differences.


You probably said all this to make a point.

For the "historical" Jesus question, which "history" are you reading? Who defines "history"? And, who gets to say that? Only Apostles and Prophets are foundational and have authority to establish doctrine (Eph. 2:20), and not a single apostle or prophet rectified or signed the Nicene Creed or the Apostles Creed. Just because the creed says, Apostles Creed, does not mean an apostle would really ascribe towards it. Therefore, many of these "bishops" were exercising authority of which they really did not have to exercise.

1. History is not always sequential and accurate.

2. One movement, called the Jesus Seminar, only believes in the Historical Jesus but not the Jesus as the Gospel Witness. Therefore, for one to exclaim historical Jesus, one is going against and contradicting their own theological method. Do you believe in the Jesus the Gospel Witness talks about or not?

3. Try not to get into a wrestling match of language scaffolding around the Biblical text or one is doing the same thing they judge the Pharisees of doing. We need to be aware of our own issues before we judge someone else. We are doing the same thing that we judge others (i.e. Pharisees) if we scaffold around the Biblical text. And, when we say not to judge others, are we doing the same thing when we call someone, whom we disagree with, a cult judging that person, denomination, or movement as well? Please, acknowledge the issues within yourselves, your denomination, or movement, and then your words will mean something. Take the mote out of your own eye before you remove the mote in your brother's/sister's eye.

4. How do you define a cult? Are you just reacting to external or internal issues, insecurities, or fears to protect yourselves? Are you defining the term based on your form orthodox?

5. How do you define orthodox? And, which orthodox? Do you mean this orthodox? This orthodox? This orthodox? Or, this ORTHODOX? Your very own made up orthodox?



All The Best,

Gregory Paul Norton

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

What is ICSA?
The website you linked when you posted a link in the book title cited for that list.

[Texas Lynn]

The website you linked when you posted a link in the book title cited for that list.

Ah. International Cultic Studies Association. Thanks.

[Texas Lynn]

You probably said all this to make a point.

For the "historical" Jesus question, which "history" are you reading? Who defines "history"? And, who gets to say that? Only Apostles and Prophets are foundational and have authority to establish doctrine (Eph. 2:20), and not a single apostle or prophet rectified or signed the Nicene Creed or the Apostles Creed. Just because the creed says, Apostles Creed, does not mean an apostle would really ascribe towards it. Therefore, many of these "bishops" were exercising authority of which they really did not have to exercise.

1. History is not always sequential and accurate.

2. One movement, called the Jesus Seminar, only believes in the Historical Jesus but not the Jesus as the Gospel Witness. Therefore, for one to exclaim historical Jesus, one is going against and contradicting their own theological method. Do you believe in the Jesus the Gospel Witness talks about or not?

3. Try not to get into a wrestling match of language scaffolding around the Biblical text or one is doing the same thing they judge the Pharisees of doing. We need to be aware of our own issues before we judge someone else. We are doing the same thing that we judge others (i.e. Pharisees) if we scaffold around the Biblical text. And, when we say not to judge others, are we doing the same thing when we call someone, whom we disagree with, a cult judging that person, denomination, or movement as well? Please, acknowledge the issues within yourselves, your denomination, or movement, and then your words will mean something. Take the mote out of your own eye before you remove the mote in your brother's/sister's eye.

4. How do you define a cult? Are you just reacting to external or internal issues, insecurities, or fears to protect yourselves? Are you defining the term based on your form orthodox?

5. How do you define orthodox? And, which orthodox? Do you mean this orthodox? This orthodox? This orthodox? Or, this ORTHODOX? Your very own made up orthodox?



All The Best,

Gregory Paul Norton

Not really getting your points. This is about cults.

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

Moriah bes findsy them post it references before. It bes posted in the prog/mod/former SDA subforum. Rather than duplicate post it bes linksy here:
http://christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=45937454&postcount=19

[sacerdote]

Did We miss something here? Had someone called the Marines a cult??? :scratch:

Funny you should post a list from ICSA -- Moriah just posted the list defining some of the characteristics of cults from this same site in a different thread last night! LOL.

Yah, I don't see how the USMC got into this. But I would like to hear more about what constitutes cults.

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

*huggles Sacerdote just cuz happy to see him*

[sacerdote]

*huggles Sacerdote just cuz happy to see him*

You too Moriah :groupray:

[cristianna]

Allow me to intrude on this too...

Technically, if you want to get all technical about it, cult isn't a horrible word or noun. Here's what an online dictionary defines it as. Note #6 is the only one to list it as an undesirable and incorrect interpretation of religion.

1.a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to its rites and ceremonies.
2.an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, esp. as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult. 3.the object of such devotion.
4.a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc.
5.Sociology. a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around their sacred symbols.
6.a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader.
7.the members of such a religion or sect.
8.any system for treating human sickness that originated by a person usually claiming to have sole insight into the nature of disease, and that employs methods regarded as unorthodox or unscientific.
–adjective
9.of or pertaining to a cult.
10.of, for, or attracting a small group of devotees: a cult movie.


I'm most curious about what constitutes how the line actually gets crossed when referring to cult as #6- when, where and how.

Obviously anyone can say, if it's not supported by scripture then one better think twice or go research what another is teaching. But I'm always shocked, saddened and horrified at the number of members within cults.

And on top of that, some I think genuinely are not leading/creating with ill intentions. Some I really believe thought they were graced with wisdom and understanding, and even think they are/were 100% right.

There's probably no real answer to how the line becomes crossed. And I imagine the transition from being a believer to creating a misguided cult is so slow progressing, it enables growth.

[Texas Lynn]

Yah, I don't see how the USMC got into this. But I would like to hear more about what constitutes cults.

Are you familiar with comparison? Metaphor?

[Texas Lynn]

6.a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader.

I'm most curious about what constitutes how the line actually gets crossed when referring to cult as #6- when, where and how.

Obviously anyone can say, if it's not supported by scripture then one better think twice or go research what another is teaching. But I'm always shocked, saddened and horrified at the number of members within cults.

And on top of that, some I think genuinely are not leading/creating with ill intentions. Some I really believe thought they were graced with wisdom and understanding, and even think they are/were 100% right.

There's probably no real answer to how the line becomes crossed. And I imagine the transition from being a believer to creating a misguided cult is so slow progressing, it enables growth.

That's the tactic of saying a particular faith or sect is a "cult" because you don't agree with it. It is not a valid definition except as it is misused so much it has become to mean that as some see it.

The fundamentalist writer of Kingdom of the Cults calls Unitarian-Universalism a cult for this reason; it is merely a slur. No one holds a gun to your head to tell you you have to be a UU. With real cults, they very well might.

[cavell]

And thou shalt love the Lord thy God, with all thy might, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind and with all thy strength: this is the first and great commandment. And the second is like, namely this, thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. There is no other commandment greater than these. (Jesus) Mk 12 : 30/31

In Deuteronomy ch 5 : 6 - 21 we read the 10 commandments. Not the 10 suggestions

A cult as I see it are those who prefer their own idea, thought, manifestation. etc.

The bible is clear "Salvation is of the Lord" this is absolute, and not open to debate.

3. Try not to get into a wrestling match of language scaffolding around the Biblical text or one is doing the same thing they judge the Pharisees of doing. We need to be aware of our own issues before we judge someone else. We are doing the same thing that we judge others (i.e. Pharisees) if we scaffold around the Biblical text. And, when we say not to judge others, are we doing the same thing when we call someone, whom we disagree with, a cult judging that person, denomination, or movement as well? Please, acknowledge the issues within yourselves, your denomination, or movement, and then your words will mean something. Take the mote out of your own eye before you remove the mote in your brother's/sister's eye.

The quote here as the great poet said is "Much ado about nothing" Completely awry

It is in Jesus that 'truth' is to be found. Cults are of men and terrestrial....Jesus said "I am the WAY........etc and eternal.

[Holyroller125]

And thou shalt love the Lord thy God, with all thy might, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind and with all thy strength: this is the first and great commandment. And the second is like, namely this, thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. There is no other commandment greater than these. (Jesus) Mk 12 : 30/31

In Deuteronomy ch 5 : 6 - 21 we read the 10 commandments. Not the 10 suggestions

A cult as I see it are those who prefer their own idea, thought, manifestation. etc.

The bible is clear "Salvation is of the Lord" this is absolute, and not open to debate.



The quote here as the great poet said is "Much ado about nothing" Completely awry



It is in Jesus that 'truth' is to be found. Cults are of men and terrestrial....Jesus said "I am the WAY........etc and eternal.

Brother,

I knew that not many will get what I am saying here. Only a few that will process the issues, problems, or have understanding will get what I have said. People can say I am a cult. However, I knew that I lot that I said in this thread will not be popular. I know it is hard to see our own issues. It is easy to make a particular group, denomination, or movement the glorified trashcan in Christianity while neglecting a spiritual renewal in our own lives. Again, I knew that what I had to say not many will really get it because some have not processed. The reason why many do not understand is because they really do not listen in the first place. See, many will heap onto people, will be prejudice, and slander others without really listening to people with compassion. When we do this, : "Holiness of heart and life" will be a reality and more than a slogan for a church.

All The Best,

Gregory Paul Norton

[Holyroller125]

And thou shalt love the Lord thy God, with all thy might, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind and with all thy strength: this is the first and great commandment. And the second is like, namely this, thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. There is no other commandment greater than these. (Jesus) Mk 12 : 30/31

In Deuteronomy ch 5 : 6 - 21 we read the 10 commandments. Not the 10 suggestions



I love this and strongly concur with you. The Word is more than a noun. The 10 commandments are not suggestions, though some try to minimize it down to this. The Bible is more than a noun.

God Bless,

Greg Norton