Is it a sin to smoke marijuana?

[Orthodox Andrew]

I bet it is, but I was just wondering why?

[Michael the Iconographer]

By smoking pot you are disabling yourself from making solid decisions. You are defiling your mind and your body, and this is a disgrace of the temple of God (which your body is). Also, the mind altering effects pot has make one less able to resist the temptation of other sins.

[MariaRegina]

Smoking pot fries your brain, causing a rise in body temperature. It harms the body which is a Temple of the Holy Spirit. Doing anything that harm the body deliberately (except some medical procedures) is a serious sin.

There are more carcinogenic compounds in marijunan than tobacco.

Tobacco smoking is considered a serious sin in the Orthodox Christian Church, because it is considered to be slow suicide, so is smoking marijuana.

[Orthodox Andrew]

My Priest always reeks of cigarette smoke, so I thought smoking was okay. But if it's not, that certainly makes sense.

[MariaRegina]

My Priest always wreaks of cigarette smoke, so I thought smoking was okay. But if it's not, that certainly makes sense.

It's rare for a priest to smoke, but some have a terribly bad habit. I have talked to a lot of priests who say that they struggled during seminary days to give up the habit. They gave it up during Great Lent with a great sacrifice. Ask him if you may pray for him. He may appreciate it because I am sure his brother priests are gently correcting him.

[Eusebios]

I may be about to become extremely unpopular here, but I'm affraid that I just can't buy the cannabis as slow suicide analogy. Fries your brain? Aria, where are you getting your information? The IOM (Institute of Medicine) report, released in 1999 makes no mention of "brain frying" or increased body temperature, I have read it from cover to cover. As far as carcinogens go, anytime one combusts vegetative material,carcinogens are given off. Cannabis doesn't have to be smoked to be efficacious as either an intoxicant or as a medicine.I am currently preparing an hSenior Honors Thesis on US Drug Policy, particularly with respect to cannabis prohibiyion. My research has indicated that the most dangerous potential side effect of cannabis use, is the potential to become a statistic, that is to become one of the nearly 500,00 who are arrested each year for simple cannabis posession. What a horrid waste of law enforcement resources and tax payers money.:sigh:
Michael, while I agree that excess consumption of cannabis can impair judgement and perhaps make one more susceptible to lapses of moral reaoning, I would contend that it is less prone to do so than excess consumption of alcohol. The key is excess.
All that being said, the bottom line is that Cannabis is illegal in most of the US and the great majority of other countries throughout the world.This is what , in my mind, makes it's use both potentionally dangerous, and hence , perhaps, sinful. Many substances we regularly ingest are harmful, and thus can be viewed as detrimental to our bodies as temples of the Holy Spirit.
Go ahead and bring out the flame-throwers, I am expecting them. I remain:
His unworthy servant,
Eusebios.
:bow:

[MariaRegina]

Dear Eusebios,

I guess you like playing devil's advocate!

My information came from the U.S. Government (unless you believe in conspiracy theories and debunk everything that Uncle Sam has to say) and from a college textbook. I took a senior level course at the university that discussed Tobacco, Alcohol and Drugs in detail. One puff of marijuana won't fry your brain, but smoking a whole joint will increase the body temperature to 99-100 degrees Fahrenheit. The study said that daily smoking of marijuana with the increased rise in temperature could fry some neural connections.

Smoking tobacco and marijuana not only harms our body but those around us. Marijuana smoke causes me to have a severe asthma attack. Tobacco smoke could cause me to have a ministroke or aneurysm since I have a hereditary vascular disease. If we hurt our brethren, we miss the mark, and we sin knowingly or unknowingly. So we are accountable to God in the end.

Tobacco and marijuana are expensive, dirty and selfish habits that should be eliminated by the devout Christian in his search for theosis.

Hope this helps.
Elizabeth

[Reader Nilus]

Smoking Cannabis is no worse than drinking a beer or a shot of vodka. Because the government is all a tizzy over cannabis is no reason to think smoking it is a sin. The fact is alcohol causes far more mayhem socially than cannabis ever will, most domestic violence cases have their roots in alcohol, and violence in general.
Jeff the Finn

[NewToLife]

We are supposed to respect the laws of earthly governments so I would say that in the current climate it would indeed be a sin.

That said there is certainly a debate to be had about whether it should remain generally prohibited and if it should ought there to be room for medicinal usage, for instance as pain relief for MS sufferers?

[Matthias]

I don't want to cause an argument, but Elizabeth I read that same stuff...

[Matthias]

Elizabeth, I know of a local Catholic priest who always smells of stale cigarettes and his breath stinks of alcohol. He also curses and swears which is also a bit strange.

[countrymousenc]

Here in the US, marijuana use is illegal, so in most cases I think it is probably sinful. Sometimes it is used medicinally; that is a matter of oikonomia, imo.

The argument that it impairs judgment and affects brain cells would also apply to use of alchoholic beverages. Based on what I've heard and read, in either case if the usage is not excessive, the body repairs itself and there is no permanent harm.

I wouldn't want to see marijuana legalized except for medical use; there's a possibility that it would increase automobile accidents caused by driving while impaired. Not a risk we need to take.

[Reader Nilus]

Here in the US, marijuana use is illegal, so in most cases I think it is probably sinful. Sometimes it is used medicinally; that is a matter of oikonomia, imo.

The argument that it impairs judgment and affects brain cells would also apply to use of alchoholic beverages. Based on what I've heard and read, in either case if the usage is not excessive, the body repairs itself and there is no permanent harm.

I wouldn't want to see marijuana legalized except for medical use; there's a possibility that it would increase automobile accidents caused by driving while impaired. Not a risk we need to take.Marijuana is already being smoked by drivers, most of the people in my age group has smoked it at one time or another. The thing about it being legalized is that it would end the black market and be far easier to control.
Jeff the Finn

[countrymousenc]

Marijuana is already being smoked by drivers, most of the people in my age group has smoked it at one time or another. The thing about it being legalized is that it would end the black market and be far easier to control.
Jeff the Finn

Hi Jeff :)

I have no doubt that it's already being smoked by some drivers. I suspect, though, that if it were legalized it would be smoked by many more drivers who avoid it now only because it's illegal. That's only a guess, of course, unless we have a scientific sampling by survey. Still, I prefer to err on the side of caution.

[Reader Nilus]

Being against the law, has not stopped it usage and those who smoke it or would smoke it already are. Drunk driving is a far worse problem, and DUI's if dealt with harshly by the courts would go along way to stopping it, but right now the courts do not throw people in jail for any length of time for DUI's. When I was in Europe a drunk driving arrest would lead to a year in jail and your license being revoked for good. Even though they drank lots of beer, the did not drink and drive.
Jeff the Finn

[Stone_Lock_Comanche]

I Used to be a pretty heavy herb smoker. I find that once you become intoxicated It opens the door for various temptations, delusions, and seductions. I also have many friends that still smoke ALOT of marijuana, and now know looking from the outside what adverse effects it has on their souls. It is used to fill the agonizing void which thirsts,seeks and cries out for God. Also to make everyday life more interesting. If one is to do some soul searching he will find, if they are honest with themselves for what reasons they smoke herb. The casual and heavy marijuana users tend to close themselves off and live inside of various delusions not ever really knowing who they truly are. The Almighty brought me out of that slimey mire I dont intend to return. No water can cool this fire only the Lord can save us.

[Stone_Lock_Comanche]

Also as Christians we must follow the laws of this world as well as the eternal.
We must only break the laws which go against Christ. And one day we will have to legally make the decision to suffer for Christ or to live in comfort in this temporary world.

[Stone_Lock_Comanche]

Oh yeah And going along with what Jeff said. The Illegal drugs sold by the CIA is a multi billion dollar source of revenue. Albainians have been trading heroin with the US for some time now.

[Grand_Duchess-Elizaveta]

I Used to be a pretty heavy herb smoker. I find that once you become intoxicated It opens the door for various temptations, delusions, and seductions. I also have many friends that still smoke ALOT of marijuana, and now know looking from the outside what adverse effects it has on their souls. It is used to fill the agonizing void which thirsts,seeks and cries out for God. Also to make everyday life more interesting. If one is to do some soul searching he will find, if they are honest with themselves for what reasons they smoke herb. The casual and heavy marijuana users tend to close themselves off and live inside of various delusions not ever really knowing who they truly are. The Almighty brought me out of that slimey mire I dont intend to return. No water can cool this fire only the Lord can save us.
This is quite true, Stone_Lock! Being a former alcohol and drug rehabilitation counselor, I'll take a swing at this question. First off, anyone who says that using marajuana and having an occasional drink is the same is SORELY mistaken! Marajuana falls into the drug class usually referred to as an "all-arounder." What this means is that for some users it will act as a stimulant, for some a depressant, and for MANY as a hallucinogen. There is no way to predict what someone's reaction to pot will be. However, we do know what it does to the body: damaged hypothalmus (part of the brain that controls appetite. This is the cause for the "munchies"), lung damage (1 joint is equivalent to 6 cigarettes), impaired brain chemistry (effects balance of neurotransmitters), mood swings, and paranoia.

Most pot users that I've known, and that I've counseled, do not get very far in life because marajuana is "The Great De-motivator." Users generally don't have a lot of ambition because when they're high they simply don't care about much of anything. At one time researchers thought that marajuana was only addictive on a behavioral level. This has been proven wrong now. Marajuana use can and does cause chemical dependency! I would list the withdraw symptoms but I'd have to dig through a lot of papers to get to the list.

Where alcohol is concerned, yes, it is also a sin to abuse it. However, it is a legal substance and the vast majority of people who occasionally have a drink do not become alcoholics. A glass of wine with dinner or a cold beer on a hot afternoon generally aren't consumed for the purpose of getting drunk, but for the flavor. How many people smoke pot with no desire to get high??? NONE! Is getting high (on drugs or alcohol) appropriate in working out our salvation "with fear and trembling"? Absolutely not! Alcohol only becomes mood altering when drank in excess. Pot become mood altering as soon as you smoke or ingest it. As someone pointed out earlier, this is not conducive to out quest for theosis.

And finally, I want to say this, and perhaps I may get criticism for it. I think we should ask ourselves if the subject of this thread is appropriate for an Orthodox Christian message board. We have Orthodox Christians who are arguing FOR legalized drugs. Now, think of what a newcomer might think if this is his/her first time visiting here. Had this been my first time here, and I saw the support for legalized pot, I probably wouldn't have come back. This is just my opinion, of course.

[Dust and Ashes]

Personally, I can see a lot of benefits from marijuana use and think it should be legalized. Often in the past, my friends and I opted for alcohol (and usually got in some kind of trouble) simply because we couldn't find any weed.

However, I can say that for me it is a sin because I was psychologically addicted to it for 15 years. I was so bad that when I got to the end of a bag, I couldn't enjoy my last joint because Man, this is it. Won't be anymore till I can find some and snake some more money from the bills to buy it. I could go for long periods and not smoke any but wow, did I want some.

I finally begged God for help with it. The next time I got high, I had an anaphalactic reaction and ended up in the ER with an Epinephrine IV and I haven't wanted any since then.

[Stone_Lock_Comanche]

I also agree with the Grand Dutchess. This shouldnt even really be a question in an Orthodox forum. However the case that Marihuanna is so destructive to the body I humbly disagree. I think It is much more distructive for the soul and spirit. Because the User indulges In all sorts of careless passions reaking Havoc on the reasoning,and the will.

[Grand_Duchess-Elizaveta]

I agree, Stone_Lock. While the damage to the body is proven, the damage of the soul is far more destructive. I have 2 brothers addicted to this crud, so I see the spiritual and physical effects of it on a daily basis.:cry:

[Eusebios]

The damage to the body is proven? Are you saying that the proof of combustable vegetative matter as a carcinogen is proven? If you are, I'll agree and re-state my position that cannabis need not be smoked in order to be effacacious.
As to the assertion of raised body temperature, I think theat the text is either outright fabricating the evidence, or those reading it are confusing the effects of cannabis with those of MDMA.
Actually, our brains have receptors specifically designed to receive Delta-9 tetrahydrocanibinol, the active, psychoactive compound contained in cannabis.Neuron-shorting? Sounds like scare tactics to me. The report I noted earlier from the IOM (http://books.nap.edu/html/marimed/) is the most comprehensive ever undertaken by an independent medical body. It was also comissioned by the Federal government. (my error in the initial post on the acronym IAM, I will correct it). This study does NOT mention increased body temperature or neural interruption as negative side effects.
In speaking of side effects, one should really consider the side effects of so many "wonderful" "legal" drugs. The pharmaceutical ads on TV nauseate me. "Take this for your sinuses, and oh yeah, it may cause nose bleeds, diarrhea , nausea and vomiting". Yet somehow, all these, plus alcohol, and our "Christian" drug of choice coffee, or it's active ingredient caffiene are ok?
GDE and SLC, with all due respect to you, it seems to me that the topic is appropriate. There's a young man asking about a topic that is real to him. And frankly one of the things that makes Orthodoxy so attractive to many is that while we are monolithic in faith and practice, there is room for a good deal of difference on issues of policy.Would you rather people became involved in the Church, only to find out later that these differences exist and then apostatize themselves over such things? Not me, I want people coming to the One, Holy caytholic and Apostolic Church with thier eyes wide open.
forgiven, you raise some excellent points. Cannabis can certainly be psychologically addictive. This is one of the best arguments against using it, or any substance for that matter. I too have seen many "chronic" users who act similarly to the description you gave of yourself. These folks are truly locked in a prison of thier own device.(apologies extended here to Don Henley and Glenn Frey ;) ) There is however a line between cannabis use and cannabis abuse.There are those who can use it as resposibly as those who do so with alcohol.I am glad that you were personally able to break through your situation and admire and respect your decision to avoid any future use of cannabis.
I do think that the perpetuation of the "stupid stoner" myth is en tirely unfounded, as is the insinuation that cannabis users are unmotivated. This is the very rationale used by thearly prohibitionists, those that coined the racially charged and totally inappropriate term "marijuana, or marihuana as they preferred to spell it) I know many people who responsibly use cannabis and are not only "motivated' but hold down regular jobs at which they are highly respected and productive.
Lastly, drug abuse, a very real problem, is a medical rather than a legal matter. When those who are under the influence of drugs commit a crime, they should be treated accordingly.If the root of the pproblem is drug abuse, it should be handled by treatment professionals. But drug use does not automatically equal abuse.
I've rambled on far too long on this topic.I apologize in advance if I have offended anyone with my rant, and I sincerely hope it will not effect our relationships with one another.I am oft way TOO opinionated, this particular topic tends to be a "hot button" one for me.
His unworthy servant,
Eusebios.
:bow:

[Grand_Duchess-Elizaveta]

"I am oft way TOO opinionated, this particular topic tends to be a "hot button" one for me.
His unworthy servant,
Eusebios."

This is my point, Eusebios. "Hot button" issues are best left for the debate boards. I could continue this debate by countering some of the points you've made, but I won't. You are already thoroughly convinced you are right, and I'm not the least bit interested in debate.

[Reader Nilus]

The main problem is that the subject has been colored by such classics as Reefer Madness and that one joint you will be a heroin addict for sure mentality. I have known enough smokers of pot to know that neither of that hysteria is true.
Eusebios posted:
Yet somehow, all these, plus alcohol, and our "Christian" drug of choice coffee, or it's active ingredient caffiene are ok?

To me that is the whole point, if coffee which is a psychoactive drug as well as alcohol then marijuana smoking is not much different. I love coffee and drink it with pleasure, I used to drink alcohol when I was younger, but rarely anymore, and once or twice I have smoked a joint and yes inhaled, but I do not like the effects of either alcohol or marijuana on my system, so I do not use them. I will not sit in judgement on those who like to mellow out with a joint, as it is not much different than coffee or a shot of vodka.
Jeff the Finn

[ufonium2]

The main problem is that the subject has been colored by such classics as Reefer Madness and that one joint you will be a heroin addict for sure mentality.
Reefer Madness is the cornerstone of my Awful Movies of the Millenium DVD collection. :D

Personally, I grew up in a lower-class rural area where marijuana use was pretty much a given. I don't like to use the "at least it's not crack" argument, but my hometown was a whole lot better when it was populated by potheads than it is now that everyone is addicted to perscription drugs and crystal meth. Nobody smoked so much pot that their heart stopped, and nobody was robbing their grandmother to support their $200/day pot habit.

I don't smoke pot, but I do make a distinction between marijuana users and drug addicts. The government doesn't, so that's what we have to abide by for now.

I think this is a very good discussion for us to be having. One of the things that lead me to Orthodoxy was the fact that the Church acknowledges that we all live in the real world, and we have to deal with things like this in our everyday lives.

[Stone_Lock_Comanche]

Look now I am speaking about Christians. A man who has choosen to bear his cross and live for Christ should not have to mellow out by taking bong rips in the basement.

[Stone_Lock_Comanche]

We live in a crucial time one which calls for soberness and discernment. Do the holy father not speak about soberness? About purity of mind?

[Reader Nilus]

Look now I am speaking about Christians. A man who has choosen to bear his cross and live for Christ should not have to mellow out by taking bong rips in the basement.Nor should we have to get a buzz off a shot of vodka either.
Jeff the Finn

[OrthodoxTexan]

Perhaps we can look at the decriminalization issue from another perspective.

I believe that it is morally reprehensible to lock away a non-violent marijuana abuser in the same jail cell with a rapist, murderer, child abuser, or another violent offender. Is the right approach to dealing with this issue love, charity and understanding, or is the right approach to simply lock them away in a jail cell where they must fend for themselves among the predators of our society? All the money we waste (yes I said WASTE) on the drug war would be better spent on community based treatment and drug education programs. No doubt that people who smoke MJ over long periods of time become apathatic and amotivational, but you should see what long periods of incarceration can do to the mental health and social functioning of a previously non-violent drug offender. A hundred years from now the way we deal with substance abusers will be looked at with the same regret we now feel about the way we treated people with mental illness in the past.


Just my $0.02.

[The Prokeimenon!]

I'm a recovering alcoholic and a former drug user. For me, smoking marijuana is a sin. Whether or not it's a sin for you or anybody else is none of my business.

Moses

[Orthosdoxa]

This whole thread is bothersome to me. IMNSHO, this forum should be a safe place for inquirers to inquire about Christ's Holy Church, not see people quibbling about such matters as these. I think we all agree that pot is not a good thing, and it certainly is of no benefit to our souls as we are working out our salvation. Matters of legality and comparing its effects to the effects of alcohol are immaterial. We all understand that it is not something that contributes towards theosis, that it is not something the Church endorses.

I am just concerned about lurkers here (because I happen to know there are a couple and who at least a few of them are) might get the idea of, "What?! Their Church teaches that drugs aren't wrong?!?!" - when that's not the case at all, there are simply difference of opinions of policy, etc.

One of the best things to me about TAW is the no-debate policy. This just eeped far in enough in that direction to make me uncomfortable.

I apologize if this steps on anyone toes. This is just how it seems to me.

Forgive me,

Katherine

[Grand_Duchess-Elizaveta]

Perhaps we can look at the decriminalization issue from another perspective.

I believe that it is morally reprehensible to lock away a non-violent marijuana abuser in the same jail cell with a rapist, murderer, child abuser, or another violent offender. Is the right approach to dealing with this issue love, charity and understanding, or is the right approach to simply lock them away in a jail cell where they must fend for themselves among the predators of our society? All the money we waste (yes I said WASTE) on the drug war would be better spent on community based treatment and drug education programs. No doubt that people who smoke MJ over long periods of time become apathatic and amotivational, but you should see what long periods of incarceration can do to the mental health and social functioning of a previously non-violent drug offender. A hundred years from now the way we deal with substance abusers will be looked at with the same regret we now feel about the way we treated people with mental illness in the past.


Just my $0.02.
Hmmm. If marajuana user were locked up with rapists and murderers, I'd be upset too. Fortunately, this does not happen. I have seen many people who have been through the legal system come in for treatment and none of them had been incarerated. Fined, but not jailed. Of course if the person is a multiple ofender, then I suppose they MIGHT get some jail time, but not in a prison where the hard core criminals are kept. Usually the only drug offenders that get serious jail time is those who are trafficing or selling. Even then, a good lawyer can get them out of most of their jail sentence.

As far as treatment in lue of incarceration, most states do this to some degree or another. And guess what? By and large it does NOT work. Again, working in that field means I have first hand experience. No one benefits from being *forced* into treatment. A person has to WANT to get well. Otherwise, they just go through the motions for whatever length of time the courts specify, and then they return to using. It's both sad and frustrating for the counselors involved.

As far as the Disease model of treatment, I'm not totally sold on that. Drug and alcohol addiction is a disease, but no more of a disease than all sin. To imply that a person just can't help themselves removes all personal accountability for their actions. Like all sin, it is a disease of the soul.

By and large, I take the same position as Moses. I know it would be a sin for me to do it. Whether other people do it is between them and God. However, I cannot be totally ambivalent about it because I've seen what it does to people, and especially teenagers. Many teenagers get their pot from their parents! Do you think a kid can sit in school and learn anything while they're high?

[Photini]

This whole thread is bothersome to me. IMNSHO, this forum should be a safe place for inquirers to inquire about Christ's Holy Church, not see people quibbling about such matters as these. I think we all agree that pot is not a good thing, and it certainly is of no benefit to our souls as we are working out our salvation. Matters of legality and comparing its effects to the effects of alcohol are immaterial. We all understand that it is not something that contributes towards theosis, that it is not something the Church endorses.


Katherine...thank you soo much. My thoughts exactly.

[Orthodox Andrew]

Okay, I think I my question has been answered.:)