Vespers

[Peter]

I started to post something completely different than what you are now seeing. What I wrote turned into a prayer request. Let the spirit take us as He may.

Please pray for our tiny parish, as the enemy is trying his best to rip us apart. The issues are many, but they all boil down to immaturity. Ours, like many within the OCA, is a convert church. We must learn to be Orthodox. We are trying to do things by the old system. We haven't learned to "submit to those that have authority over you."

Some haven't learned about the great flexability that exists within the church which does not contradict the rigdity of her doctrine.

Some don't like certain practices because they are "too" Orthodox, and we "don't want to offend any visitors that might come."

Some don't like the Mother Of God displayed so prominently because this is the south, and some people might feel uncomfortable with her.

You get the point. Please pray.

Peace.

Peter

[Messenger]

In my prayer

Love and God bless,
Messenger:)

[Matrona]

Some haven't learned about the great flexability that exists within the church which does not contradict the rigdity of her doctrine.Oh, Peter. :prayer: I hate to say it but in a few ways I know the feeling. What are some of the things they are saying at your church?

Recently my church was discussing ways we might be more welcoming to families with young children, and someone brought up establishing a nursery to take care of the children, like so many protestant churches do. One of the things I loved about Orthodoxy was that every Orthodox Christian, including newly baptized babies, was considered a "full Christian," and therefore allowed to fully participate in the liturgy by taking communion. I don't mind a three year old wandering around my feet if it means he'll feel comfortable staying with us as he grows up. Then again, a cradle Orthodox friend of mine told me that although she was baptized Orthodox as an infant, she didn't take her first communion until she was eight or nine. Is this a common practice now?!


Some don't like certain practices because they are "too" Orthodox, and we "don't want to offend any visitors that might come."

Some don't like the Mother Of God displayed so prominently because this is the south, and some people might feel uncomfortable with her.

That's starting to get disturbing. We are Orthodox, not Orthobaptist or Presbydox! We do things DIFFERENTLY from Protestants and believe different things!

I hate to say it but I fear some converts might not have honestly accepted Orthodoxy on all of its own terms before they were baptized/chrismated. When I was converting, I wanted to make sure I was converting TO Orthodoxy and not simply FROM where I was before. Orthodoxy is not just a conservative version of the Anglican church, and I think there are a lot of people who need to stop pretending it is!

[Peter]

Matrona,

As converts, we all have things we need to work through. Our priest is a very patient man. I know we will make it as a parish. The complainers are few. And we were warned that not all who begin the path will finish (Some seed fell on rocky soil...).

The rigidity issue has to deal with one very enthusiastic convert who has been studying rubrics for services, like vespers, and doesn't feel we are doing it "right". This poor young man has only been Orthodox for less than two years. As for me, I trust my priest and my bishop who gave him to us.

Peace.

Peter

[nicodemus]

Peter,

Sorry to hear about the troubles in your parish. I don't think your problem is particularly a Southern one though. I live in the deep South and our parish has a huge mosaic of the Theotokos on the outside of the church. It sounds like those people are having "Orthodoxy-issues" not Southern issues. Our parish is primarily one of converts too. Like someone else said, it sounds like you might have some folks that are running away from other religions rather than wanting to become "fully Orthodox." While many people do come to Orthodoxy wanting to fully embrace the Truth, there does seem to be a certain group that wants to escape the problems of whatever group they left (Anglicanism, Catholicism, etc.) Like someone else said, they're going to have to come around to fact that Orthodoxy is different from Protestantism and Catholicism. If it weren't, there wouldn't be a need to be seperate! There is nothing about Orthodoxy that isn't compatible with being Southern. My priest (who isn't a Southerner) said if anything, Southerners have a better "natural preparation" for Orthodoxy than any region of the USA. He bases this on the fact that Southerners have traditionally been deeply religious, giving people that understand life isn't always easy and that suffering is a part of life. He even pointed to the lyrics in old-timey bluegrass music as evidence since so much of it deals with hardship, Christian-living, etc.

I know I went way off on a tagent here, but basically don't be discouraged.

I hope your priest is a strong example for your parishioners.

[Orthodox Andrew]

I started to post something completely different than what you are now seeing. What I wrote turned into a prayer request. Let the spirit take us as He may.

Please pray for our tiny parish, as the enemy is trying his best to rip us apart. The issues are many, but they all boil down to immaturity. Ours, like many within the OCA, is a convert church. We must learn to be Orthodox. We are trying to do things by the old system. We haven't learned to "submit to those that have authority over you."

Some haven't learned about the great flexability that exists within the church which does not contradict the rigdity of her doctrine.

Some don't like certain practices because they are "too" Orthodox, and we "don't want to offend any visitors that might come."

Some don't like the Mother Of God displayed so prominently because this is the south, and some people might feel uncomfortable with her.

You get the point. Please pray.

Peace.

Peter


You can count on my prayers, Brother.

[MariaRegina]

Peter,

Sorry to hear about the troubles in your parish. I don't think your problem is particularly a Southern one though. I live in the deep South and our parish has a huge mosaic of the Theotokos on the outside of the church. It sounds like those people are having "Orthodoxy-issues" not Southern issues. Our parish is primarily one of converts too. Like someone else said, it sounds like you might have some folks that are running away from other religions rather than wanting to become "fully Orthodox." While many people do come to Orthodoxy wanting to fully embrace the Truth, there does seem to be a certain group that wants to escape the problems of whatever group they left (Anglicanism, Catholicism, etc.) Like someone else said, they're going to have to come around to fact that Orthodoxy is different from Protestantism and Catholicism. If it weren't, there wouldn't be a need to be seperate! There is nothing about Orthodoxy that isn't compatible with being Southern. My priest (who isn't a Southerner) said if anything, Southerners have a better "natural preparation" for Orthodoxy than any region of the USA. He bases this on the fact that Southerners have traditionally been deeply religious, giving people that understand life isn't always easy and that suffering is a part of life. He even pointed to the lyrics in old-timey bluegrass music as evidence since so much of it deals with hardship, Christian-living, etc.


Dear Nicodemus:

Many of the black slaves were Orthodox Christians. The song Amazing Grace is actually a liturgical song in the Ethiopian Church which was picked up by Newman who put it to western notations with new lyrics. It's not surprising then that the South has a deeper spirituality.

Hope this helps.

[Peter]

Many of the black slaves were Orthodox Christians. The song Amazing Grace is actually a liturgical song in the Ethiopian Church which was picked up by Newman who put it to western notations with new lyrics. It's not surprising then that the South has a deeper spirituality.


I've never heard this before. Where can I find more info?

Peter

[Philip]

I've never heard this before. Where can I find more info?

Peter

Many of the slaves came from Ethiopia.

[Orthodox Andrew]

Dear Nicodemus:

Many of the black slaves were Orthodox Christians. The song Amazing Grace is actually a liturgical song in the Ethiopian Church which was picked up by Newman who put it to western notations with new lyrics. It's not surprising then that the South has a deeper spirituality.

Hope this helps.

I never knew that before.:) Thanks for sharing, Chanter.