church is where 2 or 3 are gathered together isn't it?

[word4thought]

1st of all i want to say hello. This is m 1st time posting in hear and 2nd time in this forum. We are united in Jesus Christ for he is the head of the church. I do not want to come across as one who apposes the church system today but rather who we are as a body together united in Christ jesus. I have not religion i am simply a believer born again ( born from above). I myself am done with institutional religion or Christianity. The organic church is simply that you and me in God ( father, son and Holy Spirit)
Lately God is taking me through the desert because i am being seperated from christian religion and am simply looking for Christ all in all.
If you havn't read The pursuit of God by A W tozer i recommend it.
God is pulling out a people that are in search for him and him alone. There is a change in the air and its not Gas...lol. It's God calling out His people to trust in Him and Him alone. Who will hear His still small voice. The only Problem is if your entangled with yourelf, it will hinder the Holy spirit. God is a jealous
God and you cannot have 2 masters in the same house. God must be in charge which requires total surrender on your part. Gal 2:20. Another brother in Christ Chip Brogden likes to Quote John the Baptist: I must decrease in Christ must increase. I hope to see some positive threads here In Jesus /name...David:idea:

[Johnnz]

Bless you. But God, who exists in a triune community, has designed us for community too. We cannot be for ever independent. That would be a body functioning as one cell.

John
NZ

[yeshuaslavejeff]

let's see, church where 2 or 3 are gathered...
vs
'triune community'
...
hmmmm....
..
ps
The Holy Spirit
Jesus said, “If ye love me, keep my commandments. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.” (John 14:15-17) Jesus said very plainly that He would send another Comforter to comfort His people after His departure.



http://www.smyrna.org/Studies/Holy_Spirit.htm

[jwp]

I too am a very skeptical institutional church person. To me faith is an action that transpires between god and myself. There are many different levels of faith, with the deepest being those actions where we have literally given everything in his name. I seem to find in many organized churches a bunch of heirarchical secretive positions of leadership. Heirarchical because there is usually just one leader and other co-leaders who have established a modus operandi that is suspicious of others intent but lacking in leading by example. Secretive because you can't get in to the inner circle, you're welcomed at the door but how can a person really become a full developing Christian when there is no facility to operate in the secret society? I say this because Jesus example and words were that "he who is the least among you, the same will be great". How many churches do you see an inverted heirarchical structure where the lowly are exalted above the rich? How many bums does your church have? How many sinners are sitting in your pews? How many people have comitted sins worse than you and are worse than you.

You know what? You're the bum, You're the sinner, you're the worst person in that auditorium. Because theologically the Bible sets a standard so high that a murderer is no worse than a liar. To God without Jesus, there's no hope for anyone. The proof of this is that everyone alive today will die (unless raptured) this means that they have sinned and will pay the price. No pastor, no drunkard, no rich man is better than you. You are not better than me. And I am chief sinner of you all...

Show me a chruch that thinks like that..

[Johnnz]

I am a convinced home church enthusiast. But I recognise that God's family is very large and very diverse. Training institutions, missions, bible translators, authors, scholars, gifted musicians and growing 'traditional' churches, all are part of God's people. To focus around the 2or 3 together verse only really misses some very important facts about the people of God ('the church'). I am happy to fellowship with, read about, accept the good teaching, pray with and praise God together with any member of the one family. To do anything else is to fail to discern the Body of Christ.

John
NZ

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Everything man considers 'great'
Yahweh has called '........' (censored).
All of those socalled good things that are usually mentioned
are supposed to be good or lead to obedience to Yahweh and Truth,
but do they
or do they (as many have discovered, even been surprised by)
lead universally AWAY from truth ?
After all is said and done,
Yahshua said the WHOLE WORLD would be / is deceived;
and
the WHOLE WORLD would be following the "other-than" Christ world leader
INcluding
the whole religious world, not just the obvious pagans.

Still, Yahweh does not leave Himself nor any nation or people without a witness -
there is someone in every country safeguarding, keeping and living Yahweh's Way, Plan, Word,
as a Testimony that overcomes
for those who seek the truth and the only one true creator of all living.

Watchman Nee's book "Normal Christian Church Life" (see the reviews for free at amazon - it's astonishing ! )
shows how to have
fellowship with the true believers/followers of Yeshua/martyrs in your town or city

no matter what group they seem to be in.
That is the only book I'm aware of (besides The Scriptures Themselves)
that shows how simple and pure and true and easy it is to have fellowship with
the other members in Yeshua no matter where you/they are.

He and others have also shown that if you trust man, you can't do or live the Gospel,
and if you trust Yahweh you can't NOT do and live the Gospel (What fills your soul and life overflows out, whether good or evil)...

So, where 2 or 3 are gathered is substantiated and confirmed and witnessed as true just as Yahshua stated.
But more than that is not necessary and not necessarily so, usually(most often) just the opposite being evident and provable.

[pastortimothy]

To God without Jesus, there's no hope for anyone. The proof of this is that everyone alive today will die (unless raptured) this means that they have sinned and will pay the price. No pastor, no drunkard, no rich man is better than you. You are not better than me. And I am chief sinner of you all...

Show me a chruch that thinks like that..

Well said.

There exists in the church today, a new elitism that has sprung to the forefront. It proffers the idea that, apart from the congregation, no individual believer can truly accomplish anything of any spiritual import. Along with that, have come some very oppresive authority concepts that have hurt many well-meaning believers.

Yes, generally speaking, if more people are working on the same problem, it is likely, although not guaranteed, that the problem will get solved faster. This is reasonable. However, to establish an entire culture which looks down on any who operate independant of a large church body is unconsionable and, in my opinion, un-Christlike.

True, meeting and congregating are Biblically premised. Fair enough. However, also premised, is the idea that we are all ministers. The size of the congregation isn't anywhere near as crucial as the heart that drives it. There are many examples of God using regular everyday people, without advanced degrees or huge mega congregatrions, to serve on His behalf.

Our job is to simply seek His will, whatever that is, in our lives instead of trying to usurp the will of others to congregate, study and worship the way that we think they ought to.

Remember Archipus? Check it out:


to Archippus our fellow soldier and to the church that meets in your home:
-Phm 1:2

How about what Paul said about him?

Tell Archippus: "See to it that you complete the work you have received in the Lord."
-Col 4:17

Paul didn't say anything like "See to it that you complete the work you have recieved in the way that I tell you to complete it paying very close and urgent attention to little details that I feel are extremely important to God." Nope. Paul lets God be God.

These are the only two times he is mentioned. Likely, he was an ordinary guy who listened to God and started a small gathering.

Your base anointing, authority, ability and desire to minister to others comes from God, not man. True, different groups have rules and such as it relates to their various orginizational by-laws and cultural minutiae. But they don't have any authority to tell you if you can minister or not...not really. That's God's job. Oh, some will say that the Bible establishes successive authority through the laying on of hands. What do you think? Does that apply here?

Look, if you want to congregate and worship God, exhort one another, teach one another, encourage one another, pray for one another, serve the less fortunate, reach out in compassion, bring the light of Christ to the lost, comfort the dying and feed the hungry, then well...that sounds like church to me. Does it matter that it might only be 3 or 4 people?

I wonder if God, in heaven, would say "You know, yeah...I just don't think I'm going to accept your exaltation and shouts of praise today, because there are only 8 of you and, well, none of you has a master's in divinity...sorry. Oh, and you there, yeah...with the mohawk. I'm not feeling that. You gotta go."

[mrghost]

I am Very disappointed with the clicks in the Church,

Church is a hospital for the sinner; not a Hotel for the saint.

Most 99% of the churches are missing the mark and calling of God.
They are only instrested in preaching to the already saved, How annoying, Redundant, Sick Churches, Having the Form ? But no power
Have not found a good one in a long time, How many unsaved Do U think will read this Post. Case Proved.
How many unsaved will attend Church on Sunday. If a earthquake Hita the Benches will be full.
The Church, Did not like Jesus or John the Baptist either. Why?
Why is the church missing the will of God so bad. ?
Just what is it a Church is suppost to do. ? What is the purpose of the Church ?
Just what is a Church anyway.?.......

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7236856

Mrghost...:cool:

[SpiritDriven]

The Christian pharisee.....has replaced the pharisees of old.

It wont matter...Gods will prevails in the end.

Great to see home Churches out there.....just like the Early Church in Pauls day.

They did not need to grow any bigger than home Churches....then or now.

Peace

[hopeinGod]

I am, at present, unattached to any church group, either small or large. Oh, I tried numerous places near my home, but it was simply too difficult to maintain a hold on the same old rehashed sermons, pleas for money, and distinctive clichish boundaries.

For a time, I taught the adult Sunday school class at a nondenominational fellowship that met in an elementary school auditorium. I gave, but I felt my own needs weren't being met; plus, the drive to the school was nearly an hour long. So, I stopped going. That's when I started a serious search for a new church home closer to my house. I had absolutely no luck with it.

I know too well how institutionized churches eventually evolve into the same easy-to-recognize molds, and that keeps me at a distance. So, it's one day at a time for me, taking from and giving to those I meet who love the Lord no matter their affiliation. The organized thing makes me shiver.

Dave

[rob64]

"Where two or three are gathered..."
This is only one of many verses that people take way out of context. It has absolutely zilch to do with where, or how, God will "show up". Most people think this is saying it takes 2 or 3, in order for God to be "in it".
Read the ENTIRE context, or topic, or subject, or however you want to put it. The train of thought is another way to say it, The matter at hand, whats on the plate, is another way.
You cant just pick a verse and make it say what you want it to say.
If you back up, and read the entire thing, you will see that they were discussing discipline in the church. Discipline. Not, how to get God's presence there.
Before Christ, God's presense WAS contained only in a building. In the Holiest of Holies. In the Temple, in Jerusalem, Israel. There was a mammoth veil that kept His presence contained there. Just anyone couldn't go into the Holy of Holies. Only the priest. And, the priest had to do a bunch of ceremonial stuff to cleanse himself. He had to wear bells on his person, and a long rope, because if he went in "unclean", he would die, and they couldnt go in after him, or they would die as well, so if they stopped hearing the jingles of the bells, they would pull him out of there with the rope. When Jesus was crucified, and He said, "It is finished", and it says "The veil in the temple was rent in two, from the top to the bottom". Do you know why that happened? God HIMSELF tore the veil from the top to the bottom. If man had done it, man would have to do it from the bottom to the top. God was saying: Look, my presence is no longer contained in a building made with human hands. He now lives in our TEMPLES through His Spirit, NOT made with human hands. Isnt it an awesome thing? So, it doesn't require even 2 people for God to be there. He's in us. Or, he's in a true Christian, anyway!