Obama: Babies are a "punishment"

[MrJim]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNbaig-D5pk&feature=related

[mont974x4]

lovely aint it?


God have mercy on us

[MrJim]

lovely aint it?


God have mercy on us

If babies are viewed as "punishment" then it makes the abortion easier to accept I guess~Obama said he wouldn't want his daughters punished with a baby if they would become pregnant unexpectly, guess he'd take them to get the baby aborted:help:

[mont974x4]

If babies are viewed as "punishment" then it makes the abortion easier to accept I guess~Obama said he wouldn't want his daughters punished with a baby if they would become pregnant unexpectly, guess he'd take them to get the baby aborted:help:
Yeah, I read about it on Glenn Beck. It's pretty disgusting.

I've been following the obama's for a few weeks now, and knew about his "pastor" since last Summer. If there ever was a threat (in human form) to our nation it's the current dem candidates.




Of course, the agenda is to dehumanize humans. Babies are an easy target that has been attacked for decades. We adults will be next as everything gets nationalized.



Ever notice what happened to the great civilizations of the past when they went extremely liberal in the area of sex and poor treatment of human life (especially the weakest)? Ancient Rome and the Greeks? They didn't last much longer.

[Hentenza]

Yeah, I guess kids are just a punishment so it does make it easier to murder them. What a bunch of baloney. People have to take responsibility for their actions whether they are 14 or 60. It sure is pitiful when a life hangs on a decision based on a purely selfish decision.

I guess you'all can tell that I not voting for Obama.:D:P

[MrJim]

Yeah, I guess kids are just a punishment so it does make it easier to murder them. What a bunch of baloney. People have to take responsibility for their actions whether they are 14 or 60. It sure is pitiful when a life hangs on a decision based on a purely selfish decision.

I guess you'all can tell that I not voting for Obama.:D:P

:wave: Hey Henry,

Yeah, I may just register and vote against this guy if he gets the nomination~haven't cast one since Reagan '84...

[GraceLikeRainFallsDown]

Thanks for posting this clip. I had not seen it.

I "liked" when he said he would teach them "values and morals". Did I miss something? What "values and morals" does he want to teach kids. If you are punished for having sex by getting pregnant you can just kill the baby and pretend it never happened.

Talk about morally bankrupt. He is supposed to be Christian right?? I must have missed something in my Bible. Can someone point me to the verse that says it is OK to kill innocent babies if they are punishment for sex? (Sorry for the sarcasm. This clip put me in a bad mood. :( )

[salida]

Obama calling, Gods gift, a baby a "punishment" its a total abomination! But again the more him and his wife talk the deeper their ditch grows as they are digging their own political grave. Its unbelieveable that this is a candidate to be our president! I would have never dreamed this.

[salida]

Biblical christianity isn't black liberation theology which is a form of (racism) which Obama seems to be associated with.

[salida]

I wonder if he was a punishment of some form to his parents when he was a baby.

[Hentenza]

He is a punishment now.:doh::eek::sick:

[Ishida]

What do you expect when a nice big chunk of the land calls babies "parasites" and a "growth with unique DNA", and "not human since it's not sentient.." What a load of crap. I wonder what a Trying to conceive couple would think of this..

[Simon_Templar]

National Review had a good article that kind of looked at the Messiah status that many of Obama's followers have ascribed to him.

Reading some of the things various well known followers have said about him is eerie

[ladyt28]

Of course, the agenda is to dehumanize humans. Babies are an easy target that has been attacked for decades. We adults will be next as everything gets nationalized.



Ever notice what happened to the great civilizations of the past when they went extremely liberal in the area of sex and poor treatment of human life (especially the weakest)? Ancient Rome and the Greeks? They didn't last much longer.

I work with the elderly and disabled. I have noticed a complete lack of outcry with the increasing incidents of elderly people openly committing suicide (not done to look like an "accidental overdose" or the such). And then there was the glorified response to "Million Dollar Baby" where the main characters death was "so understandable" - wow but that had the community of disabled people up in arms!

[dsrohe]

Seems as if you all are getting overly worked up by his choice of words. I think what he means to convey is if one of his daughters chooses to have sex, he would rather her sin not lead to pregnancy. So a baby is not a "punishment" of a teenager messing around, it is a consequence of her actions that he would rather his daughter not have to experience because of the difficulty and embarrassment caused to the family.

I believe that any of you out there with teenagers would agree that if your teen was to sin by committing an act of fornication, you would rather that their sin not produce a baby as a consequence. The reason why I say that is because in my experience, conservative Christians are the ones that would most freak out if their child was pregnant or impregnated someone else because of the embarrassment that the family would receive in their conservative Christian circles. I come from a conservative family and church and I know my parents would rather us not have sex, but if we did have sex, they would rather us not have a child out of wedlock because it would embarrass them and the church. This same philosophy would be applied to any other conservative Christians that I know. And I have seen a few instances where a friend of mine from a conservative Christian family has gotten pregnant or impregnated someone else, and the reactions of their families were less than Christ-like. One instance almost drove a good friend of mine completely away from the church.

Anyway, people use the wrong words all the time. I'm sure that what he said doesn't mean what you guys are interpreting it to mean. I always like to give the benefit of the doubt to someone unless s/he proves otherwise.

[MrJim]

Seems as if you all are getting overly worked up by his choice of words. I think what he means to convey is if one of his daughters chooses to have sex, he would rather her sin not lead to pregnancy. So a baby is not a "punishment" of a teenager messing around, it is a consequence of her actions that he would rather his daughter not have to experience because of the difficulty and embarrassment caused to the family.

I believe that any of you out there with teenagers would agree that if your teen was to sin by committing an act of fornication, you would rather that their sin not produce a baby as a consequence. The reason why I say that is because in my experience, conservative Christians are the ones that would most freak out if their child was pregnant or impregnated someone else because of the embarrassment that the family would receive in their conservative Christian circles. I come from a conservative family and church and I know my parents would rather us not have sex, but if we did have sex, they would rather us not have a child out of wedlock because it would embarrass them and the church. This same philosophy would be applied to any other conservative Christians that I know. And I have seen a few times instances where a friend of mine from a conservative Christian family has gotten pregnant or impregnated someone else, and the reactions of their families were less than Christ-like. One instance almost drove a good friend of mine completely away from the church.

Anyway, people use the wrong words all the time. I'm sure that what he said doesn't mean what you guys are interpreting it to mean. I always like to give the benefit of the doubt to someone unless s/he proves otherwise.

:doh: He is a pro abortion democrat~we really expect nothing less from one such as him.

[dsrohe]

:doh: He is a pro abortion democrat~we really expect nothing less from one such as him.
I still don't see how that makes it right to misrepresent what he was attempting to convey in that particular instance.

[Simon_Templar]

I still don't see how that makes it right to misrepresent what he was attempting to convey in that particular instance.
the problem is that Barrack, and apparently you, don't see the problem with killing a child in order to avoid the negative consequences of pregnancy, such as embarassment and extra responsabilities.

Wether you call a baby punnishment or "a consequence" the fact that you depict it as merely an undesirable consequence to be disposed of is the point. The words involved are largely unimportant.

In fact, I think he expressed exactly what he meant when he said "punnishment". Further, the sentiment you are expressing, while rather more diplomatically phrased, is essentially the same.

[homeofmew]

Punished wasn't the right word, maybe end up with, or having the consequence of having a baby?

[dsrohe]

the problem is that Barrack, and apparently you, don't see the problem with killing a child in order to avoid the negative consequences of pregnancy, such as embarassment and extra responsabilities.

Wether you call a baby punnishment or "a consequence" the fact that you depict it as merely an undesirable consequence to be disposed of is the point. The words involved are largely unimportant.

In fact, I think he expressed exactly what he meant when he said "punnishment". Further, the sentiment you are expressing, while rather more diplomatically phrased, is essentially the same.

Stop with the ad hominem attacks please. Also, please show me where I ever said that it was right to kill the unborn. I am just as much pro-life as you or anyone else on this board.

The sentiment I'm expressing is that I do not see whatsoever in the speech that was posted where Obama is advocating abortion. So why did someone post it as if he is advocating abortion in his speech, and why did everyone jump on the bandwagon as if he's advocating abortion in his speech?

Here's the logic I presented in my original post, and this is the logic that Obama is trying to present in his speech about sex education in schools (btw, I do agree with his speech about sex education...and yes, I am very much pro-life!): If any Christian I know, including conservative Christians, has a teenage son or daughter, they would want their son or daughter to remain pure and not commit the sin of fornication. If their son or daughter does commit the sin of fornication, they would rather their son or daughter not become pregnant or impregnate anybody else because of the hardships and possible embarrassment involved with pregnancy.

Where do you get from that logic that I am pro-abortion? We haven't even gotten to the pregnancy part yet. Obama never said or implied anything about abortion in that particular speech. He just said he would 1) educate his daughters in ethics and morals hopefully preventing fornication (abstinence only education) and 2) educate them on BC so that if they did decide to fornicate, they would have a greatly reduced chance of becoming pregnant or contracting an STD.

Let me ask you, Simon. If your son or daughter committed the sin of fornication, would you rather a pregnancy was involved or not? Most if not all people would say they would rather not, because most people realize that having a child out of wedlock as a teenager is extremely difficult ESPECIALLY if you're a teenager in a Christian or a conservative Christian environment. So because of that, most people would rather their children use some kind of BC if they do commit the act of fornication (this is what Obama is advocating in the way of sex ed education). Remember, there is no child at this point so abortion is irrelevant. No parents should ever suggest or even think about abortion if their child becomes pregnant or impregnates another, and no teen should ever consider abortion if they become pregnant or impregnate another. Instead, parents should lovingly support their son or daughter (I'm sure the son or daughter knows he or she was wrong to fornicate at this point...), and the son or daughter should step up to the plate for parenthood (or adoption if that's what everyone wants).

Now if anyone has a bone to pick about teaching BC related sex education in schools, then by all means use this clip to say how you dislike the fact that Obama is advocating BC sex education in schools instead of just abstinence only. For example, you could say:
OP
"Wow, look at this clip, instead of Obama just advocating abstinence only education, he's advocating BC education as well!"
P1
"What an outrage! Condoms are wrong! These kids shouldn't be having sex in the first place!"
P2
"I agree, abstinence only is the way to go imo."

See that? A relevant conversation that actually has to do with the original video!

[MrJim]

"...punished with a baby."

You can dance all around it you like~we really expect this sort of thing from a liberal democrat supporting abortion-on-demand.

[Hentenza]

"...punished with a baby."

You can dance all around it you like~we really expect this sort of thing from a liberal democrat supporting abortion-on-demand.

Yep!!!!:wave:

I agree and endorse the above post.;)^_^^_^^_^^_^:P:P

[dsrohe]

"...punished with a baby."

You can dance all around it you like~we really expect this sort of thing from a liberal democrat supporting abortion-on-demand.

Na, I'm not dancing around it. It just doesn't make sense to me that people who claim to be Christians would deliberately misrepresent what another person is trying to say. And it doesn't matter how much you disrespect or disagree with the person because all are still made in the image of God!

Is it really that difficult to get a speech of Obama saying he supports abortion so that you can bash that instead? Or maybe you could find an article about his voting record on abortion? There are many other alternatives that you could take to bash Obama's stance on abortion without resorting to a video clip that has absolutely nothing to do with abortion.

The reason why I post is because as Christians, we're called to a higher standard than the world. And in my opinion, mud-slinging Obama about abortion using a video clip which clearly has nothing to do with abortion is wrong and is definitely not loving your neighbor as yourself (Galations 5:14 The entire law is summed up in a single command: "Love your neighbor as yourself."). When one Christian acts like the world, the world takes notice, and it ultimately hurts the witness of every single Christian, so I believe it is the responsibility of each and every one of us to be as Christlike as possible.

[MrJim]

Na, I'm not dancing around it. It just doesn't make sense to me that people who claim to be Christians would deliberately misrepresent what another person is trying to say. And it doesn't matter how much you disrespect or disagree with the person because all are still made in the image of God!

Is it really that difficult to get a speech of Obama saying he supports abortion so that you can bash that instead? Or maybe you could find an article about his voting record on abortion? There are many other alternatives that you could take to bash Obama's stance on abortion without resorting to a video clip that has absolutely nothing to do with abortion.

The reason why I post is because as Christians, we're called to a higher standard than the world. And in my opinion, mud-slinging Obama about abortion using a video clip which clearly has nothing to do with abortion is wrong and is definitely not loving your neighbor as yourself (Galations 5:14 The entire law is summed up in a single command: "Love your neighbor as yourself."). When one Christian acts like the world, the world takes notice, and it ultimately hurts the witness of every single Christian, so I believe it is the responsibility of each and every one of us to be as Christlike as possible.

Is he your choice?

[dsrohe]

Is he your choice?
No, he's not my choice. I'm actually choosing to not vote this election because I'm not convinced that any candidate that has a chance of winning is worth voting for.

Right now it's looking to be McCain for the republican ticket and Obama or Hilary for the democratic ticket. I don't think there are any good choices out of all of them... A completely different topic, but a democratic political system is messed up when there are only two viable parties with one candidate per party. How is choosing between one of two people considered democratic again? Anyway our political system needs an overhaul.

[MrJim]

No, he's not my choice. I'm actually choosing to not vote this election because I'm not convinced that any candidate that has a chance of winning is worth voting for.

Right now it's looking to be McCain for the republican ticket and Obama or Hilary for the democratic ticket. I don't think there are any good choices out of all of them... A completely different topic, but a democratic political system is messed up when there are only two viable parties with one candidate per party. How is choosing between one of two people considered democratic again? Anyway our political system needs an overhaul.

heh, well we agree on something...though the more Obama talks...

[dsrohe]

heh, well we agree on something...though the more Obama talks...

Haha, I agree with that 100%. He'd do better if he just kept his mouth shut...

[MrJim]

Haha, I agree with that 100%. He'd do better if he just kept his mouth shut...

I guess at some point he had to be more than just a figurehead speaking platitudes...

[Nadiine]

I'm only glad that we're seeing Obama's real problems openly.
Earlier on, people acted as if he walked on water - now, he's making problematic statements on alot of fronts.

[cher1515]

Obama is all talk thats what I think, he isn't realistic.

[Nadiine]

Obama is all talk thats what I think, he isn't realistic.
aren't all politicians? MOst of what they say is trying to get votes... they aren't even themselves if you ask me.

Kissing babies and serving corndogs to the "common folk" is supposed to make us feel like they're IN TOUCH with Americans.
OH PLEASE. Anyone believing that poop is genuine must be deluded.

[cher1515]

Yes your right

[MrJim]

aren't all politicians? MOst of what they say is trying to get votes... they aren't even themselves if you ask me.

Kissing babies and serving corndogs to the "common folk" is supposed to make us feel like they're IN TOUCH with Americans.
OH PLEASE. Anyone believing that poop is genuine must be deluded.

http://bestsmileys.com/freak/3.gif

[Nadiine]

http://bestsmileys.com/freak/3.gif
lol I concur!

I still vote for a lesser of 2 evils (ie. I'm more afraid of getting the even worse one)... but I'm dissillusioned w/ politics altogether anymore.

It's not to say Pres. Bush made me this way either - it wasn't him at all; it's the entire system of it. It's better than anarchy & chaos & could be alot worse - just that it looks more bleak every election.

[MrJim]

lol I concur!

I still vote for a lesser of 2 evils (ie. I'm more afraid of getting the even worse one)... but I'm dissillusioned w/ politics altogether anymore.

It's not to say Pres. Bush made me this way either - it wasn't him at all; it's the entire system of it. It's better than anarchy & chaos & could be alot worse - just that it looks more bleak every election.

Did ya hear McCain bustin' on the North Carolina GOP for their "Extremist Obama" ad? And he goes to New Orleans and slams Bush but gives the LA state dems a free ride, as though the mayor and governor were victims.

McCain freaks me a little...maybe as much as the other two...

[Nadiine]

Did ya hear McCain bustin' on the North Carolina GOP for their "Extremist Obama" ad? And he goes to New Orleans and slams Bush but gives the LA state dems a free ride, as though the mayor and governor were victims.

McCain freaks me a little...maybe as much as the other two...
absolutely. I didn't like him and never have.

He wants both sides to love him & it cant' work. He's also a follower, not a leader.
I never liked him. But he's "better" than the other 2 w/ them wanting to yank troops out of Iraq so quicky which is a recipee for chaos in the region - and they want universal healthcare (at least Hillary does) & that's a proven nitemare of a system.

Not to mention other things like PRO abortion.......
:swoon: :sigh:

[MrJim]

absolutely. I didn't like him and never have.

He wants both sides to love him & it cant' work. He's also a follower, not a leader.
I never liked him. But he's "better" than the other 2 w/ them wanting to yank troops out of Iraq so quicky which is a recipee for chaos in the region - and they want universal healthcare (at least Hillary does) & that's a proven nitemare of a system.

Not to mention other things like PRO abortion.......
:swoon: :sigh:

One line of thinking is that since all three will run the country into the ground might as well get it over with quick~I guess the prolife stance trumps everything else, still it isn't a favorable future we have here...what sort of vp do you think he'll pick?

[Nadiine]

One line of thinking is that since all three will run the country into the ground might as well get it over with quick~I guess the prolife stance trumps everything else, still it isn't a favorable future we have here...what sort of vp do you think he'll pick?
(my bold)
probly someone else I'd never vote for LOLOL

:sigh: :swoon:

I tend to agree w/ your post. It only goes to show you, all we ultimately have to trust and rely on is our God. He's in control and will work things into His plan & purpose - whatever it may be & wherever it may lead.

This nation might be bad, but still others are more immoral and Godless than ours.

[MrJim]

(my bold)
probly someone else I'd never vote for LOLOL

:sigh: :swoon:

I tend to agree w/ your post. It only goes to show you, all we ultimately have to trust and rely on is our God. He's in control and will work things into His plan & purpose - whatever it may be & wherever it may lead.

This nation might be bad, but still others are more immoral and Godless than ours.

^_^ more immoral, more Godless~at some point it's becomes about the same...

[SwirlingEd]

It just doesn't make sense to me that people who claim to be Christians would deliberately misrepresent what another person is trying to say.


No it doesn't make sense, but it happens all the time. Don't you know that if we Christians don't agree with someone on one point, it means they are a hellbound, horrible, baby-killer-for-fun with absolutely no good qualities.

It's the lack of objectivity that makes everyone hate us. Enjoy.

[Nadiine]

No it doesn't make sense, but it happens all the time. Don't you know that if we Christians don't agree with someone on one point, it means they are a hellbound, horrible, baby-killer-for-fun with absolutely no good qualities.

It's the lack of objectivity that makes everyone hate us. Enjoy.
actually they hated JESUS..... what did HE do wrong?
People like to throw blame on us for all our horrible hypocrisies, lack of love, bigotry and whatever else... and we aren't faultless or perfect, but people hate Christians becuz of the GOD they (we) represent ultimately.

[SwirlingEd]

actually they hated JESUS..... what did HE do wrong?
People like to throw blame on us for all our horrible hypocrisies, lack of love, bigotry and whatever else... and we aren't faultless or perfect, but people hate Christians becuz of the GOD they (we) represent ultimately.


I can appreciate what you are saying to an extent, but I think this is argument is generally a copout. I'm tired of Christians playing victims. The reason we get singled out and "discriminated against" is because we whine incessantly about how mistreated we are. We are quick to claim that we are persecuted. Yet, we have the same rights as every other individual (at least in the U.S) to practice our religion. I worry how we'll react when that day comes when we truly are persecuted. Could it be that we are angry that we can't turn our country into a theocracy? I know we would love it to be like the good old days when we were a "Christian" country. Not gonna happen.

There are hungry people out there, and they are looking for compassion, understanding, and yes, tolerance. The awful word that it is. Look up the definition of tolerance. Notice it does not says "agrees with" or "accepts as truth". It's about acknowledging that someone else has a right to an opinion, and that they should be treated with respect. It is about acknowledging and accepting that we don't have all the answers. We may think we have the "truth", but we don't. We have a version of the truth - the rest is faith. Until we show respect to people, the backlash against Christianity will continue.

And, as I see it, that's our fault.

[MrJim]

I know we would love it to be like the good old days when we were a "Christian" country. Not gonna happen.

I keep asking about those days~was that when slavery was legal or during Jim Crow cause it sure can't be through the 60/s till now...:scratch:

The supposed Christian America time was great if you were a white guy I guess...

[SwirlingEd]

I keep asking about those days~was that when slavery was legal or during Jim Crow cause it sure can't be through the 60/s till now...:scratch:

The supposed Christian America time was great if you were a white guy I guess...

Absolutely. I agree with you 100% that they were not actually "good 'ol days", but they sure were better for white, Christian, middle-class families.

[Nadiine]

I can appreciate what you are saying to an extent, but I think this is argument is generally a copout. I'm tired of Christians playing victims. The reason we get singled out and "discriminated against" is because we whine incessantly about how mistreated we are. We are quick to claim that we are persecuted. Yet, we have the same rights as every other individual (at least in the U.S) to practice our religion. I worry how we'll react when that day comes when we truly are persecuted. Could it be that we are angry that we can't turn our country into a theocracy? I know we would love it to be like the good old days when we were a "Christian" country. Not gonna happen.

There are hungry people out there, and they are looking for compassion, understanding, and yes, tolerance. The awful word that it is. Look up the definition of tolerance. Notice it does not says "agrees with" or "accepts as truth". It's about acknowledging that someone else has a right to an opinion, and that they should be treated with respect. It is about acknowledging and accepting that we don't have all the answers. We may think we have the "truth", but we don't. We have a version of the truth - the rest is faith. Until we show respect to people, the backlash against Christianity will continue.

And, as I see it, that's our fault.
I don't think it's a copout tho - it's true. Why was Jesus hated? The Bible tells us plainly that we'll be hated becuz of Christ.
Other false religions do what we do, why aren't they as hated & attacked and persecuted???

Nobody said we were perfect, I see some SCARY Christian conduct - but then, i don't just buy into the claims people make either.
Jesus said that MANY will say they were His & did things in His name, and He'll tell them to depart, He never knew them.

So we have alot of imposters imho claiming to know God, yet aren't of Him... so I can hardly expect those people who carry His name to ACT like a true Christian.

But hey, the bible is also full of God's people who fell short, did lame things, were hypocrites or did wrongs --
people ultimately reject God becuz they don't want to live by His laws & prefer darkness, the pointing blame at Christians is the real copout as I see it.

But ya, I'd love for this country to be what it used to be but it probly won't ever be again sadly unless something drastic happens to turn us around.

*I do agree w/ your post statements to a large degree - also about toleration. But remember, they aren't asking us to just tolerate, they're forcing us to accept it

[Nadiine]

also, I find that they're highly intolerant of us and our beliefs & God....
they want toleration yet refuse to show it. That is the hypocrisy

[MrJim]

also, I find that they're highly intolerant of us and our beliefs & God....
they want toleration yet refuse to show it. That is the hypocrisy

^_^ funny how that is, isn't it? Tolerate all (well, except those bible people)

[JPPT1974]

Sadly Obama, if people elect him
Then they really have lost it
Sorry to say!:cry:

[Nadiine]

^_^ funny how that is, isn't it? Tolerate all (well, except those bible people)
tolerate everybody... except the ones that disagree with us and buck our program.

That's exactly what they do... and they aren't happy with "toleration", they truly are pushing for acceptance of everything - agreement and acceptance.

it's really bizarre. What worse is, they refuse to see that they're intolerant of those who wish to go another way. It drives me cRAzY! lol

[The Princess Bride]

Thanks for posting this clip. I had not seen it.

I "liked" when he said he would teach them "values and morals". Did I miss something? What "values and morals" does he want to teach kids. If you are punished for having sex by getting pregnant you can just kill the baby and pretend it never happened.

Talk about morally bankrupt. He is supposed to be Christian right?? I must have missed something in my Bible. Can someone point me to the verse that says it is OK to kill innocent babies if they are punishment for sex? (Sorry for the sarcasm. This clip put me in a bad mood. :( )

You can repeat that one. :doh:I seriously hope McCain beats out the both of them.

[TimRout]

As a Canadian, I often experience difficulty with the way my American friends mix politics and religion, in that most of my evangelical buddies are staunchly Republican. That said, as I listen more and more to guys like Obama, I have to admit I am utterly unimpressed with the moral standards of the Democratic Party. God willing, a conservative will be elected in months to come.

[+King+]

This election is really worrying me. I can help but think of the trouble our great nation would fall into if Obama were to become president.

[Nadiine]

As a Canadian, I often experience difficulty with the way my American friends mix politics and religion, in that most of my evangelical buddies are staunchly Republican. That said, as I listen more and more to guys like Obama, I have to admit I am utterly unimpressed with the moral standards of the Democratic Party. God willing, a conservative will be elected in months to come.
Well I don't think it's that we "mix" politics & religion - I think people of a certain religious persuasion lean towards people of a certain political mind frame.

As I see it, liberals are taking over the democratic party - voting democrat amounts to voting liberal anymore and that is the divide.

I found an interesting article by a favorite apologist of mine on this subject. I haven't read it all the way thru, but I skimmed over alot of parts & read some insteresting stuff, you might find it interesting.
I thought the constructivism & deconstructivism part enlightening.

The Conservative Agenda
http://www.normangeisler.net/ConservativeAgenda.html

[edb19]

great link Nadiine - thanks for sharing.

edie

[JPPT1974]

I am praying for a great
And Godly leader
No matter if they are
GOP, Democratic, etc
As long as they have good and moral values to them.

[The Princess Bride]

I am praying for a great
And Godly leader
No matter if they are
GOP, Democratic, etc
As long as they have good and moral values to them.:amen:

[Teh0bb3s]

11/50