Are you christian?( for messianics)

[brentsbaby612]

I'm sure this thread has been done before. But the search was not corporating with me. So.. Let's do it again!! :D

The definition of Christianity is : a person professing the believe in Jesus Christ. Now I can already see what most will say," I don't believe in Jesus but Yeshua. But if you look up the name Jesus, the dictionary traces the root word back to Yeshua.( although I perfer the name yeshua) Plus, how many times has someone said to you "who is Yeshua" and you say "Yeshua is who most call Jesus. Anyway, I was just curious about what everyone else thought. :scratch:

Whoa Opps! I did it again! By messianic judaism I mean messianic gentile and messianic jewish and just plan messianic. My point of this thread is to know how many here consider themselves Christian! Sorry!:sorry:

[ShirChadash]

:doh: LOL -- I just came back to check and sure 'nuff, I goofed and clicked "not sure" ^_^ Boy, I'm really batting well lately :sorry:



Actually, I was going for "other". I am at a point where I detest labels. If it weren't that the only name I know of for the Faith YHVH handed down for His children to follow, the Faith His Messiah Yeshua ratified and filled full, is "Judaism"... I might not call myself an adherant to Messianic Judaism at this point, as maybe I have no right to say I follow Messianic JUDAISM, not being a Jew at all :confused: But I know of no other "label" for the faith of the whole Word. I believe in Yeshua. I believe His faith is Messianic Judaism. I guess, to me that just makes me a believer in, and follower of HaShem and His Messiah, Yeshua. That would make for a long title though, eh? :D Maybe "Messianic Believer" suffices?

[simchat_torah]

I chose "other"....


My wife and I, after extensive discussions tonight, have resolved to continue pursuing our conversion. We do not, nor have not, considered ourselves christians for a number of years now. However, I can not say we are "messianic" Jews either. We may believe Y'shua encapsulated the essence of the messiah, but the poll specifically stated:I do not consider myself a Christian, but a part of Messianic Judaism We (my wife and I) do not agree we are any longer a part of the greater "Messianic Judaism" movement. We are completely in the fold of Judaism. I hope this makes sense.

Thus... I voted "other".

Shalom,
yafet

[iitb]

Off-topic post ahead ;)

My wife and I, after extensive discussions tonight, have resolved to continue pursuing our conversion.
So, how did you resolve the whole "Jesus" issue?

[simchat_torah]

I have always been one to proclaim "Jewish Believer" over "messianic Jew" because the term 'messianic' has come to have so much attached to it. Jewish Believer, as a term, has to some extent, withheld the gaining of extra baggage.

However, it seems that in our journey (and this isn't something that I've shared with the forum until tonight) we no longer must have something to 'qualify' ourselves with. What I mean is that we no longer must explicitly define ourselves in a messianic sense. I am now fine with the simpleness of being Jewish.

plain and simple.

-yafet.



(I, am, the, king, of, comma, splicing. Or, so, my, wife, keeps, harassing, me, for. )

[ShirChadash]

:) *my turn for an OT post...*

That's kewl by me, Yaf. Now, please go answer my post on Kabbalah and Judaism and MJ! ^_^

[simchat_torah]

So, how did you resolve the whole "Jesus" issue?The forum monster ate my eloquent answer. :(
poo hoo.

Justin, I am glad it was you who asked.

My wife and I have each mulled over this for some time independently. After several hours (3-4) tonight, and a wonderfully enriching discussion, we have come to some conclusions. We realized that in the pagan mindset there is a need to have an object to worship.... something tangible. HaShem wanted to deliver a message, not a messenger. The importance and value can be found in the message.
It seems the pagan mindset can not let go of having an object to worship, in this case the messenger.

When the Beit Din asks, "Do you believe Jesus was the messiah"
I can confidently reply, "'Does it matter?" Granted, I won't actually use those words, but the idea is the same nonetheless. If I have embodied the message, does it matter who delivered it? no. I have received the message, have internalized it, and am now living it. That is what HaShem desires.

I will fully expound upon this in more posts, it is late now... but I wanted to answer you... even if only in part.

I feel I can now go before the Beit Din without a guilty conscience.

more later...
Shalom,
yafet

[simchat_torah]

That's kewl by me, Yaf. Now, please go answer my post on Kabbalah and Judaism and MJ!
I will my dear... just not sure if I will make it there tonight or tommorow. I'll try.

My wife was interested in reading your post, and I am too. It has a number of 'deep thoughts' in it. I do have a few things to share as well...



-yafet's a comin-



;)

[visionary]

:doh: LOL -- I just came back to check and sure 'nuff, I goofed and clicked "not sure" ^_^ Boy, I'm really batting well lately :sorry:



Actually, I was going for "other". I am at a point where I detest labels. If it weren't that the only name I know of for the Faith YHVH handed down for His children to follow, the Faith His Messiah Yeshua ratified and filled full, is "Judaism"... I might not call myself an adherant to Messianic Judaism at this point, as maybe I have no right to say I follow Messianic JUDAISM, not being a Jew at all :confused: But I know of no other "label" for the faith of the whole Word. I believe in Yeshua. I believe His faith is Messianic Judaism. I guess, to me that just makes me a believer in, and follower of HaShem and His Messiah, Yeshua. That would make for a long title though, eh? :D Maybe "Messianic Believer" suffices?

You said it. I like the term, BELIEVER, it is generic enough to keep it simple and yet definitely indicating of the Bible believing group. It causes many to inquire more info. It makes it easy to state when others who have stated something that coinsides with what you to believe for you to say "I'm a believer" and fellowship with many. No offensive or objectable status has been equated to this term and I have the freedom to grow in understanding and knowledge without being cemented by organizational fences of what I am allowed to believe.

[ShirChadash]

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I will my dear... just not sure if I will make it there tonight or tommorow. I'll try.

My wife was interested in reading your post, and I am too. It has a number of 'deep thoughts' in it. I do have a few things to share as well...



-yafet's a comin-



;)
:hug: Bless your heart, Yaf. I hope my post last night didn't come off as pushy as it sound this morning to me when i re-read it :eek: -- but I was just feeling playful (blame it on late night, no sleep lately, coffee coffee coffee and... adrenaline ^_^ ) When you get to it, I would love to hear your thoughts. Hug yer wifey for me!

~Z~

[simchat_torah]

Bless your heart, Yaf. I hope my post last night didn't come off as pushy
nah... :)

[brentsbaby612]

Actually, I was going for "other". I am at a point where I detest labels. If it weren't that the only name I know of for the Faith YHVH handed down for His children to follow, the Faith His Messiah Yeshua ratified and filled full, is "Judaism"... I might not call myself an adherant to Messianic Judaism at this point, as maybe I have no right to say I follow Messianic JUDAISM, not being a Jew at all But I know of no other "label" for the faith of the whole Word. I believe in Yeshua. I believe His faith is Messianic Judaism. I guess, to me that just makes me a believer in, and follower of HaShem and His Messiah, Yeshua. That would make for a long title though, eh? Maybe "Messianic Believer" suffices?


Yeah, I like the term messianic believer is a lot more. I dislike labels too(and because of this I don't think it's a big deal to say your a christian) but I was just curious as too who here, if asked, would say "I'm a christian". But again I messed up a poll. I should really stop doing this late on friday night ^_^. Messianic Judaism or gentile, Messianic anything is what that stands for in that poll. I could have just left it at are you a christian but I didn't want posters from other forums participating.

Just to make it clear, I don't concider myself a messianic jew, but messianic christian if anything right now. Maybe someday I will find a way to convert without renounceing Christ, but until then I would not use the "title". I was just thinking of the title of the forum:D.

[brentsbaby612]

So justin, did you choose other for the same reason as yafet?

[iitb]

I just don't like labels. I didn't like the label "Christian" back when I was a card-carrying Southern Baptist! :D

[Henaynei]

LOL - I'm a Messianic Gerah Toshav - but no one ever gives that option ;)

[simchat_torah]

Many of the 'hidden' messianics that you'll find (Jews who don't tell their families/synagogues/friends that they are messianic) will prefer the term "Jewish Believer".

[brentsbaby612]

LOL - I'm a Messianic Gerah Toshav - but no one ever gives that option

Going to have to google that one!^_^

Hey simchat! I was preparing an albert einstein quote for my sig but you beat me! he was really an amazing man, if I had hero's he'd be one of them!:)
(opps, OT!)

[Henaynei]

I'm a Messianic Gerah Toshav - but no one ever gives that option Going to have to google that one!^_^Not so bad actually - though I doubt you will find much on google - so let me help out a little with some excerpts I have gleened.

A Ger Toshav is: not a convert to Judaism, but a gentile who actively chooses to live among Jews - "stranger (ger/goy) in the gates" - they participate in jewish life, while not being jews themselves - they strive to make judaism important in their families' lives - and while not all of them, many of these individuals go on to embrace judaism for themselves later in life - after sojourning in judaism.

Rabbi Steve Greenberg elaborates:
The ger toshav was not a convert. (http://www.clal.org/ss43.html) He was, according to the rabbis, a gentile who lived among the Jewish people, happy to be part of the Jewish world and supportive of the religious and social frames of Jewish life. He could eat tref (nonkosher) but was not permitted to publicly worship other gods, and if he was circumcised, he could partake of the Passover sacrifice. He was a lover of the Jewish people, though not a Jew himself. In many intermarried homes today, this characterization would aptly describe the feelings and commitments of the non-Jewish spouse.As a Messianic Ger(ah [fem.?]) Toshav, you add Yeshua into the mix........

[brentsbaby612]

Cool! Thanks!
Yeah I googled and just found another post by you!^_^

[Henaynei]

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/23/23_14_16.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001) BeWare!!! I am EVERYwhere!!! http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/10/10_3_3.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001)

[Sephania]

The forum monster ate my eloquent answer. :(
poo hoo.

Justin, I am glad it was you who asked.

My wife and I have each mulled over this for some time independently. After several hours (3-4) tonight, and a wonderfully enriching discussion, we have come to some conclusions. We realized that in the pagan mindset there is a need to have an object to worship.... something tangible. HaShem wanted to deliver a message, not a messenger. The importance and value can be found in the message.
It seems the pagan mindset can not let go of having an object to worship, in this case the messenger.

When the Beit Din asks, "Do you believe Jesus was the messiah"
I can confidently reply, "'Does it matter?" Granted, I won't actually use those words, but the idea is the same nonetheless. If I have embodied the message, does it matter who delivered it? no. I have received the message, have internalized it, and am now living it. That is what HaShem desires.

I will fully expound upon this in more posts, it is late now... but I wanted to answer you... even if only in part.

I feel I can now go before the Beit Din without a guilty conscience.

more later...
Shalom,
yafet
May I ask how you reconcile that POV with the words of Yeshua from the gospel of Luke:

2 For there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; neither hid, that shall not be known.

8 Also I say unto you, Whosoever shall confess me before men, him shall the Son of man also confess before the angels of God:
9 But he that denieth me before men shall be denied before the angels of God.

I think he explains in the next verse what that means:

10 And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.

Or from these words of Yochanan?

1 John 2
1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.

20 But ye have received the Messiah's annointing from the Holy One, and you know all things.
21 I have not written to you because you don't know the truth, but because you know it, and because no lie has it's origin in the truth.
22 Who is a liar but he that denis that Yeshua is the Messiah? He is anti-Messiah, he is denying the Father and the Son.
23 Everyone that denys the Son, is also without the Father: but he that acknowledges the Son has the Father as well.
24 Let what you heard from the beginning remain in you and you will remain in union with both the Son and the Father. 25. And this is what he has promised us:eternal life.

:confused:

[JewishHeart]

As a messianic, I believe in the calling of the Jewish people. I believe in keeping the feasts. I believe in keeping Torah...but I think we find ourselves at odds end when we identify ourselves more with Judaism than Messiah. My identity is Messiah..this is why I am messianic. It is a sad day when we are Jewish first and Messianic second. Let us be messianic first and Jewish second. Messianic Judaism is a branch of Judaism and not a different relegion (ie Christianity), but our identity is first Messianic and then Judaism. May we all identify ourselves with Messiah Yeshua and live only for Him.
I know this is controversial, but a spiritual Jew according to Galations is a Jew that believes Yeshua is the Messiah (aka Messianic Jew). It is not the church (Jew and Gentile), and it is not Jewish unbelievers, rather it is Jewish believers. Paul said his greatest desire for Israel that it may be saved!!!! He was willing to give his own salvation for this cause. May we not loose this goal in meddling with rabbinic Judaism.

[JewishHeart]

Simchat,

I love you dear brother, but I plea for you this scripture....

Heb 12:2 looking to Yeshua, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.


Please look to Yeshua to perfect your faith and not to rabbinic Judaism. Please don't keep your eyes off of Him and win the prize!

[JewishHeart]

Before any jumps at me, remember that I also keep Torah / Shabatt/ the feasts, etc.

[Sephania]

Simchat I really would love an answer to this, as I myself have considered following the road that you are on. :)

[P_G]

If you look at my sig you will see all this stuff added in there to try to describe what I am. But succinctly

I am a predenominationalist follower of The Way
First century church if you will.
The closest thing would be a Messinianc Gentile
Grafted in and added with Y'irushaliam.

I only describe myself as "Cristian" to those who would have
no idea what I am talking about.

Believe it or not the Mennonite church has been livng acourding to that
line since nearly it's inception. (At least they are supposed to be)


Blessings

PG (OTHER) :wave:

[torahlife]

I found this an interesting poll.
Most people prefer putting beliefs and ideologies into a box. When one believes something outside another's box, then he is yet again labeled. It seems one is an iest if s/he believes such and such ology which puts him/her in the catagory of an ism. :o

No one wins because no matter the box you're in, you probably believe at least something outside of it. The labels and the boxes are an attempt to deter those who may want to seek out their own answers. Many are forced to sign statements of faith in order to participate in congregational matters, yet how many actually believe everything they were coerced into signing?

I voted other as I cannot be labeled or live within the box of ologies and isms which I am accused of being part of just because I may believe one of the things contained within them. :confused: I do not believe "everything" as defined by any one of the isms so I prefer to consider myself an independant student of the bible.

Blessings,
torahlife

[visionary]

I found this an interesting poll.
Most people prefer putting beliefs and ideologies into a box. When one believes something outside another's box, then he is yet again labeled. It seems one is an iest if s/he believes such and such ology which puts him/her in the catagory of an ism. :o

No one wins because no matter the box you're in, you probably believe at least something outside of it. The labels and the boxes are an attempt to deter those who may want to seek out their own answers. Many are forced to sign statements of faith in order to participate in congregational matters, yet how many actually believe everything they were coerced into signing?

I voted other as I cannot be labeled or live within the box of ologies and isms which I am accused of being part of just because I may believe one of the things contained within them. :confused: I do not believe "everything" as defined by any one of the isms so I prefer to consider myself an independant student of the bible.

Blessings,
torahlife

Yeshua never attached labels to that which He was, is and will be. Like Him, we are to follow the way, the truth, and the Torah as it is in Yeshua. I agree, labels can cause someone to think that "it" has salvation. Many a believer has gathered under a label, thinking this is the way to salvation, closed their eyes to the increasing light upon the truth, the way, and after awhile are left in the dark. I like the idea to stay in the light, prayerfully keep my eyes open for more insights from the teachings of the Holy Spirit upon His Word. I like the idea of growing and maturing in the truth of Yeshua. I like the idea of the freedom of thought, the increasing in understanding and wisdom that can only come from God. Gleanings from everytime I open up the Torah and Scripture, change me because I do not put it up against some doctrine, some organization, some creed to see if it is acceptable to believe that which the Holy Spirit has opened up my understanding to see. The Shephard makes me to lie down in green pastures, restoreth my soul and I will dwell in the house of the Lord forever. Amen

[The Thadman]

I see any sort of classification as I do denominations: I do not "ascribe" to any one of them, but see them as adjectives.

The adjectives I use to describe myself within the context of Messianic Judaism are "Messianic" and "Karaite" because they best describe how I view the world :) As you see I cannot be a "true" Karaite according to the "official" movements because I (God forbid) believe that Yeshua` is the Messiah (scandal!), but I do adhere to the main tennets of Karaism on my own principles.

To illustrate, it was after I "became a Karaite" I discovered that they existed ;)

"Messianic," although it may carry some theological baggage, I think we can all agree carries less than "Christian," and in addition it implies an adherence to Torah. :)

So in this sense the descriptor "Messianic Karaite" (one who is, in faith, a Jew, rejecting rabbinicism, believing in Yeshua` Natzraya as the Messiah and following Torah) would be the same function as "Episcopal Baptist" (one who believes that baptism is essencial for salvation and uses a layer of overseers (episkopoi) in their organization).

I hope this ... makes ... sense. :)

Peace!
-Steve-o

[Sephania]

Steve that blinking and disappearing ( rapturing?) avatar is a mite disconcerting. :) When did you do that?

[simchat_torah]

Yes, I have seen the questions, but I've been insanely busy the past couple of days. I'll be around to answer it sooner than later.

-yafet

[The Thadman]

Steve that blinking and disappearing ( rapturing?) avatar is a mite disconcerting. :) When did you do that?

Tuesday January 11th, 2004 at 11:17 PM. :)

It's not "rapturing," per se, but flashing back and forth over things of note on my animated alter-ego. :)

1000 blessings to whoever figures them all out, in order! :)

Peace!
-Steve-o

[Nora7]

Shalom,

I consider myself a Messianic Jew. I am Jewish and I believe in Messiah. I am also firmly committed to the Messianic Jewish movement. As a whole, they are not where I would like them to be--but I know that they are still growing and defining themselves. The role of Messisanic Jews will be vital to both the church and to secular and traditional Jews in the end times (which I believe we are in already)

As for Yeshua/Jesus. I follow Yeshua Ha Mashiach. He was fully a Jew in all his ways. Jesus however evolved to reflect a more westernized model of the Messiah--Especially in how his is physically portrayed and in the interpretation of his words in the Brit Hadasha. His teachings are taken in a western context as opposed to the original Jewish background and customs that it reflected.

These are my thoughts and opinions...Hopefully no one is offended for that is not my intent. But just in case please accept my apology if there has been an offense.
Nora

[brentsbaby612]

Tuesday January 11th, 2004 at 11:17 PM.

It's not "rapturing," per se, but flashing back and forth over things of note on my animated alter-ego.

1000 blessings to whoever figures them all out, in order!

Peace!


uhhh, lets see.. Hand waveing, Rutgers University T-shirt and necklaces, black pants with some kinda studs on them, Combat boots, hand in your pocket.

[The Thadman]

uhhh, lets see.. Hand waveing, Rutgers University T-shirt and necklaces, black pants with some kinda studs on them, Combat boots, hand in your pocket.

You've got 1 out of 4 correct: my Rutgers U T-Shirt.

I go to Rutgers U, and tried to make that apparent in the Avatar. ;)

Now, you need to find the significance of the other three (hint: keep going on the idea that they're combat/hiking boots). :)

Peace!
-Steve-o

[Hix]

I would tell but I cheated (saved it and opened it in Animation Shop ;) )

[Sephania]

I believe I noticed some tzitzi there as well. :)

[The Thadman]

I believe I noticed some tzitzi there as well. :)

~Ding!~ Correct :)

2 down, 2 to go :D

Peace!
-Steve-o

[The Thadman]

I would tell but I cheated (saved it and opened it in Animation Shop ;) )

Dirty rotten cheater ;) Shame! Shame!

... er sorry, I can't do the Baptist thing very well this morning. I'm all fire and brimstoned out. :)

Peace!
-Steve-o

[Sephania]

Not sure but is there a ring on that hand?

[mjterry87]

I just call myself a Messianic. I am not a Christian because I don't believe in Jesus, because to the Christians Jesus taught us not to follow Judaism. I believe in Yeshua who told us to follow Judaism, there for I am a Messianic Jew. A Jew who believes in Yeshua as the Messiah. I was not born a Jew but Spiritually I am a Jew.

[The Thadman]

Not sure but is there a ring on that hand?
~Nod nod nod~ :)

3 out of 4.

C'mon someone needs to give me all 4, now. :)

Peace!
-Steve-o

[sojeru]

for Yafet,

Yafet... like I have said, though you may disagree- you can convert while you never would have to denounce the messiahship of Yeshuah.
By Saying that Yeshuah is Messiah, is this diefying him?
Are you going to be charged with idolatry if the Beit din Asks you this?
OR will they even ask you at all?
What do they see about you to allow you to convert?
If they ask you something in regards to Yeshuah means that they do not know who you are- thus also means that you are not a part of the community in which at least one of the members of the Beit Din is a part of.
I know I am not speaking in a completeness- please PM me... but as I said before- there is much more going on behind the scenes than what is the superficial problem at hand.
talk with me:)
shalom u'brachot dear friend,
Antonio

[Henaynei]

hiking boots?

[Henaynei]

Ya know, it says something that several of us find ourselves sitting and staring at an avatar waiting for it to move {LOL, hehehe, LOL}

[Talmidah]

His avatar moves?????? I stared at it for a long time, and all I saw it do was blink every once in a while.....

[The Thadman]

/me thinks to himself, "Yeeeessss, I have them paranoid now. Just a little longer and their chocolate chip cookies are mine!"

Bwahahahaha!

Peace!
-Steve-o

[Henaynei]

His avatar moves?????? I stared at it for a long time, and all I saw it do was blink every once in a while.....LOL - you just didn't stare long enough - and if you look away for just a sec, you'll miss it, honest ..... LOL

[simchat_torah]

Yafet... like I have said, though you may disagree- you can convert while you never would have to denounce the messiahship of Yeshuah.
While I know of many Rabbinical sources that disagree with the Beit Din of today, I haven't found a single Beit Din (or Rabbi for that matter) who would do such. If you've found a Beit Din that will do an Orthdox (or conservative) conversion while not asking you to denounce 'jesus' please share...

Are you going to be charged with idolatry if the Beit din Asks you this?
OR will they even ask you at all?
Yes
and
yes.

What do they see about you to allow you to convert?
I'm not quite sure what you mean. I've been attending synagogue for over 3 years now. I pracitce Judaism probably in a more observant way than most of the congregants.

If they ask you something in regards to Yeshuah means that they do not know who you are- thus also means that you are not a part of the community in which at least one of the members of the Beit Din is a part of.
I'm more than a part of the community.
Careful with what you say achi ;)

I know I still have questions in this thread I haven't answered. I've been swamped at work the past two days, and last night I laid down at 7pm for a "nap" and didn't get up till 7am (consider this: I haven't slept more than 3 hours a night for the past week straight).

Anywho... I'll try to repsond to everyone's replies sometime later today if possible.

shalom and shalom,
yafet

[Sephania]

Does the outerwear have something to do with IDF?

[Sephania]

Ya know, it says something that several of us find ourselves sitting and staring at an avatar waiting for it to move {LOL, hehehe, LOL}What's even weirder is that he seems to blink when I naturally blink...........................................ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ( insert terrified smilie here)

[Talmidah]

LOL - you just didn't stare long enough - and if you look away for just a sec, you'll miss it, honest ..... LOL

I saw it!!! Wow, I feel like I've accomplished something LOL (This is such a constructive use of my time :P )

[brentsbaby612]

You've got 1 out of 4 correct: my Rutgers U T-Shirt.

I go to Rutgers U, and tried to make that apparent in the Avatar.

Now, you need to find the significance of the other three (hint: keep going on the idea that they're combat/hiking boots).

Peace!
-Steve-o


combat boots...combat boots... Let's see.. my brother has some of those and he's in the military. Are they Military Boots! What ... were you in the military or something? Or were you just a skater/freak like me in high school?Oh wait maybe your in band! I wore my combat boots to all the games when I was in drumline. Hmmmm, am I at least close!!?

[The Thadman]

Are they Military Boots!
Very close, but think more metaphorically :)

(Remember I said the first one to list them in order, too!)

Peace!
-Steve-o

[Sephania]

sTeve, so my post 50 isn't correct?

[Sephania]

One more stab:

Married
Rutgers aramaic man
wearing tzitzit
doing spiritual warfare.....................................................?

[The Thadman]

One more stab:

Married
Rutgers aramaic man
wearing tzitzit
doing spiritual warfare.....................................................?

~DING DING DING!~

Correct!

Have 1000 blessings! :)

Peace!
-Steve-o

[Sephania]

Really? No! I was only guessing, Us old folks can't follow things that quickly! ;)

Too cool though, I guess I ain't too old yet! :D

[Henaynei]

Way to Go Zayit!!!

[Sephania]

Todah Rabah! :D

[Sephania]

.

I know I still have questions in this thread I haven't answered. I've been swamped at work the past two days, and last night I laid down at 7pm for a "nap" and didn't get up till 7am (consider this: I haven't slept more than 3 hours a night for the past week straight).

Anywho... I'll try to repsond to everyone's replies sometime later today if possible.

shalom and shalom,
yafetYes, and you did find time to answer this one, not very orderly of you, not to mention fair ;) . I have patiently waited, killing time here staring at Steve's alter (for more time than I will admit to :eek:) So...now since the mystery of Steve's avatar is over and I have seen you post extensivly in the techelet thread, how about answering my questions? You are not Steven King, and this is not the Green Mile!:P ( if this is before your time and you don't understand this let me know ;) )

[simchat_torah]

Yes, and you did find time to answer this one, not very orderly of you, not to mention fair ;)hahah... i know... but that one was easy to respond to, didn't take much thought.

So...now since the mystery of Steve's avatar is over and I have seen you post extensivly in the techelet thread...
That took only 10 minutes of research. Go look at my many replies to him and you'll see the time difference between those posts is quite minimal.

You are not Steven King, and this is not the Green Mile!:P ( if this is before your time and you don't understand this let me know ;) )
Oh, I get it ;)


Anyway, I fully intend upon answering today. no worries...

[Sephania]

Todah Achi! :) ( anxiously awaiting and hoping it doesn't cause her to bite ALL her nails off! )

[brentsbaby612]

oh! pooh:(..
Zayit got it before me! Oh well, she deserved it more. I couldn't see the ring. I get headaches if I stare at the computer too long. Not to mention boredom!!^_^

Good job Zayit!! way'd go!!:clap:

[simchat_torah]

Todah Achi! :) ( anxiously awaiting and hoping it doesn't cause her to bite ALL her nails off! )bah humbug...

you'll have to blame muffler dragon for me not replying.


we ended up talking on the phone most of the night, you know, talkin bout this big guy up in the sky .... can't recall his name at the moment ;)

[simchat_torah]

keep your nails, they are too pretty to get dinged up over my account.

[iitb]

bah humbug...[/size][/color][/font]

you'll have to blame muffler dragon for me not replying.


we ended up talking on the phone most of the night, you know, talkin bout this big guy up in the sky .... can't recall his name at the moment ;)

Colorado Springs is at a pretty decent elevation, but to say I'm "up in the sky" might be a bit of a stretch! :D :P

[Talmidah]

Colorado Springs is at a pretty decent elevation, but to say I'm "up in the sky" might be a bit of a stretch!

Oh my goodness!!!!!! I say time for a debate about this!!!!!!! :P

[Shamash Of Yeshua]

I'm sure this thread has been done before. But the search was not corporating with me. So.. Let's do it again!! :D

The definition of Christianity is : a person professing the believe in Jesus Christ. Now I can already see what most will say," I don't believe in Jesus but Yeshua. But if you look up the name Jesus, the dictionary traces the root word back to Yeshua.( although I perfer the name yeshua) Plus, how many times has someone said to you "who is Yeshua" and you say "Yeshua is who most call Jesus. Anyway, I was just curious about what everyone else thought. :scratch:

Whoa Opps! I did it again! By messianic judaism I mean messianic gentile and messianic jewish and just plan messianic. My point of this thread is to know how many here consider themselves Christian! Sorry!:sorry:
Shalom and Shalom brentsbaby612,

Many The SON of The MOST HIGH ELOHIM who was Appointed by The MOST HIGH ELOHIM is our HIGH PRIEST, Who stands before THE MOST HIGH ELOHIM and Talks on our behalf as Moshe did to Israel. Is it really Christianity or rather let's put this in Hebrew terms. Is it really Messianic? By all means it is. Moshe was Mashiach for Israel. Isn't it befitting that Yeshua is HaMashiach. BY ALL MEANS. Because HaShem appointed Yeshua KING of Kings, which the same, Yoseph was appointed by Pharoah as his Right Hand only because HaShem caused the appointment for HIS benefit. HIS NAME IS MOST BLEST. So therefore what or who is Yeshua? Yeshua is HaMashiach. So was Moshe, but not in the ONE CHOSEN ONE way like Yeshua. Yoseph was a Chosen One of THE MOST HIGH ELOHIM and he RULED the Known World. As Yeshua HaMashiach will rule the World, but also the Heavens and everything else in existance except for ONE, THE MOST HIGH ELOHIM, HaShem, YHVH.


1Co 15:1-58 HNV
Now I declare to you, brothers, the Good News which I preached to you, which also you received, in which you also stand, (2) by which also you are saved, if you hold firmly the word which I preached to you--unless you believed in vain. (3) For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Messiah died for our sins according to the Scriptures, (4) that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, (5) and that he appeared to Kefa, then to the twelve. (6) Then he appeared to over five hundred brothers at once, most of whom remain until now, but some have also fallen asleep. (7) Then he appeared to Ya`akov, then to all the emissaries, (8) and last of all, as to the child born at the wrong time, he appeared to me also. (9) For I am the least of the emissaries, who is not worthy to be called an emissary, because I persecuted the assembly of God. (10) But by the grace of God I am what I am. His grace which was bestowed on me was not futile, but I worked more than all of them; yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me. (11) Whether then it is I or they, so we preach, and so you believed. (12) Now if Messiah is preached, that he has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? (13) But if there is no resurrection of the dead, neither has Messiah been raised. (14) If Messiah has not been raised, then our preaching is in vain, and your faith also is in vain. (15) Yes, we are found false witnesses of God, because we testified about God that he raised up Messiah, whom he didn't raise up, if it is so that the dead are not raised. (16) For if the dead aren't raised, neither has Messiah been raised. (17) If Messiah has not been raised, your faith is vain; you are still in your sins. (18) Then they also who are fallen asleep in Messiah have perished. (19) If we have only hoped in Messiah in this life, we are of all men most pitiable. (20) But now Messiah has been raised from the dead. He became the first fruits of those who are asleep. (21) For since death came by man, the resurrection of the dead also came by man. (22) For as in Adam all die, so also in Messiah all will be made alive. (23) But each in his own order: Messiah the first fruits, then those who are Messiah's, at his coming. (24) Then the end comes, when he will deliver up the Kingdom to God, even the Father; when he will have abolished all rule and all authority and power. (25) For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. (26) The last enemy that will be abolished is death. (27) For, "He put all things in subjection under his feet." But when he says, "All things are put in subjection," it is evident that he is excepted who subjected all things to him. (28) When all things have been subjected to him, then the Son will also himself be subjected to him who subjected all things to him, that God may be all in all. (29) Or else what will they do who are immersed for the dead? If the dead aren't raised at all, why then are they immersed for the dead? (30) Why do we also stand in jeopardy every hour? (31) I affirm, by the boasting in you which I have in Messiah Yeshua our Lord, I die daily. (32) If I fought with animals at Ephesus for human purposes, what does it profit me? If the dead are not raised, then "let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die." (33) Don't be deceived! "Evil companionships corrupt good morals." (34) Wake up righteously, and don't sin, for some have no knowledge of God. I say this to your shame. (35) But someone will say, "How are the dead raised?" and, "With what kind of body do they come?" (36) You foolish one, that which you yourself sow is not made alive unless it dies. (37) That which you sow, you don't sow the body that will be, but a bare grain, maybe of wheat, or of some other kind. (38) But God gives it a body even as it pleased him, and to each seed a body of its own. (39) All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one flesh of men, another flesh of animals, another of fish, and another of birds. (40) There are also celestial bodies, and terrestrial bodies; but the glory of the celestial differs from that of the terrestrial. (41) There is one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differs from another star in glory. (42) So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption. (43) It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised in power. (44) It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body and there is also a spiritual body. (45) So also it is written, "The first man, Adam, became a living soul." The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. (46) However that which is spiritual isn't first, but that which is natural, then that which is spiritual. (47) The first man is of the earth, made of dust. The second man is the Lord from heaven. (48) As is the one made of dust, such are those who are also made of dust; and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. (49) As we have borne the image of those made of dust, let's also bear the image of the heavenly. (50) Now I say this, brothers, that flesh and blood can't inherit the Kingdom of God; neither does corruption inherit incorruption. (51) Behold, I tell you a mystery. We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, (52) in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last shofar. For the shofar will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we will be changed. (53) For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. (54) But when this corruptible will have put on incorruption, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then what is written will happen: "Death is swallowed up in victory." (55) "Death, where is your sting? She'ol, where is your victory?" (56) The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. (57) But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Yeshua the Messiah. (58) Therefore, my beloved brothers, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the Lord's work, because you know that your labor is not in vain in the Lord.


Rom 3:1-31 HNV
Then what advantage does the Jew have? Or what is the profit of circumcision? (2) Much in every way! Because first of all, they were entrusted with the oracles of God. (3) For what if some were without faith? Will their lack of faith nullify the faithfulness of God? (4) May it never be! Yes, let God be found true, but every man a liar. As it is written, "That you might be justified in your words, and might prevail when you come into judgment." (5) But if our unrighteousness commends the righteousness of God, what will we say? Is God unrighteous who inflicts wrath? I speak like men do. (6) May it never be! For then how will God judge the world? (7) For if the truth of God through my lie abounded to his glory, why am I also still judged as a sinner? (8) Why not (as we are slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say), "Let us do evil, that good may come?" Those who say so are justly condemned. (9) What then? Are we better than they? No, in no way. For we previously charged both Jews and Greeks, that they are all under sin. (10) As it is written, "There is no one righteous; no, not one. (11) There is no one who understands. There is no one who seeks after God. (12) They have all turned aside. They have together become unprofitable. There is no one who does good, no, not, so much as one." (13) "Their throat is an open tomb. With their tongues they have used deceit." "The poison of vipers is under their lips;" (14) "Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness." (15) "Their feet are swift to shed blood. (16) Destruction and misery are in their ways. (17) The way of shalom, they haven't known." (18) "There is no fear of God before their eyes." (19) Now we know that whatever things the law says, it speaks to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be closed, and all the world may be brought under the judgment of God. (20) Because by the works of the law, no flesh will be justified in his sight. For through the law comes the knowledge of sin. (21) But now apart from the law, a righteousness of God has been revealed, being testified by the Torah and the Prophets; (22) even the righteousness of God through faith in Yeshua the Messiah to all and on all those who believe. For there is no distinction, (23) for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God; (24) being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Messiah Yeshua; (25) whom God set forth to be an atoning sacrifice, through faith in his blood, for a demonstration of his righteousness through the passing over of prior sins, in God's forbearance; (26) to demonstrate his righteousness at this present time; that he might himself be just, and the justifier of him who has faith in Yeshua. (27) Where then is the boasting? It is excluded. By what manner of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith. (28) We maintain therefore that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. (29) Or is God the God of Jews only? Isn't he the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, (30) since indeed there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith, and the uncircumcised through faith. (31) Do we then nullify the law through faith? May it never be! No, we establish the law.
The MAIN Issue being that Yeshua is made out to be THE MOST HIGH ELOHIM, yet in many places within the B'rit Khadashah and even Paul's letters speak of TWO seperate Entities. Read and reread Paul's letters where he talks of THE MOST HIGH ELOHIM and Yeshua. We shall have ONE FAITH, ONE HOPE, ONE AGAPE, ONE HIGH PRIEST, ONE ELOHIM.

What benefit is there for a Jew? Much in every way. How are you going to join the Jews in the Passover Feast? You need to be circumcised if you want to join that feast according to Torah. So what benefit is there in being a Jew? You think about that one for a while. I am a gentile to the best that I know of. Yet I haven't searched my ancestry. Who knows maybe there is some kind of pull for me to want to KNOW THE TRUTH that will SET ME FREE INDEED. Didn't Yeshua say that the Pharisees and Scribes sit in Moshe's Seat? Yes He did. And didn't Yeshua say to DO WHAT THEY SAY? Yes He did. What else did He say? He continued "Don't do what they do..." They would Horde it over those who weren't the Priests. Sit in the Most prominiant places. Not to put down A N Y O N E, but we must SEARCH and SPEAK THE TRUTH. How does one speak the TRUTH? They pray and pray and study and pray and pray some more, cry many tears, pray, pray, pray... Then when you KNOW for certain that YOU are HIS then speak up. Just remember we will ANSWER for any words we speak that are not right.

Now let me ask you. Was Yeshua a Jew? BLEST IS He Who COMES IN THE NAME OF HaShem. That would be the Jew named Yeshua of Nazaret. Who is our ADONI. Just remember He will hand everything over to THE MOST HIGH ELOHIM when He has conquered DEATH, which is the LAST THING TO BE CONQUERED.

Shalom and Shalom to all of THE MOST HIGH ELOHIM Sons and Daughters, who are all Brothers and Sisters to Yeshua HaMashiach our Adoni who HaShem has appointed,

Tag

[brentsbaby612]

Tag,
I totally agree with you, for seven years now I have wanted to follow the faith of Yeshua. But because I observe the torah, can I not be a christian. My point before, isn't a christian one who believes Yeshua was the messiah? How can I say I'm not a christian? It feels like I'm saying I don't beleive Yeshua was the messiah.
in peace/ BB

[goy]

Here's my 2 agorot's worth:

I just returned from holidaying in Ysrael where I found out that to say "I'm a Christian" can be a political statement. I suspect it could be the same in many places in the middle-east.

Here in USA, the same statement primarily implies religious beliefs.

So... may be it depends largely on context when one should prefer saying "I'm a believer in Yshua" and when it's ok to say "I'm a Christian" ? I'm suggesting that because I see that context largely influences definition. If it were unambiguously clear throughout the world that "Christian means a follower of Yshua" (nothing more and nothing less) as it doubtlessly was in Antioch during the 1st Century, then I would not need to be careful to switch to saying "I'm a believer in Yshua" when in Ysrael.

[Henaynei]

Tag,
I totally agree with you, for seven years now I have wanted to follow the faith of Yeshua. But because I observe the torah, can I not be a christian. My point before, isn't a christian one who believes Yeshua was the messiah? How can I say I'm not a christian? It feels like I'm saying I don't beleive Yeshua was the messiah.
in peace/ BBEssentially simple definations are these:
Christian: a follower of Jesus, believer that He is Christ/Messiah and G-d, who serves Him within a hellenistic (non-Jewish) cultural and theological context.

Messianic: a follower of Yeshua, believer that He is HaMoshiakh and HaShem, who serves Him within the Jewish cultural and theological context.

Messianics are not Christian, Christians are not Messianic.......

Both serve G-d, Both are saved. But they are different ;)

[Shamash Of Yeshua]

Shalom,

Where is Truth when it has even one lie within it? Can you please explain the following:
1Co 15:24-28
(24) Then the end comes, when he(Yeshua) will deliver up the Kingdom to God, even the Father; when he(Yeshua) will have abolished all rule and all authority and power. (25) For he(Yeshua) must reign until he(Yeshua) has put all his enemies under his feet. (26) The last enemy that will be abolished is death. (27) For, "He put all things in subjection under his feet." But when he says, "All things are put in subjection," it is evident that he(HaShem) is excepted who(HaShem) subjected all things to him(Yeshua). (28) When all things have been subjected to him(Yeshua), then the Son will also himself(Yeshua) be subjected to him(HaShem) who subjected all things to him(Yeshua), that God may be all in all.

Also when Yeshua was called "Good" what did He reply? You should know the answer.

Shalom,

Tag

[Higher Truth]

So then, did Paul, who was a Jew, and a pharisee, the son of a pharisee, with a formal Hebrew religious education mis-speak when he said this:

Acts 26

22 Then obtaining help from God, I stand until this day, witnessing both to small and to great, saying nothing else than what the prophets and Moses also said was going to happen:
23 whether Christ was liable to suffer, whether first by a resurrection of the dead He was going to proclaim light to the people and to the nations.
24 ¶ And he defending himself with these things, Festus said with a loud voice, Paul, You rave! Your many letters turned you into madness.
25 But he said, Not to madness, most excellent Festus, but I speak words of truth and sanity.
26 For the king understands about these things, to whom I speak, even being bold of speech. For I am persuaded not any of these things are hidden from him, nothing. For the doing of this is not in a corner.
27 Do you believe the prophets, king Agrippa? I know that you believe.
28 And Agrippa said to Paul, Do you persuade me to become a Christian in but a little?
29 And Paul said, I would pray to God, both in a little and in much, not only you, but also these hearing me today to become as I also am, except for these bonds.
30 And he saying these things, the king and the governor and Bernice rose up, and those who sat with them.
31 And having gone aside, they spoke to one another saying, This man does nothing worthy of death or of bonds.
32 And Agrippa said to Festus, This man was able to have been let go, if he had not appealed to Caesar.


HT:

Notice in the above passage that Paul had no problem with the term "Christian".

[Higher Truth]

How about Peter, did he mis-speak:

1 Peter 4

15 For do not let any of you suffer as a murderer, or a thief, or an evildoer, or as a meddler in the affairs of others.
16 But if one suffers as a Christian, do not let him be ashamed, but to glorify God in this respect.
17 Because the time has come to begin the judgment from the house of God; and if firstly from us, what will be the end of the ones disobeying the gospel of God?
18 And "if the righteous is scarcely saved, where will the ungodly and sinner appear?" Proverbs 11:31
19 So as indeed the ones suffering according to God's will, as to a faithful Creator, let them commit their souls in well-doing.


Peter, who was a Jew, instructs that anyone following Messiah, who suffers as a CHRISTIAN need not be ashamed.

[Henaynei]

So then, did Paul, who was a Jew, and a pharisee, the son of a pharisee, with a formal Hebrew religious education mis-speak when he said this:


HT:

Notice in the above passage that Paul had no problem with the term "Christian". Of course not - Festus was: 1) in authority and baiting Sha'ul with a well know epithet (Sha'ul was not there to pick a fight but to witness to the Roman court) and 2) since Festus was a gentile Christian would have been what he would have become ;) IF he had chosen submission to Yeshua ;)

[Henaynei]

How about Peter, did he mis-speak:

1 Peter 4:16

Peter, who was a Jew, instructs that anyone following Messiah, who suffers as a CHRISTIAN need not be ashamed. No, he did not, but then he was speaking to gentile believers:

1Peter 1:1Peter, (http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Greek/grk.cgi?number=4074&version=kjv) an apostle (http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Greek/grk.cgi?number=652&version=kjv) of Jesus (http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Greek/grk.cgi?number=2424&version=kjv) Christ, (http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Greek/grk.cgi?number=5547&version=kjv) to the strangers (http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Greek/grk.cgi?number=3927&version=kjv) (ger toshav - strangers within the gate; gentiles who fear HaShem) scattered (http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Greek/grk.cgi?number=1290&version=kjv) throughout Pontus, (http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Greek/grk.cgi?number=4195&version=kjv) Galatia, (http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Greek/grk.cgi?number=1053&version=kjv) Cappadocia, (http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Greek/grk.cgi?number=2587&version=kjv) Asia, (http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Greek/grk.cgi?number=773&version=kjv) and (http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Greek/grk.cgi?number=2532&version=kjv) Bithynia, (http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Greek/grk.cgi?number=978&version=kjv)

[brentsbaby612]

Essentially simple definations are these:
Christian: a follower of Jesus, believer that He is Christ/Messiah and G-d, who serves Him within a hellenistic (non-Jewish) cultural and theological context.

Messianic: a follower of Yeshua, believer that He is HaMoshiakh and HaShem, who serves Him within the Jewish cultural and theological context.

Messianics are not Christian, Christians are not Messianic.......

These is a defininion that you and others have defined. Not the bible , not Paul, not HaShem. The bible speaks of christians, the bible is for jews and gentiles. All of it, there is no book just for Gentiles.
When someone asks you who is yeshua? Do you not say "whom you call Jesus". Jesus is the english name for yeshua. And yes I prefer yeshua over jesus too.
Isn't being messianic the way christianity was suppose to be? If not for catholicism and Constantine would it not have been messianic. The term christian was around before catholicism. I for one am not going to allow those who do not follow the original christianity have it! It's no different then letting homosexuals have the rainbow.

[Higher Truth]

Henny:

2) since Festus was a gentile Christian would have been what he would have become ;) IF he had chosen submission to Yeshua ;)

HT:

So then, am I to assume that since you are of a non-Jewish bloodline, and you say that you have submitted to Yeshua, then are you a Christian?

[simchat_torah]

The term christian appears 3 times in the Greek text. The word disciple appears a couple hundred times. Christian was used as a derrogatory term by the Romans. Why the sudden need, other than "this is how I was raised and I can't let go of it", do people cling so tightly to the label?

[iitb]

Why do people cling to any label? It's not out of a desire to follow G-d, but to belong to a clique. May seem a little harsh, but that's my personal opinion.

[Henaynei]

Henny:

2) since Festus was a gentile Christian would have been what he would have become ;) IF he had chosen submission to Yeshua ;)

HT:

So then, am I to assume that since you are of a non-Jewish bloodline, and you say that you have submitted to Yeshua, then are you a Christian? No, as according to scripture I am among those "gentiles which believe" who "heard Moshe preached every Shabbat in the Synagogue" and have taken on the cloak of Torah. I am a Messianic Ger Toshav. :)

[Henaynei]

Why do people cling to any label? It's not out of a desire to follow G-d, but to belong to a clique. May seem a little harsh, but that's my personal opinion. The labels others use to describe us define us in their eyes - I desire to be defined as what I am, not what they think I am or what they want me to be ;)

[Higher Truth]

Simchat:



The term christian appears 3 times in the Greek text. The word disciple appears a couple hundred times. Christian was used as a derrogatory term by the Romans. Why the sudden need, other than "this is how I was raised and I can't let go of it", do people cling so tightly to the label?





HT:



The terms Messianic Jew, Messianic, Jewish believer, and Messianic Ger Toshav do not appear in the Greek text at all. Messianic Ger Toshav does not appear in the Hebrew texts either. I have heard the argument by those who hate the Name of Jesus, and the term Christian, stating that the name is derogatory, but as of yet, no one has supplied any proof of this statement besides contrived accusations by some Hebrew root “scholars”.

[simchat_torah]

Jew appears how many times?
As well, I don't refer to myself as a MEssianic Jew, Messianic, etc... so all of those titles you just listed don't seem to apply, now do they ;)

[simchat_torah]

I have heard the argument by those who hate the Name of Jesus, and the term Christian, stating that the name is derogatory...
This isn't a messianic idea. This comes from history, that the Romans would use the term "christian" which in Greek means "little christ" as a derrogatory term. The Romans would refer to the believers as little messiahs running around. This is pretty much common knowledge, not something that any particular 'sacred namer' group uncovered. You'll hear it preached from pulpits in churches.

[Higher Truth]

Simchat:

As well, I don't refer to myself as a MEssianic Jew, Messianic, etc... so all of those titles you just listed don't seem to apply, now do they

HT:

Only if you have just recently stopped referring to yourself as a Jewish believer. Please review my list above again. If I remember correctly the "little christs" heresy came from the charismatic movement, but you can not define that explanation from any Greek text. I will be happy Simchat if you can show mw my error on this. After all, we are all here to learn. ;)

[simchat_torah]

If I remember correctly the "little christs" heresy came from the charismatic movement...
are you saying charasmatics are:
... those who hate the Name of Jesus, and the term Christian...

I'm pretty sure you are mixing two different ideas. Benny Hinn stated many heretical things, one of which implies that we are messiahs, or little g-ds... deities. The other is idea of the Greek and history of the term Christian.

[simchat_torah]

The meaning of christian:
From Didaskalos Ministries:
"Christian" is a term that the unbelieving world attached to the believer in Christ in order to ridicule him. The word actually means "little Christ".
from The Good News Society:The word Christian, which means "little Christ"...

From Truth Seekers:The word means "little Christ"...
From an article titled "What Do The Words Mean?":The word Christian literally means "little Christ." [/qoute]
from the internation religious watch:
[quote]Although the word "Christian" was a word applied to followers of Christ by those outside the movement, it simply means "little Christ" or "follower of Christ"

from NuVerb:
The word literally means "little Christ" signifying that one is like Christ.
from Brethren Revival Fellowship:
It essentially means a "little Christ,"

[simchat_torah]

I could google that all day ;)

[Sephania]

:sigh: You know HT, frankly I am tired and discussed at these constant bait fests. This forum here is not a debate one, why must you constantly try to make every thread here and every post directed at Yafet into a demand for rebutting??????

[simchat_torah]

Simchat stated:

The meaning of christian:

and:

I could google that all day

HT:

I can google all day and find that kabbalah is mysticism and that many of the extra biblical writings that you have posted in the past are heresy, and that YAHSHUA is the only true name of the Messiah. Would that mean that you would agree with it? Show me the translation from the Koine Greek Simchat. This is my simple challenge. Use scripture as proof. All else is opinions of men.
My point was:
1) I am not drawing from any sacred namer, messianic, anti-christian sources. Everything I provided was purely a christian source. This is common knowledge, not something mystical or hiden.
2) That it isn't something exclusively invented by the modern word-faith (charasmatic) denominations, but is something understood all across the board in christianity.

[simchat_torah]

Quite frankly Zayit, I don't think that Simchat needs you or anyone else as support.

How high and mighty of you HT.


I think others here can form relationships, etc from one another without your attacks. I can choose to support whoever I want without constant judgement from you and I would expect the same level of respect in return.

You do not respect others here and should be banned.

[Higher Truth]

Simchat:

My point was:
1) I am not drawing from any sacred namer, messianic, anti-christian sources. Everything I provided was purely a christian source. This is common knowledge, not something mystical or hiden.
2) That it isn't something exclusively invented by the modern word-faith (charasmatic) denominations, but is something understood all across the board in christianity.



HT:

Pre-Trib rapture is "understood" all across the board in the majority of the Christian denominations, but is that what the scriptures tells us. God laughs at the "wisdom" of men. That is why the yardstick is His Word. He says that He is true and EVERY man a liar. Who then is the faithful witness? This is why I must be shown in the Koine Greek, or I can not accept it.

[simchat_torah]

:sigh: You know HT, frankly I am tired and discussed at these constant bait fests.
You know, sometimes I've been accused of being a 'biblical donkey' ;)
and I've often stepped on toes...
But I personally despise it when people stoop to this level.

I know it annoys others beyond myself as well.

This forum here is not a debate one, why must you constantly try to make every thread here and every post directed at Yafet into a demand for rebutting??????
He's been doing it for nearly a year now. He harasses those who are not 'christian enough' for his flavor. He seems to have singled me out because I don't tolerate it ;)

I try not to distance myself (other than by theology) from those who are closer to the christian end of the spectrum (eh Pg? ;) ). But it seems HT will never learn tolerance. I'm only surprised he has been allowed to go on such an offensive attack for so long, even stooping to targeting my personal life many times.

Its hard to teach an old dog new tricks :( But respect is one thing that is utterly necessary in a discussion forum.

*sigh*

[simchat_torah]

[quote]Pre-Trib rapture is "understood" all across the board in the majority of the Christian denominations...[/qoute]
We aren't talking theologies...

apples and oranges HT.

[iitb]

Closed for review.