political democrats/liberals and Christianity

[Nadiine]

I have a question that nags at me as far as democratic Christians....
When they vote for democrats, do they actually not realize that it's a promotion of liberalism with the candidates who lean towards liberalism when they support abortion and homosexuality or those who do?

How does this work with God's word on moral issues?
OR, is it not really a promotion of liberalism to vote for a democrat?

[HypnoToad]

I'm sure they do understand they are promoting liberalism.

But, as liberal Christians, they interpret Scripture so as to not see anything wrong with liberal views.

[Nadiine]

I'm sure they do understand they are promoting liberalism.

But, as liberal Christians, they interpret Scripture so as to not see anything wrong with liberal views.
That was what my question aimed at, so are all Christians who vote democrat, all liberal?

[Zecryphon]

I have a question that nags at me as far as democratic Christians....
When they vote for democrats, do they actually not realize that it's a promotion of liberalism with the candidates who lean towards liberalism when they support abortion and homosexuality or those who do?

How does this work with God's word on moral issues?
OR, is it not really a promotion of liberalism to vote for a democrat?
I think when you get right down to it, it depends upon the candidate. Take John McCain, he's running as a Republican, but when you look at what he actually believes, he's not a true representative of the Republican party. He's just the one candidate the voting Republicans of today think best represents their party's ideals and that's a sad statement indeed.

I can't remember who it was that said this, but one Republican suggested that all Republicans not vote at all in the upcoming election, this will ensure a Democrat gets the White House and then Republicans will have four years to figure out who is the true successor to Ronald Reagan. Good luck with that. There'll never be another Reagan.

[Zecryphon]

That was what my question aimed at, so are all Christians who vote democrat, all liberal?
I don't think they are. There's gotta be a lot more people like Rudy Giulliani in the American voting public. He's a Republican Liberal. Try reconcilling those two without getting a headache.

I think a lot of people are probably gonna vote Democrat just to get a different party in control for a while. We've had 8 years of Bush and can we say we're really better off for it? At this point, a Democrat can't do much worse. The value of the US dollar is trashed, we've got more government agencies than ever before and our national debt is sky high. So what's he really done? Republicans want less government, not more.

[woman.at.the.well]

I have a question that nags at me as far as democratic Christians....
When they vote for democrats, do they actually not realize that it's a promotion of liberalism with the candidates who lean towards liberalism when they support abortion and homosexuality or those who do?

How does this work with God's word on moral issues?
OR, is it not really a promotion of liberalism to vote for a democrat?

IMHO-I think if half of them read the bible on a consistent basis - they would change their tune in a NY second. I think most of them sway lib/dem because they are probably doing things they do not want to be held accountable for - much like atheists, etc who just don't want to be told what to do who generally vote democrat/liberal (the two are one in the same now). It's a sign of immaturity to me and an unwillingness to yield to God's ways. Most of them (liberal dems) just follow along with the people around them (as I use to do), who are more than likely of the world (as adverse to of God's kingdom) and who watch CNN on a regular basis. I just can't reason any other way that ANY Christian could refer to themselves as a democrat for starters; and a liberal democrat even further. That is the biggest oxymoron of our time.

[Nadiine]

IMHO-I think if half of them read the bible on a consistent basis - they would change their tune in a NY second. I think most of them sway lib/dem because they are probably doing things they do not want to be held accountable for - much like atheists, etc who just don't want to be told what to do who generally vote democrat/liberal (the two are one in the same now). It's a sign of immaturity to me and an unwillingness to yield to God's ways. Most of them (liberal dems) just follow along with the people around them (as I use to do), who are more than likely of the world (as adverse to of God's kingdom) and who watch CNN on a regular basis. I just can't reason any other way that ANY Christian could refer to themselves as a democrat for starters; and a liberal democrat even further. That is the biggest oxymoron of our time.
See, this is the way I basically view it all too. But what about the more conservative democrats?
The ones that are more like the old Kennedy, or Lieberman etc?

The problem for me is that even if they're that way themselves, the democratic party itself has shifted to liberalism in many ways and that's who gets into office more and more thru those channels and which promote immorality of all kinds which IS directly against God's standards.

[Zecryphon]

I think sopme Christians who vote Democrat do so, because Democrats are viewed as having the best social policies. They run on a platform of social reform every single time out. Nothing ever really changes but that's beside the point. Christians are very big into helping the sick, the poor, the hungry, the needy. So a Christian who sees social outreach as the point of the gospel and a lot of Christians do, particularly liberal Christians, like that guy who runs Sojourners, Brian McLaren and Tony Jones, voting democrat make sense for them.

Plus a lot of people will vote for a Democrat in this election because they identify with them in a faith-based realm. It seems all the candidates have made their faith a part of their campaign in this election. Who knew Hillary was a supposed Methodist? I didn't.

[Nadiine]

I think sopme Christians who vote Democrat do so, because Democrats are viewed as having the best social policies. They run on a platform of social reform every single time out. Nothing ever really changes but that's beside the point. Christians are very big into helping the sick, the poor, the hungry, the needy. So a Christian who sees social outreach as the point of the gospel and a lot of Christians do, particularly liberal Christians, like that guy who runs Sojourners, Brian McLaren and Tony Jones, voting democrat make sense for them.

Plus a lot of people will vote for a Democrat in this election because they identify with them in a faith-based realm. It seems all the candidates have made their faith a part of their campaign in this election. Who knew Hillary was a supposed Methodist? I didn't.
Hmm, I thought "Hillary" was the name of a new denomination?
heh

[Zecryphon]

Nadiine,

the conservative party doesn't have clean hands when it comes to upholding the Biblical morality they all claim to hold to. How many of the conservative Christian candidates are still on their first wife? None. Mitt Romney isn't a Christian, so he's out, but he still is married to his first wife. So this idea that conservatives automatically promote Godly Biblical living isn't really grounded in reality. How many candidates do you think would leave the office of President if an issue came before them that should present a crisis of faith? I don't think any of them would. Let's be honest here, faith in the political arena is nothing more than a way to get votes. Politicians are the biggest whores around. Give em what they want and they'll be anything you want them to be.

[Zecryphon]

No, no, no. That's Oprah-anity. I think her followers are called Oprahans, which is similar to orphan. LOL What would Hillary's minions be called? Hillarians? Too close to hillarious. LOL Then they would belong to the religion of Hillarity. That can't be good. LOL

[woman.at.the.well]

See, this is the way I basically view it all too. But what about the more conservative democrats?
The ones that are more like the old Kennedy, or Lieberman etc?

The problem for me is that even if they're that way themselves, the democratic party itself has shifted to liberalism in many ways and that's who gets into office more and more thru those channels and which promote immorality of all kinds which IS directly against God's standards.

and that is exactly what it comes down to nadiine. which party is the most conservative and even though the republican party is not perfect itself (especially now) . . . it's the best we got in this predominantly two party system. i can not in good moral conscience vote democrat either way you slice it and dice it.

[Artificial Intelligence]

I have a question that nags at me as far as democratic Christians....
When they vote for democrats, do they actually not realize that it's a promotion of liberalism with the candidates who lean towards liberalism when they support abortion and homosexuality or those who do?

How does this work with God's word on moral issues?
OR, is it not really a promotion of liberalism to vote for a democrat?


Well, in the political field, I consider myself Ultra-Conservative. It’s beyond a straight political position of course, where as I look to God for the example as how we should conduct government. I see this as the idea that the founding fathers of this nation had in mind.

The thing is, between main-line liberal or conservative camps, I see little or no difference between the two. They basically say the same things or at least do the same things on a whole. Even among the three possibilities for the next president between the two parties in the spotlight, all three endorse gay marriage. None of them will do squat about abortion, to end it. All of them speak of the bible but do not conduct their lives in a way that reflects what the bible teaches nor gives glory to God. Bush has this problem too (and his father), and so did Clinton, and even Reagan had serious problems… as well as did Carter. Heh ok so the past century produced a deterioration of morals and ethics within the office of president, but that is simply a reflection of the heart of this nation and what they wish to vote for, this nation that is suppose to be a majority of Christians. I think not…

[Nadiine]

Well, in the political field, I consider myself Ultra-Conservative. It’s beyond a straight political position of course, where as I look to God for the example as how we should conduct government. I see this as the idea that the founding fathers of this nation had in mind.

The thing is, between main-line liberal or conservative camps, I see little or no difference between the two. They basically say the same things or at least do the same things on a whole. Even among the three possibilities for the next president between the two parties in the spotlight, all three endorse gay marriage. None of them will do squat about abortion, to end it. All of them speak of the bible but do not conduct their lives in a way that reflects what the bible teaches nor gives glory to God. Bush has this problem too (and his father), and so did Clinton, and even Reagan had serious problems… as well as did Carter. Heh ok so the past century produced a deterioration of morals and ethics within the office of president, but that is simply a reflection of the heart of this nation and what they wish to vote for, this nation that is suppose to be a majority of Christians. I think not…
I understand what you're saying, but the conservatives are not WORKING TO PROMOTE the abortion or gay initiatives, and would not sign them into law - that's my point here.

It's one thing not to be able to do anything about something, its' another thing entirely to promote and support it, and if it hit your desk, sign it into law or vote FOR it.
These are what I'm mainly driving at. Does that hold merit as a conservative?

[woman.at.the.well]

Well, in the political field, I consider myself Ultra-Conservative. It’s beyond a straight political position of course, where as I look to God for the example as how we should conduct government. I see this as the idea that the founding fathers of this nation had in mind.

The thing is, between main-line liberal or conservative camps, I see little or no difference between the two. They basically say the same things or at least do the same things on a whole. Even among the three possibilities for the next president between the two parties in the spotlight, all three endorse gay marriage. None of them will do squat about abortion, to end it. All of them speak of the bible but do not conduct their lives in a way that reflects what the bible teaches nor gives glory to God. Bush has this problem too (and his father), and so did Clinton, and even Reagan had serious problems… as well as did Carter. Heh ok so the past century produced a deterioration of morals and ethics within the office of president, but that is simply a reflection of the heart of this nation and what they wish to vote for, this nation that is suppose to be a majority of Christians. I think not…

I couldn't agree more with you. Although I disagree on the Reagen part - as he was the best we've had in a long time as far as getting us pointed in the right direction. I think he tried really hard, even though he fell short like all of us do, to get this nation back on course. Mostly because of what he saw happening in Hollywood and the media in general.

As for our "choices" now, that's a joke. NONE of them comes anywhere close to resembling a conservative-including McCain. I guess what it comes down to now is, which liberal is less liberal (if that makes sense). All I know is, I could NEVER vote for the democratic platform. So that's what the bottom line is for me now.

I understand what you're saying, but the conservatives are not WORKING TO PROMOTE the abortion or gay initiatives, and would not sign them into law - that's my point here.

It's one thing not to be able to do anything about something, its' another thing entirely to promote and support it, and if it hit your desk, sign it into law or vote FOR it.
These are what I'm mainly driving at. Does that hold merit as a conservative?

It does seem as though the ball has been dropped in these two regards (abortion and gay "rights") Nadiine. Our conservative family values in general have been getting steamrolled because we're so busy being politically correct and worried about hurting people's feelings . . . nothing gets done anymore.

[Nadiine]

I couldn't agree more with you. Although I disagree on the Reagen part - as he was the best we've had in a long time as far as getting us pointed in the right direction. I think he tried really hard, even though he fell short like all of us do, to get this nation back on course. Mostly because of what he saw happening in Hollywood and the media in general.

As for our "choices" now, that's a joke. NONE of them comes anywhere close to resembling a conservative-including McCain. I guess what it comes down to now is, which liberal is less liberal (if that makes sense). All I know is, I could NEVER vote for the democratic platform. So that's what the bottom line is for me now.



It does seem as though the ball has been dropped in these two regards (abortion and gay "rights") Nadiine. Our conservative family values in general have been getting steamrolled because we're so busy being politically correct and worried about hurting people's feelings . . . nothing gets done anymore.
Sadly, they think it's the only way they will be elected anymore.
The majority SEEMS to favor being central than conservative, so that's where they try to flock to get their votes to stay in office.

We have to remember that as public majority shifts, they can get less and less accomplished until it swings back towards conservatism.
That's just 1 aspect of this, altho I do see your points and acknowledge them. I just think there's more going on at the sources with public opinion ruling the day.

[woman.at.the.well]

Sadly, they think it's the only way they will be elected anymore.
The majority SEEMS to favor being central than conservative, so that's where they try to flock to get their votes to stay in office.

We have to remember that as public majority shifts, they can get less and less accomplished until it swings back towards conservatism.
That's just 1 aspect of this, altho I do see your points and acknowledge them. I just think there's more going on at the sources with public opinion ruling the day.

you are spot on nadiine. there is ALOT more going on under the surface than most americans know. being p.c. is just the tip of the iceburg. there is so much more that the msm is not "reporting."

[FundamentalistJohn]

I don't like any of them. I dislike Hillary less than I dislike McCain or Obama so she may get my vote if she wins the nomination. But I would be very reluctant to do so. I don't doubt that many who vote Democrat vote their consciences and I know many who would be considered socially liberal who I believe to be devout Christians. I guess to some different aspects of Christianity are more important than others. I don't believe that any administration is ever going to rid our country of abortion on demand and I do have to admit that I am concerned about health-care and other issues more than I am concerned about border control etc. We unfortunately have to make unpleasant decisions every election it seems. I have voted since Reagan was in office and I haven't been particularly excited about any presidential election since.

Bottom line is that for many liberals the choice is no easier than it is for those of us who consider ourselves conservative. I hope I added something useful in all of this.

FJ

[Cabal]

I have a question that nags at me as far as democratic Christians....
When they vote for democrats, do they actually not realize that it's a promotion of liberalism with the candidates who lean towards liberalism when they support abortion and homosexuality or those who do?

How does this work with God's word on moral issues?
OR, is it not really a promotion of liberalism to vote for a democrat?

When republican Christians vote republican, do they actually not realise that it's a promotion of warmongering and isolationism with the candidates who lean towards the above when they support illegal wars and unfair trade schemes or those who do?

It's an equally valid question, just substitute in a different party name and a different set of evils.

[Simon_Templar]

When republican Christians vote republican, do they actually not realise that it's a promotion of warmongering and isolationism with the candidates who lean towards the above when they support illegal wars and unfair trade schemes or those who do?

It's an equally valid question, just substitute in a different party name and a different set of evils.
except for the fact that your set of evils are based on a false charicature presented by liberal media, where as hers is based pretty much on the democratic party platform.

If you'd care to look at the foreign policy record of the US, you'd find that the democrat presidents have been just as quick as the repuplicans to involve us in dubious foreign conflicts.

I also would like to hear you explain exactly how a person can be warmongering and at the same time isolationist...
Does a warmongering isolationist only advocate civil wars?

Anyway, on the isolationist charge, you'll find that republican presidents have dolled out foreign aid, and involved us in as many foreign alliances and aids as democrat ones have.

Also, in the issue of trade, you'll find that our trade agreements have pretty much been bipartisan driven affairs.

So... the difference is that democratic party policy pretty much universally do (and proudly trumpet the fact that they do) support abortion and homosexuality

On the other hand if you look at republican and democrat track records on foreign policy and trade, they are pretty much indestinguishable.

So the image presented that republicans are more warmongering and isolationist is a load of crap that doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

but other than that.. yea its a valid question ;)

[Cabal]

except for the fact that your set of evils are based on a false charicature presented by liberal media, where as hers is based pretty much on the democratic party platform.

To say that just abortion and homosexuality "are pretty much" the democratic party platfrom is also a false caricature. Although I wasn't trying to be too precise on the specific evils - just to highlight that there are two points of view on this issue - the republican party sure has a hell of a lot to answer for.

I also would like to hear you explain exactly how a person can be warmongering and at the same time isolationist...
Does a warmongering isolationist only advocate civil wars?

No, just ignores the international community on the important ones.

[Nadiine]

I'd also add a sidenote to Simon's post, alot of republicans that I know don't even want our republican presidents to be doling out so much foreign aid - it's a little upsetting to some & maybe many.

Namely when America get's trashed & bashed when we give so much to help others. If they hate us, then see how great life would be without any of our aid.

that's how I view that issue to some degree.

[Nadiine]

To say that just abortion and homosexuality "are pretty much" the democratic party platfrom is also a false caricature. Although I wasn't trying to be too precise on the specific evils - just to highlight that there are two points of view on this issue - the republican party sure has a hell of a lot to answer for.
Is it really a false caricature? I don't think it is, just watch who screams loudest if anything gets near pro life... or if you dare try to get petitions against homosexual marriage. It's democrats. I don't understand how it's false Cabal?
It may not be "the platform" - but it's a mainstay of the whole party it seems.

(not being combative either - just calling this how I see it at least by our vantage points here in the USA.
:)

[Cabal]

Is it really a false caricature? I don't think it is, just watch who screams loudest if anything gets near pro life... or if you dare try to get petitions against homosexual marriage. It's democrats. I don't understand how it's false Cabal?
It may not be "the platform" - but it's a mainstay of the whole party it seems.

(not being combative either - just calling this how I see it at least by our vantage points here in the USA.
:)

Lol, I won't deny that the Democrats do go on about it a lot - I was just thinking more about what we hear over this side of the pond, which usually doesn't mention abortion/homosexuality etc, more the foreign policy related stuff. And Medicare. We hear A LOT about Medicare for some reason....

I just don't think it's fair or accurate to sum them up entirely by those two issues...also, the current administration hasn't exactly clamped down on abortion or gay rights stuff etc.... (maybe I'm wrong, like I said, I wouldn't hear about it so much over here).

I don't know what the best solution to it is - don't the individual states have some control over what flies and what doesn't in their own states, like on abortion clinics, gay marriage etc?

Anyway, just wanted to open the debate up a little :)

[Simon_Templar]

Lol, I won't deny that the Democrats do go on about it a lot - I was just thinking more about what we hear over this side of the pond, which usually doesn't mention abortion/homosexuality etc, more the foreign policy related stuff. And Medicare. We hear A LOT about Medicare for some reason....

I just don't think it's fair or accurate to sum them up entirely by those two issues...also, the current administration hasn't exactly clamped down on abortion or gay rights stuff etc.... (maybe I'm wrong, like I said, I wouldn't hear about it so much over here).

I don't know what the best solution to it is - don't the individual states have some control over what flies and what doesn't in their own states, like on abortion clinics, gay marriage etc?

Anyway, just wanted to open the debate up a little :)
Reality is that no administration will or even can do much regarding abortion and homosexuality.

Pretty much the only thing the president can do about things like that is appoint supreme court justices that are conservative. Which is important and does have a long term impact on the country.

ultimately, the focus many people have on politics is to all consuming. Politics is important, and I think we have political duties, but politics won't save us, at best political action might stem the slide a bit. In the end though, its just a matter of staving off the inevitable.

The only thing that will really change our course is to change the people.

[Simon_Templar]

Lol, I won't deny that the Democrats do go on about it a lot - I was just thinking more about what we hear over this side of the pond, which usually doesn't mention abortion/homosexuality etc, more the foreign policy related stuff. And Medicare. We hear A LOT about Medicare for some reason....

I just don't think it's fair or accurate to sum them up entirely by those two issues...also, the current administration hasn't exactly clamped down on abortion or gay rights stuff etc.... (maybe I'm wrong, like I said, I wouldn't hear about it so much over here).

I don't know what the best solution to it is - don't the individual states have some control over what flies and what doesn't in their own states, like on abortion clinics, gay marriage etc?

Anyway, just wanted to open the debate up a little :)
Also, I'd say you're right on this point, a lot of Christians assume that Rep. = Christian which is obviously not the case.

I'm not a great party man, but I do think that as bad as the Rep's are sometimes, the Dem's are worse :)

[Artificial Intelligence]

I have a question that nags at me as far as Republican Christians....
When they vote for Republicans, do they actually not realize that it's a promotion of liberalism with the candidates who lean towards liberalism when they support abortion and homosexuality or those who do?

How does this work with God's word on moral issues?
OR, is it not really a promotion of liberalism to vote for a REpublican?

:sorry:

[Nadiine]

Lol, I won't deny that the Democrats do go on about it a lot - I was just thinking more about what we hear over this side of the pond, which usually doesn't mention abortion/homosexuality etc, more the foreign policy related stuff. And Medicare. We hear A LOT about Medicare for some reason....

I just don't think it's fair or accurate to sum them up entirely by those two issues...also, the current administration hasn't exactly clamped down on abortion or gay rights stuff etc.... (maybe I'm wrong, like I said, I wouldn't hear about it so much over here).

I don't know what the best solution to it is - don't the individual states have some control over what flies and what doesn't in their own states, like on abortion clinics, gay marriage etc?

Anyway, just wanted to open the debate up a little :)
I don't sum them up just by 2 issues, but those seem to be the most important to them as a party (and I'm not just referring to the politicians, but the people who are pushing to keep these 2 moral issues "free" to practice legally)

What did the hippies of the 60's push? That's basically what your democratic liberals are for today. Take religion out of all govt. Remove prayer from school, hand out condoms to school kids without parental permission, schools don't tell parents about daughter's abortions, tax the "rich" and give it over to the poor (and lazy who refuse to work and the illegals they want to give amnesty & aid to on your tax dollar) - they promote socialism and penalize the hard working for their success.
Robin Hood - take it from the rich & hand it out to the poor, even if I were poor I would know that's wrong.
Universal health care... same ideology. (instead of creating $ caps & other protective laws to keep the amounts at a managable rate along with adding more law enforcement to investigate & prosecute medical fraud that costs taxpayers)..... the lists go on

They also don't appoint conservative court judges either, they promote the liberal ones who make laws for the entire country liberal. Morally, I see a pattern with the party that is not conservative at all.

The democratic party is NOT the old Kennedy party anymore, it's turned more liberal and chronically elects liberals into office.
That is what baffles me as to Christians voting democrat anymore, it's not the former democratic party who's being elected by them. Joseph Leiberman was ignored in the last elections, Leiberman is closest to the old Kennedy democrats... they opted for the liberal democrats as a party.

This also includes the judges they appoint once in office. They appoint liberal judges, not conservative.
We have case after case in the USA of civil judges not punishing convicted criminals - watch Bill OReilly's show, he has lists of them. This is the general mindset and I find it befitting of Romans 1:18-32

This is why I raise the questions I do for Christians who support this system. I can't and won't.

[Nadiine]

Also, I'd say you're right on this point, a lot of Christians assume that Rep. = Christian which is obviously not the case.

I'm not a great party man, but I do think that as bad as the Rep's are sometimes, the Dem's are worse :)
It's a false assumption for sure but there is a huge [bitter] divide btwn the 2 parties. There aren't many things we see eye to eye on - civilly or morally (the more they lean towards liberalism).

[IamRedeemed]

That's true.

It's a false assumption for sure but there is a huge [bitter] divide btwn the 2 parties. There aren't many things we see eye to eye on - civilly or morally (the more they lean towards liberalism).

[prophecystudent]

After some deliberation I am posting an answer.

First let me say that abortion and gay rights do not define a conservative. Granted, they are two important aspects but there are many more that must be considered before one should be labelled as conservative.

How about all the social and ethical standards? should they not be followed? Stealing, lying, murder, drug abuse, etc etc are aspects that must be considered.

Abiding by the laws of the land, not just ignoring them because you feel they somehow limit your actions. Of course they limit one's actions, that is what laws are for. Otherwise we have anarchy with every person doing exactly what they want at the moment whether it harms someone else or not.

25 or 30 years ago our culture had societal norms that were good for our country and our culture. Those norms have been largely eliminated, to the detriment of our country and culture.

There are social conservatives and fiscal conservatives, at least in our political arena. In my view a true conservative must be conservative in both areas.

I do not believe that conservatism is the foundation of either political party, nor is it the hallmark of either.

Conservatism, in my view, is based on your personal views about the issues of the day. A true conservative is one that adheres to the biblical principles designed for us by God. That covers charity for the widows and children, how we deal with one another in our daily lives and relationships. The further we depart from bibilcal guidelines the further down the tube our culture goes.

Fred

[IamRedeemed]

That's it in a nutshell. :thumbsup:
Even if I wasn't a Republican and didn't want to change parties,
I would still have to vote my conscience and it wouldn't be democratic!


and that is exactly what it comes down to nadiine. which party is the most conservative and even though the republican party is not perfect itself (especially now) . . . it's the best we got in this predominantly two party system. i can not in good moral conscience vote democrat either way you slice it and dice it.

[IamRedeemed]

I believe how a person leans regarding those two issues pretty much does sum up their moral convictions. Atheists will agree it is wrong to steal, lie, murder, and yet most I have spoken to online, see nothing wrong with abortion or gay parades, so I do not really agree with you that those things are the "issues" of today, as it seems all are pretty much in agreement with whether or not stealing is wrong.

I agree with you that true conservatives must be conservative in both areas. Biblically speaking I do not think that someone can hold Biblical views without being what the world would label as "conservative".

Personally I do not believe as Christians, we should define ourselves as "conservative or liberal", I think the ownership of the title of Christian, should automatically mean that people should expect that we stand on Biblical principles and precepts.

I think if that isn't the case, then we need to change our ways, or change our name.

Steps down off soap box

http://www.freepowerboards.com/sotc/users/6333/smilies/favorites59.gif

After some deliberation I am posting an answer.

First let me say that abortion and gay rights do not define a conservative. Granted, they are two important aspects but there are many more that must be considered before one should be labelled as conservative.

How about all the social and ethical standards? should they not be followed? Stealing, lying, murder, drug abuse, etc etc are aspects that must be considered.

Abiding by the laws of the land, not just ignoring them because you feel they somehow limit your actions. Of course they limit one's actions, that is what laws are for. Otherwise we have anarchy with every person doing exactly what they want at the moment whether it harms someone else or not.

25 or 30 years ago our culture had societal norms that were good for our country and our culture. Those norms have been largely eliminated, to the detriment of our country and culture.

There are social conservatives and fiscal conservatives, at least in our political arena. In my view a true conservative must be conservative in both areas.

I do not believe that conservatism is the foundation of either political party, nor is it the hallmark of either.

Conservatism, in my view, is based on your personal views about the issues of the day. A true conservative is one that adheres to the biblical principles designed for us by God. That covers charity for the widows and children, how we deal with one another in our daily lives and relationships. The further we depart from bibilcal guidelines the further down the tube our culture goes.

Fred