Temperance of Alcohol

[Nadiine]

bumped post above
the time is way off :/

[Artificial Intelligence]

Greetings, all!


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Temperance is, unfortunately, one of those words that has changed its meaning. It now usually means teetotalism… [In the past,] temperance referred not specially to drink, but to all pleasures; and it meant not abstaining, but going the right length and no further. It is a mistake to think that Christians ought all to be teetotalers; Mohammedanism, not Christianity, is the teetotal religion.

Of course it may be the duty of a particular Christian, or of any Christian, at a particular time, to abstain from strong drink, either because he is the sort of man who cannot drink at all without drinking too much, or because he is with people who are inclined to drunkenness and must not encourage them by drinking himself. But the whole point is that he is abstaining, for a good reason, from something which he does not condemn and which he likes to see other people enjoying. One of the marks of a certain type of bad man is that he cannot give up a thing himself without wanting every one else to give it up. That is not the Christian way. An individual Christian may see fit to give up all sorts of things for special reasons—marriage, or meat, or beer, or the cinema; but the moment he starts saying the things are bad in themselves, or looking down his nose at other people who use them, he has taken the wrong turning.

—C.S. Lewis. Mere Christianity, p. 78-79

Men can go wrong with wine and women. Shall we prohibit and abolish women? — Martin Luther

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Genesis 14:18 Melchizedek offering wine to Abram
Nehemiah 2:1 refers to the king drinking wine (Nehemiah was required to taste it first to make sure it was not poisoned)
Esther 5:6; 7:1-2 speaks of wine that Esther (the godly Jewess) drank with the king
Job 1:13 refers to righteous Job’s family drinking wine
Daniel 10:3 drinking wine as a blessing after fasting
1 Tim 5:23 Paul tells Timothy to drink some wine for his stomach’s sake
Deut 14:26 implies that it is a good thing to drink wine and strong drink to the Lord
Psalm 4:7 compares joy in the Lord to the abundance of wine
Psalm 104:14-15 credits God as the creator of wine that “makes a man’s heart glad”
Prov 3:10 blessings of abundant stores of wine
Isa 25:6 The Lord prepares a banquet with “well-aged wines... and fine, well-aged wines” for his people
And Matthew 11:19 Implies that Jesus drank alcohol

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What say ye?

[Nadiine]

I'm not sure what you're asking here... but it seems to be that the things in question here are what we consider "liberties in Christ".
Not everything one indulges in is sinful for another Christian. If we stumble in alcohol and give it up, then obviously we shouldn't take issue with those who still continue to moderately drink.

Most of the reasons I end up quitting a liberty is more that it's unhealthy physically or it somehow harms me on a non spiritual level than a spiritual one.
But for any reasons we give something up, it's for us to give up personally for our own reasons and not force those onto others who may not wrestle with them.

[Nadiine]

.

[Zecryphon]

Greetings, all!


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Temperance is, unfortunately, one of those words that has changed its meaning. It now usually means teetotalism… [In the past,] temperance referred not specially to drink, but to all pleasures; and it meant not abstaining, but going the right length and no further. It is a mistake to think that Christians ought all to be teetotalers; Mohammedanism, not Christianity, is the teetotal religion.

Of course it may be the duty of a particular Christian, or of any Christian, at a particular time, to abstain from strong drink, either because he is the sort of man who cannot drink at all without drinking too much, or because he is with people who are inclined to drunkenness and must not encourage them by drinking himself. But the whole point is that he is abstaining, for a good reason, from something which he does not condemn and which he likes to see other people enjoying. One of the marks of a certain type of bad man is that he cannot give up a thing himself without wanting every one else to give it up. That is not the Christian way. An individual Christian may see fit to give up all sorts of things for special reasons—marriage, or meat, or beer, or the cinema; but the moment he starts saying the things are bad in themselves, or looking down his nose at other people who use them, he has taken the wrong turning.

—C.S. Lewis. Mere Christianity, p. 78-79

Men can go wrong with wine and women. Shall we prohibit and abolish women? — Martin Luther

-------------------------

Genesis 14:18 Melchizedek offering wine to Abram
Nehemiah 2:1 refers to the king drinking wine (Nehemiah was required to taste it first to make sure it was not poisoned)
Esther 5:6; 7:1-2 speaks of wine that Esther (the godly Jewess) drank with the king
Job 1:13 refers to righteous Job’s family drinking wine
Daniel 10:3 drinking wine as a blessing after fasting
1 Tim 5:23 Paul tells Timothy to drink some wine for his stomach’s sake
Deut 14:26 implies that it is a good thing to drink wine and strong drink to the Lord
Psalm 4:7 compares joy in the Lord to the abundance of wine
Psalm 104:14-15 credits God as the creator of wine that “makes a man’s heart glad”
Prov 3:10 blessings of abundant stores of wine
Isa 25:6 The Lord prepares a banquet with “well-aged wines... and fine, well-aged wines” for his people
And Matthew 11:19 Implies that Jesus drank alcohol

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What say ye?
I say "ye needs to fill my flagon full of wine and make it snappy!" ^_^

[Artificial Intelligence]

I'm not sure what you're asking here...


Mmm well not really a question going on there, it’s a debate position. We are not going to debate on debating, are we? :D

Just to say from my position, I rarely drink. Sometimes I drink more than other times of the year, but I just mainly drink because I like how it tastes… well some of it at least, where as others I cant stand one bit. Actually, evenings like new years eve, I’m quite happy with a giant bowl of ice cream, hehe can’t stay away from sweets. But as far as alcohol goes, I take the stance that it can be ok, but not inherently evil as some claim it to be. Yes, the wine Jesus made was just like the wine we have today, not simply grape juice. However there is good reason to stay away from alcohol for some, I mean for some it is too hard to control, like me and sweets :holy:

[Nadiine]

Mmm well not really a question going on there, it’s a debate position. We are not going to debate on debating, are we? :D

Just to say from my position, I rarely drink. Sometimes I drink more than other times of the year, but I just mainly drink because I like how it tastes… well some of it at least, where as others I cant stand one bit. Actually, evenings like new years eve, I’m quite happy with a giant bowl of ice cream, hehe can’t stay away from sweets. But as far as alcohol goes, I take the stance that it can be ok, but not inherently evil as some claim it to be. Yes, the wine Jesus made was just like the wine we have today, not simply grape juice. However there is good reason to stay away from alcohol for some, I mean for some it is too hard to control, like me and sweets :holy:
I think that's how all the liberties we have work - not just drinking.

There's a long list of them that go along with moderate drinking, things not directly spelled out are judgment calls we have to make for ourselves without imposing our personal reasons and views onto others.

And lets not forget that the person who uses their liberties "liberally", also shouldn't be attacking or belittling those who do not agree with many liberties. It's very easy for people who drink, smoke or whatever to be criticizing those who won't.
This is a 2 way street with criticizing or judging on liberties.

[JAS4Yeshua]

Personally, I don't drink, but my view of drinking is like that of the OP. It isn't about abstaining, but about temperance. My reasons for not drinking is simply because I don't have the desire or inclination to do so (I prefer Dr. Pepper). Also, the fact that, due to health reasons, my wife can't drink, makes it more of a reason not to have alcohol in our house.