Am I to understand this right?

[visionary]

Shin ( dot on right arm)

Sin ( dot on left arm)

Was taking my 101 class when a thought occurred to me.

Was not Yeshua on the right hand of God, the Father and Lucifer on the left in the beginning before sin?

Yeshua was commander of all of creation.
Lucifer was commander of all the angelic host.

[ShirChadash]

I have heard that before... but strangely, seems to me I heard it from a Mormon source LOL! Interested to see the answers you get,
~Z~

[elijahlexis]

lucifer was never God----not the Father , the Son , or the Holy spirit
and there is no indication that he was made in God's image
and Lucifer will never be Lord of Lords and King of Kings
He will bow down in the end
where he stood, yes i believe you are right that he held a prominent place among the heavenlies,(excvluding Father,Son , or Spirit)
i believe he had (?) organ pipes (?) or somethingg of that nature as part of his structure (body) and i believe he did command a host of angels, though not all
and i believe it was his job to praise God
not rise above God as he supposed he could do
pride-----------------
and he was already in heaven
mind boggling that he chose anything but eternity with God
but no he never was , is not , and will never be , GOD
simple

[ShirChadash]

"Knowing" visionary the little I do, I'd say there's no chance that the opening postwas meant to portray ha satan as G-d, whatsoever. :)

[muffler dragon]

Shin ( dot on right arm)

Sin ( dot on left arm)

Was taking my 101 class when a thought occurred to me.

Was not Yeshua on the right hand of God, the Father and Lucifer on the left in the beginning before sin?

Yeshua was commander of all of creation.
Lucifer was commander of all the angelic host.
Yeshua v. Lucifer:

Yeshua is the only begotten.
Lucifer was only in charge of one third of the angelic host.

Some say that he was in charge of praise, but as far as sources, I have none.

I wouldn't put the two on the same level as far as one being on the left and one on the right of HaShem.

More opinion than anything, sorry.

Nathan

[visionary]

Lucifer had said, "I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; . . . I will be like the Most High." Isa. 14:13, 14. But Christ, "being in the form of God, counted it not a thing to be grasped to be on an equality with God, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men." Phil. 2:6, 7

We know there is a definite difference in character between the two. I never wanted to have anyone think that Lucifer was "being in the form of God". Thank you Zamirah for your vote of confidence. You are absolutely right.

Evil originated with Lucifer, who rebelled against the government of God. Before his fall he was a covering cherub, distinguished by his excellence. Probably replaced by Gabrael or Michael. Had Lucifer really desired to be like the Most High, he would never have deserted his appointed place in heaven; for the spirit of the Most High is manifested in unselfish ministry. Lucifer desired God's power, but not His character.

Among the inhabitants of heaven, Satan, next to Christ, was at one time probably one of the most honored of God. Before his fall, Lucifer, "son of the morning," was first like the name " morning star implies. As one the covering cherubims, he was once holy and undefiled. He stood in the presence of the great Creator, and those Holy beams of Glory that cover the eternal God rested upon him. How close can one get to God and miss the love, patience, tolerance, longsuffering, and not wanting that anyone should perish benevolence of God's character?

Lucifer was cast out of heaven because he was fully determined to have a position above that of Christ. He could not obtain what he coveted, and there was war in heaven, and he was cast out.

[Sephania]

He was a guard of the place of holiness. Look at what the mercy seat is covered by. Two cherubs. He was in charge of the holy mountain, he lead all the host in worship and praise of the L-RD until he coveted that for himself. When he did he could only convince a third of the angels to rebell with him.

Shin is the letter used on a mezuzah to stand for Shaddai - Almighty, as well as Shalom, and Shikinah, His Glory. The dot is on the right. I read somewhere that Jerusalem is set on mountains divided by valleys and if viewed from above the eart you can see the Shin. As if G-d himself has placed his mark on this land where he said he would place His Holy name. If I remember correctly this would be the right side or east side of Jerusalem where the mount of Olives is, the garden of gethsemane and where the beautiful gate is as well as the Temple doors face this side . On the west side or opposite arm of Jerusalem ( the left dot) is Golgotha where our sin was paid for.

I find it ironic that the only access the Jewish people have right now to the holy temple mount is on the west side. It is a very appropriate place for repentance, no?

Is it all a mere coinsedence? :)

[Sephania]

The letter a shin is formed from three letter u vavs. These are depicted as three separate entities that combine in completeness. The verticality of the structure suggests ascension and symmetry. According to the Zohar, the three u vavs infer the three fathers of Israel (Avraham, Isaac (http://www.betemunah.org/Word/LAW/isaac.html), and Yaaqov (http://www.betemunah.org/Word/LAW/israelja.html)). The three vavs of the letter shin signify the three tribes in which the Jewish people are divided, and therefore the three divisions of Jewish souls, being the Israelites, the Levites and the Kohanim.

http://www.betemunah.org/watchman/tefillin.html A greg Killian study.

[Sephania]

Check it out:

http://www.1abba.org/Resources/W45.gif (http://www.1abba.org/Resources/Sheen.gif)The name of G-d, Shaddai, meaning the All-sufficient One, is written with three Hebrew letters­­shin, dalet, yod. These letters form the acronym Shomer Daltot Yisrael meaning Watchman of Israel's gates or Protector of the doors of Israel. Oftentimes, the letter shin alone is used to represent G-d's signature, such as on many of the mezuzot that are placed on doors in obedience to G-d's command of Deuteronomy 6:9. It is said that G-d looks down from heaven and sees His signature, the letter shin, on Jerusalem.



"Unless the L-rd guards the city, the watchman stays awake in vain." (Psalm 127:1b).



http://www.1abba.org/Resources/Godsig46.gif (http://www.1abba.org/Resources/Sheen2.gif)

[muffler dragon]

Lucifer had said, "I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; . . . I will be like the Most High." Isa. 14:13, 14. But Christ, "being in the form of God, counted it not a thing to be grasped to be on an equality with God, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men." Phil. 2:6, 7

We know there is a definite difference in character between the two. I never wanted to have anyone think that Lucifer was "being in the form of God". Thank you Zamirah for your vote of confidence. You are absolutely right.

Evil originated with Lucifer, who rebelled against the government of God. Before his fall he was a covering cherub, distinguished by his excellence. Probably replaced by Gabrael or Michael. Had Lucifer really desired to be like the Most High, he would never have deserted his appointed place in heaven; for the spirit of the Most High is manifested in unselfish ministry. Lucifer desired God's power, but not His character.

Among the inhabitants of heaven, Satan, next to Christ, was at one time probably one of the most honored of God. Before his fall, Lucifer, "son of the morning," was first like the name " morning star implies. As one the covering cherubims, he was once holy and undefiled. He stood in the presence of the great Creator, and those Holy beams of Glory that cover the eternal God rested upon him. How close can one get to God and miss the love, patience, tolerance, longsuffering, and not wanting that anyone should perish benevolence of God's character?

Lucifer was cast out of heaven because he was fully determined to have a position above that of Christ. He could not obtain what he coveted, and there was war in heaven, and he was cast out.
Dear Madame Visionary:

I hope and pray that you did not interpret my post as confrontational. I did not intend it as such.

In peace,

Nathan

[simchat_torah]

Some say that he was in charge of praise, but as far as sources, I have none.
I forget where at the moment, but there is a passage (in the minor prophets I believe?) that states his lungs were made of wind pipes, etc. Basically that he was created as an instrument of sorts. This is the origin behind the 'Lucifer was in charge of worship' idea.

-yafet

[Sephania]

Ezekiel 28
12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.


That part in verse 18 about there being fire in the midst of him is very interesting and it would be fun to explore in another thread.:)

[visionary]

Dear Madame Visionary:

I hope and pray that you did not interpret my post as confrontational. I did not intend it as such.

In peace,

Nathan

I was just reassuring all that Zamirah knows me well. That I never meant to mislead even you to think that. Your post was not confrontational, It was I who was not clear in my post.

Visionary