An answer

[AllForJesus]

hello...
I am a bit confused myself.....
I know a lot about the Oriental orthodox....and i know a lot about the orintal catholic called also Melchite or byzantine....
I do not see any diffrence at all in the Liturgy r the views or anything...
I just know they do easter another time and they have the pope as head of all the fathers...
I would like to know if anyone can help what are the diffrence in the beilf and practice...

Thank you so much....

[Anglian]

Dear AllForJesus,

Let me see if I can help with an answer to what is, in fact, a very complex question.

Before the Council of Chalcedon in 451 A.D. there was one Church; since then there has always been more than one Church with claims to be the one Church. We Oriental Orthodox would hold that that is true of our family of Churches; the Eastern Orthodox do likewise, as do the Roman Catholics; we all use the same set of arguments because we all draw upon the same Fathers.

In the area of the world you live, which is one in which the Faith has had the longest and most beautiful history, the divisions have been many and have left what one might call historic traces marked by the distinctions you mention.

Thus, after Chalcedon there were those Christians who accepted that Council and those who thought it Nestorian and rejected it; the former are the Chalcedonians; the latter the non-Chalcedonians.

The Chalcedonians were known locally in your area and Egypt as the Melkites - literally 'the king's men' to show that they were taking the line backed by the Emperor in Constantinople; that name has stuck to this day. Sometimes they are known as 'Byzantine' - again, referring to another name for the old Imperial capital at Constantinople (Byzantium).

In 1054 the Chalcedonian Church divided, on the surface over the question of the addition of the words 'filioque' to the Creed; the Catholics held that saying that the Spirit proceeded from the Father and the Son' (filioque in Latin) guarded against heresy; the Eastern Orthodox said it was a heresy! On one side were those who we now call Eastern Orthodox; on the other those we now call Roman Catholics. Although most of the East of the old Roman Empire chose to align itself with Constantinople, some did not. In your own country the Maronites stayed with a Roman connection. In the nineteenth century, as missionaries from the west came to what is now called the Middle East, some Melkite Orthodox were 'converted' by them to adopt the Roman Catholic view of the Faith; many of these Churches call themselves 'Byzantine Catholic', to recognise both their origin and also their new orientation.

Thus we have quite a mixture of Churches left by the long and conflicted history of the old Holy Land and its neighbours. In Egypt we have the Coptic Orthodox Church under Pope Shenouda III which is the non-Chalcedonian, Oriental Orthodox Church; but we also have an Eastern Orthodox Church (Chalcedonian, but not Roman), a Catholic Coptic Church (Chalcedonian but not Eastern Orthodox). In your own beautiful and historic land you have many more: Syriac Orthodox (sometime, wrongly called 'Jacobite), which is Oriental Orthodox; Greek Orthodox (Chalcedonian); Byzantine Catholic (Chalcedonian in communion with Rome); Maronite (Chalcedonian Catholics of historical standing whose links with Rome go back to the middle ages); as well as Roman Catholic and Protestant Churches.

If you have not retired in total confusion by now, you'll see some basic differences.

The Oriental Orthodox do not recognise any Ecumenical Councils after Ephesus; from Chalcedon onwards we see them as local councils which may, or may not have some relevance for us; but we are not bound by their teaching. We hold to the Faith of the Apostles as established at Nicaea in 325 A.D. We hold to the ancient liturgies. We are governed, as the ancient Church was, by our bishops. We recognize one common authority - Our Lord Jesus Christ, who speaks to us through his successors - our bishops and patriarchs. We do not regard the Bishop of Rome as having authority over all Christians, nor do we see him as being in any way infallible. If he would renounce these claims and the additions made to the Faith such as the dogmas of Purgatory and the Immaculate Conception, we may yet be able to come back together.

The Eastern Orthodox do accept Chalcedon and the three councils which followed. They too use the ancient liturgies. They too reject the claims of the bishop of Rome and the innovations added to the Faith (as they, and we see it) by the Romans.

The Roman Catholics do accept the authority of Rome (hence the title, which is not, by the way official, it is actually 'The Catholic Church' and accepts the use of the word 'Roman' only as a helpful descriptor) and would hold that they have added nothing to the Faith once received. They argue that the Immaculate Conception and Purgatory, like the authority and infallibility of the Pope, is a development of doctrine.

The Orthodox (of both kinds) allow married priests (but not bishops); the Catholics insist that priests be celibate. In some Byzantine Catholic Churches you can have married priests and the old Orthodox rite.

If I have erred in any way, I have no doubt I shall soon stand corrected. I have done my best to give a straightforward account which is as fair as I can manage to all our Christian brothers and sisters.

How very far we sinners are from being 'one' as He told us we should be.

In peace,

Anglian

[copticorthodoxy]

I do have a question though...in the Oriental orthodox mass after the Holy Words there is a prayer for the Virgin Mary and it says "It is a duty to honor you Oh Mother of God that doesnt have any shame..." (exuse me if they are not the exact words because of the transalion) what does it mean that she has no shame? does it refer to the immaculate conception or?

Mommy is Syriac Orthodox... Dad is Oriental catholic...

Thanks a lot:)

Each Oriental Orthodox Church has it own liturgies , The Oriental Orthodox don't believe in the immaculate conception

Here are the three Liturgies which used in the Coptic Orthodox Church of Alexandria

http://www.copticchurch.net/topics/liturgy/index.html

[AllForJesus]

I do understand that...
But let me reformulated to be sure:)
The Oriental Catholics differ from the Oriental orthodox by the fact that they belive in putagory and immaculate conception and some of the new addition to faith...
and that the first accept the councils of the church after Ephesus the Oriental Orthodox no....Is it right?

I am sure that the Oriental catholics allow married priests and they have common confession like the orthodox do...

Marronite are diffrent....they follow Rome more than the Oriental caholic at least there mass is so much like the latin...This what made me confuse...if the OC and the OO have the same mass:confuse:?!

Is it right that the Oriental catholic is only 350 almsot old?

I do have a question though...in the Oriental orthodox mass after the Holy Words there is a prayer for the Virgin Mary and it says "It is a duty to honor you Oh Mother of God that doesnt have any shame..." (exuse me if they are not the exact words because of the transalion) what does it mean that she has no shame? does it refer to the immaculate conception or?

Mommy is Syriac Orthodox... Dad is Oriental catholic...

Thanks a lot:)

[AllForJesus]

Each Oriental Orthodox Church has it own liturgies , The Oriental Orthodox don't believe in the immaculate conception

Here are the three Liturgies which used in the Coptic Orthodox Church of Alexandria

http://www.copticchurch.net/topics/liturgy/index.html (http://www.copticchurch.net/topics/liturgy/index.html)

Thank you so much:)
I do know it's diffrent form the Copitic... but i am asking between the Greek oriental othodox and the greek oriental catholic....

It's the litrgy of St John(golden mouth -donno if it's said like this in english-)Bishop of Costantinopolis
and St-Baslius Bishop of Cappadocia