eating meat

[Amandine]

"The Noachide Law teaches us that this is rectified by being careful to eat only meat from an animal that is fully dead, and this is by no means always the case in our factory society where slaughterhouses handle meat animals quickly and carelessly, sometimes only stunning them before cutting them up for sale."

A similar statement was also made in the Gospels, so I'm sure many of you try to follow it.

:eek: Does that mean we should try to eat kosher meat at least, just to make sure we're following the commandment? I don't know the first thing about where to find the appropriate food...
-Catherine
(yes, I'm back ;))

[iitb]

Does that mean we should try to eat kosher meat at least, just to make sure we're following the commandment?absolutely (sorry for the short answer; I'm trying to stop staying up until 1 a.m. ;))

I don't know the first thing about where to find the appropriate food...Don't you live in simchat_torah's neck of the woods? Maybe you should talk to him about it.

-Catherine
(yes, I'm back ;))Glad to have you. :)

[Sephania]

.

[simchat_torah]

HEY CATHERINE!!!!

You still in my town, or did you go back home for the summer?

If you're still here, you can buy kosher meat at the University! lol.. crazy eh? The university has a butcher's shop and they sell the meat fairly inexpensive. If you go south on Lincoln, turn right on Kirby and go one block and make the first right (don't remember the name of the street) there's the butcher shop.

Anywho.. they have lamb, beef, etc. all for very good prices and some of the top quality meats you'll find anywhere.

-yafet

[Henaynei]

Now you make me hungry AND envious!!! ;)HEY CATHERINE!!!!

You still in my town, or did you go back home for the summer?

If you're still here, you can buy kosher meat at the University! lol.. crazy eh? The university has a butcher's shop and they sell the meat fairly inexpensive. If you go south on Lincoln, turn right on Kirby and go one block and make the first right (don't remember the name of the street) there's the butcher shop.

Anywho.. they have lamb, beef, etc. all for very good prices and some of the top quality meats you'll find anywhere.

-yafet

[Amandine]

HEY CATHERINE!!!!
You still in my town, or did you go back home for the summer?

Unfortunately, I'm back home for the summer. The closest city to me is probably Springfield if you know of anything there.
And I work at a Taco Bell/KFC for these few months...how kosher are they? :D

Thanks for the resources though! I'll check it all back when I move back in to Campustown.
-Catherine

[simchat_torah]

fyi... for all who don't know...

The University of Illinois has the top Ag. department in the nation... thus they have their own butcher shop, fields and fields of cows, etc.

pretty nice, eh?

*rubs in*

[simchat_torah]

Catherine,

surprisingly, walmart typically carries a few kosher meats. Many companies will go out of their way to get their canned goods and dried food approved for a kosher label as well... knowing that they'd miss out on a large market if they didn't.

[iitb]

The only kosher meat available here is Empire frozen chicken (http://www.empirekosher.com/)that one of the supermarkets carries. You could always look around for that!

Heck, if all else fails, you could order it off the internet ;) : http://www.kosherbutcher.com/ (cheesy music alert!)

[muffler dragon]

I've asked the majority of the supermarkets in my area if they sell kosher meats and I haven't found one yet. I don't know if I want to take the steps of ordering on-line, but it may come down to that.

In the area I live in, there is close to 1,000,000 and only like 3 or 4 synagogues. So the Jewish population is not exactly booming down here to get a kosher butcher. However, I'm thinking about calling one of the synagogues to see if they know of any.

Nathan

[Henaynei]

I'm thinking about calling one of the synagogues to see if they know of any.
Nathan
THAT is a sterling idea!!! http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/15/15_4_102.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001)

[muffler dragon]

THAT is a sterling idea!!! http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/15/15_4_102.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001)
Nothing like a little Henny sarcasm to start hump day off right. :hug:

[Henaynei]

Nothing like a little Henny sarcasm to start hump day off right. :hug:LOL - nothing like a lil "martyr complex" to start your day off right (now THAT *was* sarcasm ;) ) My other comment was sincere :holy: and I was commenting because it was what I had thought of as I was reading your post - and then you went and thought of it yourself! :P :cool: :cool: :P

b'Shalom
Henaynei
"They invented the term "martyr complex" just *for* me!!" ^_^ ^_^

[simchat_torah]

http://www.clevelandjewishnews.com/source/index.inn?loc=detail&main=Goods%20and%20Services&sub=Kosher%20Food

Unger's Kosher Market and Bakery
1831 S. Taylor Rd.
Cleveland Heights, OH 44118
tel.: 216-321-7176
fax: 216-321-0777

Absolutely the lowest prices and the biggest Kosher market in Ohio. Huge selection of wines and champagnes. Finest bakery in town, specializing in custom-designed wedding, bar/bat mitzvah cakes. Discounts to synagogues, other non-profit organizations.


The Living Room
JCC of Cleveland, Mandel Bldg.
26001 S. Woodland Rd.
Beachwood, OH 44122
tel.: 216-831-0700
fax: 216-831-7796
website: www.clevejcc.org (http://www.clevejcc.org/)

A place to meet friends, read and relax, with kosher food and beverages available.


Ruchama's International Cuisine
(JCC-Fireside Restaurant)



Lax and Mandel Kosher Bakery
Open Sun-Fri
14441 Cedar at Green
South Euclid, OH 44121
tel.: 216-382-8877
website: www.laxandmandel.com (http://www.laxandmandel.com/)

2070 S. Taylor Rd.
Cleveland Heights, OH 44118
Open for retail Wed-Fri
tel.: 216-932-6445
fax: 216-932-3354

Stop in our new location at Cedar and Green...one year old and giving a young, modern kick to our 53-year-old business! You'll find the same old-world breads and pastries, plus brand new fancy pastries and groceries. All pastries, cake and party trays for any occasion.




Boris Glatt Kosher Meats
14406 Cedar Road
University Heights, OH 44121
tel.: 216-382-5330
fax: 216-382-3520
website: www.borisglattkoshermeats.com (http://www.borisglattkoshermeats.com/)
contact: Boris Mikhli, Owner

carrying a full line of meats, poultry, frozen fish, cold cuts, ready-made soups, wines, appetizers and salads. Gift certificates, party trays and Shabbos meals are available. We offer personalized service and quality Glatt Kosher products at competitive prices. Always ready to "meat" your needs.






any of those help Nate?

[simchat_torah]

There are also some Rabbinical supervisors that certify kosher food in Ohio... http://www.kashrusmagazine.com/ksg/usa/ny_penn.html

[WildCelt]

Thanks much for the Cleveland links ST! I am visiting my in-laws this weekend in Ohio, and perhaps we can drop by a few of those shops before Shabbat.

[muffler dragon]

any of those help Nate?
If I lived in Cleveland, then I'd be in Judaism heaven.

But I happen to be stuck in the bowels of Hades in NC. :sorry:

I live in High Point and work in Greensboro.

Thanks for all the effort tho.

Nathan

[Talmidah]

LOL I looked up kosher foods in Greensboro and this is the only thing that came up:

Al-Aqsa Halal Meat Market
2809 Groometown Road, Greensboro, NC 27407

[muffler dragon]

LOL I looked up kosher foods in Greensboro and this is the only thing that came up:

Al-Aqsa Halal Meat Market
2809 Groometown Road, Greensboro, NC 27407
Thank you very much, Talmidah.

Never thought there'd be anything here.

[Talmidah]

Thank you very much, Talmidah.

Never thought there'd be anything here.
Nate,

I was laughing at that because ‘halal’ is an Arabic term used for muslim requirements for their food. Halal food may not meet kosher requirements. There is no prohibition of the mixing of dairy and meat (which I’m not sure you follow or not). Also things like shellfish and meats other than pork would be considered halal, but not kosher.



That’s why I thought it funny that this market came up under ‘kosher’.

[simchat_torah]

a few points of interest is that the islamic kosher nearly resemble Judaic kosher laws except on the issue of mixing meat and dairy. There are a few other minor differences, but nothing a karaite would consider unkosher ;) (*cough* thadman *cough*)

[Henaynei]

Kosher Mart & Delicatessen
http://www.switchboard.com/images/space.gif3840 E Independence Blvd
Charlotte, NC 28205var version = new String(navigator.appVersion);if(navigator.appName == "Microsoft Internet Explorer"){if (version.toLowerCase().indexOf("mac") != -1){document.write("
")}}

In Charlotte there is an Orthodox shul - Ohr HaTorah - 704 366-3984 - while they are Chabad and are anti-Messianic (to the max) you are "safe" on Greensboro - just ask them where they get their kosher meat - likely it is at the Market above ^^ ;)

Points of Jewish Interest in NC (http://www.jewishtourofthecarolinas.org/rws.html)

THE PROMISING LAND
Despite its size, Carolina city boasts active Jewish community (http://www.uscj.org/seabd/bethdavid/jta%20news.htm)

[Henaynei]

a few points of interest is that the islamic kosher nearly resemble Judaic kosher laws except on the issue of mixing meat and dairy. There are a few other minor differences, but nothing a karaite would consider unkosher ;) (*cough* thadman *cough*) Well, AND the fact that Muslims eat shellfish ;) - but a Islamic market is a good place to search for kosher foods - just be sure that the foods bear a kosher symbol (heksher).

[Sephania]

I don't consider the fact that when the animal is brought into a Muslim butcher shop it is slaughtered while invoking the name of Allah as "minor", kinda goes against the 2nd commandment, don't ya think? ;)

[Henaynei]

I don't consider the fact that when the animal is brought into a Muslim butcher shop it is slaughtered while invoking the name of Allah as "minor", kinda goes against the 2nd commandment, don't ya think? ;) Perhaps, but I kinda figure that it is for JUST this kind of situation the Sha'ul said that "for we know that idols are nothing."

Besides, the Kosher meat in the islamic shop is usually reall Kosher - with a full heksher - as there are more of our people who are kosher butchers than theirs. As I said, look for the kosher symbol - that will mean the it was slaughtered by a Jew and according to Jewish laws ;)

[muffler dragon]

Sounds contradictory that an islamic shop would sell kosher. You'd think that it would be despised.

[Talmidah]

Sounds contradictory that an islamic shop would sell kosher. You'd think that it would be despised. For the most part (while there are some contradictory opinions), muslims are comfortable eating kosher because kosher food laws are more strict than are halal laws. One exception is where it comes to alcohol, which is forbidden to muslims. As someone (Henny or Yafet) said, you can find kosher food in a muslim market, but you have to be cautious. In looking on the internet, I ran across some kosher places in Charlotte, but I guess that's about 90 miles from Greensboro....you could maybe make a trip once a month or every couple of months and stock up....

[Talmidah]

You know, I was wondering why "Greensboro" keeps standing out to me, and then I realized. A while back, my rabbi was talking to me about what I'll do with my kids, schoolwise, when they get older. There are no Jewish highschools in my immediate area so that is a concern. Anyway, he was telling me about a man who gave land and a huge endowment to establish a Jewish boarding school in Greensboro, North Carolina. I don't remember the name of the school, but you may want to look into that and give them a call and inquire if they know of kosher facilities in the area.

[Talmidah]

I live in High Point and work in Greensboro.
Nathan
Nathan, I wrote to a synagogue in Greensboro to inquire and just received this reply (hope it helps a little):

There are no Kosher butchers or supermarkets in Greensboro. Lowes on New Garden and Harris Teeter by Friendly Center carrier Kosher products including frozen chicken and some meat. Quality Kosher Emporium in Atlanta delivers several times a year to Greensboro.

[simchat_torah]

Well, AND the fact that Muslims eat shellfish ...
There are 72 sects within Islam. Some eat all shellfish, others only eat that which they perceive as 'scales and fins' such as shrip... which somewhat have scales and fins, etc.

So.. it really depens on which Muslim certificate states it is "Halal."

In general, it is best to avoid getting Islamic Kosher food. That is.. if you're going Rabbinic Kosher. If you're going Karaite Kosher, then most is just dandy.

-yafet

[The Thadman]

a few points of interest is that the islamic kosher nearly resemble Judaic kosher laws except on the issue of mixing meat and dairy. There are a few other minor differences, but nothing a karaite would consider unkosher ;) (*cough* thadman *cough*)

What? ;)

That'd make me the elephant in the room I guess... Except that elephants're not kosher. :)

And I don't eat shellfish :)

Peace!
-Steve-o

[Sephania]

Perhaps, but I kinda figure that it is for JUST this kind of situation the Sha'ul said that "for we know that idols are nothing."

Besides, the Kosher meat in the islamic shop is usually reall Kosher - with a full heksher - as there are more of our people who are kosher butchers than theirs. As I said, look for the kosher symbol - that will mean the it was slaughtered by a Jew and according to Jewish laws ;)I could be wrong but that had to do with idols but allah is not an idol but I believe the enemy himself and knowing that the meat was killed invoking his name ( in some form) would keep me from eating it, even to honor the "all apperences of evil" exhortation. I dont' think that falls in the same line as empowering, but more in line with keeping holy, kosher, separate.

JMHOFWIW:)
Z

[Talmidah]

This is the response I got from the reform temple in High Point. I guess Lowe's will be your best bet in your area.


Hi Elena. Unfortunately, there are no kosher markets in the area. However, there is one supermarket that does carry kosher beef and chicken (frozen & pre-packaged). They also carry a large selection of other kosher products (soups, etc.). This store, Lowe's Foods, is located on New Garden Road in Greensboro. If you would like to e-mail me back with where you are located, I would be happy to provide directions. If we can provide any other assistance, please let us know. And, please feel free to join us for services (Friday evenings at 8:00 PM, Saturday mornings at 9:00 AM)

[Henaynei]

I could be wrong but that had to do with idols but allah is not an idol but I believe the enemy himself and knowing that the meat was killed invoking his name ( in some form) would keep me from eating it, even to honor the "all apperences of evil" exhortation. I dont' think that falls in the same line as empowering, but more in line with keeping holy, kosher, separate.

JMHOFWIW:)
Z
Well, let me try to clarify again :)

1) allah is a pagan god - idols were pagan gods - it was the god the idol represented that was the abomination, not the actual wood or stone itself :) While I too believe that the religion of allah is evil, the case about allah being "the enemy himself" could just as well be made concerning Molakh and numerous gods/idols. Fact is, these gods are nothing - but the adversary does use these nothing-gods to deceive and destroy people. IOW - it ain't just about allah ;)

2) Meat that is marked *KOSHER* was ONLY slaughtered by a Jewish person. Arab markets sell kosher meats because they also meet the requirements of their laws - but kosher meat is kosher meat and NO Name other than HaShem was invoked during it's slaughtering ;)

Any way - hope I made myself better understood. Buying Kosher meat (it ain't Kosher unless it bears a Rabbinic Authroity label) in a place other than a Jewish store does not negate the Kosher status of the meat - whether it is Empire frozen chickens at the local supermarket or Kosher meats at the local arab market - as long as it bears a respected Kosher label, it is truly Kosher ;)

[Sephania]

Oh, no, sorry, I apparently didn't make myself clear. I was not saying that Kosher meat was made "un-Kosher" by being sold in a Muslim market, but just that their meat was not so. I learned this from a muslim while we were having a conversation about meat and she was looking for a place to buy Kosher as there were no Muslim markets. I guess you can only go one way with this not both. ;)

[simchat_torah]

It really depends on who is certifying the meat as kosher. Some extreme ultra orthodox groups will not certify meat as kosher unless prepared by a Jew. Most other kosher certificates require that the mitzvot and halacha concerning Kashrut be followed, regardless of who prepares the meat.

Each kosher certificate has documentation stating their standards. Each varies depending on the Beit Din, certifying Rabbi, etc.

shalom,
yafet

[Henaynei]

however, it is my understanding that no heksher would be found on meat that had been slaughtered by and under the standards of Islamic law. True, some Jewish persons might consider that Hallal meat was kosher - I, like Zayit, would not. But meat marked with a heksher as Kosher, is kosher, not Hallal.

As with all foods (didn't we just discuss something similar about gelatin?) one needs to know what heksher standards they feel comfortable with and stick to the things which bear that/those hekshers.

In the end, as others have cited above, it is the individual that is responsible before HaShem ;)

[Sephania]

Something interesting in the Quran
He hath only forbidden you dead meat, and blood, and the flesh of swine, and that on which any other name hath been invoked besides that of God.
Surat-ul Baqara (2):173

But if that name is Allah....................................