Some questions I have for you! :)

[Yuanshen]

1. The Bible says Passover is on the 14th of the month.
Why are you disobeying God's rules and celebrating it according to Judaism tradition, the tradition of men? Will not God get angry?



2. The Bible says it is not good to be under the Law for righteousness; yet it also says we should not forget the commandments. How would you describe your way of living in comparison to the Galatian's way of living (under the Law, fallen from grace.) How are you different from them?


3. The Law say that if you obey, God heals all your sickness. Why
are there sick Messianics? I read that one of the best Messianic teachers, MrBacchiocchi, has cancer. How can you have that kind of illness, when God says that the only people who will get sick are those that do not obey His Law? He only puts diseases on the unholy and disobedient.



Thank you for all question answered.
Yuanshen








http://druidjournal.net/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/forVT.JPG

[Lulav]

1. The Bible says Passover is on the 14th of the month.
Why are you disobeying God's rules and celebrating it according to Judaism tradition, the tradition of men? Will not God get angry?



2. The Bible says it is not good to be under the Law for righteousness; yet it also says we should not forget the commandments. How would you describe your way of living in comparison to the Galatian's way of living (under the Law, fallen from grace.) How are you different from them?


3. The Law say that if you obey, God heals all your sickness. Why
are there sick Messianics? I read that one of the best Messianic teachers, MrBacchiocchi, has cancer. How can you have that kind of illness, when God says that the only people who will get sick are those that do not obey His Law? He only puts diseases on the unholy and disobedient.



Thank you for all question answered.
Yuanshen








http://druidjournal.net/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/forVT.JPG


1. 14th of the first month that is when we celebrate it, what makes you think we don't?

2. The law does not inpute righteousness upon us, only Yeshua's sacrifice does that, abiding we follow him and keep his commandments. Most Messianics believe that he was the one who talked with Moshe and gave him the commandments, there are others that don't mind you.

3. Read Isaiah 53 then ask your question again.

Shalom!

[Yuanshen]

1. 14th of the first month that is when we celebrate it, what makes you think we don't?

2. The law does not inpute righteousness upon us, only Yeshua's sacrifice does that, abiding we follow him and keep his commandments. Most Messianics believe that he was the one who talked with Moshe and gave him the commandments, there are others that don't mind you.

3. Read Isaiah 53 then ask your question again.

Shalom!



Hello,

Judaism is celebrating Passover on the 19th of April.

Also, could you tell me, how does your life differ from the Galatians, who were trying to be righteous by being under the Law? Compare your life to theirs and tell me how yours is different. Why is your life ok, and God was not happy with theirs? They were being Law-keeping just like you. So why is your way ok, and their way was not ok? Please tell me the difference between you and them, between Messianc Judaism and the Galatians and their fall from grace.


I read Isaiah 53 - and I still ask, why are Messianics sick? That passage did not answer my question. God says: obey and you will be healed; disobey and you will get a disease. So why are some of you sick?

yuan

[Lulav]

Hello,

Judaism is celebrating Passover on the 19th of April.

Also, could you tell me, how does your life differ from the Galatians, who were trying to be righteous by being under the Law? Compare your life to theirs and tell me how yours is different. Why is your life ok, and God was not happy with theirs? They were being Law-keeping just like you. So why is your way ok, and their way was not ok? Please tell me the difference between you and them, between Messianc Judaism and the Galatians and their fall from grace.


I read Isaiah 53 - and I still ask, why are Messianics sick? That passage did not answer my question. God says: obey and you will be healed; disobey and you will get a disease. So why are some of you sick?

yuan

We don't use the Roman calendar, we use G-ds calendar and our first month of the year is in April this year, and the 14th of Nisan or Aviv which is the first month of the bible, is on the Roman calendar, April 19th. Jews celebrate Passover, not Judaism. :)

Galatians, - Messianics don't depend upon their salvation by works, alone. It is a combination of faith and works, just as James teaches. Because faith without works is dead. And Yeshua said that those that belong to him, have the faith in him and keep his fathers commandments. We keep them out of love/obedience, not for salvation, there is a big difference.

About Isaiah, you said that

He only puts diseases on the unholy and disobedient. and I asked you to read Isaiah 53, which describes Yeshua. So I ask you to ask again, because do you think you can say this about Yeshua, that he was unholy and disobedient?

How about you read the story of the blind man in John chapter 9, and see if you don't understand.

:)

[Yuanshen]

We don't use the Roman calendar, we use G-ds calendar and our first month of the year is in April this year, and the 14th of Nisan or Aviv which is the first month of the bible, is on the Roman calendar, April 19th. Jews celebrate Passover, not Judaism. :)

Galatians, - Messianics don't depend upon their salvation by works, alone. It is a combination of faith and works, just as James teaches. Because faith without works is dead. And Yeshua said that those that belong to him, have the faith in him and keep his fathers commandments. We keep them out of love/obedience, not for salvation, there is a big difference.

About Isaiah, you said that

and I asked you to read Isaiah 53, which describes Yeshua. So I ask you to ask again, because do you think you can say this about Yeshua, that he was unholy and disobedient?

How about you read the story of the blind man in John chapter 9, and see if you don't understand.

:)


I know that it says Jesus took our diseases to the cross.
But the Law says God will put diseases on the disobedient. It is a part of the curse that Jesus frees us from.
But Messianics want to keep the Law. So I ask, if you are keeping the Law, why aren't you healthy because God says He will heal those that keep his law. That is my question.


You still did not answer my question. I want to know from your own mouth - how is your Law keeping life different from the Law keeping life of the Galatians, who had angered God by what they had done? Who had fallen from grace? Can you tell me? Compare your life to theirs - how are you different from them? Why haven't you fallen from grace, as they did? What is the difference between you and them?

I think you should enquire of the others here and ask them what day they will be keeping the Passover, because I don't think they will be keeping it on the 14th. Not if Judaism says "Keep it on the 19th" they probably will not.

Ok well hopefull you can at least answer my questions this time.

yuan

ps, if you keep sabbath on friday-saturday, you are using man's calender. God's calender is according to the New Moon. He does not have a Monday-Sunday calender in heaven.

[Lulav]

Yuan, I'm sorry but you my friend are the one not getting it.

There are two calendars, one the world uses, and the other Judaism uses which is the biblical calendar, which G-d set up to keep his feasts and festivals and holy days.

On the worlds calendar this year, on April 19, it is also the same day on the Hebrew/biblical calendar called Nisan or Aviv 14th. That is the passover from the bible.

We keep passover according to G-ds calendar, not mans. There is no March , or April or any other of the names of months, in the Bible, we keep what the bible says.

I guess you are confused as many are because the Christian church would rather have Easter not near Passover, and this year they are a month apart. Sometimes the calendars are closer together, but this year is very bad as Passover comes after what is being celebrated as resurrection day.

Quite confusing I know , but we are celebrating according to the calendar G-d set up. :)

PS, I will read thorough Galatians again and try to answer you better. I'm sorry you are not understanding what I was trying to show you regarding the diseases.

Basically sometimes it is for G-ds glory, accept it or not.

[Yuanshen]

Yuan, I'm sorry but you my friend are the one not getting it.

There are two calendars, one the world uses, and the other Judaism uses which is the biblical calendar, which G-d set up to keep his feasts and festivals and holy days.

On the worlds calendar this year, on April 19, it is also the same day on the Hebrew/biblical calendar called Nisan or Aviv 14th. That is the passover from the bible.

We keep passover according to G-ds calendar, not mans. There is no March , or April or any other of the names of months, in the Bible, we keep what the bible says.

I guess you are confused as many are because the Christian church would rather have Easter not near Passover, and this year they are a month apart. Sometimes the calendars are closer together, but this year is very bad as Passover comes after what is being celebrated as resurrection day.

Quite confusing I know , but we are celebrating according to the calendar G-d set up. :)

PS, I will read thorough Galatians again and try to answer you better. I'm sorry you are not understanding what I was trying to show you regarding the diseases.

Basically sometimes it is for G-ds glory, accept it or not.



I know that in Judaism, they have months called "Nissan" and things like that. I realize that in this way you are making a difference between the roman and "God's calender.

But that still does not change the fact that they are celebrating the Passover on the 19th. Also, they are not keeping a month according to new moon, as it used to be done (and should be done.)



From: http://www.jewfaq.org/calendar.htm
The lunar month on the Jewish calendar begins when the first sliver of moon becomes visible after the dark of the moon. In ancient times, the new months used to be determined by observation. When people observed the new moon, they would notify the Sanhedrin. When the Sanhedrin heard testimony from two independent, reliable eyewitnesses that the new moon occurred on a certain date, they would declare the rosh chodesh (http://christianforums.com/defs/chodesh.htm) (first of the month) and send out messengers to tell people when the month began.


The Bible says that God gave the moon and other heavenly lights so that you could know when certain holy days began. Judaism is no longer obeying this rule. They are not keeping Passover on the 14th of Nissan, as God says to do!

Also, they do not include the month of Ziv, as the Bible calls that month. They replaced it with another name. Look at 1 Kings 6:37


The month is new when there is a New Moon. From there you count days until it is the sabbath or other holy day. That is God's Law.



Do you want to see when the Month will start in April?
Do you want to know when Passover will really happen?

http://about-torah.org/NewMoon/NewMoonCalendar.htm




Judaism doesn't know when its feasts are anymore. They lost track of the temples, the Messiah, the Time of God.


yuan


Yes please read Galatians. I would like to know your opinion of a comparison of the difference betwen your way of life and theirs.

[Henaynei]

re: keeping the law:

would you say that it is good to keep the 10 commandments?

why do you think one should keep them?

[Henaynei]

re: Passover

We always keep it on the 14th of Nissan, just as commanded in G-d's word, according to G-d's calendar

This year the 14th of Nissan falls on the gregorian date of April 19th

other years the 14th of Nissan falls on other days of the gregorian calendar.... no matter when the 14th of Nissan falls on the gregorian calendar we ALWAYS celebrate Passover on the 14th of Nissan, just as G-d commands....

[Henaynei]

re: Galatians

your questions come from a wrong understanding of what Sha'ul was teaching to the Galatians - my husband has just finished teaching a full course on Galatians from the Hebraic perspective from which it was written... it was quite enlightening (I thought so and so did the Baptist folk who came to the study ;) - we hope to eventually have it on DVD and make it available for folks to enhance their study of Galatians...

For now I could not do it justice in this format as it is quite lengthy and does require concurrent study .... so all I can say is that the standard Christian perspective and teaching which has transmuted Sha'ul's teaching into an anti-Jewish/Judaism and anti-Torah teaching has done all of Christendom and Judaism a gross disservice....

[zaksmummy]

I think why you arent getting 14th Nissan starting on 19th April is because Gods days run evening to morning not morning to evening. So Shabbat for example starts friday evening when it gets dark and end saturday evening when it gets dark.

If you read Genesis God says "there was evening and there was morning the 1st, 2nd, 3rd day" etc. This is what Jews and Messianics go by.

It took me ages to get my head round it.

On the living by works thing - I think the problem is the translation. Obviously I cant talk about the Mandarin or Cantonese translation but the English translation isnt always very good, in that the emphasis on some words is wrong.

The Law for example - the correct Hebrew word is Torah, which is translated as Law, but this idea conjures up the idea of a strict set of rules and regulations which need abiding by or else there is punishment.

What Torah actually is is best described by my sons childrens bible - "the best way to live". God gave the children of Israel a set of commandments which are the best way to live, we can agree with him and try our best to live up to them. What Yeshua did was write them on our hearts so we would want to fulfil them from a desire to obey God. That said, and I'm sure that any Jewish person here will agree, that isnt just about obeying the commandments, its also about having a right heart attitude towards God, otherwise that is when the dead works come in.

This is my understanding, I'm sure more knowledgeable people will point of things I've got wrong or misunderstood!

Catrin xx

[Yuanshen]

re: Galatians

your questions come from a wrong understanding of what Sha'ul was teaching to the Galatians - my husband has just finished teaching a full course on Galatians from the Hebraic perspective from which it was written... it was quite enlightening (I thought so and so did the Baptist folk who came to the study ;) - we hope to eventually have it on DVD and make it available for folks to enhance their study of Galatians...

For now I could not do it justice in this format as it is quite lengthy and does require concurrent study .... so all I can say is that the standard Christian perspective and teaching which has transmuted Sha'ul's teaching into an anti-Jewish/Judaism and anti-Torah teaching has done all of Christendom and Judaism a gross disservice....


From the Hebrew view what do you think the galatians did that made Paul angry? How did they fall from grace?

I think from what I have read that Paul taught good advice from what he learned in the Judaism life but also gave non-Jews the freedom to decide what was right, to make decision by faith and be led not by instinct but by the Spirit.

yuan

[Yuanshen]

re: Passover

We always keep it on the 14th of Nissan, just as commanded in G-d's word, according to G-d's calendar

This year the 14th of Nissan falls on the gregorian date of April 19th

other years the 14th of Nissan falls on other days of the gregorian calendar.... no matter when the 14th of Nissan falls on the gregorian calendar we ALWAYS celebrate Passover on the 14th of Nissan, just as G-d commands....


Could you show how your view works? How do you know when the 14th of Nisan is, and how do you calculate that into 19th of Roman calender?

yuan

[Yuanshen]

re: keeping the law:

would you say that it is good to keep the 10 commandments?

why do you think one should keep them?


I think it is good to keep any commandment God says to keep. But I think all commandments should be interpreted in the sense of the new covenent. If there is a new covenent then any commandment from the older covenent has to be re-evaluated.

Can I ask you, I know God says that if you obey His Law then he will not put any bad disease on you. If you obey he will take any disease he did put on you far away. So why is a messianic like Mr Bacchiocchi having cancer?

I watch a show and they send me things to read for free. I was surprised to learn that one of the teacher's wife was passed away from cancer. How can that be, when they said they kept the Law? God cannot tell a lie, so why did God put a disease on those people?
yuan

[Lulav]

I think this should be moved to the debate forum. These are more than questions, these are challenges to our beliefs which aren't allowed according to the new rules.

[Henaynei]

Could you show how your view works? How do you know when the 14th of Nisan is, and how do you calculate that into 19th of Roman calender?

yuanthis is *not* my view - it is the view of all of Judaism for the last 5,000 years since the first time they had to live in a country that did not use G-d's calendar....

as for proof - try www.hebcal.com (http://www.hebcal.com)

[Henaynei]

I think it is good to keep any commandment God says to keep. But I think all commandments should be interpreted in the sense of the new covenant. If there is a new covenant then any commandment from the older covenant has to be re-evaluated.

Can I ask you, I know God says that if you obey His Law then he will not put any bad disease on you. If you obey he will take any disease he did put on you far away. So why is a messianic like Mr Bacchiocchi having cancer?

I watch a show and they send me things to read for free. I was surprised to learn that one of the teacher's wife was passed away from cancer. How can that be, when they said they kept the Law? God cannot tell a lie, so why did God put a disease on those people?
yuan

1) NO one (who understands the bible) keeps ANY Law or set of Laws to earn salvation or right standing with G-d
2) like with the 10 commandments, we try to keep the other Torah commandments because we love G-d ("If you love me, obey my commandments")
3) Only those who can keep ALL the commandments perfectly stand to avoid disease
4) the ONLY man who EVER kept ALL the commandments perfectly was also the ONLY man EVER FREE from ALL disease - Yeshua


btw - Dr. Samuele Bacchiocchi is a wise and good teacher, but he is not Messianic, he is Seventh Day Adventist :)

[Lulav]

He's not getting it, rather than get upset, especially today, I just dropped it. But I think it should be moved to debate since that seems to be what he wants to do.

[Henaynei]

He's not getting it, rather than get upset, especially today, I just dropped it. But I think it should be moved to debate since that seems to be what he wants to do.I agree with moving this to Debate - although I don't think he's going to get many satisfying bites on his Tao jag, which I believe has been his destination all along...

[visionary]

Moved to debate