Questions about Seder?

[Hilkka]

Shalom!


I'm here to ask your help. I apologize if I make some mistakes, English is not my native language and I hope you understand what I write.


I'm a teacher at lower grade in Finnish comprehensive school and now I'm studying a little bit more to qualify for teaching religion also in the upper grade. For this qualifying I need to make a small study with some kind of questionary. And that's where I need your help.


I 'm a Pentecostal Christian and according to my knowledge there are no Jewish roots in my family, but ... you'll never know. Anyway Israel and Jewish life touch something deep in my soul. I'm interested in Jewish Pesach preparations and Seder-meal traditions and the symbolism in it seen especially from the Messianic point of view. My problem is that I live here in the periphery - only about 1600 traditional Jews in this country, I don't know how many Messianic Jews. Of course there are also such Christians in this country, who have found their Jewish background (e.g. my own priest) or who are otherwise living according Jewish traditions, but it's not easy for to find them. No Messianic congregations, I think. That's why my teacher, a docent in the University of Helsinki, gave me a permission to try my luck in message bords in Internet, although she was a little bit suspicious.


If there are any of you who would be ready to answer my questions (I'll send them if somebody would be interested to answer) either here on the message board or privately by e-mail, please tell me. I'm not interested about who you are, I'm not asking your names or anything like that. Only a few questions about your religious background and what Seder and other Pesach traditions spiritually mean to you. Even better, if you already used to practise Jewish religion when you found Messiah, so you could perhaps tell if anything changed or any new symbolic meanings in Seder or other Pesach traditions popped out.


I have to give my study plan to my teacher far before Pesach, that's why I'm asking these questions already now in March to find out if my study is even possible to carry out.




Your's sincerely
Marketta from Finland, marhort(at)gmail.com

[Lulav]

Shalom!


I'm here to ask your help. I apologize if I make some mistakes, English is not my native language and I hope you understand what I write.


I'm a teacher at lower grade in Finnish comprehensive school and now I'm studying a little bit more to qualify for teaching religion also in the upper grade. For this qualifying I need to make a small study with some kind of questionary. And that's where I need your help.


I 'm a Pentecostal Christian and according to my knowledge there are no Jewish roots in my family, but ... you'll never know. Anyway Israel and Jewish life touch something deep in my soul. I'm interested in Jewish Pesach preparations and Seder-meal traditions and the symbolism in it seen especially from the Messianic point of view. My problem is that I live here in the periphery - only about 1600 traditional Jews in this country, I don't know how many Messianic Jews. Of course there are also such Christians in this country, who have found their Jewish background (e.g. my own priest) or who are otherwise living according Jewish traditions, but it's not easy for to find them. No Messianic congregations, I think. That's why my teacher, a docent in the University of Helsinki, gave me a permission to try my luck in message bords in Internet, although she was a little bit suspicious.


If there are any of you who would be ready to answer my questions (I'll send them if somebody would be interested to answer) either here on the message board or privately by e-mail, please tell me. I'm not interested about who you are, I'm not asking your names or anything like that. Only a few questions about your religious background and what Seder and other Pesach traditions spiritually mean to you. Even better, if you already used to practise Jewish religion when you found Messiah, so you could perhaps tell if anything changed or any new symbolic meanings in Seder or other Pesach traditions popped out.


I have to give my study plan to my teacher far before Pesach, that's why I'm asking these questions already now in March to find out if my study is even possible to carry out.




Your's sincerely
Marketta from Finland, marhort(at)gmail.com

Shalom Marketta, nice to met you! I have family in Denmark. :)

[Hilkka]

Thank you Lulav! I'll send you a PM when the system lets me to do that. I don't have enough of posts yet. That's why I'm writing this here...this is my fourth post....

[Hilkka]

...and THIS is the fifth one :) Now I can perhaps send PM:s!

[Skeeterbug]

Shalom!


I'm here to ask your help. I apologize if I make some mistakes, English is not my native language and I hope you understand what I write.


I'm a teacher at lower grade in Finnish comprehensive school and now I'm studying a little bit more to qualify for teaching religion also in the upper grade. For this qualifying I need to make a small study with some kind of questionary. And that's where I need your help.


I 'm a Pentecostal Christian and according to my knowledge there are no Jewish roots in my family, but ... you'll never know. Anyway Israel and Jewish life touch something deep in my soul. I'm interested in Jewish Pesach preparations and Seder-meal traditions and the symbolism in it seen especially from the Messianic point of view. My problem is that I live here in the periphery - only about 1600 traditional Jews in this country, I don't know how many Messianic Jews. Of course there are also such Christians in this country, who have found their Jewish background (e.g. my own priest) or who are otherwise living according Jewish traditions, but it's not easy for to find them. No Messianic congregations, I think. That's why my teacher, a docent in the University of Helsinki, gave me a permission to try my luck in message bords in Internet, although she was a little bit suspicious.


If there are any of you who would be ready to answer my questions (I'll send them if somebody would be interested to answer) either here on the message board or privately by e-mail, please tell me. I'm not interested about who you are, I'm not asking your names or anything like that. Only a few questions about your religious background and what Seder and other Pesach traditions spiritually mean to you. Even better, if you already used to practise Jewish religion when you found Messiah, so you could perhaps tell if anything changed or any new symbolic meanings in Seder or other Pesach traditions popped out.


I have to give my study plan to my teacher far before Pesach, that's why I'm asking these questions already now in March to find out if my study is even possible to carry out.




Your's sincerely
Marketta from Finland, marhort(at)gmail.com
What would really help you is a Haggadah, that is the book that is used at the seder it has the order etc. someone correct me if I am wrong but the only difference in a regular seder and a messianic seder is a messianic can see the messiah in the seder whereas a Jew who hasn'tfound the messiah does not see the messiah in the seder like for instance the afikomen. send me a message if you want to talk by email
Shalom

[Hilkka]

Skeeterbug, thank you. I have Haggada. The point is that I'm interested about what kind of 'new' meanings Messiah-belief gives to the different parts of Seder. I know the traditional Jewish symbolism, but what happens when you see Messiah also in Seder?

I might send you also e-mail, when I get familiar to this board. I'm obviously so stupid that I can't find things from the board. Wait a minute or two... :)

[helenacan]

I have the perfect study guide to help you in your desire to know more about how Christians can celebrate Passover or Pesach in conjunction with Easter to honor Christ, and which ties together the symbolism of Pesach with the reality found in Christ.

Many years ago, I wrote a study guide about this subject. It can be found at my Pillar of Enoch Ministry web site. Here is a link to my web site:

www (dot) pillar-of-enoch (dot) com

You will need to type it in as they do not allow links in posts here. Major problem, if you ask me.

Once you get to my main web page, you will see button links on the left. Click on the "Free Articles and Downloads" button, go to that page, and you will see links to an on line version, and an Adobe PDF download of "A Christian View of Passover" that you can print.

I hope this will prove helpful to you. You might want to explore my other web pages to see the great information there that ties together more Christian and Jewish traditions like those at Christmas and Chanukah.

If you need further assistance, or have questions about my Christian Haggadah style study guide, please feel free to contact me.

In Christ,
Helena Lehman
E-mail helena (at) pillar-of-enoch (dot) com

[Hilkka]

Earlier during the spring I asked here if somebody would like to help me in my study (the subject of the study is 'The symbolism of the Seder-meal and other Pesach preparations from the Messianic point of view').


I got a few answers - thanks to all of you who have already contaced me, your help has been really important!! - but just in case there still is somebody who has something to say, I decided to send my questions to this forum. If you would like answer, but you don't want to answer here 'in public', please send me e-mail to marhort(at)gmail.com


Here are my questions:


1. How would you describe your religious background - Jewish, Christian or something in between them, what?


2. This year the Easter/Passover in western calendar was already in March, but Pesach in Jewish calendar in April. Which one you choose? Is it easy to make the decision? If not, why?


3. How are you preparing for celebrating Pesach? Is cleaning up the home from anything leaven important to you? If yes, what does it mean personally to you?


4. Do you participate Seder every year? What does the meal mean to you?


5. Do you think believing in Jesus/Yeshua gives something new to the symbolism of the different parts of the Seder meal comparing with the traditional Jewish symbols (the more details you want to give about karpas, maror, matsa e.g., the better)?


6. If you have been 'an active Jew' already before finding the Messiah, please tell also something about your thoughts and feelings during the first Seders you took part as Messianic.


7. If you feel there is any special Messianic purpose in Seder, can you tell wheather you heard the explanations from somebody else or did you just realise it inside yourself?


8. Would you like to tell something else about participating Seder?


9. If necessary, would you be ready to answer some extra questions later in the spring here on the forum or by e-mail (in that case, please contact me personally to marhort(at)gmail.com)?


_______Yes.


_______ No, not this time.




Thank you for your time!


Marketta, Finland
marhor(at)gmail.com

[Hilkka]

I tried to edit my message, but didn't succeed... the e-mail address there in the end of the questionairy is wrong, one letter missing :sorry:

The right one is marhort(at)gmail.com

[Torah]

This might help.

http://christianforums.com/t2569800-how-tooput-on-a-passover-seder-at-home.html

Shalom

[Hilkka]

Thank you for the link, Torah!

[kivi]

To Hikka From kivi #8 7th April 2008, 04:38 AM Hilkka vbmenu_register("postmenu_45708297", true); Newbie 12:49 AM Reputation: 10Health: 8%Blessings: 110Posts: 10 Referrals: 0 Earlier during the spring I asked here if somebody would like to help me in my study (the subject of the study is 'The symbolism of the Seder-meal and other Pesach preparations from the Messianic point of view'). Kivi>>> For a Jew, that is an impossible question. Messianic Christianity is not a part of Judaism any where in the world. Of course a person is allowed to have any belief. But when it comes to practice, you will find no Messianic Christian congregation or organization part of any Jewish community in the world.<<<I got a few answers - thanks to all of you who have already contact me, your help has been really important!! - but just in case there still is somebody who has something to say, I decided to send my questions to this forum. If you would like answer, but you don't want to answer here 'in public', please send me e-mail to marhort(at)gmail.comHere are my questions:1. How would you describe your religious background - Jewish, Christian or something in between them, what? Kivi>>> I am a Jew.<<<2. This year the Easter/Passover in western calendar was already in March, but Pesach in Jewish calendar in April. Which one you choose? Is it easy to make the decision? If not, why? kivi>>>The Jewish calendar is lunar. As such, there is a 11 day difference every year. To make up that difference between the solar and lunar calendars, Judaism adds a mother [Adar II] about every 3 years. This year is one of those 'leap years'.<<<3. How are you preparing for celebrating Pesach? Is cleaning up the home from anything leaven important to you? If yes, what does it mean personally to you? kivi>>>Cleaning the leaven is one of the most important symbolic tasks of Pesach. It teaches us that everybody is responsible for their own averiahs [mistakes, lacks, sins, failures] and that only they have the responsibility for cleaning them up.<<<4. Do you participate Seder every year? What does the meal mean to you? kivi>>>Yes: It is my personal freedom from my character defects and failures.<<<<5. Do you think believing in Jesus/Yeshua gives something new to the symbolism of the different parts of the Seder meal comparing with the traditional Jewish symbols (the more details you want to give about karpas, maror, matsa e.g., the better)? kivi>>>Adding a extra god to the service only distracts from it. The Passover Seder as the rest of Judaism is a complete and fulling operational and sufficient spiritual system that needs no 'completion' or addition.<<<<6. If you have been 'an active Jew' already before finding the Messiah, please tell also something about your thoughts and feelings during the first Seders you took part as Messianic. kivi>>>>not appropriate<<<7. If you feel there is any special Messianic purpose in Seder, can you tell whether you heard the explanations from somebody else or did you just realise it inside yourself? kivi>>>>Since Judaism is the original messianic religion, messianic themes and symbolisms abound. However, since the Messiah has not come yet, we are still in anticipation.<<<<8. Would you like to tell something else about participating Seder? kivi>>>>It is a perfect template for the rest of the year. <<<<9. If necessary, would you be ready to answer some extra questions later in the spring here on the forum or by e-mail (in that case, please contact me personally to marhort(at)gmail.com)? kivi>>>yes.<<<_______Yes._______ No, not this time.Thank you for your time!Marketta, Finlandmarhor(at)gmail.com kivi>>>Thank you for taking the time to read my replies.<<<

[Hilkka]

Thank you, kivi (you know - 'kivi' is 'a stone' in Finnish')

I understand the Messianics are not part of Jewish congregations. I also appriaciate you answered my questions although you are not Messianic yourself.

It would be interesting to hear IF you have, as a Jew, any 'extra' symbolism for the parts of seder, I mean anything that has purpose for you but what is not mentioned e.g. in Haggadah. Something 'personal'.

May the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob bless you!

[Hilkka]

Thanks to everyone who reacted to my questionairy. My task is finally finished! Be blessed!!!

[jaihare]

The purpose of the Pesach seder is to remember the fact that our people left Egypt. It has nothing to do with symbolizing things about Messiah or such stretches. Why are you looking for hidden meaning in what is clearly understood?

I sometimes wonder if people look for hidden meaning in everything else in life like they do the Jewish ritual. I mean, Jews CREATED the hagadah and the seder ritual. Why would a Jew create something to tell the story of a god in whom they do not believe?

Jason

[ChavaK]

I mean, Jews CREATED the hagadah and the seder ritual. Why would a Jew create something to tell the story of a god in whom they do not believe?

Jason

Good point!

[jaihare]

Thanks to everyone who reacted to my questionairy. My task is finally finished! Be blessed!!!
Did you give up the ghost?

[Lulav]

Hmm, what does Greek afikomen have to do with leaving Egypt?

[jaihare]

Hmm, what does Greek afikomen have to do with leaving Egypt?
We have to have some fun to keep kids interested. This is a kinetic learning and memory experience.