Question about the one flock of Jesus

[Yuanshen]

Could you please read and tell me who are the other sheep that Jesus said he gather and unite with the flock he already had, and please tell me what is the name of this united flock?

I realize that calling God's people "the church" is the same things as calling them "the congregation" - it really just means a group of people. I think that God's people who believe in Jesus must have a certain identifiable name that God gives to them. I say this because the name "Christian," while it is a name Peter says we should honor, is a name given to us by the world, and not by God Himself.
So please read the passage and tell me what you think about it. The passage is from John chapter 10. Please also tell me, who are the robbers and thieves that Jesus says came before he did, but the sheep did not accept them?
Thanks, yuan








I tell you the truth, the man who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a robber. The man who enters by the gate is the shepherd of his sheep. The watchman opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice. But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger's voice." Jesus used this figure of speech, but they did not understand what he was telling them.


Therefore Jesus said again, "I tell you the truth, I am the gate for the sheep. All who ever came before me were thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not listen to them. I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved. He will come in and go out, and find pasture. The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.

"I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. The hired hand is not the shepherd who owns the sheep. So when he sees the wolf coming, he abandons the sheep and runs away. Then the wolf attacks the flock and scatters it. The man runs away because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep.
"I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me — just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep. I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also.

They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd. The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life — only to take it up again. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father."



I also have one more question - Jesus says that the sheep will never recognize a stranger's voice, but will only recognize the voice of the Master. Would you consider that a promise from Jesus, that His true children will never turn away from following Him?
yuan

[Yuanshen]

I found a website that talks about the passage from 10 John, about the flock of Jesus. This is a passage from it. What do you think? It mentions Judaism and I know that we are not Judaism but I wonder if the information here shows that the flock of Jesus is a brand new flock of sheep with a new Master.




"The unity Christ desires is not a unity of form, but of spirit; not a matter of mechanism, but of vitality. This has been more misunderstood than almost any part of Christianity" (ibid). Part of the problem here, and one reason there has been some confusion for some time, can be laid at the feet of a few inexcusable renderings of John 10:16 in several key translations. The King James Version, for example, has: "And other sheep I have, which are not of this FOLD: them also I must bring, and they shall be one FOLD, and one shepherd." This translation ignores the fact that there are two completely different Greek words being used here in this verse.


Aule --- This is the first word under consideration used in John 10:16. It signifies a fold or pen for sheep, which "was usually surrounded by a stone wall, preferably near a well, and often protected by a tower" (W.E. Vine, Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words). It literally had reference to an "enclosed area" like a courtyard (Exegetical Dictionary of the New Testament, vol. 1, p. 178).
Poimne --- This is the second word under consideration used in John 10:16. It denotes an entire "flock" of sheep. A shepherd with a large flock, for example, may have portions of that flock kept in various folds throughout a large geographical area, yet these various "folds" of sheep still collectively constituted just one "flock."
The teaching of this passage has been gravely confused by such renderings as that found in the KJV where both words are rendered "fold." Indeed, some misguided persons have even appealed to this passage (using the KJV rendering) to try and formulate various false doctrines about the validity and efficacy of non-Christian religions. Many scholars over the years have pointed out the error of the KJV on this verse.

For example, W.E. Vine, in his classic Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words, referred to this rendering as "erroneous." The Pulpit Commentary states, "The translators of the Authorized Version went out of their way to render it 'one fold,' for which there is no justification" (vol. 17). Bemoaning this egregious error, Dr. James Hastings declared, "There is in the original a marked distinction. Two words, absolutely unconnected with each other, are employed" (Dictionary of the New Testament, vol. 1, p. 602). "The second word 'fold' here should really be 'flock.' You see, Judaism was a fold, a circumference without a center, but Christianity is a flock, where we have a center without a circumference. We have no wall about us, but we are gathered about Him, our Good Shepherd" (Dr. H.A. Ironside, Addresses On The Gospel Of John, p. 424).

When our focus is upon Christ Jesus, the walls of isolation and exclusion are broken down. Thus, by looking to Him we can become one in Him. When our focus shifts to one another, however, and to our many differing perceptions, practices and preferences, the inevitable result will be separation of sheep into feuding folds. Thus, the beauty of "one flock" is replaced by the shame of countless "folds" castigating one another with harsh pejoratives (such as: "wolf in sheep's clothing"), each fold claiming to be, exclusively, the "one true flock" on the face of the earth. This is an abomination, and it is past time for such wickedness to cease!


yuan

[Yuanshen]

The whole page about Christ's flock can be found here:

http://www.zianet.com/maxey/reflx57.htm




yuan

[Yuanshen]

Does anyone have any information about the flock of Jesus in the first post?

yuan

[Lulav]

I found a website that talks about the passage from 10 John, about the flock of Jesus. This is a passage from it. What do you think? It mentions Judaism and I know that we are not Judaism but I wonder if the information here shows that the flock of Jesus is a brand new flock of sheep with a new Master.





yuan[/left] This is interesting to note. I don't agree with him wholeheartedly though, sounds like he is accepting of everyone who calls themselves Christian. I think he forgot ( maybe conveniently ) that within the fold there are goats mixed with the sheep just like there are tares among the wheat.

I do believe in one flock, but not everyone in the fold is of the flock, Yeshua said that in other words elsewhere. ;)

[Yuanshen]

This is interesting to note. I don't agree with him wholeheartedly though, sounds like he is accepting of everyone who calls themselves Christian. I think he forgot ( maybe conveniently ) that within the fold there are goats mixed with the sheep just like there are tares among the wheat.

I do believe in one flock, but not everyone in the fold is of the flock, Yeshua said that in other words elsewhere. ;)


I do not know what you mean. Can you show me a scripture so that I can understand?

yuan