Place of worship...necessary?

[Kris10leigh]

Please note: I began this thread by using "place of worship", but I switch into "church" because that's where I go. When I use "church" I really mean any place of worship.

My husband and I were discussing going to church the other day. He goes every Sunday and I go kicking and screaming :ebil: but not every Sunday. I do not agree with the practices of any church I have been to and feel hypocrital when I go. Plus, I have Attention Deficit Disorder and can not pay attention to the sermon to save my life. I try, I really do, but eventually I get lost. Our sermons lately have been ridiculous and pointless. One week the entire sermon was a synopsis of the movie "The Bucket List". I could have read the back of the DVD and have been done with the sermon. So...

DH asked me if I believe churches are necessary. I answered without thinking and said "Yes, I think churches are unnecessary." He was quite shocked by that as any religious person would be. And it made me do some thinking.

I think that for ME, church is unnecessary because I am a self-motivated learner and worshipper. I don't get anything out of going to church and do not crave the fellowship. I get fellowship with my friends. I have NEVER discussed God or Jesus while in the walls of the church (true believe it or not) but do so on a regular basis going about my daily life.

But should churches be done away with? No. I think children should be raised in a place of worship where they learn and are taught cultural values. I think certain elements of faith would be lost if everyone was left to his or her own nature.

Not everyon is self motivated and needs the fellowship of this time together.

Further thoughts?

[A_Pioneer]

Please note: I began this thread by using "place of worship", but I switch into "church" because that's where I go. When I use "church" I really mean any place of worship.

My husband and I were discussing going to church the other day. He goes every Sunday and I go kicking and screaming :ebil: but not every Sunday. I do not agree with the practices of any church I have been to and feel hypocrital when I go. Plus, I have Attention Deficit Disorder and can not pay attention to the sermon to save my life. I try, I really do, but eventually I get lost. Our sermons lately have been ridiculous and pointless. One week the entire sermon was a synopsis of the movie "The Bucket List". I could have read the back of the DVD and have been done with the sermon. So...

DH asked me if I believe churches are necessary. I answered without thinking and said "Yes, I think churches are unnecessary." He was quite shocked by that as any religious person would be. And it made me do some thinking.

I think that for ME, church is unnecessary because I am a self-motivated learner and worshipper. I don't get anything out of going to church and do not crave the fellowship. I get fellowship with my friends. I have NEVER discussed God or Jesus while in the walls of the church (true believe it or not) but do so on a regular basis going about my daily life.

But should churches be done away with? No. I think children should be raised in a place of worship where they learn and are taught cultural values. I think certain elements of faith would be lost if everyone was left to his or her own nature.

Not everyon is self motivated and needs the fellowship of this time together.

Further thoughts?
I find talking directly to someone who shares your belief is stimulating much more than here on a Forum, studying the Parshahs each Sabbath and discussing them with a group opens all the facets and therefore I get more out of my study.
But to each his own. I can't fault your self study, I did the same for several years until the group found me.
I had placed my name on a Lost Sheep List.
I have continued this group study for the past four years, the leader is proposing a move to another town and I will lose my contact and I am very sad!

Shalom

[Kris10leigh]

I guess my trouble is that church is just meaningless to me. I'm in a very protestant area. Around here there is about one Catholic church per city and one Jewish Synagogue per BIG city. It's a search to find Motzah in the grocery story. So...I'm a little lost for study partners.

[ContraMundum]

A place of worship is not necessary- but it is desireable.

Traditional Christianity sees the Church and its liturgy as the proper continuation of the worship of the Temple and the true expression of Hebraic worship in our day. You need a place to do that. I'll be starting a thread on that in the Apostolic Churches forum soon.

[Kris10leigh]

Sure, as long as you can find one that isn't completely caught up in its own politics and legalities. I haven't been successful so far.

I think part of my problem is that my husband has been heavily involved in the churches, and even on staff. Being on staff, he sees things that are very un-Christian. I don't deal well with the political side of things or the mean spirited back talking.

[WailingWall]

I think a place of worship is nessesary. The Word says do not forsake the coming together as some do. That being said i go to no place of worship. There are no churches that believe as i do in this area. It would be SOOOO great to be able to speak to people with my beliefs and to come together and worship the Lord in one place.

[HaReb]

Wow,

If you can't find a place that is truly honouring to G_d, then go to any church/place of worship. maybe you are called to go there and change it with love, teaching and loads of grace. Why on earth do you want a church that only preaches/teaches like you want it to? That isn't going to stretch you, is it? Scripture warns against those who only want to hear what there itching ears want to hear! Be bold, be strong, find a church and work to change it.

[Kris10leigh]

Wow,

Why on earth do you want a church that only preaches/teaches like you want it to? That isn't going to stretch you, is it? Scripture warns against those who only want to hear what there itching ears want to hear!

Whoa, my ears perked up. LOL! I like it when things like that are thrown at me. It makes me think. :scratch:

BUT, I don't want to go to a church that thinks like I do. I don't like to be told what to think. Creeds and so forth. And I want to get something out of the sermon. We church hop sometimes, trying to find a good fit. About a month ago we heard a sermon about the value of not complaining in our lives. I took it to heart and it made a huge difference in my life! That is what I want. Unfortunately we went back the next week and were quite taken back by the worship style.

I don't know about Jewish Synagogues, but Protestant churches vary WIDELY in their worship style. I admit to being one who likes to sit quietly in the back row and soak it all in. I'm very introspective. I think I come across as lively and bold on message boards, but I am actually quite the opposite. In the real world, very few people know how I feel about religion. I let them think what they want based on my actions. It's only here that I lay it all out on the table. Here world! See my soul! :blush:

[HaReb]

I don't like to be told what to think.

Even if it is G_d telling you? Would you know the difference - sometimes he stands our perceptions of Him upside down and inside out! Is worship everything? Is it what you put into it, not what you can get out of it. If you sing the L_rd's praises and hear the Scriptures read then you have been in touch with G_d, even if it's not to your liking.

I can't cope with those who are the 'circulation of the saints'. If you don't like it, join and change it, for the sake of everyone that follows. I'm not in the sort of Church I would like to be in - but it is a challenge to help change the people, and it's beginning to happen, Praise the Lord!

[Chazak]

Hi Kris10leigh,

I've gotta say I do agree with you. We are Torah believing Christians and have had a hard time finding a place of worship - so hard, in fact, that we moved from Virginia to Florida.

In Virginia we were associated with a large church and my son was going to their Christian School. But - as you said, the politics and pointless sermons eventually tired us out. Even our son wanted to leave the school because of all the trouble there, and go on homeschool.

We moved to Florida, we believe with God's blessing, as our home sold in 1 day! We are now visiting different Messianic synagogues trying to find a home. We've also visited churches but lean toward the 'meat' of the teaching we get at the synagogues. But with all the 'programs', parties and busyness it's also hard to get into deeper study. We did stay home the past 2 weeks and feel we got better study and had a better Shabbat.

Like you, we like to sit in the back and let it all wash over us, then buy the tapes of the sermon so we can go over it and learn. We have made acquaintances with some very nice people but have had few discussions about the LORD which shocks us. But we do feel our son needs to see other kids and adults that share our faith so we're going to hang in there and see what we can contribute.

We've also decided that we'll stay home at least once a month to study on our own. It is hard, and we're definately 'lost sheep', but we know that God speaks in the wilderness, so we're praying for His direction and guidance in this new location.

[ozell]

Lev23v1: And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
2: Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts.
3: Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.

Mt 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you

Mt 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

Prov 8:17 I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me.


Prov 28:5 Evil men understand not judgment: but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

[Kris10leigh]

.

I can't cope with those who are the 'circulation of the saints'.

I was with you until here. I feel like that was a bit harsh. I hardly consider myself to be within a "circulation of the saints." I feel inadequate in most everything I do and think which is why I come here frequently asking, more or less, is it ok to think this way? I'm not trying to change anyone's opinion. I'm trying to figure out what my opinion is.

I don't feel as though God has led me to any place of worship, and he certainly hasn't led me to change anyone else. I can't go into a Methodist church and preach about Messianics. Maybe someone stronger could, but I couldn't. I feel like if I have Messianic beliefs, I should find a flock of others who do too. I'm sorry, but what you are asking me to do is not a talent I have.

[Kris10leigh]

Hi Kris10leigh,

I've gotta say I do agree with you. We are Torah believing Christians and have had a hard time finding a place of worship - so hard, in fact, that we moved from Virginia to Florida.

In Virginia we were associated with a large church and my son was going to their Christian School. But - as you said, the politics and pointless sermons eventually tired us out. Even our son wanted to leave the school because of all the trouble there, and go on homeschool.

We moved to Florida, we believe with God's blessing, as our home sold in 1 day! We are now visiting different Messianic synagogues trying to find a home. We've also visited churches but lean toward the 'meat' of the teaching we get at the synagogues. But with all the 'programs', parties and busyness it's also hard to get into deeper study. We did stay home the past 2 weeks and feel we got better study and had a better Shabbat.

Like you, we like to sit in the back and let it all wash over us, then buy the tapes of the sermon so we can go over it and learn. We have made acquaintances with some very nice people but have had few discussions about the LORD which shocks us. But we do feel our son needs to see other kids and adults that share our faith so we're going to hang in there and see what we can contribute.

We've also decided that we'll stay home at least once a month to study on our own. It is hard, and we're definately 'lost sheep', but we know that God speaks in the wilderness, so we're praying for His direction and guidance in this new location.

If my house sold in one day, I'd say that was God's plan too! :thumbsup:

It sounds to me as though you have found a good balance. That's what I'm looking for, but haven't found it yet. Moving isn't an option for us, unfortunately. We're fairly rooted here.

[HaReb]

Kris10Leigh

Sometimes it is good to be challenged - it will make you stop and think and then either confirm that you are right or help you to see another viewpoint!

You did give the impression of going from one to another church all the time and not finding what YOU want - hence my challenge .

[WailingWall]

I don't feel as though God has led me to any place of worship, and he certainly hasn't led me to change anyone else. I can't go into a Methodist church and preach about Messianics. Maybe someone stronger could, but I couldn't. I feel like if I have Messianic beliefs, I should find a flock of others who do too. I'm sorry, but what you are asking me to do is not a talent I have.


I agree. It would do no good to go to a catholic or protestant church and teach messianic beliefs. Maybe you could speak to individuals of these churches and something good might come about. Ya never know. But then again, isnt there a scripture that says to come out from amoung them? Be ye separate.

[A_Pioneer]

The Shabbat is like a fine wine. I tastes good even if you are alone, but if you share it with someone the occasion is more memorable, the conversations lingering past the moment.
Some years back I was on a business trip to Florida, my partner in business insisted I go to Disney World, it was good, interesting and enjoyable, but all the time I wished I could share that time and place and I was at the same time quite sad having no one to share with.

Shalom

[HaReb]

Originally Posted by Kris10leigh http://www3.christianforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=44304369#post44304369)
I don't feel as though God has led me to any place of worship, and he certainly hasn't led me to change anyone else. I can't go into a Methodist church and preach about Messianics. Maybe someone stronger could, but I couldn't. I feel like if I have Messianic beliefs, I should find a flock of others who do too. I'm sorry, but what you are asking me to do is not a talent I have.


More people are converted by someone gently coming alongside and sharing a belief than ever were converted by preaching at them!

[ContraMundum]

Sounds like there's some pretty hungry people out there.

I'm so glad I'm where I am.

[Lulav]

Please note: I began this thread by using "place of worship", but I switch into "church" because that's where I go. When I use "church" I really mean any place of worship.

My husband and I were discussing going to church the other day. He goes every Sunday and I go kicking and screaming :ebil: but not every Sunday. I do not agree with the practices of any church I have been to and feel hypocrital when I go. Plus, I have Attention Deficit Disorder and can not pay attention to the sermon to save my life. I try, I really do, but eventually I get lost. Our sermons lately have been ridiculous and pointless. One week the entire sermon was a synopsis of the movie "The Bucket List". I could have read the back of the DVD and have been done with the sermon. So...

DH asked me if I believe churches are necessary. I answered without thinking and said "Yes, I think churches are unnecessary." He was quite shocked by that as any religious person would be. And it made me do some thinking.

I think that for ME, church is unnecessary because I am a self-motivated learner and worshipper. I don't get anything out of going to church and do not crave the fellowship. I get fellowship with my friends. I have NEVER discussed God or Jesus while in the walls of the church (true believe it or not) but do so on a regular basis going about my daily life.

But should churches be done away with? No. I think children should be raised in a place of worship where they learn and are taught cultural values. I think certain elements of faith would be lost if everyone was left to his or her own nature.

Not everyon is self motivated and needs the fellowship of this time together.

Further thoughts? I think it is sad that those who are entrusted to preach the word of G-d have to resort to secular devices to entertain folks in the pews. There is so much to get out of the Bible one could never live long enough, yet they turn to Babylon ( aka Hollywood) to teach about it. :sigh:

[Lulav]

I find talking directly to someone who shares your belief is stimulating much more than here on a Forum, studying the Parshahs each Sabbath and discussing them with a group opens all the facets and therefore I get more out of my study.
But to each his own. I can't fault your self study, I did the same for several years until the group found me.
I had placed my name on a Lost Sheep List.
I have continued this group study for the past four years, the leader is proposing a move to another town and I will lose my contact and I am very sad!

Shalom Hi Pioneer, what is a Lost sheep list?

A place of worship is not necessary- but it is desireable.

Traditional Christianity sees the Church and its liturgy as the proper continuation of the worship of the Temple and the true expression of Hebraic worship in our day. And most Messianics don't, that is why they aren't in Traditional Christian Churches. :)

I think a place of worship is nessesary. The Word says do not forsake the coming together as some do. That being said i go to no place of worship. There are no churches that believe as i do in this area. It would be SOOOO great to be able to speak to people with my beliefs and to come together and worship the Lord in one place. Some interpret that verse as pertaining to the Torah commands, not the Church gathering or understanding.

Wow,

If you can't find a place that is truly honouring to G_d, then go to any church/place of worship. maybe you are called to go there and change it with love, teaching and loads of grace. Why on earth do you want a church that only preaches/teaches like you want it to? That isn't going to stretch you, is it? Scripture warns against those who only want to hear what there itching ears want to hear! Be bold, be strong, find a church and work to change it.:amen:

Lev23v1: And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
2: Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts.
3: Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.

Mt 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you

Mt 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

Prov 8:17 I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me.


Prov 28:5 Evil men understand not judgment: but they that seek the LORD understand all things.
amen!

More people are converted by someone gently coming alongside and sharing a belief than ever were converted by preaching at them! Amen!

[visionary]

Any gathering can be turned into a time of worship, even in the strangest of places. All it takes is two or three. The Lord blesses those moments with His presence. Once He is there ... your gathering is annointed.

You can have humungous football statium packed orchastrated events and still the Lord only speaks to the few who seek Him.

[ContraMundum]

And most Messianics don't, that is why they aren't in Traditional Christian Churches. :)

That saddens me a little, but I know what you're saying. I suppose to some people chanting the Tehillim in melodies that reach back thousands of years pales in comparison to modern innovations like sponteaneous "Davidic dance"and speaking in tongues when the band changes key.

Horses for courses I suppose....but I'm the conservative type who likes his religion as old as possible. I just can't connect with the new religion stuff. Maybe it's genetic or something. I like deeply religious music as well as peace and quiet, order, serenity, reverance, ritual, connecting with our past and all that Temple era stuff. :)

[ContraMundum]

Any gathering can be turned into a time of worship, even in the strangest of places. All it takes is two or three. The Lord blesses those moments with His presence. Once He is there ... your gathering is annointed.

You can have humungous football statium packed orchastrated events and still the Lord only speaks to the few who seek Him.

This is true. What's more, we connect with the worship of the entire company of Heaven even if we are few! :)

[Ivy]

Hi, Kris10, I'll just throw in my two cents along with everyone else here.

It may sound a little hard-nosed to say, but the foundational idea in choosing a church/synagogue should not be, "What do I like? What suits my taste? What about me?" but rather, "What does God want? What is God's will?"

While it's a good thing to be aware of our own temperament and likes and dislikes--have some self-knowledge--God many times uses situations that don't "feel" like a good fit in order to mold our character. If we're focused on avoiding situations that chafe us in any way, we fall into a shopping mentality, looking for "what I like best."

Many times in my life, I find that what I "like" best is not necessarily the same as *God's best. I need to believe that He has my best at heart more than I do, and let Him focus on giving me the best rather than me trying to figure that out.

My part should be just to want His will.....a lot of confusing questions clear up when I have that settled firmly in my heart.

Hope this helps......it's not very clear, I don't think...sorry......and I hope it does not come across lecture-y or anything, as I'm just sharing really about me & my life & lessons.

[Kris10leigh]

I understand what you are all trying to say. Now I'm wondering if perhaps it isn't just part of the mentality of so many Christians to "shop around" since there is so much to choose from.

I only have my own neck of the woods to compare things to, but around here, there are a small handful of Jewish Synagogues in Cincinnati, one MJ Synagogue and hundreds of churches. So if you were one of the members at the ONE MJ Synagogue, you could be certain you were worshipping with many people with many different opinions. But each of the hundreds of churches tend to have all like minded people within their walls. If you fall outside of the one mind, you are an outsider.

That's where I am. I am the one outside in this sea of like-minded individuals.

It's not all about me and I can see from all these posts that I am coming across that way. But it is about how I feel God is supposed to be worshipped. Many of you would not stay for a minute if you were asked to put up a Christmas tree. That's a crazy example, but I think that's the case. In each place of worship I have tried, I have been asked to do something that I do not agree with...that I do not think God wants me to do. There's my problem. I don't feel as though God has led me to the right place yet. Sometimes I think He is happiest with me when I quietly reflect at home or have a gentle conversation about Him with my boys.

I do not feel God in church. I feel God when I am quietly reflecting and I don't have to be in any special place to do that.

[Ivy]

I can understand what you mean by that. I'm wired similarly, that my big moments of insight and encounter with God usually occur when I'm alone and reading or reflecting or praying.

I think of going to public worship more as a discipline, like spiritual ab exercises, lol. I think of that weekly discipline in a different way than my daily walking with God during the week.

A large part of that discipline, oddly enough, is dealing with all the things that don't match my idea of worship--and there are many things like that where I'm attending--for instance, I really do not like our music at all--in a way that is forbearing & showing the fruits of the Holy Spirit in Gal. 9:22.

Showing those fruits of the Spirit is a powerful act of worship that is more powerful than getting the exact right music or traditions or order....in fact, people become very un-Christlike & not showing the character of Yeshua, over those very issues. In their concern to have right worship, in the process, they don't do the best act of worship, which is to be showing the demeanor of Yeshua through it all. (I'm not talking about you, by the way, just going on & on about things I've observed over the years. ;-)

I'm kind of rambling, but it's myth, I think, that a church that's completely likeminded with you or me even exists. If that's what we're looking for, we will not find it. But with patience & prayer, one thing we can find is God's will. You can be confident that God wants to guide you and that He will guide you in this; just keep going to Him with your thoughts on the whole thing, and He will open up your path for you when it is time.

[ozell]

I think it is sad that those who are entrusted to preach the word of G-d have to resort to secular devices to entertain folks in the pews. There is so much to get out of the Bible one could never live long enough, yet they turn to Babylon ( aka Hollywood) to teach about it. :sigh:

:amen:

they ignore how Jesus did it.

why?

I don't know

Lk 4:16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.

very simple procedure in learning.

[Kris10leigh]

Lk 4:16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.



Do we know what book He was reading from? Was it the Torah? Was the Torah around when Jesus was around? (Stupid question I know...sorry...gotta learn sometime.)

[Kris10leigh]

Ivy, thank you, your post hit home. I'm still digging my heels in a little bit and childishly questioning, "But why..." I think I'll sit on your words a little longer.

[SGM4HIM]

I believe when possible one should seek a corporate setting. Remember Deut 32:30 "one chase a thousand, and two put ten thousand to flight..",
There is a strength worshiping together. When you are weak others can help lift you up etc. Pray for you, be there in times of trouble etc.

I have been a member of Episcopal Church, Conservative Synagogue, and spirit filled independent Churches and guess what?
I didn't agree with everything going on in all of them either but I was able to gain more from this setting than not. And I have made friends closer than many of my family. I have influenced my current church to allow shofars being blown for Ted Pearce meetings and getting groups together for biblical holidays at several Messianic assemblies.

You don't have to be limited in your spiritual walk even if your church is somewhat limited.

Keep searching and you might find an OK place. There are many different types and many sincere people.

[ContraMundum]

Do we know what book He was reading from? Was it the Torah? Was the Torah around when Jesus was around? (Stupid question I know...sorry...gotta learn sometime.)

The Torah was certainly around, but in the account of Luke, Yeshua was reading a portion of scripture from the Prophet Isaiah, and in this part of a synagogue service the reading is referred to as the Haftorah (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haftarah).

Anyway- although Yeshua went to the synagogue on Shabbos, the Church can meet on any day (as do the synagogues- there are prayer services every day- the traditional churches are the same- services daily). The custom of the early Jewish Christians was to meet also on the first day of the week for communion and teaching (Acts 20:7), and this took the form of what we might refer to as a Saturday night service and also Sunday morning and evening services for prayers.

[johnd]

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=44369994#post44369994

See post # 12.

I believe fellowship is beneficial to all (even those of us who from time to time think its not or that we have outgrown it somehow). I think of Stewie on Family Guy (which I can only stomach so much of)... but here is the character of a talking scheming baby that desires to rule the world yet when he falls on his bum he finds surprising comfort in a mother's nurturing kiss.

Why I love this is because THAT is the human condition. And it must be vaccinated against, disciplined towards a more Christ-like goal, in other words we continually need our feet held to the ground and reminded routinely to get over ourselves.

And if nothing else is accomplished in a given weekly service, then it was well worth it!

It's God's kingdom. He designed that it is necessary that we do the routine functions as well as the Mount Sinai events like breathing and eating and you get the point.

Go to Church with your hubby, realize the kicking and screaming would eventually come out even in your "ideal" version of weekly worship service... it's that same old human nature needing to be disciplined again.

[johnd]

Also, I am finding in not only Church / Temple service, in life work and leisure, that it is what you do in addition to the routine is where your heart is. If you deliver wiggits for a living to pay the bills but drive a taxi cab because you love meeting people, eventually you will be able to earn a living driving the hack.

So the discipline I spoke of in going to your husband's church will be in addition to anything Messianic you do "on your own time."

The process also has an attrition effect divulging what we stick with as what we are truly devoted to as opposed to passing fads or ideals in our individual lives.

Is driving the cab or doing the Messianic thing what you would be doing otherwise even if you never get out of the wigit business or if you never stop going to dear hubby's church...?

Food for thought.

[ozell]

Do we know what book He was reading from? Was it the Torah? Was the Torah around when Jesus was around? (Stupid question I know...sorry...gotta learn sometime.)


Jesus read from Isaiah 61 fulfilling the 1st half of prophecy when he came in the flesh.

Isa61v

1: The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;

2: To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;

3: To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified.

Luke4v

14: And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about.

15: And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all.

16: And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

17: And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,

18: The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

19: To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

20: And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.

21: And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.

[Ivy]

Why I love this is because THAT is the human condition. And it must be vaccinated against, disciplined towards a more Christ-like goal, in other words we continually need our feet held to the ground and reminded routinely to get over ourselves.



AY-MENNNNNNN!!!!!! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: Gotta agree with this, it is great practice in being "crucified with Christ."