Which Creed?

[JVAC]

Which Creed do you think should be recited in a Lutheran Mass?

Should we ever try the Athanasian Creed?

[Rechtgläubig]

I don't understand the question JVAC. :scratch:


We recite the Nicene Creed on Communion Sundays and the Apostle's Creed on non-Communion Sundays. Some of our churches recite the Athanasian Creed on Trinity Sundays so to answer that question, yeah I think we should recite it.

[JVAC]

There is always a either the Apostle's Creed or the Nicene Creed recited after the Sermon in Lutheran Liturgy, generally the Apostle's Creed is recited on regular days, while the Nicene Creed is recited on Festival days and other special commemorations.

My Question is which one would you prefer said, during the standard Lutheran Liturgy? That is a regular communion Sunday. Clear as Mud ;)?

-James

[Rechtgläubig]

OK that whole "mass" thing threw me off. :P

I prefer the Nicene. :D

[JVAC]

OK that whole "mass" thing threw me off. :P

I prefer the Nicene. :DSorry, I don't know what else to call it, I think calling it "Worship" is too liberal :D

-James

[Rechtgläubig]

Sorry, I don't know what else to call it, I think calling it "Worship" is to liberal :D

-James
I am not a http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4_3_5.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001) liberal!


LOL :D

[JVAC]

I am not a http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4_3_5.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001) liberal!


LOL :D
Muahahahahahahaha

*James stopped breathing*

-James

[ByzantineDixie]

I think the Athanasian creed should be said more often. We usually bring it out for Trinity Sunday but its a goody and needs to be said more so that folks keep their undertstanding of the Trinity crystallized.

Peace

Rose

[ChiRho]

We state the Nicene Creed every Sunday....

ChiRho

[ChiRho]

I think the Athanasian creed should be said more often. We usually bring it out for Trinity Sunday but its a goody and needs to be said more so that folks keep their undertstanding of the Trinity crystallized.

Peace

Rose

Agree

Pax Christi,

ChiRho

[Ponder]

wat are booth creeds

[ByzantineDixie]

Here ya go, Ponder. I added the third creed, the Athanasian, just because I like that one too! Lutherans ascribe to all three of these creeds but generally limit stating only the Nicene or the Apostles in our services. -----R

The Apostles' Creed

I believe in God the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth.

And in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord; who was conceived by the Holy Ghost, born of the Virgin Mary; suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, dead, and buried; He descended into hell; the third day He rose again from the dead; He ascended into heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty; from thence He shall come to judge the quick and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Ghost; the holy catholic* Church, the communion of saints; the forgiveness of sins; the resurrection of the body; and the life everlasting. Amen.

* catholic means "universal" and is not a reference to the Roman Catholic Church.

The Nicene Creed

I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds, God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father; by whom all things were made; who for us men, and for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Ghost of the Virgin Mary, and was made man, and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate; He suffered and was buried; and the third day He rose again according to the Scriptures; and ascended into heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of the Father; and He shall come again with glory to judge the quick and the dead; whose kingdom shall have no end.

And I believe in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of life, who proceedeth from the Father and the Son; who with the Father and the Son together is worshiped and glorified; who spake by the Prophets. And I believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.I acknowledge one Baptism for the remission of sins; and I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.



The Athanasian Creed

Written against the Arians.

Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith. Which faith except every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly.

And the catholic faith is this, that we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; Neither confounding the Persons, nor dividing the Substance. For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Ghost. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost is all one: the glory equal, the majesty coeternal. Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Ghost. The Father uncreate, the Son uncreate, and the Holy Ghost uncreate. The Father incomprehensible, the Son incomprehensible, and the Holy Ghost incomprehensible. The Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Ghost eternal. And yet they are not three Eternals, but one Eternal. As there are not three Uncreated nor three Incomprehensibles, but one Uncreated and one Incomprehensible. So likewise the Father is almighty, the Son almighty, and the Holy Ghost almighty. And yet they are not three Almighties, but one Almighty. So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not three Gods, but one God. So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Ghost Lord. And yet not three Lords, but one Lord. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every Person by Himself to be God and Lord, So are we forbidden by the catholic religion to say, There be three Gods, or three Lords.

The Father is made of none: neither created nor begotten. The Son is of the Father alone; not made, nor created, but begotten. The Holy Ghost is of the Father and of the Son: neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding. So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Ghost, not three Holy Ghosts. And in this Trinity none is before or after other; none is greater or less than another; But the whole three Persons are coeternal together, and coequal: so that in all things, as is aforesaid, the Unity in Trinity and the Trinity in Unity is to be worshiped. He, therefore, that will be saved must thus think of the Trinity.

Furthermore, it is necessary to everlasting salvation that he also believe faithfully the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ. For the right faith is, that we believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and Man; God of the Substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds; and Man of the substance of His mother, born in the world; Perfect God and perfect Man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting. Equal to the Father as touching His Godhead, and inferior to the Father as touching His manhood; Who, although He be God and Man, yet He is not two, but one Christ: One, not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh, but by taking the manhood into God; One altogether; not by confusion of Substance, but by unity of Person. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man, so God and Man is one Christ; Who suffered for our salvation; descended into hell, rose again the third day from the dead; He ascended into heaven; He sitteth on the right hand of the Father, God Almighty; from whence He shall come to judge the quick and the dead. At whose coming all men shall rise again with their bodies, and shall give an account of their own works. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting; and they that have done evil, into everlasting fire.

This is the catholic faith; which except a man believe faithfully and firmly, he cannot be saved.

[SPALATIN]

I could see doing the Athanasian Creed more than once a year but not every sunday. While it is more concise than both Apostles and Nicene it is also very redundant. I think that the Nicene creed is more appropriate for every Sunday or like it is now. Apostles creed on Sundays with no communion.

[ChiRho]

I could see doing the Athanasian Creed more than once a year but not every sunday. While it is more concise than both Apostles and Nicene it is also very redundant. I think that the Nicene creed is more appropriate for every Sunday or like it is now. Apostles creed on Sundays with no communion.

Sundays with no Holy Communion?...Are you a Methodist? ;) :P :D

Pax Christi,

ChiRho

[SPALATIN]

Sundays with no Holy Communion?...Are you a Methodist?

Pax Christi,

ChiRho
No,

I mean do the Apostles creed only on Sundays with no Communion. I would rather see Communion every Sunday though as I really enjoy the Nicene creed more.

Scott

[Lotar]

Many churches have communion twice a month. Personally, I believe it should be celebrated every Sunday. After all, the early church did every time they met.

On the OP, I don't think any of the three creeds should be ignored.

[ChiRho]

Many churches have communion twice a month. Personally, I believe it should be celebrated every Sunday. After all, the early church did every time they met.

On the OP, I don't think any of the three creeds should be ignored.

I hope you guys realize I was kidding!

[Lotar]

No, you were serious, and now we're ****ed at you :P

[ChiRho]

No, you were serious, and now we're ****ed at you :P

Spoken like a true socialist. :P

[Phoebe]

LOL
I don't recall ever reciting the Athanasian, but I'm ELCA.
Oops. Make that ECA.
:P

[ByzantineDixie]

Oops. Make that ECA.
:P

STOP IT!!! I don't think it's safe for me to laugh this hard! Anyone ever have a heart attack from laughing too hard???

Love ya

Rose

[Breetai]

We recite the Nicene Creed on Communion Sundays and the Apostle's Creed on non-Communion Sundays. Some of our churches recite the Athanasian Creed on Trinity Sundays so to answer that question, yeah I think we should recite it.

That's what I'm used to. I would like the Ananasian Creed to be recited a little more often as well. At least once every quarter.

[Phoebe]

STOP IT!!! I don't think it's safe for me to laugh this hard! Anyone ever have a heart attack from laughing too hard???

Love ya

Rose
I'll bet you could hyperventilate. I think a heart attack might be pushing it, unless, of course, there is a family history of "died laughing syndrome."

[JVAC]

That's what I'm used to. I would like the Ananasian Creed to be recited a little more often as well. At least once every quarter.
LOL, you can say the Athanasian Creed in Mass as often as the Presbyterians celebrate the Eucharist.

-James

[filosofer]

Many churches have communion twice a month. Personally, I believe it should be celebrated every Sunday. After all, the early church did every time they met.


And so the Confessions indicate - "every Sunday and every festival".

In the churches I have served as pastor, after teaching adult instruction classes (~20-25 weeks) for 2-3 cycles, with many members attending as well, the congregation members begin asking "why can't we have it every week?" "We want it every Sunday!" So we move in that direction, not by insistence, nor by dictate, but rather by request. For those who were not fully in favor, I pointed out that they could still have the LS every other Sunday. ;)

Historically, the p. 5 order of service in TLH was not the "usual Sunday service" because it didn't offer the LS.

[JVAC]

So we move in that direction, not by insistence, nor by dictate, but rather by request. For those who were not fully in favor, I pointed out that they could still have the LS every other Sunday. ;)

Some people think resisted our transition to every sunday because they thought that some people would start to talk if they saw them not go to the Altar. :rolleyes:

-James

[ByzantineDixie]

I was on the Pastor call committee for our church a few years ago and what I found interesting was that every single pastor whose documents we looked at, who we talked too, schooled at STL or FW, old or young, conservative or very conservative everyone without fail supported a weekly celebration of the Lord's Supper.

We did find a very, very few who qualified their opinion with "so long as the congregation wants to do this".

Our new pastor came and instituted weekly communion and also instituted a midweek service with communion. I can't tell you what the last couple of years have meant to me. If I miss a service because I am traveling...its like fasting.

Fortunately in our congregation the only ones who initially complained were the altar guild ladies and the elders whose budget was impacted ;) ...but the complaints were shortlived because the benefits were quickly realized.

Filosofer...your method, while a bit slower, was certainly well crafted (OK--even a bit sly!). Those people who determined from their studies the benefits of weekly communion will never be satisfied with anything less.

I think a lot of Lutheran churches are moving to weekly celebrations of the Lord's Supper...we are more fortunate than our parents or grandparents as the case may be.

Love

Rose