This Rock?

[visionary]

"And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." Mat. 16:13-21

This rock?

Is it a reference to Peter himself?
Is it a reference to the type of man Peter was?
Is it a reference to the knowledge that Yeshua is the Anointed One?
Is it the stumbling stone?


It makes a big difference on how you view this rock?

[visionary]

Maybe I cut the verse off too soon..

and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven" - v.18-19

Aren't such parenthetical phrases common in Hebrew?

"This [is] my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised. And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you" - Gen. 17:10-11

Let us accept then that the "keys of the kingdom of heaven" are the authoritative keys used in establishing halakhot (religio-legal rulings) for "Binding" and "Loosing". If that be the case, then those who are called out have as their bedrock the keys with which they can withstand the legal assualts of the judiciaries of the "gates/courts of Hell."

Do we not have the whole armor of God? Do we not have the sword of the spirit?
Do we not have the vistory which is in Yeshua, our Lord?

[visionary]

Let's think about the Peter aspect for a moment...

Peter, by virtue of being given the "keys of Jesus' kingdom", was the Prime Minister.

According to Wikipedia:
In many systems the Prime Minister selects and can dismiss other members of the cabinet, and allocates posts to members within the Government. In most systems they are the presiding member and chairperson of the cabinet.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_Minister

The Prime Minister is the "First Minister" of all those ministers who make up the Privy Council to the monarch:

A privy council is a body that advises the head of state of a nation, typically in a monarchy. The word "privy" means "private" or "secret" thus a privy council was originally a committee of the monarch's closest advisors to give confidential advice on affairs of state.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privy_council

We see this in Acts 15, where Peter heads the Halakhic discussion amongst the Council, until James issues the Royal Decree.

[visionary]

Or maybe....

Doing a Strong's search on the Hebrew words for "gate" and "YHWH" reveals many passages that talk about the "gates of the House of YHWH".

This means, the gates of the Temple of YHWH.

In Matt 16, the Messiah says, "upon this rock I will found my Temple" (in essence).

[christianmomof3]

"And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." Mat. 16:13-21

This rock?

Is it a reference to Peter himself?
Is it a reference to the type of man Peter was?
Is it a reference to the knowledge that Yeshua is the Anointed One?
Is it the stumbling stone?


It makes a big difference on how you view this rock?
Here are the verses preceeding that one.
13 Now when Jesus came into the parts of Caesarea Philippi, He asked His disciples, saying, Who do men say that the Son of Man is?
14 And they said, Some, John the Baptist; and others, Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.
15 He said to them, But you, who do you say that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said to him, Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in the heavens.
18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it. http://online.recoveryversion.org/


This rock refers to Christ and also to this revelation concerning Christ - that Jesus is the Christ, a revelation that Peter received from the Father. The church is built on Christ and on this revelation concerning Christ.

[ozell]

"And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." Mat. 16:13-21

This rock?

Is it a reference to Peter himself?
Is it a reference to the type of man Peter was?
Is it a reference to the knowledge that Yeshua is the Anointed One?
Is it the stumbling stone?


It makes a big difference on how you view this rock?


Ps 18:2 The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; my God, my strength, in whom I will trust; my buckler, and the horn of my salvation, and my high tower.

Deut32v3: Because I will publish the name of the LORD: ascribe ye greatness unto our God.
4: He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he

15 But Jeshurun waxed fat, and kicked: thou art waxen fat, thou art grown thick, thou art covered with fatness; then he forsook God which made him, and lightly esteemed the Rock of his salvation.

Jesus is the Rock, Jesus is the saviour.

[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

"And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." Mat. 16:13-21

This rock?

Is it a reference to Peter himself?
Is it a reference to the type of man Peter was?
Is it a reference to the knowledge that Yeshua is the Anointed One?
Is it the stumbling stone?


It makes a big difference on how you view this rock? The translation is not correct. The name Peter means "Rock," Yahwah is also call a "Rock," and Jesus is called a "Stone." Mat 16:16. Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."

17Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. 18And I tell you that you are Peter, and(but) on(upon) this (that) rock (Rock) I (you)will build my church, and the gates of Hades(grave) will not overcome it. 19I will give you (plural) the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you (plural) bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you (plural) loose on earth will be loosed in heaven." 20Then he warned his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Christ.

It is God who is the Rock that Jesus is speaking about. Jesus did not come into this world to be worshipped by Mankind, but to glorify the Father. The scripture was changed to give glory to the Catholic Church.

[visionary]

Peter's name means pebble.

[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

Peter's name means pebble. My Holman Bible Dictionary says "Rock." Even if it is wrong, do you see what I'm saying?

[visionary]

Yep, classic responses.

[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

Ps 18:2 The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; my God, my strength, in whom I will trust; my buckler, and the horn of my salvation, and my high tower.

Deut32v3: Because I will publish the name of the LORD: ascribe ye greatness unto our God.
4: He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he

15 But Jeshurun waxed fat, and kicked: thou art waxen fat, thou art grown thick, thou art covered with fatness; then he forsook God which made him, and lightly esteemed the Rock of his salvation.

Jesus is the Rock, Jesus is the saviour. Ps 18:2. = Yahwah. Deut 32:3. = Yahwah. And 15. = God's Spirit. I have never found any place in scripture where Jesus said he was Yahwah

[visionary]

Not even Isaiah... the everlasting Father.

[visionary]

According to John 5:18, Jesus Christ was accused of making himself "equal" (Isos, G02470) with God. Hebrew cognate of Isos is Ta'am (H08382). (For example, see Ex 26:24, Ex 36:29.) Ta'am means "joined / coupled".

In a culture where only the High Priest would utter the Holy Name but once a year, Yeshua proclaimed his intimate relationship with the Heavenly Father. This was the "scandal" described in John 5:18

[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

Not even Isaiah... the everlasting Father. In regards to Isaiah 9:6. The placement of the comma's are a matter of opinion, because biblical Hebrew does not have them. This is how it should read: Isaiah 9:6.
For unto us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be upon his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor of the Mighty God and Everlasting Father, leading in Peace.

[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

According to John 5:18, Jesus Christ was accused of making himself "equal" (Isos, G02470) with God. Hebrew cognate of Isos is Ta'am (H08382). (For example, see Ex 26:24, Ex 36:29.) Ta'am means "joined / coupled".

In a culture where only the High Priest would utter the Holy Name but once a year, Yeshua proclaimed his intimate relationship with the Heavenly Father. This was the "scandal" described in John 5:18 Jesus was asked if he was The Son of God, and in one place he answered "yes." But our scripture also say that there will be unity between the two. And again scripture also says that he will appear as (like) God. And there you have it, a perfect formula to confuse the humans. ^_^

[ozell]

Ps 18:2. = Yahwah. Deut 32:3. = Yahwah. And 15. = God's Spirit. I have never found any place in scripture where Jesus said he was Yahwah



you find in the bible that Jesus said no one has heard the Father's voice or seen his shape.

Jn 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

so we have a God that man has NOT heard or seen.

In the Scriptures of truth we have a God that 73 elders have seen and a nation that has heard God's voice.

what is the name of the God that man has neither heard nor has seen?

what is the name of the God that man has seen and Heard?

Solomon asked this question

Prov 30:4 Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?

[ozell]

Not even Isaiah... the everlasting Father.


This can only fit one of the God head.

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

but there is a God who Jesus addressed as the Father

and he said No man has seen this God called Father
and NO man has seen this God called Father.

who is the God who has dealt with man?
who is the God that refer to man as his children, sheep
etc?

Jn 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

There is only one God that has dealt with man who can be considered our Father because of Jesus statement.

It can't be the Father Jesus refer to because we have never dealt with the Father.

Yet, Jesus told us to pray to the Father and address the Father as OUR FATHER.

Mt 6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

Jesus could not be speaking of himself for he was not in heaven at that time.

something to consider

when will the Father really be consider our Father?

Heb 12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

Look what else Jesus said

Jn 4:21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.

not at that mountain or at Jerusalem shall we worship the Father.

also Jesus said

Jn 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.


When Jesus said this he was not a spirit but flesh.

[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

you find in the bible that Jesus said no one has heard the Father's voice or seen his shape.

Jn 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

so we have a God that man has NOT heard or seen.

In the Scriptures of truth we have a God that 73 elders have seen and a nation that has heard God's voice.

what is the name of the God that man has neither heard nor has seen?

what is the name of the God that man has seen and Heard?

Solomon asked this question

Prov 30:4 Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell? You made a boo boo. Jesus said: you have not seen or heared. He did not say "no one." Moses saw His form and heared His voice.

[Jim47]

Thread closed for staff discussion.