Trying to see if I fit in...

[Kris10leigh]

I've been doing a lot of past reading in the forum and am coming across a lot of posts that are in direct conflict with who I am. It's not that I believe anything MJ's on this forum are doing is wrong, it's that MJ's here seem to think my beliefs are wrong. (And NO ONE has directly told me that! Everyone has been so very kind to me!!)

(I just re-wrote that top paragraph about 10 times. I'm struggling here.) :scratch:

If I may...

I am a Christian who does not denounce any of my upbringing (though I am the odd duck in my own church who doesn't believe in the "T" word, but that's a different story. ;) ) I don't want to take away from my current Christians beliefs. My intention is to ADD to what I already believe.

I suppose mostly I am talking about holidays. I don't want to take away the Christian holidays, I want to ADD the Jewish ones.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I am under the impression that there are Messianic Jews, coming from a Messianic Jewish background. There are also Messianic Christians, coming from a Christian background. Obviously I fall into the latter. In the real world, there are NO Messianic Christian places of worship where I live. There is ONE MJ synagogue 45 minutes away. I have been told that I would be treated as an outsider there. I was hoping I could find a place of like-minded people on line.

I LOVE learning from the MJ side of things. I am struggling with being constantly afraid that I might offend someone when talking about the holidays I hold dear. So I'm wondering... am I in the right place? Do any in this forum share my beliefs or am I the lone ranger? :o

One last thing and then I'll stop rambling, because I think this is really my point. It's ok if I am the lone ranger. I'm not trying to change what this forum is!! I'm trying to figure out if I belong anywhere, real world or otherwise. Holding strong to powerful beliefs can be a lonely road, but God seems to be leading me somewhere.

[visionary]

This spot is probably the best fit for you. This is the "Christian" messianic where the blend of keeping both feasts (more or less) is handled in real life. You will find many of us here in all different stages of keeping and not keeping all holidays.... . So as posters add to this thread, you will see that each will be expressing where they are at, and what they are trying to do regarding this subject.... much like you are. So welcome home, prodical child. Lu 15:20 And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him. God loves you.

[christianmomof3]

:hug: I don't know the answer.
I am not even sure if I am welcome here but I have been hanging out here anyway.
I don't fit into any neat category either.
I welcome you and enjoy your presence here.
Keep pursuing Christ and growing in His life and following His leading.:prayer:

[zaksmummy]

Ditto to both of the above.

Catrin xx

[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

I am a Judaeo Christian, perhaps the only one on Christian Forums. What we have here is an odd bunch. That being so, I would say that we are most likly to learn more because of it.:wave:

[HeatherMicaela]

I would call myself a Messianic Gentile, and while I avoid the word "Christian" since there are many things that have been and still are done under that name that are definitely not Christ-like. But I have no problem with sunday-going church goers, those that observer easter and christmas, etc. I do think that the church as a whole is missing something that messianics get.

So I dont think you have to denounce CHristianity and all of church history to be messianic.

[Kris10leigh]

I agree with absolutely everything you all just said! :thumbsup: Thanks for the encouragement.

HeatherMicaela, I have never thought of myself as a "gentile" because, well golly, it's used as if it's deragatory. I think the word by definition simply means "not Jewish" but when people I know use the word it's whispered. "We're all *gentiles*," whispered, you know.

Michael, what would be the difference between Messianic and Judaeo Christian? I like that you said we are likely to learn more because of the degree of difference among us. I find there isn't much discussion when everyone is in agreement.

Christianmom, I'm not sure why I want to fit into a nice neat category, but for some reason I do. Crazy isn't it?

Visionary, I rather like the scripture you quoted for me! :D I feel like that's where I am.

And Zaksmummy...:wave: Thank you! ^_^

[A_Pioneer]

Welcome Kris10Leigh,
I will not echo what has been said here, but to say if you can do what Sha'ul says can't be done, be our quest.
In Sha'uls eyes he thinks one should put the past behind us and become a new ceature, Holy and clean and to touch no unclean thing.
I was reared with the pagan Christian holidays and was convicted that you can not walk in the footsteps of Yeshua and Sha'ul and continue to participate with pagan practices.

So I invite you to come all the way to the Way and give up all unholy days. The Moedim. Appointed times of - - - Y H V H -- are the only Holy Days.
But I do not condemn you for your views, only pray you come all the way to the whole Truth! Torah the Living Word.

Shalom

[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

I agree with absolutely everything you all just said! :thumbsup: Thanks for the encouragement.

HeatherMicaela, I have never thought of myself as a "gentile" because, well golly, it's used as if it's deragatory. I think the word by definition simply means "not Jewish" but when people I know use the word it's whispered. "We're all *gentiles*," whispered, you know.

Michael, what would be the difference between Messianic and Judaeo Christian? I like that you said we are likely to learn more because of the degree of difference among us. I find there isn't much discussion when everyone is in agreement.

Christianmom, I'm not sure why I want to fit into a nice neat category, but for some reason I do. Crazy isn't it?

Visionary, I rather like the scripture you quoted for me! :D I feel like that's where I am.

And Zaksmummy...:wave: Thank you! ^_^ The Messianics are a more varying group in what they believe. Judaeo Christian is a modern term for Judaizers. Originally Judaizing Christians were Anti Sunday Sabbath, Anti Trinitarian, Anti Paganism, and Anti Gnosticism. Throughout history they were hated by both Roman Catholics and Protestant Christians. Because it was the death penalty to be found a Judaeo Christian they would go to each others home for church service. The modern term Judaeo or Judeo is used in place of the word Judaic which mean, pertaining to Judaism. Judaeo Christians believe that in the New Covenant, that the commandments of God have not been done away with.

[Henaynei]

late to the party, as usual, dat's me ;)

Kris, I think you'll find that each and *everyone* of the folks on this board are uniquely a "different sort," if you will.... we're all good eggs, but...

there's the robin's egg - pretty turquoise with spots, and the wren's egg - brownish and smaller, and the quail's egg - much smaller and also rather pretty - comes in various colors, and the ostrich egg - creamy white and can't be broken with a rock, and the hummingbird egg - tiny and beautifully delicate, and the occasional turtle egg - leathery and delicate at the same time, and on and on - no two exactly the same if you set them side by side, yet all making up a rather lovely and interesting Basket of Eggs.....

do any of us fit here??? where else would we go TO fit in ;) ???

[christianmomof3]

some eggs are cracked and some are scrambled, some are fried and some are poached....:D

[Henaynei]

some eggs are cracked and some are scrambled, some are fried and some are poached....:D me? I was a stand in for that famous egg in the 1970's anti-drug commercials ("this is your brain, this is your brain on drugs.... any questions?") I sure looked good out in the middle of that asphalt road ;) but ever since my family has called me "that long runny egg" ;)
http://archives.cnn.com/2000/fyi/student.bureau/12/06/brain.on.drugs/story.fried.eggs.jpg
there I am!!
My biggest Hollywood moment...!

[Kris10leigh]

Henaynei, I love the egg metaphore! That was lovely, thank you!

[HadassahSukkot]

LOL Henny! :D

Basically what she said. :D

I attended a congregation that was 45 minutes from me (from work and from home -- which were in two opposite directions), and we had all types. Folks in church that weren't looking to change who were coming to investigate us, folks from the neighboring shuls coming to check us out, folks from the local Christian college who were taking the comparative religion course (Some who stayed, others that came to the obligatory 2 services to ask questions), SDA folks who came off and on for a year or so... folks from the churches we did teaching seders at.. Folks from the community who had been with the congregation 20+ years from the 'We need to start something new for our needs' beginning to the beginning to really dig into Torah stage, their kids/grandkids, and others who joined in process who were either Messianic Jews or just "messianic".

The way I was raised was to believe the whole of Scripture, and to let go of the pagan things. The more my parents investigated the holidays and the more we moved around overseas and in the US, the more I saw of things I needed to be ready to let go of. As a natural progression I went back to basically the way my great-great grandparents on my dad's side worshipped, with the major difference being that I wasn't in a sunday church, I was in a MJ congregation on the Sabbaths.

My mom's side of the family doesn't get it, but I think my step-uncle and his family and my dad's stepmom do. It was just a natural progression of being brought up in Scripture and my figuring out that we were never shown any other holiday related traditions outside of scripture.

Each family does it differently and some are more observant than others. We come in many flavors as we're all coming from many backgrounds... we're like the rainbow of colors in Joseph's coat.

[judahsgem]

I think I fall under the cracked...hmm..or maybe scrambled egg...LOL!!

[christianmomof3]

The Messianics are a more varying group in what they believe. Judaeo Christian is a modern term for Judaizers. Originally Judaizing Christians were Anti Sunday Sabbath, Anti Trinitarian, Anti Paganism, and Anti Gnosticism. Throughout history they were hated by both Roman Catholics and Protestant Christians. Because it was the death penalty to be found a Judaeo Christian they would go to each others home for church service. The modern term Judaeo or Judeo is used in place of the word Judaic which mean, pertaining to Judaism. Judaeo Christians believe that in the New Covenant, that the commandments of God have not been done away with.
Perhaps you have a different understanding of Judaizer than I do.
It is my understanding that the Judaizers were not believers.
It is my understanding that the Judaizers considered that the ordinances of the law were above Christ. They were those who kept the law and were apart from Christ. They had confidence in their flesh, not in their spirit which is where the Lord dwells in those of us who are regenerated.
That is why Paul said
Philippians (http://online.recoveryversion.org/outlines.asp?bookid=50) 3 (http://online.recoveryversion.org/chapters.asp?cid=177) : 8 (http://online.recoveryversion.org/verses.asp?fvid=6285)
But moreover I also count all things to be loss on account of the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, on account of whom I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as refuse that I may gain Christ
The things that Paul was counting as loss and refuse (the word there is dung I believe), were the Jewish heritage and education that he had received. He did not mean that they were totally worthless, but that without Christ they were worthless. What is important is Christ and without Him, the rest is just refuse or dung.

[Henaynei]

not exactly CMO3,

while the term shows up nowhere in scripture this is who they were:

they were Jewish Believers who in sincerity were trying to bring the influx of non-Jewish believers into full standing with HaShem as they understood it...

up to this time ALL gentiles who wanted to have the full standing with HaShem as did Israel *had* to take on the full cloak of the Law.... nothing new or wrong with that!!!

BUT - the revelation given Shaul and Yaacov and the Elders was that the *full* cloak of the law was not needful, necessary or even appropriate for all non-Jewish believers - they all could still have a full relationship with HaShem without it through the sacrifice of Yeshua.

These were earnest and honest and g-dly Jewish Believers who had come from Jerusalem to help the believing Gentiles "complete" their journey into the Kingdom of HaShem.... but their understanding was incomplete...

You must remember that up to this very moment ONLY those who were or had become Jews (that is, had willingly taken on the yoke of Torah) were part of the Kingdom of G-d. But these g-dly men had forgotten an important prophesy.... we'll get to that a bit later.. ;)

the gentile believer, by and large, had come from a faith culture where one earned favor with their particular god through actions - with or without heart... the only way to to earn favor with their gods was through these actions

however it had *never* been so with HaShem - actions, motivated and accompanied by right heart attitude, were only the **sign* of having achieved a living relationship with HaShem, NOT the path to that relationship....

the believing Gentiles would be (and today still are), by and large, unable to approach the full Torah without falling into the pit of *earning* their salvation through obedience/actions and thus actually **cancelling** their salvation.... this is what Shaul was fighting....


gentile believers need only, but must, keep the 4 laws laid out by the Jerusalem Consul: abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality.

the believing gentiles meet with the believing Jews in shul every Shabbat (where else, nu?) and heard Torah read every Shabbat. IF HaShem motivated their hearts to do so they did have access to learning more about the Law.... but very few would be so led.... and to do so was totally unnecessary to their salvation in HaShem.

Acts 15

1 But some men came down from Y'hudah to Antioch and began teaching the brothers, "You can't be saved unless you undergo b'rit-milah in the manner prescribed by Moshe." (that is, take on the cloak of Torah) 2 This brought them into no small measure of discord and dispute with Sha'ul and Bar-Nabba. So the (Antioch)congregation (the *first* gentile congregation) assigned Sha'ul, Bar-Nabba and some of themselves to go and put this sh'eilah before the emissaries and the elders up in Yerushalayim.

3 After being sent off by the congregation, they made their way through Phoenicia and Shomron, recounting in detail how the Gentiles had turned to G-d; and this news brought great joy to all the brothers. 4 On arrival in Yerushalayim, they were welcomed by the Messianic community, including the emissaries and the elders; and they reported what G-d had done through them. 5 But some of those who had come to trust were from the party of the P'rushim (knowledgeable in the Torah)[theses were Believers!! J); and they stood up and said, "It is necessary to circumcise them and direct them to observe the Torah of Moshe."

6 The emissaries and the elders met to look into this matter. 7 After lengthy debate, Kefa got up and said to them, "Brothers, you yourselves know that a good while back, G-d chose me from among you to be the one by whose mouth the Goyim should hear the message of the Good News and come to trust. 8 And G-d, who knows the heart, bore them (the first gentile believers) witness by giving the Ruach HaKodesh to them, just as he did to us; 9 that is, he made no distinction between us and them, but cleansed their heart by trust. 10 So why are you putting G-d to the test now by placing a yoke on the neck of the talmidim which neither our fathers nor we have had the strength to bear? 11 No, it is through the love and kindness of the L-rd Yeshua that we (Jews) trust and are delivered-and it's the same with them (the gentiles)." 12 Then the whole assembly kept still as they listened to Bar-Nabba and Sha'ul tell what signs and miracles G-d had done through them among the Gentiles. 13 Ya'akov broke the silence to reply. "Brothers," he said, "hear what I have to say. 14 Shim'on has told in detail what G-d did when he first began to show his concern for taking from among the Goyim a people to bear his name. 15 And the words of the Prophets are in complete harmony with this for it is written, 16 '"After this, I will return; and I will rebuild the fallen tent of David. I will rebuild its ruins, I will restore it, 17 so that the rest of mankind may seek the L-rd, that is, all the Goyim who have been called by my name," 18 says AD-NAI, who is doing these things.' All this has been known for ages. 19 "Therefore, my opinion is that we should not put obstacles in the way of the Goyim who are turning to G-d. 20 Instead, we should write them a letter telling them to abstain from things polluted by idols, from fornication, from what is strangled and from blood. 21 For from the earliest times, Moshe has had in every city those who proclaim him, with his words being read in the synagogues every Shabbat."
22 Then the emissaries and the elders, together with the whole Messianic community, decided to select men from among themselves to send to Antioch with Sha'ul and Bar-Nabba. They sent Y'hudah, called Bar-Sabba, and Sila, both leading men among the brothers, 23 with the following letter:
From: The emissaries and the elders, your brothers
To: The brothers from among the Gentiles throughout Antioch, Syria and Cilicia:
Greetings! 24 We have heard that some people went out from among us without our authorization, and that they have upset you with their talk, unsettling your minds. 25 So we have decided unanimously to select men and send them to you with our dear friends Bar-Nabba and Sha'ul, 26 who have dedicated their lives to upholding the name of our L-rd, Yeshua the Messiah. 27 So we have sent Y'hudah and Sila, and they will confirm in person what we are writing. 28 For it seemed good to the Ruach HaKodesh and to us not to lay any heavier burden on you than the following requirements: 29 to abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from fornication. If you keep yourselves from these, you will be doing the right thing. Shalom! 30 The messengers were sent off and went to Antioch, where they gathered the group together and delivered the letter.

[simchat_torah]

No one fits in anywhere. We merely shove our way into a spot. Make your place in the world ;)

[ContraMundum]

I'm a Messianic Jew/Hebrew Christian/"completed Jew/whatever. Born and raised Jewish and found the Messiah but not attending a "Messianic" denomination because I'm called and committed to another tradition- and I keep my commitments (well, mostly! LOL).

I hope you don't feel like you don't fit in. We all feel like that from time to time. Everyone here has a different story and although we sometimes fight, we fight like family and not like enemies- we argue in love and we always make up.

Welcome!

[Tishri1]

Your welcome here hun whether you feel like you fit in or not at all we dont mind:wave::hug::hug::hug::hug:

[johnd]

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

I realize the point of the OP was a bit more focused than this, but the point I am making here is that as long as you fit the criteria God sets forth, where you fit in or not according to man's criteria really doesn't matter. The older we get in the Lord and in life the more (hopefully) we realize this.

Just follow the Lord's plan, seek the Lord's approval, and he will make your paths straight (fit in). In other words, Welcome!

[Lulav]

late to the party, as usual, dat's me ;)

Kris, I think you'll find that each and *everyone* of the folks on this board are uniquely a "different sort," if you will.... we're all good eggs, but...

there's the robin's egg - pretty turquoise with spots, and the wren's egg - brownish and smaller, and the quail's egg - much smaller and also rather pretty - comes in various colors, and the ostrich egg - creamy white and can't be broken with a rock, and the hummingbird egg - tiny and beautifully delicate, and the occasional turtle egg - leathery and delicate at the same time, and on and on - no two exactly the same if you set them side by side, yet all making up a rather lovely and interesting Basket of Eggs.....

do any of us fit here??? where else would we go TO fit in ;) ??? I notice you included Kosher and non-Kosher eggs in that Basket. ;)

[Henaynei]

I notice you included Kosher and non-Kosher eggs in that Basket. ;)just trying to give an accurate pic of what's often here ;)