Burying those who have passed

[Kris10leigh]

I'm curious as to how Messianics typically bury their dead. I don't know if it's still true, but I had read once that Jews bury their dead in wooden boxes. Ever since I read that I have wanted to be either be buried in a wooden box or cremated. I want as little money spent on my burial as possible and I want to return to the earth from which I was created as easily as possible.

So I am curious. I hope this isn't too morbid. I've put a lot of thought into this hoping my family will have the courage to follow my wishes. My grandmother was recently buried in a mausoleum and I really don't want that. I've spent most of my life trying to take up as little space in this world as possible and I don't want to take up any space in death.

[johnd]

There are traditions, of course. But oxidation eventually happens to both the rotting and the burning (buried or cremated). And it's up to the ability of God to sort out the dust of the earth in our resurrection. God can unscramble eggs.

[ChavaK]

I don't know if it's still true, but I had read once that Jews bury their dead in wooden boxes.
Yes, it is still true. We are buried in plain wooden caskets.


Ever since I read that I have wanted to be either be buried in a wooden box or cremated.
I don't know about messianics, but cremation is against
Jewish law.

[ChavaK]

Here is a link that will give you a brief over view of burial rituals.
I work with our local chevra kadisha, and we do not use a mikveh
but buckets of water to wash the meis (body). Otherwise the
routine we use is the same.
I asked the same question you asked on another messianic forum,
and it seems there are no set rules for burial.
http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2006/03/07/preparing-for-jewish-burial-the-7th-of-adar/

[HadassahSukkot]

As far as I know there are no set standards within the Messianic community -- yet.

That's mostly due to there being no centralized governing body and there being about 5-6 "umbrella groups" of Messianc communities as well as several other splinter groups.

Folks that lean more conservative to orthodox are apt to bury traditionally. No embalming, wooden casket with hole in it that allows for decay, no autopsies...

Other folks are about like it is in the church... everything's ok so long as you bury the body or it is put out to sea.

[Henaynei]

personally:

buried within 24 hours if at all possible

closed casket, no viewing

plain unvarnished, unadorned, padded or decorated wooden box

since it is unlikely I will be Jewish by then it will be up to my husband, should I predecease him, to determine what, if any, other practices of Judaism in which he would find comfort.....

not not not cremated!

[Lulav]

Yes, it is still true. We are buried in plain wooden caskets.

I don't know about messianics, but cremation is against
Jewish law.:thumbsup:

As far as I know there are no set standards within the Messianic community -- yet.

That's mostly due to there being no centralized governing body and there being about 5-6 "umbrella groups" of Messianc communities as well as several other splinter groups.

Folks that lean more conservative to orthodox are apt to bury traditionally. No embalming, wooden casket with hole in it that allows for decay, no autopsies...

Other folks are about like it is in the church... everything's ok so long as you bury the body or it is put out to sea. That is because there is so much Christian understanding infiltrating the congregations. My experience is that we keep the traditions, and buried in a wooden box, asap, in a Jewish cemetery and sit sheva.

Cremation is not allowed as it is a pagan practice.

[Kris10leigh]

I don't want to be cremated for religious reasons but for practical reasons. I don't want to take up space. I want to return to the earth as quickly as possible and I don't want a lot of money spent on me.

[Texasbluebonnet]

I'm pretty much in agreement with the others. Except, I don't personally don't see what would be wrong with a casket as long as it's not too expensive. On the one hand, I don't really care. It's not I'll know what kind casket/coffin or whatever I'll be put in. Also, I'm totally against cremation too.

[Henaynei]

re: cremation
one need not worry about taking up space -- logically, if dead bodies consumed space forever there'd be no room left on this earth for the living to stand, much less live today ;) - ecologically all the value of decomposition is lost to the eco system when one is cremated

re: casket
the issue is the delibrate recognition that death and the Judge are the great equalizers of all men - and that it is brotherly love and humility to be burried in the same "quality" of casket whether rich or poor ....

[Kris10leigh]

re: casket
the issue is the delibrate recognition that death and the Judge are the great equalizers of all men - and that it is brotherly love and humility to be burried in the same "quality" of casket whether rich or poor ....

That's a nice way of looking at it. Yes, no pomp and circumstance, just bury me in a wooden box, even if I die a billionaire.

Texasbluebonnet, in my opionion, there is nothing wrong with a casket of any kind. I think I am just jaded because my family has been instructed by my MIL that she is to be buried in the finest, most expensive casket made and we have been instructed that we WILL be crying at her funeral. :help: This all came about because she was angry with all of us and the way we each responded in our way at a funeral we all attended. Apparently we didn't "do it right."

So anyway...I simply want no fuss.

[HadassahSukkot]

:D that comment sounds like one of my relations!

Honestly, there are pine boxes that are generally reserved for the poorest of the poor that run at only a few hundred $ (as in bury today and no wake) at most funeral homes.. and then there are the higher quality wooden ones you can use for a wake (and have closed or open) and then use for burial..

Most caskets you'll run into are steel or aluminum based and will run from 5,000 on up.

Depending on your state, you'll need a concrete vault as well (and if you're Jewish or Muslim, usually you'll have it turned upside down and inserted AFTER the casket goes in, rather than before).. I forget how much those run, but I think they start at 500$ usually.

Cremations tend to be expensive right up there with the more higher end caskets and vaults.. mostly because of what is involved, and then the fact you have to pick an urn to put the ashes in afterwards. IMHO, it's just really disrespectful to the body, not to mention what to does to the environment just to cremate someone. (I think it's way worse than embalming...as far as what all has to be done to prep and carry it out -- jmho)

It costs nothing to go and ask for prices and talk with a funeral director if you really wanted to plan ahead (And even pay ahead)...

Please don't ask me how I know... ;)

[judahsgem]

I had never heard how orthidox bury their dead before, but I find from reading that article, to be very respectful and caring. The idea of a pine box does not bother me a bit. I honestly don't care what I'm buried in, since I won't be here. I don't wish to be cremated though; never have.
I did see, recently, on tv, some place that recently opened in PA, that buries anyone who wishes, in simple pine boxes, out in the woods. It's like a nature preserve and anyone can reserve a spot on it, to be buried in an unmarked or marked (w/small headstone) grave. It sounded kinda nice to me, as I'm one of those gals that likes to spend time out in nature,admiring God's creation.

[Henaynei]

re: incineration (aka cremation) - the vast majority of the ashes that are presented to the family are NOT the ashes of the deceased.... what is actually left of the human body after cremation is actually barely a cup of ashes ... in order to make the volume that which is emotionally satisfying to the public the dead are actually cremated in a "casket" so that there are enough ashes to fill an urn ... also the impact on the environment of the energy to heat the oven enough to incinerate the body and the release of that heat and volatilized byproducts of the incineration into the atmosphere are much more negative environmentally than a simple burial ....

[Texasbluebonnet]

That's a nice way of looking at it. Yes, no pomp and circumstance, just bury me in a wooden box, even if I die a billionaire.

Texasbluebonnet, in my opionion, there is nothing wrong with a casket of any kind. I think I am just jaded because my family has been instructed by my MIL that she is to be buried in the finest, most expensive casket made and we have been instructed that we WILL be crying at her funeral. :help: This all came about because she was angry with all of us and the way we each responded in our way at a funeral we all attended. Apparently we didn't "do it right."

So anyway...I simply want no fuss.


Oh, I totally understand that. I've heard similiar sentiments, and it's always sat wrong with me. I can see why you'd feel that way. My grandmother has always said, that she only wants a graveside service, and she didn't want any flowers, or anyone to be upset or cry. Kinda the opposite to your relative. I always thought it sounded strange. But not after hearing your story. I wouldn't want anyone to cry like that. I care about my friends and family too much.

re: incineration (aka cremation) - the vast majority of the ashes that are presented to the family are NOT the ashes of the deceased.... what is actually left of the human body after cremation is actually barely a cup of ashes ... in order to make the volume that which is emotionally satisfying to the public the dead are actually cremated in a "casket" so that there are enough ashes to fill an urn ... also the impact on the environment of the energy to heat the oven enough to incinerate the body and the release of that heat and volatilized byproducts of the incineration into the atmosphere are much more negative environmentally than a simple burial ....

Oh wow. That's scary. And creepy. No, I've never been a fan of cremation. For one thing, I hate fire. I know that's beside the point, but I'm not a fan of it. And I believe that it is very disrespctful to the body. Plus, that's probably what happened to my sister, or at least something similar and so it's not a pleasant choice for me. It's treating the body like it has no value. To me, anyway. Also, I didn't even think about the enviromental consequences. That's something else to consider too.

Hey, I don't want to derail this thread or anything, but I'm curious what your thoughts are on being burried at sea? J.W.